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Posted: 9/1/2005 4:37:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 4:38:17 AM EDT by TacticalStrat]

Give us your guns and be defenseless. OH SURE!!!!


"Police officers were asking residents to give up any firearms before they evacuated neighborhoods because police desperately needed the firepower"



New Orleans Cops Ordered to Stop Looters

Thursday September 1, 2005 5:01 AM


AP Photo LADM112

By KEVIN McGILL

Associated Press Writer

NEW ORLEANS (AP) - Mayor Ray Nagin ordered 1,500 police officers to leave their search-and-rescue mission Wednesday night and return to the streets to stop looting that has turned increasingly hostile as the city plunges deeper into chaos.

``They are starting to get closer to heavily populated areas - hotels, hospitals, and we're going to stop it right now,'' Nagin said in a statement to The Associated Press.

The number of officers called off the search-and-rescue mission amounts to virtually the entire police force in New Orleans.

Amid the turmoil Wednesday, thieves commandeered a forklift and used it to push up the storm shutters and break the glass of a pharmacy. The crowd stormed the store, carrying out so much ice, water and food that it dropped from their arms as they ran. The street was littered with packages of ramen noodles and other items.

Looters also chased down a police truck full of food. The New Orleans police chief ran off looters while city officials themselves were commandeering equipment from a looted Office Depot. During a state of emergency, authorities have broad powers to take private supplies and buildings for their use.

Managers at a nursing home were prepared to cope with the power outages and had enough food for days, but then the looting began. The home's bus driver was forced to surrender the vehicle to carjackers.

Bands of people drove by the nursing home, shouting to residents, ``Get out!'' Eighty residents, most of them in wheelchairs, were being evacuated to other nursing homes in the state.

``We had enough food for 10 days,'' said Peggy Hoffman, the home's executive director. ``Now we'll have to equip our department heads with guns and teach them how to shoot.''

At one store, hordes of people from all ages, races and walks of life grabbed food and water. Some drove away with trunkloads of beer. At one point, two officers drew their guns on the looters, but the thieves left without incident.

One young man was seen wading through chest-deep floodwater, carrying a case of soda, after looting a grocery store.

Police officers were asking residents to give up any firearms before they evacuated neighborhoods because police desperately needed the firepower: Some officers who had been stranded on the roof of a hotel said they were being shot at overnight.

``It's really difficult because my opinion of the looting is it started with people running out of food, and you can't really argue with that too much,'' Nagin said. ``Then it escalated to this kind of mass chaos.''

Gov. Kathleen Blanco said she has asked the White House to send more people to help with evacuations and rescues, thereby freeing up National Guardsmen to stop looters.

Bob Mann, an aide to the governor, said dozens of law officers are being brought in from around the country and Canada to help stop the looting. Officials said they hope the 4,000 National Guard troops already in New Orleans, who have been engaged in search and rescue, will be available for police actions.

``We will restore law and order,'' an emotional Blanco said at a news conference. ``What angers me the most is that disasters like this often bring out the worst in people. I will not tolerate this kind of behavior.''

John Matessino, president of the Louisiana Hospital Association, said he had not heard of anyone breaking into the hospitals, but he added that thieves got into the parking garage at one hospital and were stealing car batteries and stereos.

New Orleans' homeland security chief, Terry Ebbert, said looters were breaking into stores all over town and stealing guns. He said there are gangs of armed men moving around the city. At one point, officers stranded on the roof of a hotel were fired at by criminals on the street.

Authorities said an officer was shot in the head and a looter was wounded in a shootout. The officer and looter were expected to survive.

^---

Associated Press Writer Robert Tanner contributed to this report.


Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:40:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:

``We had enough food for 10 days,'' said Peggy Hoffman, the home's executive director. ``Now we'll have to equip our department heads with guns and teach them how to shoot.''







It's so rare that you get to see the birth of a conservsative in the wild.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:45:40 AM EDT


It's so rare that you get to see the birth of a conservsative in the wild.


Oh so true.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:48:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BayEagle:

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:

``We had enough food for 10 days,'' said Peggy Hoffman, the home's executive director. ``Now we'll have to equip our department heads with guns and teach them how to shoot.''







It's so rare that you get to see the birth of a conservsative in the wild.



My how attitudes change so quickly, no??
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:49:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:53:57 AM EDT
Police don't have enough firearms? Shoot the police chief, oh thats right, you can't, you don't have many firearms?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:55:24 AM EDT
"Sorry,These are mine officer ."

Link Posted: 9/1/2005 4:59:24 AM EDT
What good are guns without ammo?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:00:25 AM EDT
I'm shipping all of my ammo and guns to the area!!
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:05:41 AM EDT
If I was down there, and was asked, I sure as hell wouldn't give the cops any of my guns.

a) If they feel they need them, them I probably need them as well. And my safety takes priority.
b) They have alternative sources. Or they could just go loot a gun store appropriate them from a store.
c) They should have had better planning.
d) besides, how much help is a .22 and a .38 going to help them?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:05:50 AM EDT
If this were in NC, my response:

"Chief, when you pre-sign and do not date, 6 form 4s and 2 form 1s (which the prick is presently giving me shit about...just one though), I'll be happy to help you out with these fine Hesse/Model1sales rifles. Of course, I'll even thrown in 10 USA brand 30 round mags for you. Ammo, sure....Bernaul or Wolff
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:06:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ikor:
Instead of equipping their cops with decent gear, NO has, for many years, spent money on "feel good" projects, along with hiring some of the worst possible candidates for the job. The entire force is certainly not corrupt, but enough are that the force has taken several...justifiable, I might add...black eyes because of it.

Somehow, even as a retired LEO, I just cannot find it in my heart to send them any of MY guns or ammo.



Amen brother, but the worst scenario for me -as an honest family man- would be having to give up my weapons, and only means of protection against the armed criminals running wild in such a lawless time.

This is the type of nightmare that we all plan and prepare for, but pray it never comes. My heart goes out to all the good people down there who are trapped in the 'kill zone,' many of them without a weapon.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:08:44 AM EDT
Evidently the New Orleans PD is one of these PC departments who believes sidearms are sufficient for their officers. I bet the officers wish they had some AR's right now.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:10:14 AM EDT
Instead of equipping their cops with decent gear, NO has, for many years, spent money on "feel good" projects, along with hiring some of the worst possible candidates for the job. The entire force is certainly not corrupt, but enough are that the force has taken several...justifiable, I might add...black eyes because of it.

Somehow, even as a retired LEO, I just cannot find it in my heart to send them any of MY guns or ammo.




Everyone in the LEO community knew that the NOLA Police force was one of the worst in the nation. Hell, were they not being run by the Feds? Ordinary people of the city, both good and bad, had no faith in them even during good times. How on earth would anyone expect them to perform well during a time like this? The Feds, and the State knew this. I can't for the life of me understand why a Military response was not planned for right away, just to keep civil order. If even a few looters were shot through the head early on, NOLA wouldn't be in this mess. It just goes to show you that the Government at all levels is impotent, and more concerned with PC, and covering their asses, than they are with doing what needs to be done. Do you thing our Grandfathers would have let this shit go on?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:10:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Slacker:

It's so rare that you get to see the birth of a conservsative in the wild.


Oh so true.

I wonder if it will be a full imersion baptism.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:11:57 AM EDT
OH I must TAG this thread. And ppl said it couldnt/wouldnt happen, that LEO wouldnt take from their common man. WAKE UP PPL!!!.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:12:46 AM EDT


Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:

``We had enough food for 10 days,'' said Peggy Hoffman, the home's executive director. ``Now we'll have to equip our department heads with guns and teach them how to shoot.''





Equip thgem with what? Weapons the police will confiscate when they need them?



Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:12:50 AM EDT
I'd keep mine.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:15:21 AM EDT
Somehow, I think if they saw you with a weapon, they'd appropriate it at gunpoint. They have permission to "Comandeer" supplies, vehicles etc., so they have permission to kill you over your weapon that you won't surrender.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Dave
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:16:06 AM EDT
This is my EBR.

There are many like it, but this one is MINE!

Now go wade off and LMTFA.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:18:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BayEagle:

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:

``We had enough food for 10 days,'' said Peggy Hoffman, the home's executive director. ``Now we'll have to equip our department heads with guns and teach them how to shoot.''







It's so rare that you get to see the birth of a conservsative in the wild.




Oh how true!
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:19:33 AM EDT
Sent mine yesterday. I put them on a 500 ft barge. but then it sank ....
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:19:46 AM EDT

Bob Mann, an aide to the governor, said dozens of law officers are being brought in from around the country and Canada to help stop the looting. Officials said they hope the 4,000 National Guard troops already in New Orleans, who have been engaged in search and rescue, will be available for police actions.





It's gonna be an eye opener for my compatriots!
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:20:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:21:54 AM EDT
Police officers were asking residents to give up any firearms before they evacuated neighborhoods because police desperately needed the firepower: Some officers who had been stranded on the roof of a hotel said they were being shot at overnight.

Are they 'asking' or are they taking? Or do they call it 'comandeering'?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:23:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Somehow, I think if they saw you with a weapon, they'd appropriate it at gunpoint. They have permission to "Comandeer" supplies, vehicles etc., so they have permission to kill you over your weapon that you won't surrender.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Dave



If they saw me with a gun, it'd be prudent for them to keep their hands away from theirs. I would cheerfully and with a clear conscience shoot dead anybody, including a cop, who tried to disarm me under circumstances like those.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:26:23 AM EDT
Gotta agree with that sentiment, no offense to the LEOs, but given the order of the day I'd have to do what needed to be dome to ensure I got through it ok.

Dave
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:38:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StinkFoot:
Police officers were asking residents to give up any firearms before they evacuated neighborhoods because police desperately needed the firepower: Some officers who had been stranded on the roof of a hotel said they were being shot at overnight.

Are they 'asking' or are they taking? Or do they call it 'comandeering'?



If you ask and I have one to spare I might consider it. Try to take it by force and that's another matter entirely. Anyone with an IQ above 1 should know better than to threaten armed people in a disaster area.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:42:05 AM EDT
Like rabid animals some of them need to be put down. But what would you do if placed in that situation? Makes you wonder if there aren't a few thousand potential looters here at ARFCOM. Too many variables to hold on to a single point of view.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:42:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:44:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 5:49:09 AM EDT by SC-Texas]
This is a prime example of why I want a Belt Fed MG and a 9.25" OCC POF upper for my M-16!



Oh, forgot the Beta C Mag!

Oh, yeah, Fuck no I wouldn't give a LEO one of my ARs or one round of ammo, unless I knew them personally off the board. Why? Because I figure I will have family or frends that will need them at some point. Maybe some of my born in the wild conservative (i.e. currently liberal) friends.

I have been labeled a cop hater and basher becasue I do not beleive in relying on the cops to help you in an emergency. Case in point: New Orleans!
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:49:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Somehow, I think if they saw you with a weapon, they'd appropriate it at gunpoint. They have permission to "Comandeer" supplies, vehicles etc., so they have permission to kill you over your weapon that you won't surrender.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Dave



I thought the reason they wanted the firearms was because they didn't have any. So, how could they be doing this at gunpoint? If they have guns, then the original argument is invalid, and it must be simple armed robbery.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:50:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Somehow, I think if they saw you with a weapon, they'd appropriate it at gunpoint. They have permission to "Comandeer" supplies, vehicles etc., so they have permission to kill you over your weapon that you won't surrender.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Dave




Unfortunately I think you're right. How I would respond would depend on the tactical situation: how many of them were there, what was my position, etc. NO ONE is getting my guns in a situation like that, LEO or not.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:54:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rjroberts:

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Somehow, I think if they saw you with a weapon, they'd appropriate it at gunpoint. They have permission to "Comandeer" supplies, vehicles etc., so they have permission to kill you over your weapon that you won't surrender.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Dave



I thought the reason they wanted the firearms was because they didn't have any. So, how could they be doing this at gunpoint? If they have guns, then the original argument is invalid, and it must be simple armed robbery.



Hard to say from the article. I have seen cops with rifles, pistols, and shotguns. Some may have lost their weapon in flood or some may want to upgrade from a pistol to something with a little more thrust-per-squeeze.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:00:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By uncle_frank:
Instead of equipping their cops with decent gear, NO has, for many years, spent money on "feel good" projects, along with hiring some of the worst possible candidates for the job. The entire force is certainly not corrupt, but enough are that the force has taken several...justifiable, I might add...black eyes because of it.

Somehow, even as a retired LEO, I just cannot find it in my heart to send them any of MY guns or ammo.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Everyone in the LEO community knew that the NOLA Police force was one of the worst in the nation. Hell, were they not being run by the Feds? Ordinary people of the city, both good and bad, had no faith in them even during good times. How on earth would anyone expect them to perform well during a time like this? The Feds, and the State knew this. I can't for the life of me understand why a Military

response was not planned for right away, just to keep civil order. If even a few looters were shot through the head early on, NOLA wouldn't be in this mess. It just goes to show you that the Government at all levels is impotent, and more concerned with PC, and covering their asses, than they are with doing what needs to be done. Do you thing our Grandfathers would have let this shit go on?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




No, uncle_frank, my grand fathers fought in WWI in the AEF...I know exactly what they would have done, and it involves some rope and a stout tree limb or a lamp post. My grand mother always used to tell us to "set a good example"...I'm thinking a little neck-stretching would be an excellent start!



Just look at how our Great Grandfathers handled the 1900 Galveston hurricane and the 1906 SF Earthquake. Looters were shot real fast, and all able bodied men detained to work and help.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:22:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 7:25:27 AM EDT by PerryF]

Originally Posted By KnobCreek:
If this were in NC, my response:

"Chief, when you pre-sign and do not date, 6 form 4s and 2 form 1s (which the prick is presently giving me shit about...just one though), I'll be happy to help you out with these fine Hesse/Model1sales rifles. Of course, I'll even thrown in 10 USA brand 30 round mags for you. Ammo, sure....Bernaul or Wolff



LOL

Just fill out this 9 page application, pay the 300 tax per gun, and wait 3 months.
What you say you need them today, get real!
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:22:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
Evidently the New Orleans PD is one of these PC departments who believes sidearms are sufficient for their officers. I bet the officers wish they had some AR's right now.



Amen
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:26:31 AM EDT
They can have the sks or the old bolt action or my .410.

ARs and 12 gauges are mine.


Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:30:00 AM EDT
Let it be a military action. Isn't there a base nearby that they can call upon troops?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:30:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BayEagle:

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:

``We had enough food for 10 days,'' said Peggy Hoffman, the home's executive director. ``Now we'll have to equip our department heads with guns and teach them how to shoot.''







It's so rare that you get to see the birth of a conservsative in the wild.



So now you're saying you believe in evolution....
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:32:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BayEagle:

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:

``We had enough food for 10 days,'' said Peggy Hoffman, the home's executive director. ``Now we'll have to equip our department heads with guns and teach them how to shoot.''







It's so rare that you get to see the birth of a conservsative in the wild.



LMFAO. Maybe if they are nice I can tell them where some SKS rifles "might" be buried.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:35:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By StinkFoot:
Police officers were asking residents to give up any firearms before they evacuated neighborhoods because police desperately needed the firepower: Some officers who had been stranded on the roof of a hotel said they were being shot at overnight.

Are they 'asking' or are they taking? Or do they call it 'comandeering'?



If you ask and I have one to spare I might consider it. Try to take it by force and that's another matter entirely. Anyone with an IQ above 1 should know better than to threaten armed people in a disaster area.



That actually sounds like BEGGING for them not TAKING them... big difference. And one that completely escaped TacticalStrat...
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:35:52 AM EDT
``It's really difficult because my opinion of the looting is it started with people running out of food, and you can't really argue with that too much,'' Nagin said. ``Then it escalated to this kind of mass chaos.''

Let me translate: I didn't do anything because I am an idiot. Now that I have done nothing and that only made it worse, I have to do something. I am working hard to figure out what the stupidest thing to do would be, and so far I've come up with this plan.

G
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:46:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By StinkFoot:
Police officers were asking residents to give up any firearms before they evacuated neighborhoods because police desperately needed the firepower: Some officers who had been stranded on the roof of a hotel said they were being shot at overnight.

Are they 'asking' or are they taking? Or do they call it 'comandeering'?



If you ask and I have one to spare I might consider it. Try to take it by force and that's another matter entirely. Anyone with an IQ above 1 should know better than to threaten armed people in a disaster area.



If I had any left after arming myself and anyone else in my party with a minimum of a long gun and a pistol, then I'd share.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:49:19 AM EDT
NO LEOs are idiots or simply lost the touch with reality????


Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:58:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 7:59:28 AM EDT by Mike_Mills]

Originally Posted By TacticalStrat:

``We had enough food for 10 days,'' said Peggy Hoffman, the home's executive director. ``Now we'll have to equip our department heads with guns and teach them how to shoot.''



This is why we have programs such as the Civilian Marksmanship Program, every good and true citizen needs to know how to use firearms in defense of their country (society).



Police officers were asking residents to give up any firearms before they evacuated neighborhoods because police desperately needed the firepower: Some officers who had been stranded on the roof of a hotel said they were being shot at overnight.

This is yet ANOTHER reason we have the second ammendment - civilian firearms being used to support law enforcement. It adds depth and redundancy to the system. Couple the gear with a populace trained in their use and you have a force to help restore order to a ravaged City.


Link Posted: 9/1/2005 7:58:38 AM EDT
Hmm, I must be the only that got the impression that the officers were asking people that were evacing the area and possibly leaving weapons behind if they would give them to the officers instead.

I must not have enough tinfoil on.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:01:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By StinkFoot:
Police officers were asking residents to give up any firearms before they evacuated neighborhoods because police desperately needed the firepower: Some officers who had been stranded on the roof of a hotel said they were being shot at overnight.

Are they 'asking' or are they taking? Or do they call it 'comandeering'?



If you ask and I have one to spare I might consider it. Try to take it by force and that's another matter entirely. Anyone with an IQ above 1 should know better than to threaten armed people in a disaster area.



That actually sounds like BEGGING for them not TAKING them... big difference. And one that completely escaped TacticalStrat...






Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:18:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 8:19:01 AM EDT by KnobCreek]

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Hmm, I must be the only that got the impression that the officers were asking people that were evacing the area and possibly leaving weapons behind if they would give them to the officers instead.

I must not have enough tinfoil on.



Sure officer, take my guns, and ammo. Good luck!! Go get 'em 9/1/2005

Two months later as I'm being brought into the court house by that same officer for illegally and knowingly loaning my gun out - Said officer says to me as I'm being put in a cell, "Good luck, son. Give 'em hell"

No way!! I don't TRUST the police or the system. This scenario somehow stinks to high hell.

Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:26:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
Hmm, I must be the only that got the impression that the officers were asking people that were evacing the area and possibly leaving weapons behind if they would give them to the officers instead.

I must not have enough tinfoil on.



That's because you read what it SAID. You need the secret tinfoil decoder ring and the code off the stop sign down at the end of your street to get the TRUE meaning.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 8:29:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 8:30:54 AM EDT by Johninaustin]

Originally Posted By SC-Texas:
This is a prime example of why I want a Belt Fed MG and a 9.25" OCC POF upper for my M-16!

www.houstonattorney.org/images/Emoticon/199610382642ba16736161f7to-minigun.gif

Oh, forgot the Beta C Mag!



Have you ever considered just hitting what you are aiming at the first time? Save a lot of ammo $$ that way.

Home Depot has contractor grade wheelbarrows for 89$
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