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Posted: 6/29/2015 12:48:40 PM EDT
I work for a small general contracting outfit.  Due to mismanaging their funding, I've been enlightened by the powers that be that there is virtually no money in their bank account until we collect several final payments for jobs.  When we collect first payments, basically the job is paid for and on final payments there is PLENTY of profit.  All jobs to this point have been paid for with a tidy profit.  Mind you, they've accepted several first payments in addition for jobs yet to be ordered/produced and still...have managed to misappropriate the funds.

Is it time to pepper my Angus?  Who's hiring?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:53:03 PM EDT
I'd be looking for a new job
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:53:28 PM EDT
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Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:54:20 PM EDT
Ya, I don't think that type of financial management fixes itself. Dust off the resume.

Not your direct field, but we're hiring DBAs, account directors, account managers, java architects, etc. We're a digital marketing services company in Dallas. I can send you a link to the total list if interested. PM me.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:54:28 PM EDT
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I'd be looking for a new job


Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:54:29 PM EDT
Whoever your controller is needs to be fucking fired.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:54:29 PM EDT
Some sketchy shit going on if your accounts receivable is empty.

Don't worry though, with Greece and Puerto Rico both going tits up with their economy and debts, the house of cards will topple for us all soon enough.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:54:29 PM EDT
Sounds like they aren't using the correct money to pay for stuff.

Once guys start using deposits on future jobs to fund existing jobs things tend to slide downhill fast.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:55:01 PM EDT


My wife's company called all of their vendors and told them "Look, we know we owe you money. You can either wait patiently or make a fuss, in which case we'll take you off of our Approved Vendor List."



Link Posted: 6/29/2015 12:57:09 PM EDT
Unless they have burnt up a line of credit also I wouldn't worry. They should tap that for emergencies like this. If not... First post and all that.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:06:30 PM EDT
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Whoever your controller is needs to be fucking fired.
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With a small GC I'd wager that these decisions are being made by the owner directly.
Which is indicative a greater problem.

OP- I'd be looking around.  Chances are they told you that as a pre-staging for the upcoming failure to issue valid paychecks.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:06:44 PM EDT
Quoted:
I work for a small general contracting outfit.  Due to mismanaging their funding, I've been enlightened by the powers that be that there is virtually no money in their bank account until we collect several final payments for jobs.  When we collect first payments, basically the job is paid for and on final payments there is PLENTY of profit.  All jobs to this point have been paid for with a tidy profit.  Mind you, they've accepted several first payments in addition for jobs yet to be ordered/produced and still...have managed to misappropriate the funds.

Is it time to pepper my Angus?  Who's hiring?
View Quote


They just admitted that they can't pay you.

How motivated are you to work for them knowing that anything you do now for them could be uncompensated?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:06:56 PM EDT
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Whoever your controller is needs to be fucking fired.
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The owner unfortunately.  Should I suggest he fire himself?  

EDIT:  I'm also aware they can't pay me as they delayed payment on two jobs and I finally got them to release one...which is when I was informed.  Being commissions only, I'm in for a bumpy, ugly ride.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:07:35 PM EDT
F5.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:08:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:08:49 PM EDT
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Unless they have burnt up a line of credit also I wouldn't worry. They should tap that for emergencies like this. If not... First post and all that.
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Good luck with that, small business with a line of credit sufficient to cover receivables gap? Very hit and miss.

Either way, how the f would you expect OP to know any of that info?

I'd be looking for a new job OP.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:16:24 PM EDT
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My wife's company called all of their vendors and told them "Look, we know we owe you money. You can either wait patiently or make a fuss, in which case we'll take you off of our Approved Vendor List."



View Quote



This happens fairly often and is more common the larger you become. If you have 'approved' vendors that are planning their business around receiving X amount of money from you each month, you slowly roll into that 'if you are in debt 1k the bank owns you, in debt for $1M you own the bank' type of situation.

When I was the division VP/controller for a fortune 500 company, we had a huge amount of receivables as well as payables. Cash,deposits, transfers, wires...money was flying all over the place all of the time. In an idea (that started out as a joke) to get our cash management in a more manageable position we ended up telling our vendors that in order to now be a vendor within our new VMC (vendor management company) that was assigning vendors per product based on price, service, location, etc they now had to agree to being paid on the 15th of the next month for all work done between the 1st and 31st of the previous month. Take it or leave it.

Some smaller ones weren't buying it. All of the larger ones that had come to rely on us for sometimes $100k+ of monthly revenue all went along if they liked it or not.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:19:19 PM EDT
Call for a referendum like Greece.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:19:55 PM EDT
As the owner of a small contracting firm, I'd say unless you have an idea of outstanding accounts receivable I wouldn't be alarmed yet. I do a ton of work for a local hospital and getting final payment from them can take months after completion. My accounts can get low from time to time.  That's why I have a revolving working capitol line of credit. I've only had to use it a couple times but if someone would have checked my account balances right before I took a draw on it, they would think we were broke.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:20:19 PM EDT
This sounds like a family owned business .  Where they play fast and loose with the books . And the employees .

If you want something close to stability in your life then you had better find employment somewhere else.

I know of a business that at this moment takes in at least $10,000,000. plus yearly.   But they go through this same drama monthly .

And as soon as they get caught up cash wise what do they do ??   Take expensive vacations .  Buy expensive cars and jewelry . etc . etc .

Just plain nuts .

gd
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:39:44 PM EDT
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I'd be looking for a new job
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FP...NI
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:47:22 PM EDT
Quoted:
I work for a small general contracting outfit.  Due to mismanaging their funding, I've been enlightened by the powers that be that there is virtually no money in their bank account until we collect several final payments for jobs.  When we collect first payments, basically the job is paid for and on final payments there is PLENTY of profit.  All jobs to this point have been paid for with a tidy profit.  Mind you, they've accepted several first payments in addition for jobs yet to be ordered/produced and still...have managed to misappropriate the funds.

Is it time to pepper my Angus?  Who's hiring?
View Quote



Are these big jobs they are waiting on payment from the customer? The only time I would say that it isn't particularly a company's fault is if they have taken on a large and expensive project and the customer has been less than ideal in making payments. That can easily lead to cash flow issues without really being the business owner's fault per se. A smaller business is going to take the big jobs without being too thorough in vetting the customer as the risk/reward ratio can be attractive. If all of the payments they are missing are just general, run of the mill jobs and the owner doesn't have an adequate line of credit to keep you paid, then I would start looking elsewhere. It's not that often that a small business comes back from a scenario in which their payroll checks start bouncing.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:47:29 PM EDT
Worked for a company like this in the past, use first draws to fund existing jobs that they had already spent those draws on something else, owner driving fancy cars, taking vacations, and throwing cash around, it didn't last long.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:52:03 PM EDT
The trucking company I worked for experienced that kind of stuff around 08 when the economy went to shit.
First our checks were just delayed till the following Monday for a couple weeks.
Then it went to Wednesday for a couple of weeks.
then it was back on Fridays although now they  had two weeks of holding per paycheck instead of one.
Then the cycle repeated until employees were  6 weeks behind on pay or more/less depending how long they stuck around.
Of course no one was hiring then so the best we could do was ride it out, quit and hope to find a job or get fired and get unemployment.
I feel bad for the guys who stayed till the end, the dumb asses lost 2 months of pay when it was all said and done. Because when they closed permanently they stopped paying completely.
It was a shame though, I finally got fired, collected my 6 weeks of back pay over the course of 8 weeks then had to file unemployment.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:53:04 PM EDT
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Worked for a company like this in the past, use first draws to fund existing jobs that they had already spent those draws on something else, owner driving fancy cars, taking vacations, and throwing cash around, it didn't last long.
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This.  The writing is on the wall.  I've known these guys for years, they started their own company last year and I jumped ship with them as they lured me in with an attractive pay structure.  Last year, at least in terms of finances, went smoothly.  We had a fast start when this season opened, and the one owner likes to spend.  More and more the longer he owns the company.  He's been on three vacations already, and the $$$ isn't there.  More upset that I rode out this year with them when the season started so quickly and was $15k owed in a matter of a month.  I had the opportunity to potentially jump to a different outfit/field altogether, but unfortunately it's a missed opportunity at this point in the game.  I never got around to calling the owner of that company after an initial missed call to him to decline.  Accidentally deleted the contact from my phone and was unable to speak directly to him, so probably burned that bridge even if the position was still available.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:53:34 PM EDT
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My wife's company called all of their vendors and told them "Look, we know we owe you money. You can either wait patiently or make a fuss, in which case we'll take you off of our Approved Vendor List."



View Quote



That's called bargaining power. A business that spends a lot of money with it's vendors relative to the vendor company's revenues has a lot of power in negotiating the terms of business. This type of thing happens all the time.

If a company A spends $1m a year with a $10m a year business B, then company A has a fair amount of market power to be able to renegotiate terms for their benefit with business B. However, if business B is a $10 billion a year firm, then company A can only renegotiate terms to the extent that it is mutually beneficial (which is usually either none or not much), otherwise business B can tell them to pound sand.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:57:17 PM EDT
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This.  The writing is on the wall.  I've known these guys for years, they started their own company last year and I jumped ship with them as they lured me in with an attractive pay structure.  Last year, at least in terms of finances, went smoothly.  We had a fast start when this season opened, and the one owner likes to spend.  More and more the longer he owns the company.  He's been on three vacations already, and the $$$ isn't there.  More upset that I rode out this year with them when the season started so quickly and was $15k owed in a matter of a month.  I had the opportunity to potentially jump to a different outfit/field altogether, but unfortunately it's a missed opportunity at this point in the game.  I never got around to calling the owner of that company after an initial missed call to him to decline.  Accidentally deleted the contact from my phone and was unable to speak directly to him, so probably burned that bridge even if the position was still available.
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Worked for a company like this in the past, use first draws to fund existing jobs that they had already spent those draws on something else, owner driving fancy cars, taking vacations, and throwing cash around, it didn't last long.


This.  The writing is on the wall.  I've known these guys for years, they started their own company last year and I jumped ship with them as they lured me in with an attractive pay structure.  Last year, at least in terms of finances, went smoothly.  We had a fast start when this season opened, and the one owner likes to spend.  More and more the longer he owns the company.  He's been on three vacations already, and the $$$ isn't there.  More upset that I rode out this year with them when the season started so quickly and was $15k owed in a matter of a month.  I had the opportunity to potentially jump to a different outfit/field altogether, but unfortunately it's a missed opportunity at this point in the game.  I never got around to calling the owner of that company after an initial missed call to him to decline.  Accidentally deleted the contact from my phone and was unable to speak directly to him, so probably burned that bridge even if the position was still available.



ah. lavish spending when the cash isn't there is a big warning sign of a royalty complex from the owners. It is likely time to move on.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:00:05 PM EDT
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I'd be looking for a new job
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^That, Yesterday.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:03:34 PM EDT
I don't work for free.  You should decide whether you do or not, and quickly.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:04:07 PM EDT
If you're not it debt then count yourself as one of the lucky ones.  If you are in debt then get Obama to pay for it.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:06:30 PM EDT

Quoted:


I work for a small general contracting outfit.  Due to mismanaging their funding, I've been enlightened by the powers that be that there is virtually no money in their bank account until we collect several final payments for jobs.  When we collect first payments, basically the job is paid for and on final payments there is PLENTY of profit.  All jobs to this point have been paid for with a tidy profit.  Mind you, they've accepted several first payments in addition for jobs yet to be ordered/produced and still...have managed to misappropriate the funds.



Is it time to pepper my Angus?  Who's hiring?
View Quote
Put a Mechanic's Lien on their assets for whatever wages you're owed and move on. It ain't your problem.



 
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:09:26 PM EDT
FPNI
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:12:31 PM EDT
I'd bail,  you're going to get asked to work for free pretty quick "but they'll pay you back as soon as we get paid for x job. Promise"
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:15:37 PM EDT
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The owner unfortunately.  Should I suggest he fire himself?  

EDIT:  I'm also aware they can't pay me as they delayed payment on two jobs and I finally got them to release one...which is when I was informed.  Being commissions only, I'm in for a bumpy, ugly ride.
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Quoted:
Whoever your controller is needs to be fucking fired.


The owner unfortunately.  Should I suggest he fire himself?  

EDIT:  I'm also aware they can't pay me as they delayed payment on two jobs and I finally got them to release one...which is when I was informed.  Being commissions only, I'm in for a bumpy, ugly ride.

Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:20:24 PM EDT
I wouldn't be on Arfcom now, I would be packing my shit and leave right now, and be out looking for a job.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:21:03 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Whoever your controller is needs to be fucking fired.


The owner unfortunately.  Should I suggest he fire himself?  

EDIT:  I'm also aware they can't pay me as they delayed payment on two jobs and I finally got them to release one...which is when I was informed.  Being commissions only, I'm in for a bumpy, ugly ride.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGcOQV8kjA8TBgKh324jT1Q07lhIDDVVzm84PPh­H7g5fHc5yty


I've been commissions only for 4 years now.  I have no problem with it because of the lucrative pay until these guys decided to fuck it all up.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:22:18 PM EDT
That's not fund misappropriation by a long shot.  And its not out of the ordinary for a small business at all.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:23:33 PM EDT
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I'd be looking for a new job




This and like others have said a small company run by the owner is in really poor shape if they are bouncing checks to employees.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:30:05 PM EDT
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I've been commissions only for 4 years now.  I have no problem with it because of the lucrative pay until these guys decided to fuck it all up.
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Whoever your controller is needs to be fucking fired.


The owner unfortunately.  Should I suggest he fire himself?  

EDIT:  I'm also aware they can't pay me as they delayed payment on two jobs and I finally got them to release one...which is when I was informed.  Being commissions only, I'm in for a bumpy, ugly ride.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGcOQV8kjA8TBgKh324jT1Q07lhIDDVVzm84PPh­H7g5fHc5yty


I've been commissions only for 4 years now.  I have no problem with it because of the lucrative pay until these guys decided to fuck it all up.

Exactly. Them or something/someone else. It sounds like the owners bullshit is finally catching up with him. Sorry to hear OP.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:30:10 PM EDT
right now I have several larger jobs 80 to 90% complete and haven't collected a nickel on any of them, the two larger ones total $160k



What kind of outfit collect a deposit that is big enough to cover all expenses prior to starting?




How do you know all the expenses and the supposed profit margin?




Right now I can't get a job bidding at 1990 costs and literally every single guy in my trade is swamped with work. I have lost around  10% on a dozen jobs since the Halfrican came to DC.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:32:38 PM EDT

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My wife's company called all of their vendors and told them "Look, we know we owe you money. You can either wait patiently or make a fuss, in which case we'll take you off of our Approved Vendor List."







View Quote




 






I'm betting a whole lot of businesses are operating on really thin margins and falling behind.




The new normal.






Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:32:45 PM EDT
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Whoever your controller is needs to be fucking fired.
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Not necessarily.  Its the controllers job to compile and present data.  Its the managements job to use that data.  Controllers typically do not have the authority to over-ride management.  IE the controller says "hey, we dont have enough money for that private jet lease" and the CEO says "i dont care, i only fly private", guess who is going to win that argument.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:32:53 PM EDT
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That's not fund misappropriation by a long shot.  And its not out of the ordinary for a small business at all.
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Dude if you are using deposits on future work to pay debt existing on finished or outstanding work I'd  say you are already fucked. A business should be putting aside operating capital from each job. What if a slowdown occurs? Layoffs? Surplus of operating capital allowed my bosses to keep the doors open during the 3 worst years of the recession without a single layoff, now they pretty much had to sell jobs at cost to scrape by but they payed their bills and employees the whole time. Hand to mouth is a recipe for disaster.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:35:37 PM EDT
Final payment or retainage?  There is an art form to front loading a SOV with enough cash to keep everything moving due to slow/delayed payments, etc.  Regardless, the owners are often time the problem in regards to cash.



As young as your company seems to be from your other post, these guys sure are living it up before the money is even all in.  Wait until they have to pay their income tax liability.



It could be worse, you could have thrown money in and been a partner over there.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:37:50 PM EDT
when the paycheck bounces
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:38:49 PM EDT

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Quoted:
This happens fairly often and is more common the larger you become. If you have 'approved' vendors that are planning their business around receiving X amount of money from you each month, you slowly roll into that 'if you are in debt 1k the bank owns you, in debt for $1M you own the bank' type of situation.



When I was the division VP/controller for a fortune 500 company, we had a huge amount of receivables as well as payables. Cash,deposits, transfers, wires...money was flying all over the place all of the time. In an idea (that started out as a joke) to get our cash management in a more manageable position we ended up telling our vendors that in order to now be a vendor within our new VMC (vendor management company) that was assigning vendors per product based on price, service, location, etc they now had to agree to being paid on the 15th of the next month for all work done between the 1st and 31st of the previous month. Take it or leave it.



Some smaller ones weren't buying it. All of the larger ones that had come to rely on us for sometimes $100k+ of monthly revenue all went along if they liked it or not.
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Quoted:





My wife's company called all of their vendors and told them "Look, we know we owe you money. You can either wait patiently or make a fuss, in which case we'll take you off of our Approved Vendor List."













This happens fairly often and is more common the larger you become. If you have 'approved' vendors that are planning their business around receiving X amount of money from you each month, you slowly roll into that 'if you are in debt 1k the bank owns you, in debt for $1M you own the bank' type of situation.



When I was the division VP/controller for a fortune 500 company, we had a huge amount of receivables as well as payables. Cash,deposits, transfers, wires...money was flying all over the place all of the time. In an idea (that started out as a joke) to get our cash management in a more manageable position we ended up telling our vendors that in order to now be a vendor within our new VMC (vendor management company) that was assigning vendors per product based on price, service, location, etc they now had to agree to being paid on the 15th of the next month for all work done between the 1st and 31st of the previous month. Take it or leave it.



Some smaller ones weren't buying it. All of the larger ones that had come to rely on us for sometimes $100k+ of monthly revenue all went along if they liked it or not.
In contracting it is normal to wait 45 to 75 days for payment, then there is retention which they can keep  for a year in some cases.

 
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:40:59 PM EDT
Honestly sounds like workplace rumor/drama.
1) Separate yourself from drama at work
2) Always have a plan B
3) Refer to 1 and 2 often
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:41:58 PM EDT
I would be out the door and suing now for lost wages so that you are first in line. This is going to end in an ugly manner . I have BTDT and was left with almost $10,000 owed to me by a former employer . I saw about $300 and an old laptop when it finally shook out .
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:45:43 PM EDT
Find the biggest, most expensive piece of vital equipment the company has and have it go missing...tell them it'll show back up when you get paid...then quit...
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:49:16 PM EDT
A friend of mine worked for a company that went that route.  You know things aren't well when you can no long get credit to purchase raw materials for actual orders you have.  Then the owners seem to be rolling in cash...new houses, boats, cars, etc.  Then one day the police came to the business looking for the owners.  Then everyone walked off the job when their paychecks bounced.  

All the checks my friend wrote to pay his bills came back NSF.  That's how he found out the paycheck he deposited bounced.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:51:56 PM EDT
That's nothing.  Our country was broke 18 thousand billion dollars ago.
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