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Posted: 9/10/2013 9:08:46 AM EDT
Vote for TWO: Penalty/No Penalty and Too Harsh/Not Harsh Enough or Other and explain.

I've been watching racing for 20yrs.  To me, the 55 being told to pit to get the 56 in the chase is just team strategy not cheating.  Now, the 15 "spinning due to a blown tire" or "arms tired" is bullshit and is worthy of the penalty.  Also, I don't quite get all the hoopla over 12th in points, it's well known only the top 5 or 6 cars have a legit chance at the championship.  Is NASCAR serious with the penalty or is it just for show?

Remember a few seasons ago, Bowyer (in the 07, RCR) was penalized and his chase Kansas win was taken from him when his car failed post-race inspection, the rear bumper cover was out by 1/16" and didn't fit the template.  I don't see any competitive advantage in that and thought the penalty was bullshit because it ended his chase on race 1.  Does NASCAR have a hard on for Clint or did he really fuck up?  I think he turned it around intentionally, tire wasn't down until he was already around, and that move was cheap.

I don't care who gets the wildcard spot, I'm in 4th(KH, 29).  What say the hive?  Poll inbound.

For reference, I've never liked the new points system, fuck "The Chase".  Thats not the point of points racing, the point is to see who is the most consistent and has good finishes for 35 weeks.  Winning a few races but having no consistency shouldn't be enough to be a championship, checkers or wreckers looks cool on tv but ain't championship material.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:11:28 AM EDT
Yes.
I was there.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:12:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2013 9:13:16 AM EDT by Johnny_Rebo]
Pole?
Isn't the first time, but apparently they want to stop it from happening again...
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:13:49 AM EDT
Yep they took a shot and got busted.  Happens all the time in auto racing.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:15:04 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By AMZ:
Yes.
I was there.
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What was the reaction at the track?  Can't see that on TV.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:18:54 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Pokernut:
Yep they took a shot and got busted.  Happens all the time in auto racing.
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Yeah, im not naive, everyone is cheating one way or another every week, its just who gets caught.  Hell, look at the 48.  He cheats every weekend, sometimes they catch him, most of the time they don't.  The 20 too.  Sportscenter is making a big deal out of this, thought I would poll the hive.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:21:43 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:
Yeah, im not naive, everyone is cheating one way or another every week, its just who gets caught.  Hell, look at the 48.  He cheats every weekend, sometimes they catch him, most of the time they don't.  The 20 too.  Sportscenter is making a big deal out of this, thought I would poll the hive.
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Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:



Originally Posted By Pokernut:

Yep they took a shot and got busted.  Happens all the time in auto racing.




Yeah, im not naive, everyone is cheating one way or another every week, its just who gets caught.  Hell, look at the 48.  He cheats every weekend, sometimes they catch him, most of the time they don't.  The 20 too.  Sportscenter is making a big deal out of this, thought I would poll the hive.
theres a HUGE difference between using controversial parts and the like and a race stoppage due to a purposeful spin.  hell, mikey even got got at daytona with stuff in his intake that was straight up banned.  thats cheating and against the word and spirit of the rules.



 
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:22:44 AM EDT
Team strategy is one thing.   As in allowing yourself to be passed and/or allowing a teammate to pass you easily to pick up positions.   Purposely wrecking your car on an active race track(no matter how safe you planned it out) is probably not such a smart plan.

NASCAR has changed in recent years.   The late Dale Earnhart was known for bumping others out of the way and even earned a respectable nickname.  Doing that today typically get's one penalized.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:22:44 AM EDT
I don't consider retarded pit strategies to be cheating.  

I think that deliberately spinning yourself out is, though.  This can wreck or otherwise interfere with other drivers, plus the "Lucky Dog" rule puts the top lapped driver back on the lead lap.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:25:02 AM EDT
Of course they were trying to manipulate the outcome of the race, and yes they got caught.
If it didn't have immediate Chase implications (and BIG $) I doubt there'd be all this hoopla.  As others have said, this is hardly the first time a team has taken deliberate action to manipulate a race.  All of motorsports for that matter.  F1 and NHRA come to mind.

I don't think the dominoes have yet begun to fall.  NAPA is steamin' mad, and they're a big gorilla in the room.  I'm surprised we haven't yet heard from Rick Hendrick, as the #24 really got screwed as a result of MWR's shenanigans (the #22 got in, bumping the #24 out)

This will get fugly
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:26:10 AM EDT
Spin was intentional & they got caught....
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:34:15 AM EDT
I can't remember the last time nascar handed out a thumping on a Monday (penalties are usually announced mid-week following a race weekend).  They were very quick to respond this time around, for obvious (chase) reasons.  Even still, they usually investigate/debate this stuff internally for much longer before making a decision
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:40:15 AM EDT
Right, but im kinda surprised that they didn't comment or review Carl jumping the restart, and Brad Kedouchebag jumping the start by alot in the Nationwide race Fri.  I just saw Clint on ESPN backpedaling and deflecting questions about what he did.  I have to say I have lost some respect for Clint over this, if you're gonna cheat don't be so damn obvious about it.  I can only imagine how pissed Hendrick and Jeff are, Clint just mentioned "payback" in reference to the 24.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:41:44 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:
Right, but im kinda surprised that they didn't comment or review Carl jumping the restart, and Brad Kedouchebag jumping the start by alot in the Nationwide race Fri.  I just saw Clint on ESPN backpedaling and deflecting questions about what he did.  I have to say I have lost some respect for Clint over this, if you're gonna cheat don't be so damn obvious about it.  I can only imagine how pissed Hendrick and Jeff are, Clint just mentioned "payback" in reference to the 24.
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All excellent points.  That entire race weekend was a disaster for nascar's PR department
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:46:58 AM EDT
Ty Norris (MWR's exec VP) may be out of a job for quite a while, if he ever gets back into nascar's good graces.  He's in a world of shit, as it seems he made all the questionable decisions.  Or, at least he's taking the fall.  Michael has already thrown him under the bus, while still saying that he 'stands behind his people'

Fugged up situation, top to bottom.  I'm pissed
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 9:58:02 AM EDT
I voted penalty , and pie.  



Glad Jr. didn't get taken out by the spin.    







Pretty muck a dick move.  




I thought Clint was kinda a cool dude.  Well, that has changed.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:00:38 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:


What was the reaction at the track?  Can't see that on TV.
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Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:
Originally Posted By AMZ:
Yes.
I was there.


What was the reaction at the track?  Can't see that on TV.


Everyone using a scanner knew what happened and why. Try explaining that to my12 year old son, a Gordon fan.

Thats the second time I have witnessed Boyer screw up an entire race. [last year at Martinsville]
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:02:55 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:
Right, but im kinda surprised that they didn't comment or review Carl jumping the restart, and Brad Kedouchebag jumping the start by alot in the Nationwide race Fri.  I just saw Clint on ESPN backpedaling and deflecting questions about what he did.  I have to say I have lost some respect for Clint over this, if you're gonna cheat don't be so damn obvious about it.  I can only imagine how pissed Hendrick and Jeff are, Clint just mentioned "payback" in reference to the 24.
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Menard forced contact with Edwards on the restart.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:04:09 AM EDT
it's nascar, who really gives a shit?
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:05:38 AM EDT
I didn't know people still watched that??

Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:10:22 AM EDT
Contact or not, unless the leader blows the tires off, the second place car cannot beat the leader to the line.  If he does, he has to give the position back.  He didn't.  Go look at the replay.  That one wasn't as bad as Brads restart, he took off in the middle of 3/4 well ahead of the restart marks.  Rulebook says a reasonable distance, I don't call 15 carlengths reasonable.  He stole that race from Brian Scott.  This past weekend was a cheat fest.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:13:13 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By woodbutcher223308:
I voted penalty , and pie.  

Glad Jr. didn't get taken out by the spin.    


Pretty muck a dick move.  

I thought Clint was kinda a cool dude.  Well, that has changed.
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Agree Dick move and got caught .
Bowyer should be made to sit out a few races IMO
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:14:08 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:
Contact or not, unless the leader blows the tires off, the second place car cannot beat the leader to the line.  If he does, he has to give the position back.  He didn't.  Go look at the replay.  That one wasn't as bad as Brads restart, he took off in the middle of 3/4 well ahead of the restart marks.  Rulebook says a reasonable distance, I don't call 15 carlengths reasonable.  He stole that race from Brian Scott.  This past weekend was a cheat fest.
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Right , but the contact and forcing Edwards to either -the outsidewall -or -get outta the way-, was why NASCAR let it go. Remember he had 40 cars behind him, 10 of them more desperate than usual.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:16:43 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:
Contact or not, unless the leader blows the tires off, the second place car cannot beat the leader to the line.  If he does, he has to give the position back.  He didn't.  Go look at the replay.  That one wasn't as bad as Brads restart, he took off in the middle of 3/4 well ahead of the restart marks.  Rulebook says a reasonable distance, I don't call 15 carlengths reasonable.  He stole that race from Brian Scott.  This past weekend was a cheat fest.
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And I do agree on the BK jump fridaynight, the incar camera and sound from behind REALLY gave a good view of that one.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:21:39 AM EDT
Michael Waltrip has been caught cheating before, even though a pit stop does not seem like a big deal to me.  I didn't, at first, believe that Clint Boyer spun on purpose as his right front was flat after the spin and another car previous had spun out with the same problem, a flat right front.  The heavy braking was heating up the wheels so much the tire beads were melting, deflating the tire.  However, the way Clint reacted during the interview does look like he is hiding something and with other things MWR did, maybe Boyer did spin on purpose.

I believe the reason NASCAR levied such a fine is not only because of cheating with the pit action but possibly as a result of the spin also, even though they did not cite that.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:29:37 AM EDT
If you watch the replay of Clints spin, the tire doesn't go until he's almost stopped.  The intentional pitting of the 55 is team strategy, I don't think thats penalty worthy, an owner or gm can do whatever they want with their cars as long as its not on the track in the racing lanes.  It was obvious Clint turned the car on purpose.  Interested to see Jeff Gordon and Big Hs reaction to Clints payback comment.  That might result in fists flying, I would if that was directed at me.  Thats low down.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:45:47 AM EDT
NASCAR is losing viewers and fans. Economy, dull whatever the reason. They have ot do what they can to protect what branding they have left. If they let it go as no big deal, they'll lose more. Penalty should have tossed MWR from any chase for the championship.

I'll laugh when Gordon picks em off and sends each one into the wall, just cuz. But he probably won't, so
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 10:54:06 AM EDT
That would have been a perfect race for Brian Scott....  1000th Nationwide race, he won the pole, led every single lap, and then BK jumped the restart, and NASCAR didn't say shit.

Terrible.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:16:25 AM EDT
this was my last straw,  I will watch WWF for fixed sports from now on,,,,
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:18:13 AM EDT
This restart shit is getting out of hand.

I feel horrible for Gordon.  I hope he wrecks Clint every week for this.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:19:56 AM EDT
Look at the stands during the televised races.  Sometimes they are nearly half empty now, even Bristol can't fill the seats anymore.  NASCAR, for whatever reason, is dropping in popularity.  At least for track attendance.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:22:34 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By AMZ:


Menard forced contact with Edwards on the restart.
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Originally Posted By AMZ:
Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:
Right, but im kinda surprised that they didn't comment or review Carl jumping the restart, and Brad Kedouchebag jumping the start by alot in the Nationwide race Fri.  I just saw Clint on ESPN backpedaling and deflecting questions about what he did.  I have to say I have lost some respect for Clint over this, if you're gonna cheat don't be so damn obvious about it.  I can only imagine how pissed Hendrick and Jeff are, Clint just mentioned "payback" in reference to the 24.


Menard forced contact with Edwards on the restart.


So that made him jump the start?
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:26:22 AM EDT
NASCAR is full of conflicts of interest.  No other "sport" would allow what goes on in NASCAR.  Quite frankly, teams should not be allowed and drivers should not be allowed to own other teams.  Dale Earnhart killed himself trying to block the field so that cars he owned could win the Daytona 500.  How is this even allowed?  I figure that Vince MacMahon will probably buy NASCAR and merge it into WWF.  His writers could probably script some amazing race scenarios.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:35:01 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Guntoter:
Look at the stands during the televised races.  Sometimes they are nearly half empty now, even Bristol can't fill the seats anymore.  NASCAR, for whatever reason, is dropping in popularity.  At least for track attendance.
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Aint that the truth.  I haven't seen the numbers, but it didn't look to me like more than 10,000 for the Nationwide race IF that.  They just had one small section of seating open.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:35:20 AM EDT
NASCRAP is the motorhead division of the WWF.

Scripted trailer trash soap opera bullshit.

NASCAR died with Davey.

Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:36:14 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Guntoter:
Look at the stands during the televised races.  Sometimes they are nearly half empty now, even Bristol can't fill the seats anymore.  NASCAR, for whatever reason, is dropping in popularity.  At least for track attendance.
View Quote



Some of that is economy driven just like many other sports.  People can't afford or don't want to attend.    I agree NASCAR though has lost a lot of it's shine.  The 90's and into the early 2000's were killer.   In my opinion Jeff Gordon and all his wins drove NASCAR back then.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 11:36:29 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By Guntoter:


Look at the stands during the televised races.  Sometimes they are nearly half empty now, even Bristol can't fill the seats anymore.  NASCAR, for whatever reason, is dropping in popularity.  At least for track attendance.
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you must remember that about 25%-33% of the Nations workers are still unemployed or underemployed

 
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 12:13:04 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Badass03:


So that made him jump the start?
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Originally Posted By Badass03:
Originally Posted By AMZ:
Originally Posted By mech4matsnova:
Right, but im kinda surprised that they didn't comment or review Carl jumping the restart, and Brad Kedouchebag jumping the start by alot in the Nationwide race Fri.  I just saw Clint on ESPN backpedaling and deflecting questions about what he did.  I have to say I have lost some respect for Clint over this, if you're gonna cheat don't be so damn obvious about it.  I can only imagine how pissed Hendrick and Jeff are, Clint just mentioned "payback" in reference to the 24.


Menard forced contact with Edwards on the restart.


So that made him jump the start?


Yes, contact or not he can't beat the leader to the line, its in the rulebook.  Judging by this weekend though, I don't think that matters all that much.  Even the analysts commented on it.
Link Posted: 9/10/2013 12:17:01 PM EDT
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