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Posted: 10/13/2004 6:24:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 7:06:16 AM EST by Breacher]
I need help.

I used to be able to work on cars.

Computers and fuel injection changed all of that.

I have a 1995 or 1996 Bonneville (so pissed right now that I can't remember which right now)

3800 series V-6, engine rebuilt within the last couple of years but car has 184,000 miles on it.

car stalls on my wife on a regular basis.

Have replaced the following items:

fuel pump ( a real bitch to drop tank by myself)
fuel pump screen
fuel filter
spark plugs
Ignition control module (the plate under the coil packs)
EGR valve
Air cleaner is fine
oil has been changed last week

the car will start up fine from a cold start and run. Once the vehicle has been run and turned off for a while (stopping to get groceries, haircut etc.) it refuses to start up again. Engine turns over fine, just refuses to catch. Any ideas what might be causing the problem? Am I looking at replacing the fuel pressure regulator and/or injectors? Could the injectors be leaking fuel into the cylinders after being turned off and causing the vehicle to flood out? If it helps, I get a strong smell of fuel from the exhaust pile while the wife was cranking over the car when it wouldn't start.

Does this car have a rev limiter? When I finally got it running (just to get stranded accross town) it starts to cut out above 45oo RPM'S.

Any help (besides shooting the car full of 45 cal holes or using Tannerite)would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Karl
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:56:08 AM EST
My dad's Explorer is doing the same thing as your Bonneville. We've pretty much determined the problem to be a bad intake manifold gasket that allows fuel/oil/and coolant to get into cylinder 5. If it starts to cut out around 4500 rpm that could mean it's not getting enough air to properly combust in that range. Just a thought. Also, you might check the MAF (mass air flow) sensor, if it's bad then it can cause a lot of problems. When in doubt, use a .50 BMG, more bang for the buck! MJD
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 6:56:35 AM EST
Did you scan it for codes???

Most likely Camshaft Sensor....pretty common on the 3800's...happened to me twice.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:04:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By leadnbrass:
Did you scan it for codes???

Most likely Camshaft Sensor....pretty common on the 3800's...happened to me twice.



+1 Get one of those scanners from any autoparts chain. Even if the car won't start, it has memory of the problem
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 7:05:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/13/2004 7:07:35 AM EST by Breacher]
I'll check the MAF when i get my mechanic friend over here tonight.

it has been scanned for codes by the same friend. Had two codes, one for the Ignition control module (the plate under the coil packs) and the EGR valve possibly stuck open. Both parts have been replaced. I was wondering about the crank sensor as well. Will that sensor show up during a scan?

Thanks for the help guys

Karl
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:47:37 AM EST
Could also be the temperature (coolant) sensor?

Did you check the fuel pressure before replacing the fuel pump? I have a really good local shop which is expensive but for about $120 they will figure out what has to be replaced (and then I can do it myself for the easier stuff).

I'd love to find a web forum for owners of 3.8L GM vehicles.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:48:55 AM EST
There is another option you may not have considered: artificial reef.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:50:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Breacher:
I'll check the MAF when i get my mechanic friend over here tonight.

it has been scanned for codes by the same friend. Had two codes, one for the Ignition control module (the plate under the coil packs) and the EGR valve possibly stuck open. Both parts have been replaced. I was wondering about the crank sensor as well. Will that sensor show up during a scan?



See if you still have an EGR code. Sometimes the passages around the EGR get totally clogged up and need a cleaning. As others have said I always suspect the MAF on the 3.8--I need to get my LeSabre checked out.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 9:51:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 10:01:12 AM EST
My wifes Grand Cherokee (also a 1996) did the same thing last year. Would drive fine all day, but would not restart at random times. No codes.

Started the 'change everything that one can change' exercise on the engine. (ie battery, plugs, plug cables, fuel filter, crankshaft position sensor, checked injector rail pressure)

It stopped the week I replaced the Ignition Coil.
So my guess... Ignition Coil... as it warmed up it failed. Complete speculation though. Was cheap and very easy to replace. No problems for the past 12 months.
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 10:13:39 AM EST
If it's a 1995 model put an E.C.M. in it. GM #16183247
We had a ton of ECM trouble in 1994-1995.

HTH
Flaco
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 2:46:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Flaco:
If it's a 1995 model put an E.C.M. in it. GM #16183247
We had a ton of ECM trouble in 1994-1995.

HTH
Flaco


ECM = expensive computer?

thanks,
Karl
Link Posted: 10/13/2004 5:51:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By Breacher:

Originally Posted By Flaco:
If it's a 1995 model put an E.C.M. in it. GM #16183247
We had a ton of ECM trouble in 1994-1995.

HTH
Flaco


ECM = expensive computer?

thanks,
Karl



Not necessarily. There are some pretty good discount GM parts dealers on the web. I'll try to look a couple of them up tomorrow.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 10:29:04 PM EST
Just got through replacing the crank sensor this evening after a friend finally showed up with a scanner that showed that fault coming up continuously. Whoever decided that it would be a good idea to mount the damn engine sideways should be seriously fucked up with a baseball bat. Pulling the front right tire off to get to the harmonic balancer off after taking off some othe assorted fender parts is a comletely assenine set-up. Also not putting threaded holes in the balancer so I could use the balancer puller that I had is stupid. Had to send the wife to the local Auto Zone to get a 3 prong puller that was a pain in the ass to use. Anyway I will be getting some test drives in tomorrow to see if the problem is fixed.

Thanks for the assistance from everyone,
Karl
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 10:34:38 PM EST
Try a 3-4 bottle charge of Tannerite on the cam covers. Worked wonders on mine.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 10:43:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2004 10:58:29 PM EST by chrome1]

Originally Posted By Breacher:

I need help.




I'd be willing to bet money that the fuel pressure regulator is leaking
fuel into the vacuum line .

Warm the engine up and pull off the vacuum line to the FP reg and watch for it to spit
gasoline out of the nipple , it may take a min or so . The Regulator isnt cheap
but it's easily replacable and is a common failure on 3800's of that vintage .
The main symptom is a hard/No start when warm .

And yes it has a rev limiter that kicks in at 4300-4600 RPM out of gear .
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 10:46:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
There is another option you may not have considered: artificial reef.

i like it.

working on 'modern' cars...i'm surprised we've only shot ONE of mine at bulletfest.



More for next year..
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 10:47:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:
Try a 3-4 bottle charge of Tannerite on the cam covers. Worked wonders on mine.



might end up going that route.

By the way, since your avitar is from the dark towers, have you finished that last book yet?
Couldn't put it down until I was finished. Good read and the ending was something I wasn't suspecting.

Karl
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 10:56:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/21/2004 11:02:26 PM EST by chrome1]
Never mind .......... I should read all the responses first
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 11:34:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By Breacher:

Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:
Try a 3-4 bottle charge of Tannerite on the cam covers. Worked wonders on mine.



might end up going that route.

By the way, since your avitar is from the dark towers, have you finished that last book yet?
Couldn't put it down until I was finished. Good read and the ending was something I wasn't suspecting.

Karl



Of course I finished it! I had the book in my mitts as soon as it came out. Then did nothing but read it until I was finished. I am sad that the story is finished and for Roland's fate. But, that's ka.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 11:41:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By Breacher:
Just got through replacing the crank sensor this evening after a friend finally showed up with a scanner that showed that fault coming up continuously. Whoever decided that it would be a good idea to mount the damn engine sideways should be seriously fucked up with a baseball bat.
Karl



The joys of front wheel drive.
Link Posted: 10/21/2004 11:57:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By RAINBOW6:

Originally Posted By Breacher:
Just got through replacing the crank sensor this evening after a friend finally showed up with a scanner that showed that fault coming up continuously. Whoever decided that it would be a good idea to mount the damn engine sideways should be seriously fucked up with a baseball bat.
Karl



The joys of front wheel drive.



Hell , I can think of a half a dozen vehicles with conventionally mounted engines .
That if you opened the hood and tossed in a handful of BB's ........ None would
make it to the ground . Not to even mention Custom Van's
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 12:06:34 AM EST
tannerite.. and lots of it.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 12:20:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By Breacher:
I need help.

I used to be able to work on cars.

Computers and fuel injection changed all of that.

I have a 1995 or 1996 Bonneville (so pissed right now that I can't remember which right now)

3800 series V-6, engine rebuilt within the last couple of years but car has 184,000 miles on it.

car stalls on my wife on a regular basis.

Have replaced the following items:

fuel pump ( a real bitch to drop tank by myself)
fuel pump screen
fuel filter
spark plugs
Ignition control module (the plate under the coil packs)
EGR valve
Air cleaner is fine
oil has been changed last week

the car will start up fine from a cold start and run. Once the vehicle has been run and turned off for a while (stopping to get groceries, haircut etc.) it refuses to start up again. Engine turns over fine, just refuses to catch. Any ideas what might be causing the problem? Am I looking at replacing the fuel pressure regulator and/or injectors? Could the injectors be leaking fuel into the cylinders after being turned off and causing the vehicle to flood out? If it helps, I get a strong smell of fuel from the exhaust pile while the wife was cranking over the car when it wouldn't start.

Does this car have a rev limiter? When I finally got it running (just to get stranded accross town) it starts to cut out above 45oo RPM'S.

Any help (besides shooting the car full of 45 cal holes or using Tannerite)would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Karl



Test the ignition coil packs, sounds like that may be too weak to fire above 4500rpm. Most GMs should have them replaced when the ignition control module is replaced. Also on the newer ORBII smog controls, whenever a electronic part is changed you must make the system 'see' the new part so it can learn the operating parameters of the new stuff. To do this all you have to do is disconnect the vehicles battery for about 20 minutes, this puts it back into a learning mode. I forgot one time on my old car and removed the throttle body and cleaned it out real good and put it back on and started it up and it shot up to 2700rpm and would rev by itself from 2700rpm to 3300rpm on its own. Stumped me for a few minutes until I figured it out.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 2:59:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By Breacher:
I need help.

I used to be able to work on cars.

Computers and fuel injection changed all of that.

I have a 1995 or 1996 Bonneville (so pissed right now that I can't remember which right now)

3800 series V-6, engine rebuilt within the last couple of years but car has 184,000 miles on it.

car stalls on my wife on a regular basis.

Have replaced the following items:

fuel pump ( a real bitch to drop tank by myself)
fuel pump screen
fuel filter
spark plugs
Ignition control module (the plate under the coil packs)
EGR valve
Air cleaner is fine
oil has been changed last week

the car will start up fine from a cold start and run. Once the vehicle has been run and turned off for a while (stopping to get groceries, haircut etc.) it refuses to start up again. Engine turns over fine, just refuses to catch. Any ideas what might be causing the problem? Am I looking at replacing the fuel pressure regulator and/or injectors? Could the injectors be leaking fuel into the cylinders after being turned off and causing the vehicle to flood out? If it helps, I get a strong smell of fuel from the exhaust pile while the wife was cranking over the car when it wouldn't start.

Does this car have a rev limiter? When I finally got it running (just to get stranded accross town) it starts to cut out above 45oo RPM'S.

Any help (besides shooting the car full of 45 cal holes or using Tannerite)would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Karl



Had the exact problem on a 1993 Bonneville. Never did find the problem. I changed nearly every electronic component on the engine. Two times I took it to the dealer and they never found it. Computer, fuel pump, fuel filter, intake air temp sensor, cam position sensor, ignition module. I finally gave it in trade for my current car. If I took a hose to the front passenger side of the engine and cooled it off it would almost always start again but I never got it solved. My next step would have been to replace the entire wire harness forward of the firewall. I did not change the oxygen sensor. Planerench out.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 3:21:02 AM EST
Starts fine when cold
problems starting when hot

sounds like it might be a bad coolant temp sensor. maybe stuck reading cold all the time this will overfuel a hot engine causing hard hot starting(flooding) missing and maybe even stalling.

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