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1/22/2020 12:12:56 PM
Posted: 1/20/2015 2:05:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2015 2:22:12 PM EST by rzrsedge]
Haven't seen anything since last year on them doing away with the exemptions for trusts getting finger prints and CLEO approval. Did it go through? I thought it was supposed to be in effect this month if it passed?
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 2:09:43 PM EST
Pushed back to June or July. You've got time to Form 1 all the things.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 2:15:01 PM EST
send a letter op. send a letter.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 2:19:15 PM EST
Well I am somewhat tight on money until after harvest in June but I wondered if I should get the trust set up now and buy my first suppressor. Will these changes mean doing all that for every purchase or just the first time using the trust?
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 2:21:38 PM EST
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Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
Well I am somewhat tight on money until after harvest in June but I wondered if I should get the trust set up now and buy my first suppressor. Will these changes mean doing all that for every purchase or just the first time using the trust?
View Quote


If they actually make those changes, it will be on every form 1 or 4 you fill out. No time like the present to form 1 a half a dozen suppressors. Nothing says you have to actually construct them right away, after all.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 2:24:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:


If they actually make those changes, it will be on every form 1 or 4 you fill out. No time like the present to form 1 a half a dozen suppressors. Nothing says you have to actually construct them right away, after all.
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Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:
Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
Well I am somewhat tight on money until after harvest in June but I wondered if I should get the trust set up now and buy my first suppressor. Will these changes mean doing all that for every purchase or just the first time using the trust?


If they actually make those changes, it will be on every form 1 or 4 you fill out. No time like the present to form 1 a half a dozen suppressors. Nothing says you have to actually construct them right away, after all.
I don't even have my trust set up yet, I wanted to start with a .22 can and a .45.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 2:28:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2015 2:31:31 PM EST by RocketmanOU]
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Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
I don't even have my trust set up yet, I wanted to start with a .22 can and a .45.
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Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:
Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
Well I am somewhat tight on money until after harvest in June but I wondered if I should get the trust set up now and buy my first suppressor. Will these changes mean doing all that for every purchase or just the first time using the trust?


If they actually make those changes, it will be on every form 1 or 4 you fill out. No time like the present to form 1 a half a dozen suppressors. Nothing says you have to actually construct them right away, after all.
I don't even have my trust set up yet, I wanted to start with a .22 can and a .45.


Well, get on it. Once you're in the efile system, stamps are just way too easy to fill out

Link Posted: 1/20/2015 2:32:06 PM EST
If you live under an NFA friendly CLEO I would worry less about it than if you have one that doesn't sign-off.

Link Posted: 1/20/2015 2:34:25 PM EST
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Originally Posted By VBC:
If you live under an NFA friendly CLEO I would worry less about it than if you have one that doesn't sign-off.

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Or come to a place like OH where they have to
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 2:37:47 PM EST
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Originally Posted By VBC:
If you live under an NFA friendly CLEO I would worry less about it than if you have one that doesn't sign-off.

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I think they have to here, but they should pretty cool about it anyway, most of the LEO here are gun guys after work too.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 2:42:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2015 2:43:34 PM EST by rzrsedge]
I wasn't planning on any homemade ones to start out with (we do have a machine shop here on the farm, it's my dad's hobby. But I don't really know enough to make anything like that) But with the form 1's you would still pay the $200 with the application right? Not later when you make it? I want to do this all now but I don't have funds to spare (or I shouldn't spend what I have), and won't have any more until June-July.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 2:55:11 PM EST
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Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
I wasn't planning on any homemade ones to start out with (we do have a machine shop here on the farm, it's my dad's hobby. But I don't really know enough to make anything like that) But with the form 1's you would still pay the $200 with the application right? Not later when you make it? I want to do this all now but I don't have funds to spare (or I shouldn't spend what I have), and won't have any more until June-July.
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You pay up front when you file. When you eFile, they take credit cards. Just an FYI if that's helpful.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 2:59:46 PM EST
NFA trusts are out. ATF tech decided that trust's were originally designed on an attorney's desk and were therefore good to go. However the trust was redesigned when it hit the attorney's briefcase and is no longer a person under federal law and therefore cannot make/register NFA firearms. The act of touching the trust to leather actually redesigns the document.

I guess you can get a trust and secure it to your attorney's desk, just don't let it touch leather.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 3:07:14 PM EST
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Originally Posted By bteamleader:
NFA trusts are out. ATF tech decided that trust's were originally designed on an attorney's desk and were therefore good to go. However the trust was redesigned when it hit the attorney's briefcase and is no longer a person under federal law and therefore cannot make/register NFA firearms. The act of touching the trust to leather actually redesigns the document.

I guess you can get a trust and secure it to your attorney's desk, just don't let it touch leather.
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I'm lost, I thought trusts were still the way to go with NFA purchases or Form 1's.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 3:11:31 PM EST
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Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
I'm lost, I thought trusts were still the way to go with NFA purchases or Form 1's.
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Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
Originally Posted By bteamleader:
NFA trusts are out. ATF tech decided that trust's were originally designed on an attorney's desk and were therefore good to go. However the trust was redesigned when it hit the attorney's briefcase and is no longer a person under federal law and therefore cannot make/register NFA firearms. The act of touching the trust to leather actually redesigns the document.

I guess you can get a trust and secure it to your attorney's desk, just don't let it touch leather.
I'm lost, I thought trusts were still the way to go with NFA purchases or Form 1's.


I believe he's making a Sig Brace joke.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 3:12:36 PM EST
So if these changes happen, every person in the trust goes through the fingerprints and CLEO sign off with each purchase or form 1 is what I'm understanding. That will suck but still best to have a trust I would say for inheritance and possession issues.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 3:12:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Spenny08EU:


I believe he's making a Sig Brace joke.
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Originally Posted By Spenny08EU:
Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
Originally Posted By bteamleader:
NFA trusts are out. ATF tech decided that trust's were originally designed on an attorney's desk and were therefore good to go. However the trust was redesigned when it hit the attorney's briefcase and is no longer a person under federal law and therefore cannot make/register NFA firearms. The act of touching the trust to leather actually redesigns the document.

I guess you can get a trust and secure it to your attorney's desk, just don't let it touch leather.
I'm lost, I thought trusts were still the way to go with NFA purchases or Form 1's.


I believe he's making a Sig Brace joke.

That's a bingo!

Serious answer, trusts are still being approved as far as I know. The proposed rule change hasn't been implemented and there is speculation that it wont be implemented.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 3:13:34 PM EST
will this be retroactive or just apply to future purchases through trusts????
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 3:13:46 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Spenny08EU:


I believe he's making a Sig Brace joke.
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Originally Posted By Spenny08EU:
Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
Originally Posted By bteamleader:
NFA trusts are out. ATF tech decided that trust's were originally designed on an attorney's desk and were therefore good to go. However the trust was redesigned when it hit the attorney's briefcase and is no longer a person under federal law and therefore cannot make/register NFA firearms. The act of touching the trust to leather actually redesigns the document.

I guess you can get a trust and secure it to your attorney's desk, just don't let it touch leather.
I'm lost, I thought trusts were still the way to go with NFA purchases or Form 1's.


I believe he's making a Sig Brace joke.
I wondered but I'm so overwhelmed with NFA hoops and complications I don't have much brain power left to spare! Lol
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 3:13:51 PM EST
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Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
So if these changes happen, every person in the trust goes through the fingerprints and CLEO sign off with each purchase or form 1 is what I'm understanding. That will suck but still best to have a trust I would say for inheritance and possession issues.
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Every responsible person would have to jump through the hoops. In the case of a trust, it would include trustees or anyone authorized by the document to possess the trust property.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 3:15:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2015 3:16:02 PM EST by Lowcash]
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Originally Posted By vagrenadeer:
will this be retroactive or just apply to future purchases through trusts????
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No - get approved today and you're approved. They aren't going to come looking for finger prints and photo's in three years. No worries.

ETA: Future trusts once the rule changes (if it does change).
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 3:18:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2015 3:18:36 PM EST by vagrenadeer]
Originally Posted By Lowcash:
Originally Posted By vagrenadeer:
will this be retroactive or just apply to future purchases through trusts????
View Quote


No - get approved today and you're approved. They aren't going to come looking for finger prints and photo's in three years. No worries.

ETA: Future trusts once the rule changes (if it does change).
View Quote


Gotcha, thanks, I live in a county with a non nfa friendly CLEO (he will not sign off, but will waste your time and have you come down to his office for a few hours for fingerprinting) and only have one of the three things I had planned to get.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 3:23:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2015 3:25:15 PM EST by rzrsedge]
I hate being a young guy with a new family in the gun hobby! (Not entirely, family is awesome!) But it seems everything I ever wanted to buy has gone way up, got banned from import, or like this is about to get much harder. I missed all the good times I guess! I just have to watch it happen helplessly because I can't buy much.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 3:25:43 PM EST
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Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
I hate being a young guy with a new family in the gun hobby! (Not entirely, family is awesome!) But it seems everything I ever wanted to buy has gone way up, got banned from import, or like this is about to get much harder. I missed all the good times I guess!
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Right now is the best you will ever see it. Best thing to do is stock up on bargain mags, and such.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 3:27:32 PM EST
Can you have a 1 person trust? i.e. nobody I know cares about any of this and certainly won't want to go chase down CLEO sign off.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 3:31:27 PM EST
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Originally Posted By netstorm:
Right now is the best you will ever see it. Best thing to do is stock up on bargain mags, and such.
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Originally Posted By netstorm:
Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
I hate being a young guy with a new family in the gun hobby! (Not entirely, family is awesome!) But it seems everything I ever wanted to buy has gone way up, got banned from import, or like this is about to get much harder. I missed all the good times I guess!
Right now is the best you will ever see it. Best thing to do is stock up on bargain mags, and such.

Salad days for mags, lowers, and forms 1 and 4 on trusts.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 3:34:54 PM EST
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Originally Posted By xerxes2695:
Can you have a 1 person trust? i.e. nobody I know cares about any of this and certainly won't want to go chase down CLEO sign off.
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No. Legal and beneficial interests must be separate. If you truly have no one, I guess you could name a charity to be your beneficiary. Like maybe the Brady Campaign
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 3:36:35 PM EST
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Originally Posted By LibertyUberAlles:

Salad days for mags, lowers, and forms 1 and 4 on trusts.
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Originally Posted By LibertyUberAlles:
Originally Posted By netstorm:
Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
I hate being a young guy with a new family in the gun hobby! (Not entirely, family is awesome!) But it seems everything I ever wanted to buy has gone way up, got banned from import, or like this is about to get much harder. I missed all the good times I guess!
Right now is the best you will ever see it. Best thing to do is stock up on bargain mags, and such.

Salad days for mags, lowers, and forms 1 and 4 on trusts.
There is that, but I wanted a Saiga12,, mauser, luger, garand, etc growing up and they all shot up in price. Things like that. I've always bought more guns rather than a bunch of magazines for one.
Link Posted: 1/20/2015 3:37:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2015 3:39:52 PM EST by vagrenadeer]
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Originally Posted By xerxes2695:
Can you have a 1 person trust? i.e. nobody I know cares about any of this and certainly won't want to go chase down CLEO sign off.
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before the rules change, you don't have to chase down CLEO to sign off with a trust (and thus the appeal in localities with CLEOs who won't sign off on such)...but you do need moar trustees if I understand this thing correctly.
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 8:21:39 AM EST
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Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:


If they actually make those changes, it will be on every form 1 or 4 you fill out. No time like the present to form 1 a half a dozen suppressors. Nothing says you have to actually construct them right away, after all.
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Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:
Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
Well I am somewhat tight on money until after harvest in June but I wondered if I should get the trust set up now and buy my first suppressor. Will these changes mean doing all that for every purchase or just the first time using the trust?


If they actually make those changes, it will be on every form 1 or 4 you fill out. No time like the present to form 1 a half a dozen suppressors. Nothing says you have to actually construct them right away, after all.


Hope you don't mind if a pop in here with a related question OP-
RocketmanOU talks about submitting the Form 1 before the suppressor is "constructed" but I don't guess there is any way to treat a Form 4 like that?
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 8:24:53 AM EST
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Originally Posted By acarpenter:


Hope you don't mind if a pop in here with a related question OP-
RocketmanOU talks about submitting the Form 1 before the suppressor is "constructed" but I don't guess there is any way to treat a Form 4 like that?
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Originally Posted By acarpenter:
Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:
Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
Well I am somewhat tight on money until after harvest in June but I wondered if I should get the trust set up now and buy my first suppressor. Will these changes mean doing all that for every purchase or just the first time using the trust?


If they actually make those changes, it will be on every form 1 or 4 you fill out. No time like the present to form 1 a half a dozen suppressors. Nothing says you have to actually construct them right away, after all.


Hope you don't mind if a pop in here with a related question OP-
RocketmanOU talks about submitting the Form 1 before the suppressor is "constructed" but I don't guess there is any way to treat a Form 4 like that?
Obviously I'm no expert but from my understanding I'm going to say no, as far as I know it's like a 4473 in that it's item and serial # specific.
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 8:39:12 AM EST
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Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
Obviously I'm no expert but from my understanding I'm going to say no, as far as I know it's like a 4473 in that it's item and serial # specific.
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Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
Originally Posted By acarpenter:
Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:
Originally Posted By rzrsedge:
Well I am somewhat tight on money until after harvest in June but I wondered if I should get the trust set up now and buy my first suppressor. Will these changes mean doing all that for every purchase or just the first time using the trust?


If they actually make those changes, it will be on every form 1 or 4 you fill out. No time like the present to form 1 a half a dozen suppressors. Nothing says you have to actually construct them right away, after all.


Hope you don't mind if a pop in here with a related question OP-
RocketmanOU talks about submitting the Form 1 before the suppressor is "constructed" but I don't guess there is any way to treat a Form 4 like that?
Obviously I'm no expert but from my understanding I'm going to say no, as far as I know it's like a 4473 in that it's item and serial # specific.


Gotcha- I just read something that kind of implied the same thing. Good luck on your (hopeful) purchase!
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