There are tons of myths out there about us, but one of my favorites are that women love men that are assholes to them.

    Most myths get started because there are some truth to them.  Some women do like to be treated like crap, humiliated, demeaned, sometimes they even look for men who might get dangerous with them.  It's called a fetish.  Some men like to be treated like crap too, humiliated, demeaned, look for a woman that might get dangerous with them.   The difference is that men are quiet about it.  They go out and pay very discreet women very large amounts of money for the priviledge of being abused.  They can't get it any other way in most cases.  

   With women it's a little different.  They CAN get it easily, they just have to find the right partner.  Their partners are not discreet, and therefore stories get circulated.

I find it fascinating that some men choose to take these stories and use them as excuises for why all women should be treated this way.   ... amazing.


   What are some myths you know of?  I know you've got some.

PS  This is my first topic in this forum... hi !

Hiya gunchyck!  I would certainly have to agree with your above post.  My exes treated me like shit and that's why they are EXes.

My current guy bought my an AR-15 and an ACOG for it for Christmas...he might be a keeper.

Oh yeah, another myth...some guy over in GD was saying something one day about a "chick manual" and how it must be in this chick manual that girls don't take the trash out or some such nonsense.  Around here, if I didn't take the trash out, it probably wouldn't get done.

Hi glockgirl!

The first handgun I ever shot was a glock.  I'm not that into handguns though...  My first gun ever was a 12gauge pump action rifle...  I'm still weak in the knees about it.  It gave me horrific bruises and I used to show them off to people, telling them I went shooting.  I never got bruises like that again, dammit.  I'm still obsessed with pump action though.  Sigh, I guess you never get over your first.

you would really enjoy hanguns you should shoot them more, by the way, a12gauge is not considered a rifle , it is a shotgun AKA...scattergun.

Quoted: you would really enjoy hanguns you should shoot them more, by the way, a12gauge is not considered a rifle , it is a shotgun AKA...scattergun.

shotgun, my bad, I was sleepy when I wrote that.  But scattergun....  I've never heard of that... that sounds low class....

Quoted: shotgun, my bad, I was sleepy when I wrote that.  But scattergun....  I've never heard of that... that sounds low class....

I've got a 12 guage Remington 870 Police model...it beats my shoulder up if I shoot it much too.  I have that type of very fair skin that bruises easily.

Quoted: with long guns you're best off to verify the length of pull and since it will most likely be too long take the SGN to a credible gun smith and have him cut back the stock and install a decent pad on it. overly long stocks increase the perception of recoil and the apparent weight of the firearm. www.skbshotguns.com/images/Stock%20Dimensions.jpg with proper LOP you should be able to seat the butt pad in the crook of your elbow and comfortably rest the index finger of your firing hand on the trigger in a firing grip, usually the first joint. a little shorter than that never hurt.

Hey tweak, you are getting me all hot and bothered with that kind of talk, don't stop, don't stop, right there...  oh yeah.

Just don't tell Phil_in_seattle.

I love this website

Quoted: Quoted: shotgun, my bad, I was sleepy when I wrote that.  But scattergun....  I've never heard of that... that sounds low class.... I've got a 12 guage Remington 870 Police model...it beats my shoulder up if I shoot it much too.  I have that type of very fair skin that bruises easily.

I Have that kind of skin too.  I love those bruises.

Gun Chick and Glockgirl...I beg to differ.  I am a good looking, well rounded, intelligent, make good money guy.  I treat women very well (not too well, I don't like to be taken advantage of) and I get dumped for the "bad boy" all the time.  Most often, the guy isn't as good looking, has no job and treats her like crap.  After a few months of supporting him, I usually get the crying phone call early in the a.m. begging for me to take her back.  Sorry hun, once a cheater, always a cheater.  I won't be a doormat.

The one time I started dating a chick I didn't care about and treated her like crap, she ate it up.  Called and called even when I stood her up repeatedly and gave her lame excuses.  A few years after we broke up I saw her out and took her to dinner and confessed the whole thing.  She was pissed off, but basically agreed with me.

Saying all women are like this is painting with a very broad brush.  I know there are exceptions.  I think it has more to do with age and maturity.  In the 20's to early 30's they want the bad boy rebel.  In the mid 30's and later, they want the good and decent man who can provide for a family.  

Quoted: Quoted: I beg to differ.  I am a good looking, well rounded, intelligent, make good money guy.  I treat women very well (not too well, I don't like to be taken advantage of) and I get dumped for the "bad boy" all the time.  Most often, the guy isn't as good looking, has no job and treats her like crap.  After a few months of supporting him, I usually get the crying phone call early in the a.m. begging for me to take her back.  Sorry hun, once a cheater, always a cheater.  I won't be a doormat. The one time I started dating a chick I didn't care about and treated her like crap, she ate it up.  Called and called even when I stood her up repeatedly and gave her lame excuses.  A few years after we broke up I saw her out and took her to dinner and confessed the whole thing.  She was pissed off, but basically agreed with me. Saying all women are like this is painting with a very broad brush.  I know there are exceptions.  I think it has more to do with age and maturity.  In the 20's to early 30's they want the bad boy rebel.  In the mid 30's and later, they want the good and decent man who can provide for a family. like to butcher the King's english. Oh, and I agree with dv8 in the respect that in my 20's I always went for the rebel type.  When I finally grew up, I wanted a decent guy to settle down with.   Why that was, I don't know.

Only if it is the Burger King's English.  

Quoted: Oh, and I agree with dv8 in the respect that in my 20's I always went for the rebel type.  When I finally grew up, I wanted a decent guy to settle down with.   Why that was, I don't know.

Because you're human.

When I was young, like most men, I was drawn to chaotic, good looking women.

Now, in my mid-thirties, I like a settled down, comfortable in her own skin woman with a decent history behind her.

I'm no longer a slave to my breed instincts, I've realized I'm not on the savannah chasing a brood mare, and I seek a mate based on comfort, security and longevity.

Sadly, some women are scarred, raised poorly, or by habitual poor choice never learn that the attractions of their youth are self-destructive. Some men, too.

gunchyck, look at the guys your friends are attracted to.  I bet that more often than not they're attracted to the jerks.

As an example, I have six great-nephews on my side of the family that are in their late 20's or early 30's.  Two are normal guys with college degrees and have girlfriends every once in a while, but none of the girls seem really interested in them.  Two are what I would consider successful with engineering degrees from very good schools, are very smart, have nice cars, and own a house.  Neither have had a date in years.  I don't understand that.  Two of them, I'm ashamed to admit, are scum and have spent time in jail.  Those two always seem to have multiple girls that are attracted to them.  They seem to have their pick.  One of them is dating a girl that is a VP of a publicly traded company and the other is living with a girl that.  I saw the two of them treating those women like crap at our family Christmas party last night while the four nicer ones were there alone.

Time in prison, lack of a job, lack of an education, lack of manners, lack of clean clothes, and lack of a car all seem like turn-ons to them. I don't understand it at all. Why is that?  It's almost like not having a female that's attracted to them is a compliment.  I just don't understand it.z

Quoted: Gun Chick and Glockgirl...I beg to differ.  I am a good looking, well rounded, intelligent, make good money guy.  I treat women very well (not too well, I don't like to be taken advantage of) and I get dumped for the "bad boy" all the time.  Most often, the guy isn't as good looking, has no job and treats her like crap.  After a few months of supporting him, I usually get the crying phone call early in the a.m. begging for me to take her back.  Sorry hun, once a cheater, always a cheater.  I won't be a doormat. The one time I started dating a chick I didn't care about and treated her like crap, she ate it up.  Called and called even when I stood her up repeatedly and gave her lame excuses.  A few years after we broke up I saw her out and took her to dinner and confessed the whole thing.  She was pissed off, but basically agreed with me. Saying all women are like this is painting with a very broad brush.  I know there are exceptions.  I think it has more to do with age and maturity.  In the 20's to early 30's they want the bad boy rebel.  In the mid 30's and later, they want the good and decent man who can provide for a family.

Ditto. My experience has been the same. Treat a woman with the respect and dignity she deserves, and she'll inevitably dump you for some "bad boy". And she'll most certianly appear back on your doorstep when he's done with her.


Which brings me to another conclusion: Nice guys always get thrown in the friend zone.  WHY???

Quoted: Quoted: Gun Chick and Glockgirl...I beg to differ.  I am a good looking, well rounded, intelligent, make good money guy.  I treat women very well (not too well, I don't like to be taken advantage of) and I get dumped for the "bad boy" all the time.  Most often, the guy isn't as good looking, has no job and treats her like crap.  After a few months of supporting him, I usually get the crying phone call early in the a.m. begging for me to take her back.  Sorry hun, once a cheater, always a cheater.  I won't be a doormat. The one time I started dating a chick I didn't care about and treated her like crap, she ate it up.  Called and called even when I stood her up repeatedly and gave her lame excuses.  A few years after we broke up I saw her out and took her to dinner and confessed the whole thing.  She was pissed off, but basically agreed with me. Saying all women are like this is painting with a very broad brush.  I know there are exceptions.  I think it has more to do with age and maturity.  In the 20's to early 30's they want the bad boy rebel.  In the mid 30's and later, they want the good and decent man who can provide for a family.   Ditto. My experience has been the same. Treat a woman with the respect and dignity she deserves, and she'll inevitably dump you for some "bad boy". And she'll most certianly appear back on your doorstep when he's done with her. Which brings me to another conclusion: Nice guys always get thrown in the friend zone.  WHY???

I do not think we will ever get a strait answer for that question.

Quoted: Quoted: Which brings me to another conclusion: Nice guys always get thrown in the friend zone.  WHY??? I do not think we will ever get a strait answer for that question.

It's as if you have to treat a woman poorly every now and then to keep her interested.

Please, i'd love to find a woman that can prove i'm wrong. But my entire life, it's been the same thing over and over.

Can't women be happy being happy?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Which brings me to another conclusion: Nice guys always get thrown in the friend zone.  WHY??? I do not think we will ever get a strait answer for that question. It's as if you have to treat a woman poorly every now and then to keep her interested. Please, i'd love to find a woman that can prove i'm wrong. But my entire life, it's been the same thing over and over. Can't women be happy being happy?

With some exceptions it's not in their nature.

Quoted: It's as if you have to treat a woman poorly every now and then to keep her interested. Please, i'd love to find a woman that can prove i'm wrong. But my entire life, it's been the same thing over and over. Can't women be happy being happy?

If you were a woman, and complained that over and over every man you'd dated had treated you 1 certain way, how would you expect to be answered for that admission?

If you were giving out the advice, I bet you would claim that it was YOU who were choosing the same, poor mates over and over again, right? Of course you would.

Well, it's no different. We're attracted to 1 type of person (as a rule), and you have been choosing the same woman, over and over, hence your predictably bad experiences.

I have not shared your experience, my girlfriends have not abandoned me for "bad boys", nor am I a "bad boy". I have my own issues with women, but this doesn't happen to be one of them.

So, what do we conclude from this? You're patterning your mates, the same way we all do. So, break that pattern and things will change. It's the same advice you'd give to a woman, so follow it yourself. When the next time some woman "feels right" to you, turn and run and go for one who is good for you even if you don't feel it. Easy enough, if you can change your nature.

For those begging to differ with the initial post in this thread, you know, that self-proclaimed wonderful guy who always gets dumped for seemingly no reason... there IS a reason, and you might consider that a blanket excuse that "all women are <fill in the blank>" is not going to find you that special someone.

Quoted: If you were giving out the advice, I bet you would claim that it was YOU who were choosing the same, poor mates over and over again, right?

I'll be the first to admit that i've had poor choice in women in the past. I learn from my mistakes. I'm also open and honest as to what i want. I don't lead a woman on. That's just not right. Ultimately, that's someone's daughter, sister, etc. Why can't this common courtesy be returned?


I just don't understand why such nice women fall for such dirtball guys.  

(disclaimer, i'm far from perfect. I'm not trying to say im the ideal guy, cause i'm not. and not all women are liek this. jsut some. )

Quoted: I think there's a fine line between being nice and being too nice.  It's one thing to treat a woman well, but another thing to be a doormat.  If you're truly being good to somebody and they pull the 'friends' card, then the reason isn't because you're nice.  It's something else.

Is it too much to ask for honesty? a few times the friend card was pulled, i've asked why? And not once have i gotten a straight answer.

There's nothing wrong with being friends. Nothing at all. But if there's a particular reason why it's not working, it'd be nice to know what that reason is. How can a person improve if they don't know where they went wrong?

Quoted: Quoted: I think there's a fine line between being nice and being too nice.  It's one thing to treat a woman well, but another thing to be a doormat.  If you're truly being good to somebody and they pull the 'friends' card, then the reason isn't because you're nice.  It's something else. Is it too much to ask for honesty? a few times the friend card was pulled, i've asked why? And not once have i gotten a straight answer. There's nothing wrong with being friends. Nothing at all. But if there's a particular reason why it's not working, it'd be nice to know what that reason is. How can a person improve if they don't know where they went wrong?

My advice to you is to start drinking heavily. Quit trying to figure it out.

Quoted: My advice to you is to start drinking heavily. Quit trying to figure it out.

lol...at work at the moment. But it would be quite entertaining if the brass walked in after PT and i was two sheets to the wind.

Certainly wouldn't solve any problems, and would make my life a living hell. But it would definitly be entertaining to be a fly on the wall. lol...

And not once have i gotten a straight answer.

Maybe because they don't know the answer.  Do you always understand completely why you're attracted to certain girls or not?  Can you always explain it and put it into words?  Can you also do it in a way that wouldn't hurt their feelings?  Guys are relatively simple when it comes to attraction.  For women, it seems to be a much more complicated and emotional issue, so it's even more difficult for them to do this.

Maybe asking them much later after they've had time to think about it and time to let wounds heal is the solution for you.z

Quoted: Quoted: My advice to you is to start drinking heavily. Quit trying to figure it out. lol...at work at the moment. But it would be quite entertaining if the brass walked in after PT and i was two sheets to the wind. Certainly wouldn't solve any problems, and would make my life a living hell. But it would definitly be entertaining to be a fly on the wall. lol...

Well, I meant more as a fundamental philosophy change rather than a next five minutes thing- but you're right, that would be fun to watch!

Quoted: Maybe asking them much later after they've had time to think about it and time to let wounds heal is the solution for you.

I wouldn't bother with that, by the time "much later" has come around you should have severed all emotional ties and moved on. Though I guess it did kinda work for John Cusak in "High Fidelity"...

Quoted: Which brings me to another conclusion: Nice guys always get thrown in the friend zone.  WHY???

"I do not think we will ever get a strait answer for that question."


Every single guy I've ever been romantically involved with, started out as my "friend" and evolved from there.  I've remained friendly (or at least civil) with most of them post breakup.  I like knowing my lover is also my friend.

About 5 years ago I wrote a treatise on "the myth of the nice guy".  I'm going to copy it here, but I have to warn you, it's a little harsh, it's meant to be funny in a dark way. That being said, I still agree with the general premise.  I hope it sheds some light.

Pet Peeve:  The Myth of the “NICE GUY”

      I can tell I have just met a complete loser when I hear the words, “I’m a nice guy and nice guys always finish last”.  Usually this is spoken in a random generic getting-to-know-you conversation where we are talking about why we aren’t in committed relationships at this stage of the game.

    The quick translation of that sentence is: “I have an inability to accept any responsibility for actions or inaction that I have taken in a relationship that might’ve caused said relationship to fail.”

      The FACTS:

Girls have to claim some blame for leading guys to think that they can use the "nice guy" line.  Most of the time when a relationship breaks up, the girl is the one breaking it off.  Breaking up with someone is not an easy, pleasant task.  A girl, usually is not going to bring up every awful thing that the guy has ever done to her and throw it in his face at an attempt to hurt him.  Chances are we’ve already done that in an attempt to get grievances out in the open, so we could work things out.  If a girl reaches the break up point, she knows that the grievances have not been and never will be resolved, so there is no need to dredge them up again.  At break up time most girls just want to get it over with.  The less drama the better.  If we can do it without fighting at all, we get a gold star.  

Girls are not stupid.  We know that the boy will be hurt from being rejected, even if it is just his ego.  So we coddle the boy with our little white lies.  “It isn’t you, it’s me.”  Or  “You’re a really nice guy, but…”   “Nice Guy” in a break up scenario can have many meanings.  Some of my “nice guy” meanings have been:

You are an idiot who embarrasses me in public on a regular interval with your inane comments, but with an IQ of 78, you know no better, poor puppy.

You are a potentially violent partner who I don’t want to piss off by breaking up with you, because you might hurt me, so I will say ANYTHING to puff up your ego making you feel good about yourself and blame things on me in an attempt to distract you during my escape.

You are prejudiced, and your comments sometimes disgust me, but I don’t want to listen to you tell me, “I know plenty of black people and THEY don’t have a problem with me,” one more time, or I might have to kill you to make the world a better place.

You are boring.  (I’ve used this one quite a bit)

You are a puppet and have no original thoughts.

You completely lack empathy, which is why you will never understand that a girl might tell you, you are a nice guy and not actually mean it.

You are a simpering jellyfish who lacks even the most rudimentary sense of self-esteem and I’m sick of having to prop you up all the time, but if I told you the truth you might kill yourself and I don’t want you messing up my karma.


There are some truly nice guys out there.  They do exist.  Those guys are not the ones who use the line, “nice guys finish last” as an excuse to why they are not meeting people.  Truly nice guys have no problem finding love.  They don’t need excuses.  They have lovely, size 2 nice-wives with IQ’s of 210 who alternately work as doctors making ground-breaking discoveries in pediatrics that save children’s lives while volunteering for the PTA making cupcakes and winning the chili bake-off.  On the weekends the wives of nice guys are off to Milan to shoot the cover for the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue.  Nice guys are out there.  And they are doing ok.


I told you it was a little dark.

Quoted: Quoted: I can tell I have just met a complete loser there ya go gents, Rule 2, if you have a penis you're always at fault, wrong, and liable.

I take fault later on in the treatise, you should read.  

But, just for shits and giggles, what are the other rules?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can tell I have just met a complete loser there ya go gents, Rule 2, if you have a penis you're always at fault, wrong, and liable. I take fault later on in the treatise, you should read.   But, just for shits and giggles, what are the other rules?

Rule: Women can't give advice to men on dating women.

They have no experience from the necessary point of view.  

I love it when guys act like they are clueless on why a woman breaks up with them. Im sure a lot of times she tried to communicate on some level what her issues were, but either the man...

1) ignores her (he has better things to do - like hang with his buddies, etc)
2) makes her feel like she shouldn't be "feeling" those feelings (men don't like feelings - god forbid you express them) by ridiculing her
or, the best one yet
3) shuts down completely and doesn't communicate at all (explain this one to me please)

I don't know very many woman who wouldn't at least TRY to communicate their issues. I DO know a lot of men who ignore minor issues until they become major issues...

Then they wonder what happened??? Why did she leave me??? When the question should be "Why did she stay for so long..."

Everything happens for a reason....

Quoted: Pet Peeve:  The Myth of the “NICE GUY”

Which would have been cute, had one of your own kind not admitted the truth in page 1:

Quoted: Oh, and I agree with dv8 in the respect that in my 20's I always went for the rebel type. When I finally grew up, I wanted a decent guy to settle down with. Why that was, I don't know.

Quoted:  So we coddle the boy with our little white lies.

And there, ladies and gentlemen, lies the problem.


Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining. Women don't like being lied to. But it's ok to do it to men?

I understand this is the women's forum. If this is the wrong place for me to speak up, but all means i will cease doing so.

but i think i have a valid point. Am i wrong?

Could it be that some women choose the losers because, deep down, they will always feel superior to them?

ladies in this thread i beg to differ...i used to be a softy and way to nice to girls and i got walked all over, and even had my heart ripped out by the girl i thought i would eventually ask to marry me...since entering college i have become more eduacated on how to handle women...it seems the worse i treat or more i neglect girls i show interest in after meeting them, the more they call me and want to go out..im not saying that its right, but right now it seems right..eventually im gonna meet that 1 girl that i fall all over and would do absolutley anything for, put under her magical spell, and hopefully marry her...giving her everything she could possibly want or need..by the way, ladies, have i told you that yall are looking exceptionally beautiful tonite

Quoted: Quoted:  So we coddle the boy with our little white lies. And there, ladies and gentlemen, lies the problem. Don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining. Women don't like being lied to. But it's ok to do it to men? I understand this is the women's forum. If this is the wrong place for me to speak up, but all means i will cease doing so. but i think i have a valid point. Am i wrong?

I wouldn't think you speaking up here is the wrong place at all.  I certainly welcome it.

The white "nice guy" lies we tell during a break up are a way to be polite and not get into pointless arguements.  It is already over, we are just trying to make it painless.

  If you have a one night stand with a girl, and it ain't great, you are not going to sit her down and tell her... "you know, you could've done...  better if only you had...".  It's over, you say, "We should hang out again sometime" and you move on your way...

A woman saying, "You're a nice guy, but..."  should be seen, by any man with half a brain, as what it is.  A girl trying soften the blow when breaking up.

This is MUCH different than a guy who lies to hide his misdeeds and is trying to keep the relationship going through deceit.

Quoted: I love it when guys act like they are clueless on why a woman breaks up with them. Im sure a lot of times she tried to communicate on some level what her issues were, but either the man... 1) ignores her (he has better things to do - like hang with his buddies, etc) 2) makes her feel like she shouldn't be "feeling" those feelings (men don't like feelings - god forbid you express them) by ridiculing her or, the best one yet 3) shuts down completely and doesn't communicate at all (explain this one to me please) I don't know very many woman who wouldn't at least TRY to communicate their issues. I DO know a lot of men who ignore minor issues until they become major issues... Then they wonder what happened??? Why did she leave me??? When the question should be "Why did she stay for so long..." Everything happens for a reason....

+1  and a big AMEN

Quoted: Quoted: what are the other rules? that information is encoded in the Y chromosome, NGA.

The y chromosome is just an ex chromosome where one of the extremities has broken off.  Boys are just girls that have been broken.

Quoted: Could it be that some women choose the losers because, deep down, they will always feel superior to them?

I think that this is definately true for some women.


ETA true for some men too, now that I think about it.

This could be a real interesting thread without the CoC.

Quoted: This could be a real interesting thread without the CoC.

Nothing says that you can't disagree, you just can't call me the "c" word while doing it.  If you have a hard time with THAT...  then you probably shouldn't read, let alone post, in the women's forum.

Quoted: ladies in this thread i beg to differ...i used to be a softy and way to nice to girls and i got walked all over, and even had my heart ripped out by the girl i thought i would eventually ask to marry me...since entering college i have become more eduacated on how to handle women...it seems the worse i treat or more i neglect girls i show interest in after meeting them, the more they call me and want to go out..im not saying that its right, but right now it seems right..eventually im gonna meet that 1 girl that i fall all over and would do absolutley anything for, put under her magical spell, and hopefully marry her...giving her everything she could possibly want or need..by the way, ladies, have i told you that yall are looking exceptionally beautiful tonite

Don't be surprized when you reap what you sow.

Well, I must have been the exception. I always went for the nice guys. I was 23 when I met and married my husband. Maybe it was because we were both military. My husband was 20 at the time also. If he had been or remotely resembled a JERK I would not have even given him a second look. We have been married 22 years, and I wouldn't change a thing. I also didn't think I could change him etc.

Quoted:  There are tons of myths out there about us, but one of my favorites are that women love men that are assholes to them.

I was just thinking to my self the other day:

"I can't wait to find me another asshole to complete my shitty life!!"

NOT!

There are just as many men out there that get involved with women that are the "bad girls" and wonder why they are getting shit on.  Sometimes you think your with a good person, but your getting played, and you won't know it until they say, I win, you lose.

In all the enlightening threads I have read over the past 10 months, I have discovered that men are just women with bigger sexual appedages that work better and quicker.

Some people are just stupid.  That is not a myth.  

Quoted: Quoted: I love it when guys act like they are clueless on why a woman breaks up with them. Im sure a lot of times she tried to communicate on some level what her issues were, but either the man... 1) ignores her (he has better things to do - like hang with his buddies, etc) 2) makes her feel like she shouldn't be "feeling" those feelings (men don't like feelings - god forbid you express them) by ridiculing her or, the best one yet 3) shuts down completely and doesn't communicate at all (explain this one to me please) I don't know very many woman who wouldn't at least TRY to communicate their issues. I DO know a lot of men who ignore minor issues until they become major issues... Then they wonder what happened??? Why did she leave me??? When the question should be "Why did she stay for so long..." Everything happens for a reason.... +1  and a big AMEN

+2 and a big HELL YEAH!  Sig Ziggy hit a major bull's eye with this post.

Edited to add:  Oh yeah, that's when the guy will ask if they can talk about it...when the girl is fed up with trying to talk about it, has been trying to get him to talk about it for months or years, and gave up.  Then and only when she's ready to walk, will the guy say, "Can't we talk about it?"