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Posted: 3/8/2006 10:06:37 AM EDT
NRA called no friend of hunters
Corvallis writer/outdoorsman Pat Wray says the group's policies hurt habitat and wildlife

March 06, 2006
BILL MONROE
The Oregonian

A Corvallis free-lance writer with a national reputation and a chukar-hunting book under his belt has fired a broadside at the National Rifle Association over its avowed defense of hunting.

The NRA's support is superficial and, ultimately, dangerous for hunting, says Pat Wray, a 57-year-old retired Marine helicopter pilot and NRA member for more than 20 years.

Wray says the NRA is selling hunting down the political river solely to bolster its advocacy for gun rights and the Second Amendment.

The issues, he says, go far beyond recent NRA clout that helped President Bush open millions of acres of roadless areas -- a move Wray says will only help corporate America at the cost of accelerating the loss of valuable wildlife habitat.

"The roadless issue is a perfect example, but not the only example," Wray said. "I want the NRA to stop pretending to support hunters and hunting. I'm tired of being used and I think a lot of other hunters are tired of being used as well."

Separating the NRA from hunters, however, may be about as easy as separating its members from their guns.

"We have four million members," said Andrew Arulanandam, an NRA spokesman in Washington, D.C. "It's our responsibility to represent the interests of those members, included among which are a large number of hunters."

Dawson Hobbs, the NRA's manager of hunting policy, was more direct.

"It does not serve the average hunter to have millions of acres of public land to be inaccessible or to have to quit hunting earlier because lands are too rugged to access," Hobbs wrote in an NRA response to a column Wray wrote for the Corvallis Gazette-Times Dec. 4, 2005. "Wray wants to ensure that the best hunting lands are accessible only to him and to those with means."

Wray's copywrited column, excerpted on this page with his permission, also was published in several other newspapers, including the Denver Post. Its subsequent appearance on the Internet spread the column across the nation, and Wray said he's had dozens of e-mailed responses, some taking him to task, but most supportive.

"Please don't make this out to be an anti-NRA effort," Wray said. "I believe strongly in its mission to protect gun rights.

"My hope is to convince the NRA to confine their efforts to advocacy of their Second Amendment rights.

"I want them to get out of the hunting realm. They're stuck in an impossible conflict of interest.

"The NRA has become dependent upon money coming in from people who are primarily hunters. But the NRA has not truly represented hunters or the future of hunting. It's kind of sold us out."

Hal Herring, a 41-year-old contributing editor for Field and Stream magazine based in eastern Montana, learned of the column from Tony Dean, a popular outdoor show host in South Dakota. Herring said he'll use some of Wray's points for an article he's working on about the future of wildlife habitat.

"It's a great story," he said. "I think a lot of outdoorsmen are wondering why the NRA had to comment on the roadless issue one way or the other."

Herring said Field and Stream hasn't yet decided whether or when to run his story.

"They're not afraid of the NRA; I think they're just waiting to see what happens," he said. "But it actually could help the NRA. If you expose their ills, it makes them stronger."

Arulanandam at the NRA wouldn't say how many of the NRA's four million paid members are from Oregon because it is against the association's policy to list membership by state.

Behind the scenes, though, Oregon wildlife managers have said the NRA's lobbying efforts with the Oregon Legislature are of great benefit to hunters in spite of the NRA's national effort to help open roadless areas.

"We work together closely on hunting related issues, from habitat to hunting rights," said Al Elkins, lobbyist for the 10,000-plus member Oregon Hunters Association based in Medford. "My members are their members and their members are mine."

Oregon Hunters Association state coordinator Duane Dungannon said it would be a mistake for the organization to abandon hunting.

"A lot of people don't understand their primary concern is the Second Amendment," Dungannon said. "Hunting is not in the Second Amendment . . . but hunters are a pretty good base, so they do have to look out for those folks."

The NRA, he said, contributed about $10,000 to fight the successful ballot measure that banned the use of dogs to hunt bear and cougar. But it didn't join a subsequent failed measure to overturn the ban.

"That kind of disappointed me," Dungannon said. "Sportsmen took it upon themselves. The NRA didn't really play; but again, it's not their whole gig. Firearms are under more fire than hunting is."

Hunting sure won't come under fire if places to hunt and game to hunt disappear, Wray contends.

He wants the NRA to work with politicians who support habitat instead of those more intent on extractive industries that stand to benefit most from "punching roads into roadless areas."

Wray knows his battle will be long and uphill.

"To a degree, it's a case of continuing to chip away at what is essentially a large rock," he said. "I just have to try to bring people's attention to it a little at a time; Over time, with other people's help, hunters will begin to understand the way they're being misled and misused. We will begin to develop a groundswell, and then we'll hit a critical mass."

Despite Hobbs' official NRA reply -- he wouldn't answer a request for comment left on his voice mail -- and sharp words about Wray, Arulanandam said the organization isn't fretful.

"The NRA is 135 years old," he said. "The contention of one individual for all intents and purposes is not going to change the course of our direction."

We'll see, Wray said.

"Given enough time, even a canoe can turn an aircraft carrier."

Bill Monroe: 503-221-8231; email billmonroe@news.oregonian.com


www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/sports/1141460763312860.xml&coll=7
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:09:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 10:09:54 AM EDT by NYPatriot]

Wray says the NRA is selling hunting down the political river solely to bolster its advocacy for gun rights and the Second Amendment.



Talk about ass backwards thinking!
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:10:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:

Wray says the NRA is selling hunting down the political river solely to bolster its advocacy for gun rights and the Second Amendment.



Talk about ass backward thinking!



And that is Wray's whole problem. He is an Elmer Fudd.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:12:17 AM EDT
Dear Pat Wray:

Fuck you.


Sincerely yours,
95th Foot
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:16:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 95thFoot:
Dear Pat Wray:

Fuck you.


Sincerely yours,
95th Foot



+1 This Wray fellow is just begging for an ARFCOM fire mission.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:16:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 10:17:15 AM EDT by macman37]
So wait... The organization popularly smeared by our 2/A advocates as being ONLY a hunter-friendly organization is now also no friend of hunters?

We truly are our own worst enemy.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:17:04 AM EDT

NRA called no friend of hunters



And hunters are generally no friend of the 2nd Amendment.

That's just like that group - yeah, even if the 2nd is gone, I'll still have my purty over/under...
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:18:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:18:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
So wait... The organization popularly smeared by our 2/A advocates as being ONLY a hunter-friendly organization is now also no friend of hunters?

We truly are our own worst enemy.



You nailed it!!
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:19:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hipster:

Originally Posted By macman37:
So wait... The organization popularly smeared by our 2/A advocates as being ONLY a hunter-friendly organization is now also no friend of hunters?

We truly are our own worst enemy.



You nailed it!!



+1
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:20:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 10:20:56 AM EDT by PAEBR332]
I also see Tony Dean's name pop up in the article. He is an asshat of the first order. He hates the NRA, Duck Unlimited, and basically any organization that does not bend to his every bloviation.

Dean once wrote an article about a hunting trip he took in Texas. His multi-millionaire host (whom he would not name) had, he claims, an underground garage/hunting lodge in the middle of his rice fields near Katy, TX. Said secret lair was filled with works of art, expensive furniture, etc. Tony was never able to explain how all this underground stuff was able to remain dry WHEN THEY FLOOD THE RICE PADDY EACH YEAR. Several waterfowlers I know from the Katy area got a huge kick out of the whole story. They would write to Tony, and he would always claim he could not tell them any more details without betraying the trust of his hunting buddy benefactor.

Apparently idiots, like waterfowl, flock together.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:21:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 10:23:20 AM EDT by hk940]

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:

NRA called no friend of hunters



And hunters are generally no friend of the 2nd Amendment.

That's just like that group - yeah, even if the 2nd is gone, I'll still have my purty over/under...



so true

ed to say you don't need a TWO barrel assault shotgun to spray buckshot and blast a deer to hell.

Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:24:35 AM EDT
divide and concur
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:27:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 10:31:01 AM EDT by warlord]
There people who claim they are hunters and support the 2nd Amend for duck hunting etc, but in actuality they are a front for the anti-gunners. And of course the mainstream news media just eat this stuff up.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:27:25 AM EDT
What an idiot, he doesn't even have a basic understanding of the NRA or the second admendment purpose and how that effects hunting.

Basic

NRA pro gun + Hunters use gun = Hunters are pro NRA
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:29:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 10:30:36 AM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:

NRA called no friend of hunters



And hunters are generally no friend of the 2nd Amendment.

That's just like that group - yeah, even if the 2nd is gone, I'll still have my purty over/under...



Some hunters not most… the hunting elites who can afford guided hunts or backwoods access at $1000 a day or get it gratis as a lot of writers do.

There are a strain of hunting and fishing writers today that have become completely of touch with normal hunters. If they get their way most of the land in this country will become off limits to the average hunter either due to regulation or expense due to regulation. They intend to turn national land in to land that can only be accessed by the right crowd.

Some of the crap you read in Field and Stream today is just plain elitist garbage.

Therse people have total contempt for the 2nd Amendment.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:31:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:

Wray says the NRA is selling hunting down the political river solely to bolster its advocacy for gun rights and the Second Amendment.



Talk about ass backwards thinking!



No shit.
It is a group dedicated to the preservation of the RKBA.
What does hunting have to do with any of this.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:32:38 AM EDT
Like the John Kerrys and Bill Clintons of this world, the 2nd Amend protects the right of hunters to hunt.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:40:50 AM EDT
Artiles like this make me glad I recently joined the NRA. Maybe I should print out this article and send them a donation telling them good job and keep it up!
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:41:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
So wait... The organization popularly smeared by our 2/A advocates as being ONLY a hunter-friendly organization is now also no friend of hunters?

We truly are our own worst enemy.



That was the first thing to come to my mind as well.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:47:18 AM EDT
Maybe I should buy a second life membership as a "fuck you" to Pat Wray.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 10:51:36 AM EDT
His article was carried/ initially listed by "writers on the range", a division of http://www.hcn.org/opinion.jsp
please don't make hot-
high country news- where they make the amazing link that brokeback mountain somehow related to real life, and was not a fantasy movie like crouching tiger/ hidden dragon. that is in the article by the "gay bowhunter"

Still, Pat Wray aparantly served in vietnam, and as such has my respect for that.

free country
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:06:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
So wait... The organization popularly smeared by our 2/A advocates as being ONLY a hunter-friendly organization is now also no friend of hunters?

We truly are our own worst enemy.



1. Let's see, the NRA pisses off hunters per this clown.

2. NRA pisses off ARFCOMMERS because it's all about hunting & no one cares about ARs.

Ergo, The NRA must be doing something right!

Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:08:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By guns762:
divide and concur



Conquer?
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:09:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 11:09:59 AM EDT by callgood]
............He wants the NRA to work with politicians who support habitat instead of those more intent on extractive industries that stand to benefit most from "punching roads into roadless areas."............

He's SOL with Bush- no Teddy Roosevelt he. And with the DemTards poised to resume their mischief (bad vibes re '06 midterm- hope I'm wrong) He's between a rock and a hard place.

Oh yeah, I'm an NRA member.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:10:58 AM EDT
Corvallias, pft.

I give a fuck who you are, if you're from corvallis the burden of proof is on YOU to PROVE you are an outdoorsman.

That's one of the most liberal cities on this planet.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:13:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:

Wray says the NRA is selling hunting down the political river solely to bolster its advocacy for gun rights and the Second Amendment.



Talk about ass backward thinking!



And that is Wray's whole problem. He is an Elmer Fudd.




Fudd? He is a fucking retard, should get in bed with Murtha... "I am a Marine, therefore I know what is good for everybody with a gun"

The second anyone says this, rewrite the sentance thusly: "I am a Marine LIBERAL, therefore I know what is good for everybody with a gun"
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:25:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:30:09 AM EDT
Soros money is behind all this.....
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:37:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:<snip>


I see your point....BUT
How many of us hunt?
Quite a few.
How many of us have ever said

"AR15 - why do ya need one of them thar assault riffles?"
"How are ya sposed ta hunt with that AK47?"
"All that weapon is for is killing pople!"
"It's yer fault that they're trying ta take ouhr gunnns away!"

You see the point?
Hunters are more than willing to sell us out.
They are perfectly content with their bolt actions and over unders.
It happened in England, it happened in Austraila, and it will happen here.
Divide and conquer.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:40:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By hk940:

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:

NRA called no friend of hunters



And hunters are generally no friend of the 2nd Amendment.

That's just like that group - yeah, even if the 2nd is gone, I'll still have my purty over/under...



so true

ed to say you don't need a TWO barrel assault shotgun to spray buckshot and blast a deer to hell.




The "hunters don't support the Second Amendment" stereotype is just that--a silly stereotype. I am a hunter. Most everyone I associate with are hunters--and we ALL are absolutists when it comes to the Second. Of COURSE there are hunters who are ignorant on the subject and will say, "Why do you NEED an "assault rifle?"" That doesn't mean the majority of hunters are that stupid. The media will always trot out whichever drooling idiot says what they want portrayed.

There are about 16 million hunters and 80 million gun owners. I dare say the NRA would be a shadow of its present self without the hunters who are members. Does anyone happen to know the subscription rates for American Hunter vs. American Rifleman? I bet that would be a telling statistic.

It's very sad the way gun owners in general insist upon eating our own.



That's true to some extent but stereotypes have a kernel of truth to them. I have more hunting guys question my ownership of and need for "those" guns than I have other target shooters or fun shooters. I agree the press puffs those guys up, but it's hard to dismiss which group keeps sticking it's nose in my business at the range and giving me dirty looks as I set up.

I don't say that to divide or eat my own. I just want to be left alone with what I enjoy and not have a guy wearing the "RedHead" catalog telling me that "I" give "them" a bad image. I'd fight to the end to see that they had the same right.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:42:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:51:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

The "hunters don't support the Second Amendment" stereotype is just that--a silly stereotype. I am a hunter. Most everyone I associate with are hunters--and we ALL are absolutists when it comes to the Second. Of COURSE there are hunters who are ignorant on the subject and will say, "Why do you NEED an "assault rifle?"" That doesn't mean the majority of hunters are that stupid. The media will always trot out whichever drooling idiot says what they want portrayed.

It's very sad the way gun owners in general insist upon eating our own.



TBK1 -

I find it sad that we as gunowners and even conservatives/constitutionalists tend to eat our own.

You have posted your point of view towards the hunters being anti-2nd as a silly stereotype - I'm glad it is that way where you are. What I posted is what I have seen in the club where I am a member. Don't get me wrong, it's a great club, but you don't trot out your EBR when deer season is about to start unless you enjoy feeling like a bastard at the family reunion. Now, I am not anti-hunter (well, except that canned crap).

I have family who hunt. One of them directly commented that an AR-15 is "a weapon of war." After explaining to him that ever type of firearm action (lever, bolt, etc.) had been a weapon of war, he eased up and now actually likes them.

So while the disdain is there for surplus or military style arms, there is also the idea that somehow they are above the ugliness associated with weapons designed "only to kill people." They are secure in their notion that they are simply following tradition in the U.S. After all, their guns were only designed to hunt with.

So they separate themselves from EBR owners, rather than standing shoulder to shoulder. They think no one will come for their stuff. It is beautiful, traditional, and never designed to kill someone, so go after the crazies with the EBRs.

I am certainly not trying to flame here. This has just been my experience.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 11:53:31 AM EDT
Damn Boys, ease up on the hunters. I am a hunter and I hunt a lot,. I grew up hunting and it has been a major part of my life for the last 25 years. I am also an NRA member and when they asked me which magazine I wanted with my membership it was Americas First Freedom and has been for the last 8 years. I did not join the NRA to support my right to HUNT. I joined to preserve my RKBA. I enjoy my AR-15 and my 1911 as much as my shotguns or deer rifle. Please don't stereotype. I really enjoy coming on this board to hear what ya'll have to say each day, but I don't like the way you are putting me down.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:01:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:01:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:<snip>


I see your point....BUT
How many of us hunt?
Quite a few.
How many of us have ever said

"AR15 - why do ya need one of them thar assault riffles?"
"How are ya sposed ta hunt with that AK47?"
"All that weapon is for is killing pople!"
"It's yer fault that they're trying ta take ouhr gunnns away!"

You see the point?
Hunters are more than willing to sell us out.
They are perfectly content with their bolt actions and over unders.
It happened in England, it happened in Austraila, and it will happen here.
Divide and conquer.



I see the point. Where we differ is in the numbers. I know dozens of hunters and ONE who says that--old timer, etc. You (and others) leave me with the impression you think MOST hunters are of that mindset. As I said, I AM a hunter and I KNOW dozens of hunters and damned near NONE are that way. My point is simply that it's a stereotype--not universally true, or even close to it.



I agree, but the circles of hunters I know also own evil rifles. That's who I hang out with. Get into a wider group and the attitude shows up more. Why would it not. They watch Ed Bradley and CNN show those evil bullet hoses breaking cinder blocks on full auto. They hear a lot more of that side than ours I think.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:05:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:06:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
So wait... The organization popularly smeared by our 2/A advocates as being ONLY a hunter-friendly organization is now also no friend of hunters?

We truly are our own worst enemy.




Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:

NRA called no friend of hunters



And hunters are generally no friend of the 2nd Amendment.

That's just like that group - yeah, even if the 2nd is gone, I'll still have my purty over/under...




The above quotes speak for themselves.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:09:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:

Wray says the NRA is selling hunting down the political river solely to bolster its advocacy for gun rights and the Second Amendment.



Talk about ass backward thinking!



And that is Wray's whole problem. He is an Elmer Fudd.



Yep, he is one of those clowns that has outright said that EBRs should be banned as long as they leave their hunting rifles (soon to be duped "super duper sniper rifle that can shoot down a satellite) and shotguns (soon to be dubbed "evil killing machines capable of killing 10 people with one shot) alone.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:10:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

I guess it is up to us to educate those who lack our sparkling wit, charming personality, dashing good looks and brilliant intellect. Someone has to do it.



You made me think a bit with this comment. From now on, whenever I get "the look" from the hunt only bunch, I will immediately try this - "You know, I couldn't help but notice you were looking at my rifle. Would you like to shoot it?" Maybe someone will take me up on it and find out what a great rifle an EBR can be.

Maybe we can all try that - fight the divide and conquer!
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:11:23 PM EDT
Everyone copy that artical and send it to the NRA with a please respond in your freedom magazine next month, countering this persons point of view towards the NRA.

That'll fix his widdle wed wagon.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:12:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:

NRA called no friend of hunters



And hunters are generally no friend of the 2nd Amendment.

That's just like that group - yeah, even if the 2nd is gone, I'll still have my purty over/under...



Some hunters not most… the hunting elites who can afford guided hunts or backwoods access at $1000 a day or get it gratis as a lot of writers do.

There are a strain of hunting and fishing writers today that have become completely of touch with normal hunters. If they get their way most of the land in this country will become off limits to the average hunter either due to regulation or expense due to regulation. They intend to turn national land in to land that can only be accessed by the right crowd.

Some of the crap you read in Field and Stream today is just plain elitist garbage.

Therse people have total contempt for the 2nd Amendment.



Mike, I normally agree with you, but MOST "hunter-only" types could not care less about our EBRs and would gladly let them be banned.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:14:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 12:17:01 PM EDT by Q3131A]

Originally Posted By guns762:
divide and concur



From within... What the hell is that?

Of course the media will print his crap from coast to coast. Any split in the NRA is viewed with glee by the media.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:20:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:41:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By Grunteled:
I agree, but the circles of hunters I know also own evil rifles. That's who I hang out with. Get into a wider group and the attitude shows up more. Why would it not. They watch Ed Bradley and CNN show those evil bullet hoses breaking cinder blocks on full auto. They hear a lot more of that side than ours I think.



See my post just above yours. Welcome to the club.



Thanks! I'm new to it.... some stupid Fudd talked me into trying it and now I think I'm hooked. Any excuse to get out in the woods and carry my FAL too is a good one.

Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:44:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

I guess it is up to us to educate those who lack our sparkling wit, charming personality, dashing good looks and brilliant intellect. Someone has to do it.



You made me think a bit with this comment. From now on, whenever I get "the look" from the hunt only bunch, I will immediately try this - "You know, I couldn't help but notice you were looking at my rifle. Would you like to shoot it?" Maybe someone will take me up on it and find out what a great rifle an EBR can be.

Maybe we can all try that - fight the divide and conquer!



I concur!

Remember--ammo is cheap, allies are PRICELESS!!



+1

Being friendly and letting folks shoot our EBR is what will bring them over. I do it every time I can.


Link Posted: 3/8/2006 1:11:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By entropy:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

I guess it is up to us to educate those who lack our sparkling wit, charming personality, dashing good looks and brilliant intellect. Someone has to do it.



You made me think a bit with this comment. From now on, whenever I get "the look" from the hunt only bunch, I will immediately try this - "You know, I couldn't help but notice you were looking at my rifle. Would you like to shoot it?" Maybe someone will take me up on it and find out what a great rifle an EBR can be.

Maybe we can all try that - fight the divide and conquer!



I concur!

Remember--ammo is cheap, allies are PRICELESS!!



+1

Being friendly and letting folks shoot our EBR is what will bring them over. I do it every time I can.





I have tried that exactly 6 times. 4 of those times, I was basically told to fuck off, they wanted knowing to do with that evil gun.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 1:27:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

I have tried that exactly 6 times. 4 of those times, I was basically told to fuck off, they wanted knowing to do with that evil gun.



Thank you for your attempts to enlighten the unenlightened. And thanks for putting up with four ignorant people while you possibly made two converts.

You may have actually had an effect on the four black-gun-hating bigots also. They probably expected you to be a rude moron. By acting in a friendly manner, you went against their preconceived image of a black gun owner. They might still think ARs are evil but you showed them that we're nice people. That's a tiny crack in their wall of prejudice.

Job well done!!
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 1:35:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By TodaysTomSawyer:

NRA called no friend of hunters



And hunters are generally no friend of the 2nd Amendment.

That's just like that group - yeah, even if the 2nd is gone, I'll still have my purty over/under...



Some hunters not most… the hunting elites who can afford guided hunts or backwoods access at $1000 a day or get it gratis as a lot of writers do.

There are a strain of hunting and fishing writers today that have become completely of touch with normal hunters. If they get their way most of the land in this country will become off limits to the average hunter either due to regulation or expense due to regulation. They intend to turn national land in to land that can only be accessed by the right crowd.

Some of the crap you read in Field and Stream today is just plain elitist garbage.

Therse people have total contempt for the 2nd Amendment.



Mike, I normally agree with you, but MOST "hunter-only" types could not care less about our EBRs and would gladly let them be banned.



Most hunters around here know better.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 1:42:10 PM EDT

..........The issues, he says, go far beyond recent NRA clout that helped President Bush open millions of acres of roadless areas -- a move Wray says will only help corporate America at the cost of accelerating the loss of valuable wildlife habitat.... This guy is assuming that logging will cause a loss of wildlife habitat. In fact it will, for certain critters but it will improve habitat for other species that prefer young, regenerating forests. This guy also assumes that trees will live forever- they don't. They fall over and die, burn in fires or get broken up by ice. This guy is nothing but a gun-grabbing greenpeacer.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 2:09:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
..........The issues, he says, go far beyond recent NRA clout that helped President Bush open millions of acres of roadless areas -- a move Wray says will only help corporate America at the cost of accelerating the loss of valuable wildlife habitat.... This guy is assuming that logging will cause a loss of wildlife habitat. In fact it will, for certain critters but it will improve habitat for other species that prefer young, regenerating forests. This guy also assumes that trees will live forever- they don't. They fall over and die, burn in fires or get broken up by ice. This guy is nothing but a gun-grabbing greenpeacer.



Yep
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