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Posted: 8/7/2005 1:08:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 1:16:36 PM EDT by COLE-CARBINE]
First Round fired from 38-Calibre NLOS Cannon



UPDATED August 3, 2005 The Non-Line-of-Sight Cannon (NLOS-C) Concept Technology Demonstrator is the next generation advanced cannon artillery solution for the US Army and it has been clocking up milestones on its fast-tracked road to deployment recently. Designed to move rapidly and set-up quickly, the Non-Line of Site cannon is capable of firing a round every 10 seconds and maintaining a sustained rate of six rounds per minute at ranges of nearly 15 miles. The NLOS-C is a hybrid-diesel aluminium-armored vehicle with extremely quiet 18-inch band tracks. Most significantly, it is far more automated than any mobile cannon in history, with an automatic ammunition-handling system laser igniter and enough robotics to reduce the crew from four to two compared to the Crusader it will replace. It is also half the weight of a Crusader, 30 percent more fuel-efficient and the lead manned ground vehicle system of the US Army's Future Combat Systems program.

The lighter-weight 38-caliber length tube replaces the CTD's 39-caliber length tube which fired more than a thousand rounds during trials over the last two years and the successful integration and firing of the 38-caliber tube (in less than one month) is a milestone in the development path toward fielding NLOS-C prototypes in 2008.

The NLOS-C provides unprecedented responsiveness and lethality to the Unit of Action commander. The NLOS-C provides networked, extended-range targeting, and precision attack of point and area targets in support of the Unit of Action with a suite of munitions that include special purpose capabilities.

The Non-Line-of-Sight Cannon NLOS-C provides sustained fires for close support and destructive fires for tactical standoff engagement. The system’s primary purpose is to provide responsive fires in support of the FCS Combined Arms Battalions , and their subordinate units in concert with line-of-sight, Beyond-Line-of-Sight, Non-Line-of-Sight, external and Joint capabilities.

The system provides flexible support through its ability to change effects round-by-round and mission-by-mission. These capabilities, combined with rapid response to calls for fire and rate of fire, provide a variety of effects on demand.

The cannon will be able to move rapidly, stop quickly, and deliver lethal first round effects on target in record time. The NLOS Cannon will have a multiple round-simultaneous impact (MRSI) capability.

The MRSI capability, coupled with the NLOS-C’s superior sustained rate of fire, will provide record effects on target from a smaller number of systems. The cannon, like all Manned Ground Vehicle variants, can rapidly rearm and refuel, and its system weight makes it uniquely deployable. Fully automated handling, loading, and firing will be another centerpiece of the NLOS-C. The NLOS-C balances deployability and sustainability with responsiveness, lethality, survivability, agility, and versatility.



(from gizmag.com)
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:10:50 PM EDT
looks like an M114 with a big gun on top.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:12:18 PM EDT
Caliber, or mm ?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:14:53 PM EDT
cool
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:23:44 PM EDT
Sweet! Thanks for the pics
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:24:18 PM EDT
How are they gonna hit anything of range with a little .38? Might as well upgrade to .357
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:27:03 PM EDT
Fuck the 10/22; all I REALLY need now is a 38!!!!
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:27:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Caliber, or mm ?



I think it refers to 38 times as long as the bore dia.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:32:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 1:33:56 PM EDT by COLE-CARBINE]

Originally Posted By Rocklock:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Caliber, or mm ?



I think it refers to 38 times as long as the bore dia.



.38 is the caliber. The previous demonstrator was .39 caliber. IIRC 39 caliber is the same as 155mm. Maybe one of the arty types could confirm if this is true or if I'm full of crap.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:38:45 PM EDT
Caliber in this case means the length of barrel. IIRC it's the bore diameter times the caliber will give you the barrel length. At least, that's the way it is with naval guns.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:39:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:

Originally Posted By Rocklock:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Caliber, or mm ?



I think it refers to 38 times as long as the bore dia.



.38 is the caliber. The previous demonstrator was .39 caliber. IIRC 39 caliber is the same as 155mm. Maybe one of the arty types could confirm if this is true or if I'm full of crap.



.38 caliber is about 9mm. You might want to rethink your math.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:43:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:

Originally Posted By Rocklock:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Caliber, or mm ?



I think it refers to 38 times as long as the bore dia.



.38 is the caliber. The previous demonstrator was .39 caliber. IIRC 39 caliber is the same as 155mm. Maybe one of the arty types could confirm if this is true or if I'm full of crap.



.38 caliber is about 9mm. You might want to rethink your math.



you do notice that it is CALIBRE right? this is not the standard small arms measurement(obviously)
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:46:46 PM EDT
What's the point when you have air support?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:48:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JimTh:
What's the point when you have air support?



you're joking right?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:54:08 PM EDT
Only partly.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:59:56 PM EDT
field artillery is more effective than air power formobile forces as they can communicate directly, they speak the same language(communicating with airforce types is a PITA if you are an Army type), and they can put more steel on target in a shorter amount of time than an airstrike.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 2:02:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 2:18:04 PM EDT by Katana16j]
Range is a little short compared to the new South African guns though (Almost half).

We still don't have anything as capable as the G6-52 Rhino, and it looks like we don't even have anything in the works to bridge the gap.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 2:15:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 2:15:44 PM EDT by Old_Painless]
Interesting story.

Title is misleading as it has been pointed out, this probably refers to the naval designation, not ture caliber.

38 caliber in naval guns means the barrel legnth is 38 times the barrel diameter, IIRC.

I'm sure Zapod or some other Swabbie will set me straight if I don't RC.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 2:26:18 PM EDT
Crew of two? That'll be kind of a pain when it comes to replacing tracks & other field maintenance I would think.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 2:28:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RiffRandall:
Crew of two? That'll be kind of a pain when it comes to replacing tracks & other field maintenance I would think.



its a band track so busting track isnt going to be an issue, cleaning the gun on the other hand might be a PITA with only two guys on board.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 2:45:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Katana16j:
Range is a little short compared to the new South African guns though (Almost half).

We still don't have anything as capable as the G6-52 Rhino, and it looks like we don't even have anything in the works to bridge the gap.



Just guessing but...

Wouldn't any 155mm system with the proper electronics be able to fire the Denel V-LAP rounds?

And from a cost standpoint, how much cheaper is a V-LAP round compared to a MLRS round? If V-LAP cost is anywhere near MLRS, the money is better spent on more MLRS.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:39:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 3:41:43 PM EDT by Zaphod]

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Interesting story.

Title is misleading as it has been pointed out, this probably refers to the naval designation, not ture caliber.

38 caliber in naval guns means the barrel legnth is 38 times the barrel diameter, IIRC.

I'm sure Zapod or some other Swabbie will set me straight if I don't RC.




Well, "caliber", strictly defined, is the internal diameter of a gun tube (or the diameter of the projectile). Since this is a British gun, I can only conclude that the projectile is 38mm in diameter.

Naval guns have traditionally been identified in inches or mm. I don't remember a relationship to length, but then again, my ship didn't have a gun, so...

".22 caliber" simply means .22 inch in diameter. The word caliber has no mathematical value attached to it.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:40:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:

Originally Posted By Rocklock:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Caliber, or mm ?



I think it refers to 38 times as long as the bore dia.



.38 is the caliber. The previous demonstrator was .39 caliber. IIRC 39 caliber is the same as 155mm. Maybe one of the arty types could confirm if this is true or if I'm full of crap.



It's not .38 Caliber. It's 38 Caliber. 100 times bigger.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:44:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

I don't remember a relationship to length, but then again, my ship didn't have a gun, so...




Well heck, in that case, I claim as much knowledge as you do about naval guns.

What would a Sewer Pipe Sailor know about guns?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:51:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 3:54:02 PM EDT by txgp17]

Originally Posted By Rocklock:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Caliber, or mm ?


I think it refers to 38 times as long as the bore dia.


Exactly, IIRC, the Iowa class BB's had 45 caliber guns, 16"x45=720"=60'

Originally Posted By JimTh:
What's the point when you have air support?


This puppy can lob shells on a target at a fraction of the cost of a guided missle or bomb.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:53:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

I don't remember a relationship to length, but then again, my ship didn't have a gun, so...




Well heck, in that case, I claim as much knowledge as you do about naval guns.

What would a Sewer Pipe Sailor know about guns?


I'd like to call attention to my previous post. I don't want to toot my own horn, OK I do.

Caliber, when used in reference to the big guns, the length of the barrel divided by the bore diameter, in inches or mm. It doesn't matter because caliber has no units.

For instance, the 76mm/62 gun on FFGs is 4,712mms long or close to 5 meters.
The 5"/54 gun on destroyers and cruisers is 270 inches long or 22.5 feet.
This gun is 155mm/38 so its barrel is 5,890mms long or close to 6 meters or ~232 inches or 19.3 feet.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:54:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 3:55:14 PM EDT by TheRedHorseman]
ok so if 1 caliber is one inch diameter(remember, .50 cal is 1/2 inch diameter)
and one inch=25.4 mm then this gun is 964.2mm

there has to be a multiplier for length of barrel in there
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:55:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By txgp17:

Originally Posted By Rocklock:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Caliber, or mm ?



I think it refers to 38 times as long as the bore dia.


Exactly, IIRC, the Iowa class BB's had 45 caliber guns, 16"x45=720"=60'



Actually the Iowas had the 50cal long 16's. But all the other 16" gun battleships had 45cal tubes.

That cannon looks suspiciously like something from the Soltam catalogue...
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:56:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
ok so if 1 caliber is one inch diameter(remember, .50 cal is 1/2 inch diameter)
and one inch=25.4 mm then this gun is 964.2mm

there has to be a multiplier for length of barrel in there


Do not apply the small arms definition of caliber to big guns. For small arms 1 inch is 1 caliber. For the large guns 1 caliber = bore diameter.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:59:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By COLE-CARBINE:

Originally Posted By Rocklock:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Caliber, or mm ?



I think it refers to 38 times as long as the bore dia.



.38 is the caliber. The previous demonstrator was .39 caliber. IIRC 39 caliber is the same as 155mm. Maybe one of the arty types could confirm if this is true or if I'm full of crap.



It's not .38 Caliber. It's 38 Caliber. 100 times bigger.



LOL. Stupid Typo on my part. Good catch.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 3:59:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

I don't remember a relationship to length, but then again, my ship didn't have a gun, so...




Well heck, in that case, I claim as much knowledge as you do about naval guns.

What would a Sewer Pipe Sailor know about guns?


I'd like to call attention to my previous post. I don't want to toot my own horn, OK I do.

Caliber, when used in reference to the big guns, the length of the barrel divided by the bore diameter, in inches or mm. It doesn't matter because caliber has no units.

For instance, the 76mm/62 gun on FFGs is 4,712mms long or close to 5 meters.
The 5"/54 gun on destroyers and cruisers is 270 inches long or 22.5 feet.
This gun is 155mm/38 so its barrel is 5,890mms long or close to 6 meters or ~232 inches or 19.3 feet.



Okay, you made me do some Googling.

The Battleship Texas had 14 inch/45 caliber guns, meaning 14 X 45 = 630 inch, divided by 12 inches = 52 foot barrels.

The Battleship Alabama had 16"/45 cal. guns, meaning 16 X 45 = 720, divided by 12 = 60 foot barrels.

I hereby claim more Naval knowledge than the Sewer Pipe Sailor, Zaphod.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:00:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
field artillery is more effective than air power formobile forces as they can communicate directly, they speak the same language(communicating with airforce types is a PITA if you are an Army type), and they can put more steel on target in a shorter amount of time than an airstrike.



And they don't have to leave to go fill up on gas, and weather isn't a factor.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:01:46 PM EDT


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By JimTh:
What's the point when you have air support?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This puppy can lob shells on a target at a fraction of the cost of a guided missle or bomb.



Yes but can you get it where its needed.
The problem recently with guns is that they have not been available, because we couldn't get them or the ammo to feed them within firing range of the enemy.
But the Air Forces have much improved their response time and generally have been always been there.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:03:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 4:10:05 PM EDT by prk]

Originally Posted By Rocklock:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Caliber, or mm ?



I think it refers to 38 times as long as the bore dia.




bingo

ETA: Do you suppose they will actually crew them with just two? -- one injury, gun out of commission?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:15:19 PM EDT
Okay you red legs. Why is this thing called a "non line of sight cannon?" I thought all artillery/cannons/howitzers/mortars/ were indirect fire (non line of sight). They can be used in direct fire mode, but are mainly indirect fire.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:16:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By prk:

Originally Posted By Rocklock:

Originally Posted By falaholic1:
Caliber, or mm ?



I think it refers to 38 times as long as the bore dia.




bingo

ETA: Do you suppose they will actually crew them with just two? -- one injury, gun out of commission?


I would imagine there is an ammo carrying vehicle. Perhaps, they get help from there?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:18:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

I don't remember a relationship to length, but then again, my ship didn't have a gun, so...




Well heck, in that case, I claim as much knowledge as you do about naval guns.

What would a Sewer Pipe Sailor know about guns?


I'd like to call attention to my previous post. I don't want to toot my own horn, OK I do.

Caliber, when used in reference to the big guns, the length of the barrel divided by the bore
diameter, in inches or mm. It doesn't matter because caliber has no units.

For instance, the 76mm/62 gun on FFGs is 4,712mms long or close to 5 meters.
The 5"/54 gun on destroyers and cruisers is 270 inches long or 22.5 feet.
This gun is 155mm/38 so its barrel is 5,890mms long or close to 6 meters or ~232 inches or 19.3 feet.




Toot mine too while your at it ! You where twenty mins late Har HAR


Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:23:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 4:24:15 PM EDT by dport]

Originally Posted By Rocklock:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

I don't remember a relationship to length, but then again, my ship didn't have a gun, so...




Well heck, in that case, I claim as much knowledge as you do about naval guns.

What would a Sewer Pipe Sailor know about guns?


I'd like to call attention to my previous post. I don't want to toot my own horn, OK I do.

Caliber, when used in reference to the big guns, the length of the barrel divided by the bore
diameter, in inches or mm. It doesn't matter because caliber has no units.

For instance, the 76mm/62 gun on FFGs is 4,712mms long or close to 5 meters.
The 5"/54 gun on destroyers and cruisers is 270 inches long or 22.5 feet.
This gun is 155mm/38 so its barrel is 5,890mms long or close to 6 meters or ~232 inches or 19.3 feet.




Toot mine to while your at it ! You where twenty mins late Har HAR




TOOT TOOT.

You're right, you beat me too the punch and were 100% correct.


Is that good?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:26:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Rocklock:

Originally Posted By dport:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

I don't remember a relationship to length, but then again, my ship didn't have a gun, so...




Well heck, in that case, I claim as much knowledge as you do about naval guns.

What would a Sewer Pipe Sailor know about guns?


I'd like to call attention to my previous post. I don't want to toot my own horn, OK I do.

Caliber, when used in reference to the big guns, the length of the barrel divided by the bore
diameter, in inches or mm. It doesn't matter because caliber has no units.

For instance, the 76mm/62 gun on FFGs is 4,712mms long or close to 5 meters.
The 5"/54 gun on destroyers and cruisers is 270 inches long or 22.5 feet.
This gun is 155mm/38 so its barrel is 5,890mms long or close to 6 meters or ~232 inches or 19.3 feet.




Toot mine to while your at it ! You where twenty mins late Har HAR




TOOT TOOT.

You're right, you beat me too the punch and were 100% correct.


Is that good?



Perfect , did any body figure out what the actual bore Dia. is ?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:28:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rocklock:
Perfect , did any body figure out what the actual bore Dia. is ?



The Crusader it is replacing was a 155mm gun, was it not?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 4:35:58 PM EDT
I want one.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:01:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
Yes but can you get it where its needed.
The problem recently with guns is that they have not been available, because we couldn't get them or the ammo to feed them within firing range of the enemy.
But the Air Forces have much improved their response time and generally have been always been there.



Artillery is not obsolete yet. The Army likes to send a few counter-battery rounds out when one of their bases in Iraq or Afghanistan gets mortared, and it does a good job of suppressing the mortar crews. The Marines made heavy use of their 155's at Fallujah. Lack of artillery at Anaconda was a major issue; several 105mm mountain guns would have been invaluable, even with all the air in theater circling overhead.

Maybe sometime i n the future we can all rely on unmanned vehicles orbiting overhead with SDBs, but not yet.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 5:12:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheRedHorseman:
field artillery is more effective than air power formobile forces as they can communicate directly, they speak the same language(communicating with airforce types is a PITA if you are an Army type), and they can put more steel on target in a shorter amount of time than an airstrike.





Plus artillery units integrated into UAs will provide organic fire support. Instead of some Air Force fighter jock you've never met providing CAS for you, some dude that lives next to you in the barracks and you eat chow with in the mess hall will provide some high angle hell.

Also, ground-based artillery has a superior loiter time compared to aircraft.
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