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Posted: 3/13/2002 3:18:06 PM EDT
I was just thinking of this so correct me of I am wrong. Not trying to start a flame war here, just wanted to get your opinion about this. In the past few or maybe all of the incidents that involved the use of SAWs and other semi-automatic weapons against unarmed civilians, the perpetrators have either committed suicide or turned them selves in with ought engaging in a firefight with local authorities or SWAT units. However, individuals that intended to engage the authorities will chose a fully automatic Assault Weapons instead of SAWs, and generally put up a tough fight against local authorities and SWAT units. Remember the botched L.A. back robbery a few years back? Therefore, anyone intended just to slaughter unarmed civilians will grave what ever weapon they can with a half decent cycle rate, while individuals that intended to go into a real firefight will go with a full auto.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 3:31:03 PM EDT
Can you define the characteristics of an "assault weapon"?
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 3:35:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2002 3:36:06 PM EDT by sulaco]
Sure thing, Magazine capacity of 11 rounds or more, pistol grip, flash suppressor, bayonet lug and folding stock. Just the usual stuff. I want to complain about our Assault Weapon Ban being fruitless, however I need some kind of leg to stand on when I say that. Just seeking some advice from our experts hear[:D]
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 3:45:28 PM EDT
I see. You're using the HCI (plus all the other anti 2nd Amendment idiots) nebulous definition of "assault weapon." I personally take exception to the idea that the presence of a pistol grip, flash hider, or bayonet lug makes a particular firearm suddenly more "evil" or inherently dangerous. As I have learned, an "assault rifle" is any SELECT-fire shoulder weapon firing an intermediate cartridge (5.56, 5.45, 7.62x39). Of course, the anti's tend to lump 7.62x51 chambered weapons into that category but I digress. If a rifle is semi-auto ONLY, it is NOT an assault rifle. It may bear a cosmetic similiarity but that's all it is. If you're going to argue the futility and stupidity of the AW ban, that's great. But you should avoid propagating the antis' boogeyman.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 3:56:47 PM EDT
Very true Wadman, that’s something I am trying to point out. Those that are actually are able to assault an armed opposing force needs an automatic weapon if operating in small numbers, those that intend to oppose an unarmed force needs only something that can fire a round every few seconds depending on there position. Either way, the presence of a pistol grip, bayonet lug, flash suppressor and folding stock/telescopic stock have very little impact on the lethalness of that weapon.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 4:23:51 PM EDT
Try this: If you assault someone with a weapon, it's an assault weapon. That applies even to fists. A weapon's appearance doesn't change its value as a weapon. Shot for shot, a Winchester Model 70, bolt action, blued steel, walnut stock, having no "evil features" associated with assault rifles, equipped with internal 5 round magazine, no bayonet lug, no flash hider, no grenade launcher,no pistol grip, and no collapsible or folding stock, is just as potentially lethal as any so-called "assault weapon", if not even more so due to its accuracy, particularly at longer ranges, making it a good "sniper rifle" as is demanded when hunting alert game at longer ranges. But nobody's trying to ban hunter's rifles, are they? So what's the real difference? Looks, mostly. But, anti-gunners, seeing this, rather than see how ludicrous the assault weapons ban is (Well, they will see it, but they won't admit it), will then try to ban bolt action rifles! Truth and logic is on our side. Use it. CJ
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 4:46:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 4:56:03 PM EDT
No, truth and logic is not worthless, even against the sheeple. This is because the dumbest of the sheeple don't vote, anyway. Fortunately. One of the great pleasures in life is to hear an anti-gunner lie, and then you get to crush him with pure, irrefutable truth, backed up with verifiable data, making him look like a total idiot. That works, even with sheeple. But you have to practice! CJ
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 5:18:46 PM EDT
yeah, in an urban standoff against SWAT teams a sniper rifle would probably be more useful due to its surprise factor and accuracy. An assault weapon firing full auto will draw immediate return fire to the shooter, but a sniper rifle with one shot will come as a surprise and have far more psychological impact than a gunman armed with an assault rifle. People tend to be more afraid of enemies they can't see or locate. If you were in a SWAT team, what would you fear more, some guy with an assault rifle blazing away? Or a hidden sniper that you can't see but is picking off your fellow officers one by one? (and if he's smart, he'd relocate after 1-2 shots to keep'em guessing)
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 5:20:53 PM EDT
Sorry, cmj, the dumbest of the sheeple DO vote, at least in the Chicago area. There are proposed laws in Congress to ban any caliber ammunition which can penetrate police-type body armor at 50 feet. Gee, seems any .30-06 will do that... so much for hunting rifles. Logic and facts do not apply to anti-gunners. They are incapable of processing the data. It appears to be a genetic flaw. BTW - there's a big difference between an "assault rifle" - which has a specific military definition - and an "assault weapon" which means whatever the speaker wants it to mean, unless you are Congress and give it a cosmetic meaning under the law.
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 5:21:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sulaco: .... the use of SAWs and other semi-automatic weapons...
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sulaco, I'm not trying to bust your chops here but "SAW" most often refers to a "Squad Automatic Weapon" (SAW).
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 7:01:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 8:13:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By sulaco: .... the use of SAWs and other semi-automatic weapons...
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sulaco, I'm not trying to bust your chops here but "SAW" most often refers to a "Squad Automatic Weapon" (SAW).
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I’ve seen the term SAWs in reference to Semi-auto Assault Weapons used on the board a few times so I though I would use it here.
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 1:00:44 AM EDT
sulaco, I see your logic, however, that's not necessarily how a criminal mind is going to operate. A criminal does not always make choices based on efficient means, usually they choose the easiest path which sometimes means a fully automatic firearm is unavailable. The other thing is I don't think anyone actually intends to get into a serious firefight with police, those with a death wish or want their suicide by cop don't care, and those like the North Hollywood Bank Robbers were an aberration and perhaps were inspired by the movie "Heat" and the act was ego driven, (a guess on my part, except that there was evidence they watched and studied that movie many times) and they wanted a glorious end to a big score not necessarily a winning gun battle.
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 3:21:52 AM EDT
How about my favorite HCI exclamation:
[red][I]It's a [B]WEAPON OF WAR[/B]!!![/I][/red]
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Well, no sh*t Sherlock! Suck it up and move on... [:(!]
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 4:13:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 4:24:57 AM EDT
They are called HOMELAND SECURITY RIFLES c-rock
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 4:27:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 4:37:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wadman: Can you define the characteristics of an "assault weapon"?
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To me, an asualt weapon is any weapon, including knives, baseball bats, forks, hammers, cars, trucks, fire, etc., THAT HAS BEEN USED to threaten or attempt to cause bodily harm to another individual. This can include almost every weapon ever made. from www.dictionary.com as·sault Pronunciation Key (-sôlt) n. 1. A violent physical or verbal attack. 2. a. A military attack, such as one launched against a fortified area or place. b. The concluding stage of an attack in which close combat occurs with the enemy. Law. 3. a. An unlawful threat or attempt to do bodily injury to another. b. The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another. 4. a. Law. Sexual assault. b. The crime of rape.
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 5:23:37 AM EDT
I think we should ban hunting rifles. Let's do it. For the deer. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 7:50:59 AM EDT
Yes! thats it... Homeland security rifles... All of the sudden they just dont seem quite as "evil" any more..... Hell, I just might tell my friends I have a few of those....
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 7:59:35 AM EDT
lets give a homeland security rifle to every high school graduate who will take a few weeks training. Homeland secure from all sorts problems.
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 9:34:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M-60: Yes! thats it... Homeland security rifles... All of the sudden they just dont seem quite as "evil" any more..... Hell, I just might tell my friends I have a few of those....
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I saw someone over on assweb that came up with it, I just ran with it. c-rock
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 9:42:09 AM EDT
I saw "Homeland Security Rifle" in this topic, and suggested it be engraved on the ZM-Weapons group purchase...
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