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Posted: 6/13/2013 2:26:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2013 12:32:26 PM EST by murph1329]
Before I get into the story of my denial let me start by telling you all about my criminal history.
Twelve years ago when I was a freshman in college, 18 years of age, I was at a bar which was raided by ABC. I was charged with with a MIP of alcohol and a false ID, my brother's expired ID with nothing altered on it in any way.
I was able to get off with youthful offender and I ended up doing close to 100 hours of community service. Picked up a lot of trash on 15th street and spent a lot of time at the West Alabama Food Bank.

During the twelve years since I've purchased a few guns, both pistols and long guns. The last purchase I made was at a FFL in north Alabama about two years ago. The background check went off without a hitch and I walked out with my M&P .40 same day.

Last week I purchased a rifle on gunbroker. It was delivered from a FFL in Florida to a FFL in Alabama. The seller was very easy to talk to and it went off without any problems. That was until it was time to pick up the rifle at my FFL. I walked in and filled out the 4473 at which time the call was made to the FBI for the NICS background check. The guy was on the phone for a while and he had both my drivers license and SSN. After an extended period of time he hung up the phone and told me my request was denied. It was like someone punched me in the gut. I had made purchases before and hadn't had the slightest hiccup on my record since the MIP and false ID 12 years ago. I was almost in a state of panic wondering if someone had stolen my identity or if some clerical error caused a pervious charge to be upgraded incorrectly. Heck I even had family members saying it may be my recent travels to India and South Africa that I made within a year for business, crazy but it makes about as much sense as anything else.

Today I ran around the city of Birmingham and mailed off my fingerprint card and NICS Appeal Request Form to the FBI. Due to the long wait times it was recommend to me by someone at the sheriff's office to apply for a pistol permit. Pistol Permits in Alabama must go through a NICS background check and are usually a one week turnaround. If you are denied they'll put the exact reason on it, at least this is what I'm told. For the heck of it I also had them run my license to see if anything came up that would of prevented me from purchasing a firearm and I was told my record was clean.

At this point I'm playing the waiting game and hoping the request doesn't take too long. The rifle is a beautiful Arsenal SLR-107CR with refinished wood furniture and a krinkov style break....it's definitly a wall hanger. I'll post pictures of it this weekend.

Anyways I just started the process and I'll be adding to this as sort of a diary. Hopefully this ends up helping others going through this same problem. If you have a similar story or advice please feel free to share it.
Link Posted: 6/14/2013 8:14:28 AM EST
No stories or advice, just tagging to see how this turn out for you.
Link Posted: 6/14/2013 2:29:55 PM EST
I'm in. Good luck.
Link Posted: 6/15/2013 4:05:22 AM EST

Today I ran around the city of Birmingham and mailed off my fingerprint card and NICS Appeal Request Form to the FBI. Due to the long wait times it was recommend to me by someone at the sheriff's office to apply for a pistol permit. Pistol Permits in Alabama must go through a NICS background check and are usually a one week turnaround. If you are denied they'll put the exact reason on it, at least this is what I'm told. For the heck of it I also had them run my license to see if anything came up that would of prevented me from purchasing a firearm and I was told my record was clean.


When I applied years back, I got a letter from the FBI stating something on my record about running from a PO (which was true). I had to contact the County Court House and they had to go through the paperwork from the archives, was not in the computer system, it stated a criminal act (35+ years ago) and not a felony so I got my license...

All I am saying is that you need to contact the court house and get the paperwork to see what you where exactly charged with, then the proof of accomplishment and release order from the judge (judge's ruling)....

Again good luck


Link Posted: 6/22/2013 9:49:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By murph1329:
Before I get into the story of my denial let me start by telling you all about my criminal history.
Twelve years ago when I was a freshman in college, 18 years of age, I was at a bar which was raided by ABC. I was charged with with a MIP of alcohol and a false ID, my brother's expired ID with nothing altered on it in any way.
I was able to get off with youthful offender and I ended up doing close to 900 hours of community service. Picked up a lot of trash on 15th street and spent a lot of time at the West Alabama Food Bank.

During the twelve years since I've purchased a few guns, both pistols and long guns. The last purchase I made was at a FFL in north Alabama about two years ago. The background check went off without a hitch and I walked out with my M&P .40 same day.

Last week I purchased a rifle on gunbroker. It was delivered from a FFL in Florida to a FFL in Alabama. The seller was very easy to talk to and it went off without any problems. That was until it was time to pick up the rifle at my FFL. I walked in and filled out the 4473 at which time the call was made to the FBI for the NICS background check. The guy was on the phone for a while and he had both my drivers license and SSN. After an extended period of time he hung up the phone and told me my request was denied. It was like someone punched me in the gut. I had made purchases before and hadn't had the slightest hiccup on my record since the MIP and false ID 12 years ago. I was almost in a state of panic wondering if someone had stolen my identity or if some clerical error caused a pervious charge to be upgraded incorrectly. Heck I even had family members saying it may be my recent travels to India and South Africa that I made within a year for business, crazy but it makes about as much sense as anything else.

Today I ran around the city of Birmingham and mailed off my fingerprint card and NICS Appeal Request Form to the FBI. Due to the long wait times it was recommend to me by someone at the sheriff's office to apply for a pistol permit. Pistol Permits in Alabama must go through a NICS background check and are usually a one week turnaround. If you are denied they'll put the exact reason on it, at least this is what I'm told. For the heck of it I also had them run my license to see if anything came up that would of prevented me from purchasing a firearm and I was told my record was clean.

At this point I'm playing the waiting game and hoping the request doesn't take too long. The rifle is a beautiful Arsenal SLR-107CR with refinished wood furniture and a krinkov style break....it's definitly a wall hanger. I'll post pictures of it this weekend.

Anyways I just started the process and I'll be adding to this as sort of a diary. Hopefully this ends up helping others going through this same problem. If you have a similar story or advice please feel free to share it.


One thing you're missing....NSA data on you....They know all.

Link Posted: 6/27/2013 6:25:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/27/2013 6:26:40 PM EST by SuperSixOne]
For the heck of it I also had them run my license to see if anything came up that would of prevented me from purchasing a firearm and I was told my record was clean.

They wouldn't be able to tell you without running your Triple I, which they can't do outside of CJ employment and an Arrest/very serious investigation. Your traffic record is probably clean which shows up on your license.
Link Posted: 6/28/2013 4:10:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/28/2013 4:14:23 PM EST by murph1329]
Well I must say nice job FBI on the turnaround time. I can't believe I'm saying that but I gotta give credit where credit is due and two weeks is pretty impressive.

Below is the letter I received from the FBI. It's a pretty interesting read and all it does is confuse me even more. Last week I called Tuscaloosa Court House to verify my records and all they were able to tell me is I had two YO charges on my record and if I wanted more information I would have to come down in person. It's looking like I'll be a busy man on Monday. I plan on submitting my pistol permit, driving to Tuscaloosa, and calling up Montgomery.

Hopefully I'll have better news in the next couple of weeks.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee285/murph1329/scan0001.png

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee285/murph1329/scan0002.png
Link Posted: 7/2/2013 9:31:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/2/2013 9:39:18 AM EST by murph1329]
Yesterday I turned in my pistol permit application. At this point I fully expect it to be denied but hopefully the reason will help me with getting this resolved.

Today I drove down to the Tuscalooa District Court to get copies of my case summaries. I will not be putting up screenshots of those case summaries due to all the personal information but I will tell you what they are:


  • 09/13/2002 - FNLE - Giving False Name To Officer - Adjudged a Youthful Offender on 12/17/2002

  • 09/13/2002 - MAAL - Alcohol Minor/Poss/Consume - Adjudged a Youthful Offender on 12/17/2002



All court documents have been notarized and signed.

The lady I talked to at the Alabama Criminal Justice Information Center (ACJIC) in Montgomery told me that in order to challenge any record I would need to go through the process. The first stage of this process is to get a copy of my criminal history. Getting a copy of this requires filling out a simple form, submitting 25 dollars, fingerprint card, and photo. After I have my criminal history I'll be able to challenge any item by pleading my case and providing any court documentation, all of this will of course cost me another 25 dollars.

This is where it gets interesting....
When I was down in Tuscaloosa the lady behind the counter told me that they've seen roughly 15 people come in recently with the same problem as me. She told me that recent clerical errors had been made at the ACJIC causing a lot of charges to be incorrectly entered into their system. If this is the cause of my problems hopefully it will be as easy as challenging the line items.

If my challenge with the state is successfull then a letter will be sent to me. Once I receive this I'll need to forward it to the FBI appeal services team (AST). The AST will evaluate my case again and provide me with their decision.

I'm probably still a few months away from being able to pick up my firearm but at least the fog is starting to clear a little.
Link Posted: 7/2/2013 10:52:05 AM EST
Probably a clerical error shows the charges still open, but that's just a guess. The alternative is that the charges are entered as being more serious erroneously.
Link Posted: 7/9/2013 4:23:59 AM EST
What a great day!

I still don't have my rifle, but a manager at the ACJIC called me up today at 8am. She had me confirm my criminal history and told me that the dispositions in their system are incorrect. To fix it all I need to do is send her an email with my case summaries and NTN number. After it's corrected they will notify the FBI and send me an updated version of my criminal history at no cost.

If all goes well this will be behind me in no time!
Link Posted: 7/9/2013 4:38:59 AM EST
It's ridiculous that you can legally own a firearm (as you are not a felon) yet be denied a transaction.
Having to put you through all of this work is insane. Good luck!

My friend had to have his record expunged due to a plea deal.
Basically, this boss told him it was OK to use their company discount at an auto parts store (NAPA).
NAPA found out he was making personal purchases on that discount, added up all the discount and had him charged with grand larceny.
His company would not back him up that he was told OK and it probably wouldn't have mattered.

Years later, he went to the judge and got his 2nd amendment rights restored in VA. Then he had to go to NC to get the record cleared.
Luckily the judge went through with all of it and his rights were all restored, but it took FOREVER.
Then, NC was still listing him as a felon or something in their system, causing huge issues outside of VA (like renewing your drivers license or some crap, I can't remember).
After about a year of tracking it all down, he got everything cleared up.

So, keep on it and good luck.
Link Posted: 7/9/2013 5:06:36 AM EST
It is not a coincidence. They are being directed to deny any possible way.
Link Posted: 7/9/2013 5:17:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/9/2013 5:44:30 AM EST by murph1329]
you could be right

Maybe they're really ratcheting down on the whole NICS system to deny as many people as possible for even the stupidest of reasons. They could be counting on a lot of those people not being proactive enough to go through the system to clear their name.

The thing that confuses me the most is a FNLE (Section 13A-9-18.1) conviction in Alabama is a class A misdemeanor which carries a max sentence of not more than one year (Section 13A-5-7). Even if I wasn't granted YO I don't think this should have prevented me from purchasing a firearm due to the following NICS prohibitor: Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.

What is crazy in a way is some politician could fight to change the law to make some misdemeanor class a year and a day. With no grandfather clause attached thousands would be instantly put on a list to be denied their right to own a firearm without their knowledge, which is kind of scary to me especially when you have people like Eric Holder keeping NICS denials indefinitely so they can prosecute them.
Link Posted: 7/9/2013 3:16:27 PM EST
This is BS.

They should only deny for confirmed prohibitors, not for "we do not know why".
Link Posted: 7/9/2013 4:36:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By 1IV:
It is not a coincidence. They are being directed to deny any possible way.


Source?
Link Posted: 7/10/2013 8:45:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2013 12:34:11 PM EST by murph1329]
I received an email from the manager I was dealing with down in Montgomery stating that all my records have been updated, so I decided to give NICS another shot. As you can tell from the picture below I passed!

I'd like to give everyone at the FOP Range in Pleasant Grove a big shout out. Thank you all so much for being understanding and working with me during all this. For anyone else that is unfortunate enough to go through this the only advice I can give you is to be respectful to everyone you talk to. Also when you start the appeal with the FBI go ahead and get your criminal history from the criminal justice information center and any case summary records that you may have, this will greatly speed up the process.

After all this I've gained a new found respect for our freedoms in this country. It's not until you get them taken away do you realize how much you appreciate them; however, it is kind of sad how easily you can lose them....even from a simple clerical error.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee285/murph1329/20130710_121038.jpg

All I need to do now is put in the paperwork to SBR it.
Link Posted: 7/10/2013 8:56:09 AM EST
I'm very glad it worked out for ya. I wonder how long before every infraction of the law
(speeding, jaywalking, spitting on sidewalk, parking ticket etc) will be a felony and will
bar you from your 2A rights?

Link Posted: 7/12/2013 9:29:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/12/2013 9:30:26 AM EST by JAD]
Originally Posted By murph1329:
you could be right

Maybe they're really ratcheting down on the whole NICS system to deny as many people as possible for even the stupidest of reasons. They could be counting on a lot of those people not being proactive enough to go through the system to clear their name.

The thing that confuses me the most is a FNLE (Section 13A-9-18.1) conviction in Alabama is a class A misdemeanor which carries a max sentence of not more than one year (Section 13A-5-7). Even if I wasn't granted YO I don't think this should have prevented me from purchasing a firearm due to the following NICS prohibitor: Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.

What is crazy in a way is some politician could fight to change the law to make some misdemeanor class a year and a day. With no grandfather clause attached thousands would be instantly put on a list to be denied their right to own a firearm without their knowledge, which is kind of scary to me especially when you have people like Eric Holder keeping NICS denials indefinitely so they can prosecute them.


Under federal law, state classified misdemeanors with less than 2 year sentences are not prohibitors. State disqualifying criterion vary.
Link Posted: 7/12/2013 3:38:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/12/2013 3:43:31 PM EST by murph1329]
I don't think that's the case....

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/nics-index

A crime punishable will be defined by the state you live in and will be stored in the Identification for Firearm Sales (IFFS) which is maintained by the state's criminal justice information center and has nothing to do with the FBI.
Now that's not to say some states don't have crazy laws. Heck in Alabama you can be disqualified for purchasing a pistol but not a long gun if you were involved in any violent crime regardless of the misdemeanor class.

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (1)
Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (2)
Is a fugitive from justice

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (3)
Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (4)
Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (5)
Is an alien illegally or unlaw-fully in the United States or who has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa.

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (6)
Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (7)
Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced U.S. citizenship

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (8)
Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (9)
Has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence

18, U.S.C. §922 (n)
Is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year
Link Posted: 7/15/2013 5:53:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By murph1329:
I don't think that's the case....

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/nics-index

A crime punishable will be defined by the state you live in and will be stored in the Identification for Firearm Sales (IFFS) which is maintained by the state's criminal justice information center and has nothing to do with the FBI.
Now that's not to say some states don't have crazy laws. Heck in Alabama you can be disqualified for purchasing a pistol but not a long gun if you were involved in any violent crime regardless of the misdemeanor class.

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (1)
Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (2)
Is a fugitive from justice

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (3)
Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (4)
Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (5)
Is an alien illegally or unlaw-fully in the United States or who has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa.

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (6)
Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (7)
Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced U.S. citizenship

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (8)
Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner

18, U.S.C. §922 (g) (9)
Has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence

18, U.S.C. §922 (n)
Is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year


See 18 USC 921 (a)(20)(B)

The term crime punishable by term of imprisonment exceeding one year specifically excludes state-law misdemeanors punishable by a potential term of imprisonment of two years or less.
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 9:23:16 PM EST
would having a bench warrant prohibit one from redeeming a firearm from pawn?
Link Posted: 7/21/2013 9:24:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RockoZ:
would having a bench warrant prohibit one from redeeming a firearm from pawn?
View Quote

Yes
Link Posted: 7/27/2013 6:55:12 PM EST
Im happy things worked out.

Please tell me you that you you werent foolish enough to actually handed your fake id to the officer.... man thats rough.

What would of happened if you just got caught drinking and then gave them your real ID when they confronted you? Probably just a ticket right?
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