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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 11/22/2012 12:56:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 12:59:20 PM EST by widerstehe]
Got an email. Never gave it much thought before. Good idea? Perhaps. Good to get through NRA? Anyone have experience in this?

ETA: Link Here


Looks like it's a rider to another insurance plan they want to sell you.... getting expensive already! Take a look anyway, tell me what you think.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 1:07:55 PM EST
Awaiting ARF legal team to weigh in
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 1:18:01 PM EST
Got the same email. This seems like a good idea. What's the catch?


NRA Has You Covered.

The NRA Endorsed Insurance Program offers Self-Defense insurance designed to protect NRA members who need extra coverage not found in most homeowners' policies.
Coverage starts at only $165 annually.
What's Covered?
• Criminal and civil defense costs
• Civil suit defense
• Criminal Defense Reimbursement
Purchasing this coverage is easy! Simply visit www.selfdefenseinsurance.com and select the option to purchase coverage on the right.


Link Posted: 11/22/2012 1:19:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By 220ST:
Got the same email. This seems like a good idea. What's the catch?


NRA Has You Covered.

The NRA Endorsed Insurance Program offers Self-Defense insurance designed to protect NRA members who need extra coverage not found in most homeowners' policies.
Coverage starts at only $165 annually.
What's Covered?
• Criminal and civil defense costs
• Civil suit defense
• Criminal Defense Reimbursement
Purchasing this coverage is easy! Simply visit www.selfdefenseinsurance.com and select the option to purchase coverage on the right.




HHHHMMMMMM
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 1:21:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 1:45:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 1:49:21 PM EST by widerstehe]
Looking at it further, it's $165 (plus administrative costs of $15) for only $100,000 of coverage.

$250,000 of coverage is $254 + $15.

Still though, seems like one of those things that you'd really wish you had if you needed it.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 1:46:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By ZW17:


Joe Schmo goes to work and spends time with family... Most likely will never need this service.

$165/yr seems pretty expensive considering my odds.


If your unlucky enough to be targeted by dirtbags. Which happens all the time. The legal cost can run hundreds of thousands of dollars. So to me this makes sense.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 1:50:20 PM EST
I just hope this does not become a requirement one day to have a permit
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 1:52:15 PM EST
Depends on if you have to use one of their attorneys or if you can pick your own.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 2:22:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 2:26:15 PM EST
Originally Posted By soct:
Originally Posted By ZW17:


Joe Schmo goes to work and spends time with family... Most likely will never need this service.

$165/yr seems pretty expensive considering my odds.


If your unlucky enough to be targeted by dirtbags. Which happens all the time. The legal cost can run hundreds of thousands of dollars. So to me this makes sense.


there are insurance companies who offer this type of insurance as well.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 2:36:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By LightningII:
Originally Posted By soct:
Originally Posted By ZW17:


Joe Schmo goes to work and spends time with family... Most likely will never need this service.

$165/yr seems pretty expensive considering my odds.


If your unlucky enough to be targeted by dirtbags. Which happens all the time. The legal cost can run hundreds of thousands of dollars. So to me this makes sense.


there are insurance companies who offer this type of insurance as well.


Yep.

I pay about $5.00 a month for a plan that covers me only until the DA files charges. Pays my lawyer during the investigative phase but once charges are filed coverage stops.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 2:49:03 PM EST
Just from a cursory read . . .

The policy says you will be reimbursed your criminal legal expenses only upon an acquittal, a nolle, a no bill, etc.

If the legal system rolls over you, no money for you.

On the civil side it appears that the underwriters will defend you, investigate and negotiate settlement. A criminal conviction resulting from the same circumstance terminates their obligations.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 3:26:36 PM EST
Join Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network

Massad Ayoob and Marty Hayes are the best in the biz when it comes to this sorta thing.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 3:30:09 PM EST
Often a personal Umbrella will suplement your defence in a civil matter as well.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 3:34:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By soct:
Originally Posted By ZW17:


Joe Schmo goes to work and spends time with family... Most likely will never need this service.

$165/yr seems pretty expensive considering my odds.


If your unlucky enough to be targeted by dirtbags. Which happens all the time. The legal cost can run hundreds of thousands of dollars. So to me this makes sense.


I live in a castle doctrine state. You cannot sue me if the shooting is found to be justified.

I have never know anyone in my 35yrs of life to be 'targeted' by dirt bags.



There is a member here who has a thread going of when him and a friend were targeted and had to shoot the bad guy. Bad guy was recently sentenced.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 3:36:58 PM EST
NRA endorses several good policies. This is not one of them unless you have the $100,000 to spend on a dream team defense in the first place. Insurance is to pay losses you cannot pay for.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 3:57:19 PM EST
Marxist media will call this a license to kill, and claim anyone who gets the insurance must be looking for trouble.

Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:04:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 4:05:03 PM EST by The_Reaper]
I have the higher policy on my wife, mother, and myself.

It is like any other insurance.
I hope I never need it.

Edit: We signed up for it more than a year ago.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:06:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 5:33:50 PM EST by dbrowne1]
Originally Posted By ZW17:

I live in a castle doctrine state. You cannot sue me if the shooting is found to be justified.





Yes I can. It's simple. I type up a complaint, pay the filing and service fee, and VOILA, you're sued. All of these laws that people think keep them from getting sued, don't. It's that simple. It may help you win the case, it may shorten the litigation, but if someone wants to sue you, they will.

Anyhoo, the NRA-endorsed policy is underwritten by Lloyds and isn't bad. Some things to know about it:

1. Coverage is only for lawfully possessed firearms. So if you're carrying dirty somewhere, even if you're justified, then no coverage.
2. Coverage is only for firearms. If you use a knife or a golf club in justifiable self-defense, you're out of luck.
3. Insurers cannot indemnify people for crimes, so the criminal defense portion only pays you back after the fact if you're acquitted or dismissed.
4. The real value in this is policy is that it pays your defense legal costs on the civil side. The indemnity limits are too low, nobody who gets shot is only suing for $100K or $250K. But cost of defense can be $100K or more, so that's where the value is for you.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:07:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 4:25:05 PM EST by dbrowne1]
Originally Posted By JoshAR:
Often a personal Umbrella will suplement your defence in a civil matter as well.


Not for intentional acts. And a self-defense shooting is an intentional act. If there is a homeowners liability or umbrella that covers an intentional justified shooting, I've never heard of it.

ETA: I should add that a plaintiff's lawyer will often deliberately accuse you of negligence (as opposed to an intentional tort) in order to trigger insurance. You may or may not get a reservation of rights defense, where they defend you but may not pay any judgment. But I would not count on any of this.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:08:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By MatthewCourtney:
NRA endorses several good policies. This is not one of them unless you have the $100,000 to spend on a dream team defense in the first place. Insurance is to pay losses you cannot pay for.


Insurance pays for your defense team.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:12:51 PM EST
Damn....They sure do prey on the insecure. Fucking money grubbers.

I suspect in the ban states "carry insurance" will soon be another requirement before you can get a permit. Thanks NRA.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:15:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
Damn....They sure do prey on the insecure. Fucking money grubbers.

I suspect in the ban states "carry insurance" will soon be another requirement before you can get a permit. Thanks NRA.


Yeah, using a gun in self-defense carries no risk at all. What could possibly go wrong.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:25:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By EvanWilliams:
Awaiting ARF legal team to weigh in


There's Texas law shield too.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:29:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By centex_SR-15:
Originally Posted By EvanWilliams:
Awaiting ARF legal team to weigh in


There's Texas law shield too.


Sounds like pre-paid legal rather than insurance. Not necessarily better or worse, but a different concept.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:39:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
Originally Posted By MatthewCourtney:
NRA endorses several good policies. This is not one of them unless you have the $100,000 to spend on a dream team defense in the first place. Insurance is to pay losses you cannot pay for.


Insurance pays for your defense team.


No it does not. Not in criminal. You pay for your defense and if you win, you get reinbursed. If you cannot afford a criminal defense team, you get the public defender instead of a team of talented attorneys with skilled investigators. A decent policy should decrease the likelyhood of getting charged and convicted by helping you get top quality representation. This policy does not do that. It merely reduces the financial hit. If you lose because the public defender has no budget for investigators, forensic scientists, and expert witnesses, the policy is worthless.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 4:43:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 5:18:24 PM EST by dbrowne1]
Originally Posted By MatthewCourtney:
Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
Originally Posted By MatthewCourtney:
NRA endorses several good policies. This is not one of them unless you have the $100,000 to spend on a dream team defense in the first place. Insurance is to pay losses you cannot pay for.


Insurance pays for your defense team.


No it does not. Not in criminal. You pay for your defense and if you win, you get reinbursed. If you cannot afford a criminal defense team, you get the public defender instead of a team of talented attorneys with skilled investigators. A decent policy should decrease the likelyhood of getting charged and convicted by helping you get top quality representation. This policy does not do that. It merely reduces the financial hit. If you lose because the public defender has no budget for investigators, forensic scientists, and expert witnesses, the policy is worthless.


It pays for defense in the civil case.

I already explained why NO insurer is going to insure you (including defense up front) for criminal acts. The policy you're looking for doesn't exist and never will, as insuring against criminal acts has obvious public policy problems. The closest you'll get is some form of pre-paid legal. The only policies that MIGHT ever provide up front criminal defense would be some D&O liability policies, and possibly some professional liability policies (e.g., doctors) depending on the specifics. Even then, those carriers are going to resist it based on exclusions in the policy.

Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:20:48 PM EST
George Zimmerman approves this insurance.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:22:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By widerstehe:
Looking at it further, it's $165 (plus administrative costs of $15) for only $100,000 of coverage.

$250,000 of coverage is $254 + $15.

Still though, seems like one of those things that you'd really wish you had if you needed it.


If you're on the hook for a SD shooting $100k (or really even $250k) might not even get you through the trial.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:24:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/22/2012 5:27:29 PM EST by dbrowne1]
Originally Posted By FredMan:
Originally Posted By widerstehe:
Looking at it further, it's $165 (plus administrative costs of $15) for only $100,000 of coverage.

$250,000 of coverage is $254 + $15.

Still though, seems like one of those things that you'd really wish you had if you needed it.


If you're on the hook for a SD shooting $100k (or really even $250k) might not even get you through the trial.


Those are the indemnity limits. The limit of what they will pay toward a verdict or settlement to the plaintiff.

The insurer's duty to defend you (in the civil case) has no cap, hence my repeated statements that THIS is the real value in the policy. And realistically, in most liability policies.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:32:10 PM EST
Some great posts and good info.
Thanks
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:36:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By juan223:
Join Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network

Massad Ayoob and Marty Hayes are the best in the biz when it comes to this sorta thing.


I have never heard of this... Might need to look into it.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 5:42:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By juan223:
Join Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network

Massad Ayoob and Marty Hayes are the best in the biz when it comes to this sorta thing.


I have never heard of this... Might need to look into it.


It's more of a "support" and "referral" service. The financial support for defense costs is rather limited.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 6:06:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By dbrowne1:
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Originally Posted By juan223:
Join Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network

Massad Ayoob and Marty Hayes are the best in the biz when it comes to this sorta thing.


I have never heard of this... Might need to look into it.


It's more of a "support" and "referral" service. The financial support for defense costs is rather limited.


The real benefit is Mas & Marty assisting the defense, having a good attorney is one thing, having one that understands the nuts and bolts of arguing a self defense case is another matter all together.
Link Posted: 11/22/2012 8:14:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By widerstehe:
Got an email. Never gave it much thought before. Good idea? Perhaps. Good to get through NRA? Anyone have experience in this?

ETA: Link Here


Looks like it's a rider to another insurance plan they want to sell you.... getting expensive already! Take a look anyway, tell me what you think.


It comes out to about 50 cents a day for the $100,000 civil coverage. I pay alot more per day for a LDF for on the job incidents, which doesn't cover me off-duty. I'm thinking hard about this just for the piece of mind.

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