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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/1/2006 5:29:06 PM EDT
New Mexico Archbishop says House bill 'mean spirited'
Feb 26, 2006
kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=4555130&nav=HMO6HMaW
Roman Catholic Archbishop Michael Sheehan says a U.S. House proposal to build 700 miles of fence along the Mexican border in New Mexico, Texas, Arizona and California is "a very hostile act."

Sheehan called on the U.S. Senate to work out a positive immigration bill to counter the House's "mean-spirited" bill, which passed late last year on a vote of 239-182. He heads the Archdiocese of Santa Fe, which includes more than 300,000 Catholics.

The House's border security bill includes proposals to build fences in five cities along the U.S.-Mexico border and to enlist the military and local law enforcement to stop illegal entrants. It did not include a guest worker proposal sought by President Bush.

"When I think of walls, I think of the Berlin Wall," Sheehan said. "I think of it as a very hostile act."

"There's a kind of an unkind, anti-immigration spirit in our country today," said the archbishop, who called it a mistake to make criminals out of people entering the country illegally.(?)

Mexicans are outraged by the House bill, especially the extension of a border wall, which many of them also likened to the Berlin Wall. The Mexican government has pledged to block the plan and to organize an international campaign against it. (Wow, they already think this is THEIR country)

The Senate has not passed an immigration bill. Once it does, senators will meet with members of the House to hash out differences in their legislation.

Many immigration advocates expect the Senate will not include many of the House measures.

Sen. Pete Domenici, R-N.M., recently finished a bill of his own that would allow a work visa of nine years.

"Those who talk like, 'Let's just ship them home,' they don't understand the moral dimension of this issue," Domenici said.

Sen. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., said the Senate will have a serious debate about undocumented workers.

Bingaman opposes the House bill, and said he hopes the Senate comes up with something that makes sense.

Representatives of a coalition of religious, labor and business groups said last month they generally favor legislation offered by Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., that would permit illegal immigrants to obtain work visas for up to six years, with the opportunity to apply for permanent residency.

Sheehan said the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops also favors the McCain-Kennedy bill so far because it shows more mercy and practicality.

He said bishops see three key issues, to provide a way for undocumented workers to obtain permanent legal status under certain conditions, to offer a guest worker program that would let undocumented workers register and stay in the country for a number of years, and to show a greater appreciation for them.

"Our economy would be in shambles if all of a sudden the undocumented would be removed," said Sheehan, secretary of the conference.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:41:01 PM EDT
I don't know of any Catholics who pay attention to what their bishop has to say. The only clergy that matters anymore to most Catholics is their parish priest. Only the bishops think they are importnant anymore.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:44:29 PM EDT
I wonder what this guy is smoking, anti-immigrant spirit?
He friggin knows they are ILLEGALS committing crimes way
out of proportion to their representation in the population
Including molesting, rape, kidnapping and murder of CHILDREN
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:45:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Will-Rogers:
I don't know of any Catholics who pay attention to what their bishop has to say. The only clergy that matters anymore to most Catholics is their parish priest. Only the bishops think they are importnant anymore.



My bishop is a complete ass.

Looks like with this guy it's another letter to the Vatican.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:46:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 5:47:30 PM EDT by 22bad]
Here is another one

Cardinal Has Immigration Message For Ash Wed. Mass
Mar 1, 2006
cbs2.com/local/local_story_060104049.html
(AP) LOS ANGELES The leader of the Los Angeles Roman Catholic Archdiocese is expected to call for parishioners to mobilize on behalf of illegal immigrants in his Ash Wednesday Mass.

Cardinal Roger Mahony told the Los Angeles Times that it's the first time he'll call the entire 5 million-member archdiocese -- the nation's largest -- to get behind a social issue.

Mahony made his comments as congress begins to consider regulations that would require social organizations and church groups to ask people for documentation when approached for help. He said he'll instruct his priests to defy that legislation if it is passed.

Mahony is criticizing efforts by the immigration control groups like Minuteman Project that police the border.
He said he's against what he calls a "hysterical" anti-immigration sentiment sweeping the nation.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:58:16 PM EDT
Time to revoke the catholic church`s tax exempt status. And yes, I`m a rotten catholic.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 8:01:37 PM EDT
heh... i went to catholic high school. they talked the bishop up all the time. he was a great person, he was wise, he was so close to god ect ect ect



he resigned my senior year for fucking little boys


the last shred of respect i had for the church died at that momment
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 8:06:20 PM EDT
Heard this on the radio, couldn't find it in the MSM, it is the Minutemen's response, he lays it out pretty good

Minuteman founder reacts to Cardinal Mahony's statements on illegal immigration
March 2, 2006
alipac.us/article1081.html
"As a Catholic, it troubles me to have to say that Cardinal Mahony is just flat wrong," Gilchrist said. "First of all, he seems to not understand the difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration. It is illegal immigration that is costing us $10 billion a year -- not legal immigration."

Gilchrist strongly objected to the Cardinal's threat to ignore laws passed by Congress with which he disagrees: "It discredits the church and brings shame to parishioners to say we are not going to follow the laws of the United States -- the most accepting nation on earth. What would happen if every church decided to only follow the laws with which they agreed?"

"Those hit hardest by illegal immigration are the poor who are squeezed from the job market. Meanwhile, the middle class see their tax burden skyrocket to pay for education and healthcare for illegal immigrants. It is the church's flock that has to foot the bill and they are unlikely to be receptive to paying higher taxes to satisfy Cardinal Mahony's political agenda," said Gilchrist.

Gilchrist also disagreed with the Cardinal's statement that illegal immigration opponents are "hysterical": "It is emphatically not 'hysterical' to want to stop the flow of drugs streaming across our borders, not to mention ending the murders and rapes which are a regular occurrence -- and it is irresponsible to suggest it is."


"The Catholic Church is a worldwide institution. If this were only about helping the needy as the Cardinal claims, that could just as easily be done in any of the other of the dozens of nations illegal aliens come to America from," stated Gilchrist.

Gilchrist concluded, "One thing the Cardinal is right about: There is enormous ignorance out there. But this time it just happens to be coming from the church."

Jim Gilchrist and Jerome Corsi, Harvard Ph.D. and co-author of the New York Times #1 bestseller "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry," have teamed up to write a shocking account of the endless flow of drugs, terrorists, and economic refugees at America's borders. The book -- which will expose the Mexican government's open complicity in this growing crisis -- will be published by World Ahead Publishing and be available in bookstores nationwide this July.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 8:56:31 PM EDT
Hmmmm............

Clergy dismiss proposed illegal-alien law
Keyonna Summers
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
March 3, 2006
www.washtimes.com/metro/20060302-105552-3538r.htm
Local clergymen whose churches help illegal aliens say they would disobey a proposed law that they say would require them to verify the legal status of their clients.
"We're going to provide services -- period," says Susan Gibbs, spokeswoman for the Archdiocese of Washington. "We serve tens of thousands of new immigrants -- some undocumented, some not -- every year. And we can't not help them.
"It's the same as with a sick child: You're not going to ask them if they're documented before helping them."
The Rev. Lou Piel, head pastor at Grace United Methodist Church in Gaithersburg, says his church will "definitely continue to provide aid," such as coffee and restroom facilities, to day laborers who gather each morning in the church's parking lot.
"The policy of the church is, we are a Christian church and these are human beings, whether they are legal or illegal," Mr. Piel says.
Church leaders are voicing opposition to House legislation that is scheduled to come before the Senate this week.
Sponsored by Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner Jr., Wisconsin Republican, the bill calls for extending legal-status verification duties to public, private, for-profit and nonprofit agencies that help illegal aliens find work.
The bill calls for up to five years in prison for anyone who directs or assists an illegal alien to reside or remain in the United States. It also would impose a maximum fine of $40,000 for each illegal alien who an employer hires or who an agency helps find work.
Supporters of the bill say it is aimed at cracking down on those who smuggle or hire illegal aliens, not groups that run day-laborer centers or provide other assistance to them.
Nonetheless, the National Capital Immigrant Coalition -- an umbrella of about 40 religious, business and civic groups -- plans to demonstrate against the bill Tuesday at the U.S. Capitol.
Connie Hair, spokeswoman for the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, an illegal-entry watchdog group, says she thinks churches have "overblown the concern" about facing jail time or fines.
"I don't think [churches] so much exacerbate the situation [of encouraging illegal immigration]," Miss Hair says. "Churches do what churches do, which is give comfort and aid to people, and far be it for anyone to dictate to a church how to take care of humanity.
"That said, I think they need to take a look at what causes people to come across and do some real thinking about ways that they can help with the severe human rights issues associated with [human] trafficking," she says. "They should include that in any humanitarian aid that they're giving."
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:36:20 PM EDT
The Clergy seems pretty supportive of illegals, like many Police chiefs are

Bishops' immigration stance splits Catholics
Tensions rise as migrants swell parish rolls
CLAUDINE LOMONACO
Tucson Citizen
and DANIEL GONZALEZ
The Arizona Republic
March 11, 2006
www.tucsoncitizen.com/news/border_news/031106a1_immigrantchurch
A couple of years ago, Tucson Bishop Gerald Kicanas wandered into the church in Altar, Son., looking for the parish priest.

He was startled by what he found instead - 18 young men in worn sweatshirts and work pants, kneeling or sitting by themselves in the pews, heads bowed. The migrants were about to set out on foot across the desert toward Arizona.

"We think of young people as not at all religious, " Kicanas said, "and here were young men, they were probably between 17 and 22, just fervent in prayer, putting their lives in the hands of God."

And, as far he was concerned, in the hands of the Catholic Church.

In the five years Kicanas has been in Arizona, he has made the plight of immigrants his battle cry. And he's hardly alone.

Catholic leaders here and across the Southwest are showing a growing willingness to weigh in on the side of immigrants in the acrimonious political debate over solving illegal immigration and securing the nation's borders.

In New Mexico, for example, Archbishop Michael Sheehan recently attacked a U.S. House proposal to build 700 miles of fence along the U.S.-Mexico border, calling it "a very hostile act."

Los Angeles Cardinal Roger M. Mahony said he would instruct his priests to defy a federal proposal to require churches to check the legal status of parishioners before helping them. The bishop of San Bernardino, Calif., who oversees a swath of metro L.A. and the desert around Palm Springs, reminded parishioners that immigrants have traditionally been welcomed in this country and asked for "solidarity" on the issue.

And here in Arizona, Kicanas and Phoenix Bishop Thomas Olmsted were so alarmed by the growing hostility toward illegal immigrants they wrote a pastoral letter to parishes throughout the state in December reminding Catholics that welcoming immigrants is part of what it means to be a good Catholic.

But as Catholic leaders grow increasingly more outspoken on behalf of immigrants, they are running into resistance from a surprising source: Catholics. Parishes are proving to be just as divided on immigration as most the country, and at least some members are letting their priests and bishops know they're opposed to the church's stance.

For the Catholic Church, however, immigration means gaining large numbers of Hispanic immigrants, both legal and illegal, from Mexico and Latin America. Many parishes have blossomed because of the contributions of new immigrants and their families.

Also, bishops have been emboldened by a national campaign called "Justice for Immigrants" organized by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

The campaign is aimed at pushing Congress to pass comprehensive immigration reform that would legalize many of the 11 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. and create more legal channels for immigrants to come to this country to work.

Targeting the nation's 65 million Catholics, including about 800,000 in Arizona, the drive has gained momentum at a time when Congress is taking a hard look at immigration. The Senate Judiciary Committee began debating sweeping immigration and border security legislation this month. And in December, the House passed a proposal that emphasizes a focus on greater enforcement of immigration laws and fortification of the U.S.-Mexico border.

"The right of migrants to improve their economic status, through illegal entry into another country, cannot be found in Catholic moral teaching," said retired business planner George Garbell, 70, a parishioner at St. Joan of Arc Church in Phoenix. "The Church does teach that persons have the right to survival, even if it means stealing to do so. However, there is no justification for violating the laws to improve one's standard of living."

Retired IBM manager Rob Haney, a parishioner at St. Thomas Catholic Church in Phoenix, also is strongly opposed to the bishops' stance on immigration. He feels the bishops are supporting "open borders" that would turn the United States into a "Third World Country."

"They (bishops) have no respect for the sovereignty of the country," Haney said. "They want more welfare from the federal government to aid illegal immigration."

By supporting immigration reform that would legalize millions of Latino immigrants, the bishops are undercutting their own stance against abortion, because Latinos tend to vote Democratic, Haney added.

"It makes no sense, " Haney said.

Other Catholics privately hold similar views, expressing them in e-mails and letters to the bishop, or to the Catholic Sun, the diocesan newspaper, said Jose Robles, director of Hispanic Ministry for the Phoenix diocese.

Church leaders say they realize their stance on immigration is controversial, and that not all Catholics agree.

"The church is not a 'majority rules' society," Kicanas said. "The church tries to live out a tradition entrusted to it by Christ and sometimes what the church teaches is not popular. Sometimes what the church teaches is not what the people would vote for."

Church leaders don't condone illegal immigration and agree the nation's borders must be secured, said Bishop Olmsted of the Phoenix Diocese. But the current immigration system is broken, and out of sync with the nation's labor needs, he said. It forces immigrants to sneak in the country illegally, and results in hundreds of migrant deaths each year, Olmsted said.

"We aren't promoting illegal immigration," Olmsted said. "What we want to have is an immigration policy in this country that meets the real needs and it's not working."

The Catholic Church in the United States has a long history of welcoming immigrants from all over the world, he noted.

"Most all Catholics were immigrants, or their parents were, or their grandparents were," Olmsted said.

The Catholic dioceses in San Bernardino; Tucson; Phoenix; and El Paso, Texas, are among 70 out the country's 197 that have joined the Justice for Immigrants campaign, said Leo Anchondo, the national manager.

The campaign's goal is to build political will for immigration reform primarily by "changing the minds and hearts" of Catholics, Anchondo said.

"The bishops do not deny that many Catholics may be among those who disagree with them on comprehensive immigration reform, but that is precisely why they have launched this campaign," he said.

The campaign relies on Church social teachings in hopes of swaying Catholics.

"It is part of our Catholic faith to welcome strangers and our faith calls upon us to welcome the stranger who came into our country to seek a better life for themselves and their family," Anchondo said.

Maybe so. But not all Catholics see it that way.

"On one hand you feel compassionate for these people," said retired businessman Dick Bauer, a parishioner at St. Mary's Basilica in Phoenix. "On the other hand, we are WERE a nation of laws."
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:09:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
I wonder what this guy is smoking, anti-immigrant spirit?
He friggin knows they are ILLEGALS committing crimes way
out of proportion to their representation in the population
Including molesting, rape, kidnapping and murder of CHILDREN



are you talking about illegal aliens here or catholic priests?
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:35:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 22bad:
The Arizona Republic
March 11, 2006

In New Mexico, for example, Archbishop Michael Sheehan recently attacked a U.S. House proposal to build 700 miles of fence along the U.S.-Mexico border, calling it "a very hostile act."

Defense is "hostile"? That has never been the position of the Church.

Los Angeles Cardinal Roger M. Mahony said he would instruct his priests to defy a federal proposal to require churches to check the legal status of parishioners before helping them.
Mahony is a complete whacknut, and regarded by many Catholics as a heritic concerning Church teaching. But this one he gets right. The Church cannot be a branch of the immigration department. Church and State cuts both ways.


And here in Arizona, Kicanas and Phoenix Bishop Thomas Olmsted were so alarmed by the growing hostility toward illegal immigrants they wrote a pastoral letter to parishes throughout the state in December reminding Catholics that welcoming immigrants is part of what it means to be a good Catholic.
Which is true, illegal immigrants however are a different matter.

Also, bishops have been emboldened by a national campaign called "Justice for Immigrants" organized by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.
The USCB is the organization that allowed homosexual priests to molest thousand of young boys. Why? Because many of them are, well, lets just say they are not fans of the ladies.

"The right of migrants to improve their economic status, through illegal entry into another country, cannot be found in Catholic moral teaching," said retired business planner George Garbell, 70, a parishioner at St. Joan of Arc Church in Phoenix. "The Church does teach that persons have the right to survival, even if it means stealing to do so. However, there is no justification for violating the laws to improve one's standard of living."
A sad day when everyday Catholics know the teachings of the Church better than most Bishops.

Church leaders don't condone illegal immigration and agree the nation's borders must be secured, said Bishop Olmsted of the Phoenix Diocese. But the current immigration system is broken
Simply because people break the law does not mean the law is broken. Are the nations laws against murder "broken"?

and out of sync with the nation's labor needs, he said
Because Bishops today know as much about economics as they do about the Catholic faith.


It forces immigrants to sneak in the country illegally.
Really, it "forces" them to break the law? How about telling the leaders of the third world wasteland that is Mexico to drop marxist socialism?

The campaign's goal is to build political will for immigration reform primarily by "changing the minds and hearts" of Catholics, Anchondo said.
Anything to take people's minds off their criminal mishandling of the abuse scandal.

"It is part of our Catholic faith to welcome strangers and our faith calls upon us to welcome the stranger who came into our country to seek a better life for themselves and their family," Anchondo said.
Yeah, ones that came here through the front door, not climbed in the second floor bedroom after they broke the window to get in.


Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:03:34 AM EDT
They DO lock the doors to the tabernacle and are certainly concerned about protecting what THEY feel is valuable.

They're hypocrites of the first order and scofflaws.

I think they are budding little religious fascists.

People who enter illegally are criminals by definition, it is their doing.

Tabernacle stolen, hosts defiled at India church

1/31/2006

5

PANAJI, India (UCAN) – In the latest in a series of crimes involving Catholic churches in Goa during the past year, robbers broke into a church, carried off the tabernacle and scattered consecrated hosts.

The incident occurred on the night of Jan. 26-27 at Sts. Cosmas and Damian Church in Bogmalo, 30 kilometers (about 20 miles) south of Panaji, the state capital. Panaji is 1,910 kilometers south of New Delhi (about 1,200 miles).

The parish sacristan noticed the church door open and the tabernacle missing on the morning of Jan. 27.

Parish priest Father Emidio Braganza told UCA News he gathered parishioners by ringing the church bell. With the help of police dogs, the tabernacle was found abandoned on a nearby hillock. The consecrated hosts were scattered on the ground and the gold-plated ciborium was missing, he said. Some 100 rupees (US$2.20) also were missing from a collection box inside the church, he added.

The theft is the 13th church break-in Goa Archdiocese has recorded since February 2005. Most of the incidents involved thefts of antiques and artifacts. There was no defilement of consecrated hosts earlier. The archdiocese covers Goa state, which was a Portuguese colony until 1961.

The "spate of robberies has become a growing concern" for the church, according to Father Joaquim Loiola Pereira, secretary to Archbishop Filipe Neri Ferrao of Goa. "We are at a loss to understand how not a single culprit has been booked," he said.

Father Braganza said the latest incident seems to have been carried out by "people who do not know what they were doing." He said the parish prayed for God's forgiveness for them. Experts reportedly lifted fingerprints from the tabernacle. The parish priest "did not hear any noise – not even the church lock being broken." The "heavy" tabernacle was not affixed to the altar, but at least two people would have been needed to carry it outside, he said.

However, Father Pereira called the latest event "alarming" and said it "seems to be calculated to offend the Christian community." In his view, "It seems most unlikely that the holy tabernacle was mistaken for a strongbox."

Father Maverick Fernandes, co-coordinator of the archdiocesan Social Justice and Peace Cell, said the archdiocese is "terribly disappointed and let down" by the "indifference and lack of seriousness" from state police.

Each break-in incident has been reported to the police, but "not a single" lead was followed up or perpetrator apprehended. "To us, there seems to be a clear pattern to these robberies. Unfortunately, it does not seem so to the police," he told UCA News.

The Bogmalo break-in happened two weeks after the archdiocese held a meeting Jan. 7 seeking a strategy to protect church's heritage. Father Braganza said the meeting of priests and lay leaders resolved to undertake round-the-clock security for churches containing valuable objects.

Creating bstrong rooms for church treasures, installing alarm systems and hiring night watchmen also were suggested as preventive measures. Participants further decided to document and record religious art objects, with the possibility of insuring them if necessary.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 10:59:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Fourays2:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
I wonder what this guy is smoking, anti-immigrant spirit?
He friggin knows they are ILLEGALS committing crimes way
out of proportion to their representation in the population
Including molesting, rape, kidnapping and murder of CHILDREN



are you talking about illegal aliens here or catholic priests?



illegals, I don't think many of the priests kidnap\murder children
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 11:06:56 AM EDT
Probably figures it will give him more young boys
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 11:11:19 AM EDT
I don't listen to what priest's say. They really have very little understanding about anything outside of their scope of expertise. They were on the wrong side of fascism in WW2 and only recently admitted it. Even my wife who is Catholic, does not listen when they spout political claptrap. Most are admitted liberal weenies.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 11:21:07 AM EDT
follow the money.

always follow the money.

lets see we are talking the catholic church, you know the one near bankrupcy due to ass raping priests.

patronage of the catholic church is way down. people are tired of its 2 faced bullshit and child buggery.

and what are organized religions, all of them,?

businesses. they are all out to sell you salvation, peace harmony, child buggery whatever.

and they are loosing customers.

and what religion are the vast majority of the illegeals?

Catholic.

cha ching its all about building up their customr base again.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 11:35:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By darth_pavoris:
follow the money.

always follow the money.

lets see we are talking the catholic church, you know the one near bankrupcy due to ass raping priests.

patronage of the catholic church is way down. people are tired of its 2 faced bullshit and child buggery.

and what are organized religions, all of them,?

businesses. they are all out to sell you salvation, peace harmony, child buggery whatever.

and they are loosing customers.

and what religion are the vast majority of the illegeals?

Catholic.

cha ching its all about building up their customr base again.



Not all religions are bad, this Country was founded on religious principles, but made sure it was not run by religious fiat. I know plenty of religious people who have not sold out to anyone. And some that have. Something like firearm owners and hunters sometimes and gun bans. Always have the good with the bad.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 1:45:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By alaman:
Probably figures it will give him more young boys



Yup
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