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Posted: 3/8/2006 10:38:21 PM EDT
[#1]
The maroon beret is authorized for wear by all personnel assigned to an airborne unit. Funnily, the soldier doesn't even have to be airborne qualified themselves. (As I understand it though, it isn't pleasant being a maroon-wearing, non-jump-qualified leg in an airborne unit.)
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Posted: 3/9/2006 5:55:56 AM EDT
[#2]
+1 There's an AFN commercial going right now with an E4 in a maroon beret who's like in Supply or some shit, got Soldier of the Year or some crap like that. 
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Posted: 3/9/2006 8:27:47 AM EDT
[#3]
As said before, Airborne units (101st doesn't count) are authorized the maroon beret as headgear. For example, around here is the NG LRS unit. They also wear the maroon beret.
BTW, if you see somebody wearing one and you can't tell if they are a Paratrooper or a chef, punch him in the throat and tell him to take a class on the proper wear of the beret. That is my biggest pet peeve. |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 10:53:49 AM EDT
[#4]
Oui Oui!! |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 11:04:29 AM EDT
[#5]
I've seen VERY few that know how to wear them. Any color!
The fuckers hijacked our black berets and dishonored their meaning and how difficult it was to earn the right to wear one. Assholes. Sua Sponte, Prib |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 11:10:29 AM EDT
[#6]
rgrprib, While I agree with you that Shitseki was an idiot who should have left well enough alone, the black berets weren't originally the hallmark of the Rangers. In fact, it was US Army tankers (damn treadheaded DATs) who first wore black berets in the US Army. They liked the fact that you could put it on and not have it show the grease and oil that covered your hands from breaking track or pulling powerpacks all day long. So, it could be argued by tankers that elitist Rangers stole their black berets and made them symbolic of their tough guy status. (Not my personal position - just playing Devil's Advocate here.) |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 11:38:50 AM EDT
[#7]
I'll take my patrol cap any day of the week thank you very much, I didnt do anything special to earn a beret.
I'll admit that it looks a damn sight better than the garison cap ever did in Class A's and B's. I have to admit to getting irritated when people dont wear their flippin headgear properly though... Beret, Kevlar or other included. Lazy ass mo-fo's. |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 12:46:32 PM EDT
[#8]
Take it easy! Most of us who have to wear them don't want them. I do not intentionally dishonor those who are rightfully entitled to them, I just soldier on as best I can til I retire. Thank you for your service. |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 1:50:15 PM EDT
[#9]
As Princes Leia said to the Ewoks - don't be afraid its just a hat. ETA: As someone above mentioned the balck beret has traditionaly been the symbol or Armor. Someone said something about "earning a beret." Most Armies in the world choose the beret as their headgear. Frankly we in the Army get too wrapped up about bullshit - what's on the outside is not nearly as important as what's on the inside. Having been in The Old Guard in teh earrly 1990's I got jaded pretty early - plenty of PFC "triple stacks" with and AAM and an ARCOM simply to look pretty. I like the ACU's becuase we have gotten rid of the officer branch and people are effectively discouraged from wearing all the ash and trash on their Combat uniforms by not having sew ons. We are all Soldiers. EATA: And the Ranger Regiment came out ahead anyway with the Sand colored beret tying them to their contemporary founding unit the SAS so the whining seems really dumb. |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 1:53:13 PM EDT
[#10]
heading for cover... 
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Posted: 3/9/2006 2:06:07 PM EDT
[#11]
And frankly its pretty insulting to the rest of us to say that sharing a symbol "dishonors" it - Rangers may frequently be the tip of the spear - but that tip is useless without the rest of us.
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Posted: 3/9/2006 3:22:18 PM EDT
[#12]
the black beret was a symbol of what they had earned. You can say it's "just a hat" but to those who have earned it, it's more than that.
I get pretty damn irritated myself when I see people wearing things they haven't earned (be it an eagle globe and anchor, a purple heart, or some dumbass kid wearing Sgt stripes as a fashion statement) so I can identify with how the rangers feel. They feel dishonored because it USED to mean something......not anymore though. How do you thing the green berets would feel if the same thing happened? |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 3:55:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Yes we are all soldiers but it's a fact some are better than others.
 I don't buy into the "Army of one" b.s., sorry. |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 3:59:47 PM EDT
[#14]
I would think the Tab has much more meaning then a piece of black felt......
Don't know about the rest of you but I spent my 21-years being a Soldier.. never got wrapped around the axle over a piece of head gear. Notice our Jar head brothers never get wrapped about head gear, they just get wrapped about the Word Marine...... of which they all consider themselves to be one and the same, regardless of job title...... Lesson to be had their for any one smart enough to find it.....
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Posted: 3/9/2006 4:02:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Yeah we don't get wrapped up about hats, but the black beret to them IS like the title Marine to us IMHO. I gather this from the Rangers I know...
Like I said before, it's more than just black felt to them...
not gonna argue there...
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Posted: 3/9/2006 5:07:59 PM EDT
[#16]
What a bunch of manure. Someone that showed up to the Ranger Regiment becuase of assignment, wore the black beret - they were Rangers by assginement - the tab Ranger v. the Scroll Ranger. To compare it to people wearing military decorations as a fashion statement is asinine. For awhile, and I know they have gone back and forth, all people assigned to SF Groups wore Green Berets - I think they have gone back to the Maroon Beret for non-Q course people. From the beginning the Green Beret was the symobl of SF. |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 5:10:36 PM EDT
[#17]
You know what a tabbed, scrolled Master Parachusist, EIB'ed, CIB'ed Ranger is with out everyone else? Broke, hungry, and un promoted. I guess my Sappers aren't good enought to support you - please don't call us. |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 5:12:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Manure? Whatever. I'm not a Ranger so I don't know the specifics (like that non rangers wore it if they were attached, which I think is also BS)
It was a point of pride and the army took it away for no good reason. If you had earned it you would feel differently I think
Way to twist words.... Nobody said other Soldiers are worthless, they are just different and don't rate to wear a black beret. Yes, every job in the mil is important- I'm Marine and I have a lot of pride in that. I don't like being called a Soldier. Does that mean I have no use for them? Absolutely not- it just means I am NOT one. |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 5:53:29 PM EDT
[#19]
The black beret was allowed by local comands, but was never an "offical" item by DoA. That said if the Army was going to wear berets I always felt the beret should match your branch colors, blue, red, etc.
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Posted: 3/9/2006 6:06:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Well, maybe I'm mistaken- like I said I'm a jarhead and I was always under the impression that black berets were a Ranger only thing.
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Posted: 3/9/2006 6:16:30 PM EDT
[#21]
No one I know in the regular Army wants to wear the beret. Don't get pissed at us, we don't write the uniform regs. (unless you're only talking about shit-seki who I agree is an asshole) BTW, I don't give a shit if I wear my beret "properly". It looks retarded no matter how it's worn. |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 6:52:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Lighten up Francis |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 7:21:12 PM EDT
[#23]
I am NOT wearing a blue beret.  
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Posted: 3/9/2006 7:44:44 PM EDT
[#24]
You are incorrect. Somebody doesn't just "show up" for the Regiment. In order to be assigned to a Bat you must pass RIP or ROP. If you fail, you go somewhere else. |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 8:04:06 PM EDT
[#25]
When my brother arrived at Ranger school, after jump school, he had 1 month before his class started. After he arrived there was another soldier who came to Ranger school from his unit in Texas. I don't remember if it was a reserve unit or a NG unit, but a do remember it a Ranger unit. This guy showed up wearing camo jungle fatiques and a Black beret and he wasn't even jump qualified. It was the uniform of his unit. He was told to change into regular fatiques etc till he went back to his unit. This was in '74 I don't know what the current setup is. My brother was going to the newly formed Ranger battlion till he got hurt during Ranger school. |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 8:08:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Is everyone in the battlion Ranger Q'ed? The clerks etc? There are jobs other than 11* in the Battlion isn't there? |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 8:20:45 PM EDT
[#27]
It's not just the 11 series soldiers that are sent to Ranger School, it's the 13F, 71L, 91W, 92G etc...
A few years ago Ranger School wasn't necessary to stay in Battalion but it was for getting promoted above E4. I'm not sure how it is now. |
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Posted: 3/9/2006 9:14:32 PM EDT
[#28]
Sorry but if you are an E-2 42L and are assigned to the Regiment you were a black beret and don't necessarily go throuhg RIP first. |
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Posted: 3/10/2006 6:59:11 AM EDT
[#29]
I agree with the new ACU policy on branch insignia, but I'm still not sold on the whole pin on skill badge thing.
As to the beret, if you're going to assign historical lineage to the Army's choice of colors, the Rangers should have been wearing green because they were trained by the WWII British comandos who also wore green. Army Special Forces should have worn tan, (sand), because of their association with the SAS, and of course every airborne force is maroon except for the Russians. Black is the universal color of tankers. The Germans even had black uniforms for their Army panzer troops, never mind the SS tankers. I agree that the whole beret issue was handeled poorly, and most Soldiers don't know how to wear one, but this ain't the end of the world. If you ask me they should have redesigned the garrison cap to the WWII style and brought back branch colors.
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Posted: 3/10/2006 9:37:58 AM EDT
[#30]
If you would have had to go through what we had to to earn the right to wear our berets, you think and feel diferently. Most of you didn't so you never know. To you it's "just a hat", does that mean that the rank on your collar is just metal? You didn't earn it? Sorry, I don't buy it.
Sua Sponte, Prib |
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Posted: 3/10/2006 9:40:30 AM EDT
[#31]
Orion - You don't just get assigned to a Ranger Battalion and they handed you a beret. There are a few details you missed.
Prib |
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Posted: 3/10/2006 10:08:06 AM EDT
[#32]
Yes, the tankers were really pissed that the Rangers decided to make it their own headgear, tradition be damned. The kicker is that the tankers picked the black beret for practical reasons, not because it looked good. (No peak to get in the way of the sights, and the colour hid the grease/oil stains) NTM |
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Posted: 3/10/2006 10:13:49 AM EDT
[#33]
And exactly when were the authorized to wear them? When I was in there were only three groups authorized by the Army: 82nd, the two Ranger Battalions and Ranger cadre, and the SF groups.
Prib |
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Posted: 3/10/2006 10:15:43 AM EDT
[#34]
I don't know.. I remember talking to one major for several minutes about some pretty specific tanking things, and it wasn't until well into the conversation that I finally picked up that he wasn't a tanker, and had no idea what the hell I was on about. I'd have supported going the other way, giving branch insignia to enlisted as well. You know there are people who are proud of their branch, I've seen loads of enlisted with the sew-on insignia on the backs of their BDU caps or on the earplug cases back in the days that they were worn externally. Ran into a cav unit in ACUs where all the troopers had fitted velcro to the insignia and stuck it on the sleeve just under the unit patch. I think it's a bad idea, personally. NTM |
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Posted: 3/10/2006 10:24:00 AM EDT
[#35]
If the Sergeant Major of the Army is any authority on the matter, official authorisation was 1973-1979 www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/uniforms/history-of-the-black-bere.shtml It seems to me that the only 'basis for claim' on the black beret that Rangers had in 2001 was the fact that they had been exclusively authorised it for 22 years. It doesn't seem to have been chosen for them back in 1975 for any practical or traditional purpose, it just happened to look nice. They could have picked a tan, or polka-dot beret for all it mattered. Instead, they chose to use a piece of headgear associated with tankers worldwide for some fifty years before that, which had been chosen by tankers for practical purposes and which had some tradition behind the concept. And which was already in use by tankers in the US. NTM |
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Posted: 3/10/2006 12:30:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Well Col. Wayne A. Downing authorized me to wear my black beret once I completed RIP in 1978. I tend to have a lot more respect for him than Tilley.
Sua Sponte, Prib I am surprized that so many people say that just because some other country wears a certain color beret we, the US, need to too. |
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Posted: 3/10/2006 3:20:35 PM EDT
[#37]
To a Ranger, the Black Beret was coveted. Taking that away was a slap in the face to the most elite Infantry shock force in the world.
No, it's not "just a hat." |
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Posted: 3/10/2006 3:32:47 PM EDT
[#38]
For any airborne unit, and for any officer in command of airborne an airborne unit (eg 11 IN Regt CO can wear one, because he has an airborne battallion (1/507 PIR, aka jump school) under his command).... Since 82nd is the 'big one' & the Rangers wear tan, that's the one you see red with, most of the time... P.S. IMHO, you Airborne & Ranger types can have 'em back... I'd wear a PC for the rest of my career if they'd let me... |
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Posted: 3/10/2006 3:36:30 PM EDT
[#39]
[]
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Posted: 3/10/2006 5:19:39 PM EDT
[#40]
In the situation as it existed when the announcement was made in 2000/2001, I agree with you. By that point, the black beret had become associated with the Rangers by anyone who wasn't aware of the older tradition. For some 21 years, it was the exclusive symbol of having done something special, as has been advocated by Prib. I can respect that, and the fact that they were unhappy at the change. Frankly, I'm not overly enthralled by it either and wouldn't mind going back to the old BDU and Service caps. My points of contention, however, are that (a) The 2001 change for everyone to wear the thing isn't much different to Rangers than the 1979 dictat that tankers may no longer wear their own headgear was to Treadheads, and (b) that Rangers believed in 2001 that they should have a monopoly on a piece of headgear that was as near as I can tell arbitrarily chosen without, apparently, asking the other people who already had a 'claim' on that headgear. The fact that they now wear tan berets is an indicator that the important part of the symbol was not that it was a black beret, it was the fact that they had a piece of headgear to indicate that they were not your run-of-the-mill troop. If the black beret in itself was the important bit, then why did they change in 2001? Basically, what would it have hurt if for those 26 years, the Ranger beret was actually tan? They would still have their symbol, and tankers wouldn't have been put out.
Need to, no. But there are many military traditions that go beyond borders. Anything from saluting through the concept of 'jump wings' to firing three volleys at a funeral. Perhaps it's a sort of 'brotherhood of warriors' thing. NTM |
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Posted: 3/10/2006 5:50:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Back when the headgear change was announced, my wife (then fiancee) made an excellent observation. "Why would the American Army want to wear a French hat in order to raise morale?" She also opined that the PC was a much better choice and we should have stuck with it, since it's more like a baseball hat, which is, afterall, an American invention. So, if we want to be even less concerned about what other countries wear, let's all go back to wearing a truly American piece of headgear.
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Posted: 3/10/2006 5:54:28 PM EDT
[#42]
sorry pal, but to get to any of the Ranger bats you have ot go thru RIP or ROP. no E-2 42L is going straight to the bat without passing RIP. Most of the time they pull someone from the line (platoons) to fill the adminisrative slot. hey Ranger689, how's it going 1SG? |
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Posted: 3/10/2006 7:57:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Sorry but you don't put a 11B in the PAC. And my "it's just a hat" comment was not an orginal, but it came from a fellow soldier that was a Ranger Companjoy Commander. I know that all those key leader jobs have to be held at a different unit before you do it in the Regiment, but the fact is that to have an operational unit you need some people that can support the unit and not all of them are trained killers and armed to the teeth. Look, as a former 11B, I have a tremendous amount of respect for the Ranger Regiment and the mission the do; my former TOG CDR led 3d Bat into Panama. I also don't really understand why the Army i.e. GEN Shenseki thought this was a necessary change; it is probably not a decision that I would have made - but to say that it "dishonors" the Rangers is just plain offensive. In fact it is quite the opposite - imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. this webpage gives a good history of the beret and the decision making process. |
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Posted: 3/11/2006 12:25:44 AM EDT
[#44]
So I'm a fucking asshole because I am following the order to wear the beret? If you want to call somebody an asshole, there is only the 4 star that gave the order. |
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Posted: 3/11/2006 4:48:41 AM EDT
[#45]
+1 and last I checked Gen Shinseki was a Ranger |
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Posted: 3/11/2006 10:08:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Ranger qualified - not necessarily. However they will have passed RIP or ROP. |
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Posted: 3/11/2006 10:11:10 PM EDT
[#47]
Sorry, that would be wrong information. |
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Posted: 3/12/2006 1:31:33 AM EDT
[#48]
all my friends that worked in PAC were 11B's. That's the way it was in 88-90. It might be different in legland. this is primary source knowledge of being there. |
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Posted: 3/12/2006 2:28:05 AM EDT
[#49]
Ive kept out of this tread since I was one of the guys in the NG wearing a maroon beret. Some of the guys in my unit wore black, as it had been a Ranger Company at one point in its history. But anyway Bert Locher be dammed, if you want traditional colors for the Rangers then it should be a Medium blue, since that was the color of the Scottish bonnets that Rodgers Rangers wore.
Locher in his work on the rangers back in the 60s tried to make the connection that the rangers were the "First Green Beret's" but it was all bullshit, even quoting a fake journal to come up with the color of their headgear.
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Posted: 3/12/2006 2:38:35 AM EDT
[#50]
Actually you can be assigned to the new RSC's without going to RIP. You get the Scroll, and a maroon beret until such time as you go thru rip. Many of the initial "Plank Holders" in the new RSC's were transfered out of the 528th SOSB when it was deactivated and for the first time ever AFAIK people assigned to the regiment were not Vols. |
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