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Posted: 11/16/2011 9:15:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2011 9:28:01 PM EDT by dingleberry]
Let me preface this by saying neither one of us is religious. In the spirit of the season I don’t want this to turn into a religion bashing thread either.

Now on to the issue at hand: My wife and I are having repeated arguments over whether or not we will participate in the Santa Claus myth with our daughter. Thankfully she’s too young to know any better this year. Next year, however, there could be serious drama in my household. I say this somewhat tongue in cheek. We have a happy marriage and most of our arguments on this subject are punctuated with laughter.

That said, I’m of the opinion that it’s not okay to lie to a child, even over something as seemingly innocent as this. There are far too many false myths foisted upon children these days. Some are fairly innocuous, some are downright harmful. Sure, Santa Claus is probably the most benign of them all, but it’s still an outright fabrication. I want my child to know that she can always expect her father to tell her the truth, no matter her age, just as I expect the same from her. The truth may be “I don’t know” or “we’ll discuss that when you’re older,” but I will never lie to her. I’m fine with Christmas presents, decorating the tree, Christmas cookies, and all the rest of it. I just don’t want to lie to my kid. I don’t remember when the Santa Claus myth was popped for me, but I do have a distinct emotional memory of feeling like a chump.

So, what does the hive say? Am I just a buzz-kill who needs to lighten up?

Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:16:58 PM EDT
She'll only be young once, let her have this one.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:17:10 PM EDT
This thread will go well.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:18:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2011 9:20:14 PM EDT by DanTSX]
The season is secular, the holiday itself is religious. Don't overcomplicate this. The whole myth is as American as apple pie. Don't deprive her, or make her the weird one out of her friends.

Kids usually figure it out by 5 or 6 anyways. They just keep up the act because they don't want you to get them less presents. Trust me on this point
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:18:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ttushooter:
This thread will go well.


Oh come on. For once I'd like to have a thread that doesn't get locked.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:19:32 PM EDT
I was never told to believe in santa claus and didn't miss anything in my opinion. I have fond memories.

My kids won't have santa either. Thankfully my wife feels the same.

Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:20:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DanTSX:

The season is secular, the holiday itself is religious. Don't overcomplicate this. The whole myth is as American as apple pie. Don't deprive her, or make her the weird one out of her friends.


She won't be deprived. There is worse things that being an oddball too, when everybody else is the wrong one.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:20:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
The season is secular, the holiday itself is religious. Don't overcomplicate this. The whole myth is as American as apple pie. Don't deprive her, or make her the weird one out of her friends.

Kids usually figure it out by 5 or 6 anyways. They just keep up the act because they don't want you to get them less presents. Trust me on this point


Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:21:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2011 9:22:21 PM EDT by DanTSX]
Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
Originally Posted By DanTSX:

The season is secular, the holiday itself is religious. Don't overcomplicate this. The whole myth is as American as apple pie. Don't deprive her, or make her the weird one out of her friends.


She won't be deprived. There is worse things that being an oddball too, when everybody else is the wrong one.


Things used to be simpler....


So, who brings the presents down the chimney? Baby Jesus or Adult Jesus?
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:21:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BobRoberts:
She'll only be young once, let her have this one.


Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:21:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2011 9:22:31 PM EDT by AZBADBOY]
Better think this logic out more. I'll start with another problem, "daddy how are babies made"
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:22:05 PM EDT
Don't be a dingleberry.



Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:22:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dingleberry:

So, what does the hive say? Am I just a buzz-kill who needs to lighten up?


Yes. Santa Claus is fun stuff, and you had some other hangups going on if you felt like deceived and taken advantage of by the fact that your parents gave you gifts under the guise of Santa Claus.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:23:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DontShootMyDog:
Don't be a dingleberry.





There is nothing wrong with not doing santa claus. Don't be rude.

Why can't a kid enjoy Christmas without it ? Plenty do..
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:24:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZBADBOY:
Better think this logic out more. I'll start with another problem, "daddy how are babies made"


If you read his post, he states he has no problem with "I don't know" , or " We'll discuss that later"

Seems that problem is already solved.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:24:12 PM EDT
Split the difference and celebrate Christmas, and Santa, but without the emphasis of Santa being real.


Just send her the link to the Santa Wiki page.

Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:24:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
Originally Posted By DontShootMyDog:
Don't be a dingleberry.





There is nothing wrong with not doing santa claus. Don't be rude.

Why can't a kid enjoy Christmas without it ? Plenty do..

Skipping the hokie carols and the smelly trees, too?
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:24:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:

Originally Posted By dingleberry:

So, what does the hive say? Am I just a buzz-kill who needs to lighten up?


Yes. Santa Claus is fun stuff, and you had some other hangups going on if you felt like deceived and taken advantage of by the fact that your parents gave you gifts under the guise of Santa Claus.


Way off but thanks for the input just the same.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:25:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:

Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
Originally Posted By DontShootMyDog:
Don't be a dingleberry.





There is nothing wrong with not doing santa claus. Don't be rude.

Why can't a kid enjoy Christmas without it ? Plenty do..

Skipping the hokie carols and the smelly trees, too?


I don't recall those built on falsehoods.

Why make your child feel like a chump like the OP claims he felt ? And risk loosing trust over deceiving them.. most will probably take it ok in this regard as its harmless but some probably won't.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:26:02 PM EDT
OP, do you realize the actual emotional function of the santa myth in a child's life?

Children observe but do not understand the economic difficulties of adults. They pick up on weird stuff and start to feel guilt when you show doubts and don't think they are looking. The santa myth gives them hope (that is generally borne out) without the children having to feel any guilt for contributing to your financial doubt and misery that they observe.

Kids like presents, but they are not all "gimmie, gimmie, gimmie" they know that you have to make ends meet and all that. They don't understand how, and think of it in far more simple terms than reality even allows, but they will likely feel it otherwise.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:27:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2011 9:27:33 PM EDT by 103]
Ah for a time when my big concerns are Santa Claus...
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:27:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:

Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
Originally Posted By DontShootMyDog:
Don't be a dingleberry.





There is nothing wrong with not doing santa claus. Don't be rude.

Why can't a kid enjoy Christmas without it ? Plenty do..

Skipping the hokie carols and the smelly trees, too?


I don't recall those built on falsehoods.

Why make your child feel like a chump like the OP claims he felt ? And risk loosing trust over deceiving them.. most will probably take it ok in this regard as its harmless but some probably won't.

"Here comes Santa Claus" LIES!!! LIES!!!!
"Rudolph The Red Nosed Reindeer" MORE LIES!!!!!!
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:28:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:28:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BobRoberts:
She'll only be young once, let her have this one.


Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:28:23 PM EDT
Stop being a douche.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:28:37 PM EDT
i'd rather just know that my parents love me and buy me shit when i'm good
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:28:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobRoberts:
She'll only be young once, let her have this one.

this.

or you could be a douche and tell her.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:29:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2011 9:31:24 PM EDT by DanTSX]
Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:

Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
Originally Posted By DontShootMyDog:
Don't be a dingleberry.





There is nothing wrong with not doing santa claus. Don't be rude.

Why can't a kid enjoy Christmas without it ? Plenty do..

Skipping the hokie carols and the smelly trees, too?







Todd Chester: Hey Griswold. Where do you think you're gonna put a tree that big?
Clark: Bend over and I'll show you.
Todd Chester: You've got a lot of nerve talking to me like that Griswold.
Clark: [looking at his wife, Margo] I wasn't talking to you.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:30:04 PM EDT
To the OP: DON'T BE A DOUCHE.

Do you really want to be "that guy"?
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:30:21 PM EDT
This sounds like a pretty lousy hill to die on.

Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:30:30 PM EDT
Are you going to broach that whole Christmas Vs. the winter solstice angle???
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:30:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2011 9:31:28 PM EDT by Blick]
Well, here's the thing...

Lying is generally considered immoral. Doing immoral things to children is generally considered even worse. AND, if the child finds out at a young, impressionable age that Santa Claus is not real (like 5 or 6) there's always the possibility that they'll doubt things you tell them as fact in the future.

But on the other hand, I really don't think anybody turned out to be a serial killer because their parents told them Santa Claus existed. I actually didn't figure out that Santa Claus wasn't real until I was 11 or 12, and then I actually got angry at my parents for lying to me all these years. However, if I could change it, I wouldn't. I would just let my young self believe in Santa Claus. It makes the holiday more exciting for kids, even if it makes you a viciously immoral liar.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:30:52 PM EDT
For fuck's sake.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:31:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BobRoberts:
She'll only be young once, let her have this one.


this

Christmas does not have to be about religion.

I sure enjoyed Christmas when I was young especially when Santa came to my house to drop of the presents.
When she is older let her make the decision but I think you should just got for it and try to enjoy it. The face on your little girl will be priceless.
I have seen it on children although I do not have any of my own

Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:31:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:

Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
Originally Posted By DontShootMyDog:
Don't be a dingleberry.





There is nothing wrong with not doing santa claus. Don't be rude.

Why can't a kid enjoy Christmas without it ? Plenty do..

Skipping the hokie carols and the smelly trees, too?




http://www.ejumpcut.org/archive/jc50.2008/BlueSteel/BluesteelJCimages/68XmasYuppie.jpg

Todd Chester: Hey Griswold. Where do you think you're gonna put a tree that big?
Clark: Bend over and I'll show you.
Todd Chester: You've got a lot of nerve talking to me like that Griswold.
Clark: [looking at his wife, Margo] I wasn't talking to you.

Best movie ever! Gonna have to fire it up, I usually bust it out after Halloween.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:31:49 PM EDT
OP HATES AMERICA
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:31:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By maleante:
To the OP: DON'T BE A DOUCHE.

Do you really want to be "that guy"?


Why do you all seem to think he would be a douche for not doing it your way ? He, nor I have implied anyone would be a douche for practicing santa.

Do it your way, let others have it theirs.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:33:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dingleberry:
Let me preface this by saying neither one of us is religious. In the spirit of the season I don’t want this to turn into a religion bashing thread either.

Now on to the issue at hand: My wife and I are having repeated arguments over whether or not we will participate in the Santa Claus myth with our daughter. Thankfully she’s too young to know any better this year. Next year, however, there could be serious drama in my household. I say this somewhat tongue in cheek. We have a happy marriage and most of our arguments on this subject are punctuated with laughter.

That said, I’m of the opinion that it’s not okay to lie to a child, even over something as seemingly innocent as this. There are far too many false myths foisted upon children these days. Some are fairly innocuous, some are downright harmful. Sure, Santa Claus is probably the most benign of them all, but it’s still an outright fabrication. I want my child to know that she can always expect her father to tell her the truth, no matter her age, just as I expect the same from her. The truth may be “I don’t know” or “we’ll discuss that when you’re older,” but I will never lie to her. I’m fine with Christmas presents, decorating the tree, Christmas cookies, and all the rest of it. I just don’t want to lie to my kid. I don’t remember when the Santa Claus myth was popped for me, but I do have a distinct emotional memory of feeling like a chump.

So, what does the hive say? Am I just a buzz-kill who needs to lighten up?



Admirable...but unfortunately parenting is not always black and white.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:33:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
OP HATES AMERICA


Nice
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:33:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
Originally Posted By maleante:
To the OP: DON'T BE A DOUCHE.

Do you really want to be "that guy"?


Why do you all seem to think he would be a douche for not doing it your way ? He, nor I have implied anyone would be a douche for practicing santa.

Do it your way, let others have it theirs.
OP used the "douche" in his poll at the top, thus the recurring "Don't be a douche"

Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:33:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
Originally Posted By DontShootMyDog:
Don't be a dingleberry.





There is nothing wrong with not doing santa claus. Don't be rude.

Why can't a kid enjoy Christmas without it ? Plenty do..


Why not skip Christmas all together... that is the dumbest thing I've heard this week. I have pity upon any child raised in a home like what you are suggesting is ok.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:34:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:

Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
Originally Posted By DontShootMyDog:
Don't be a dingleberry.





There is nothing wrong with not doing santa claus. Don't be rude.

Why can't a kid enjoy Christmas without it ? Plenty do..

Skipping the hokie carols and the smelly trees, too?




http://www.ejumpcut.org/archive/jc50.2008/BlueSteel/BluesteelJCimages/68XmasYuppie.jpg

Todd Chester: Hey Griswold. Where do you think you're gonna put a tree that big?
Clark: Bend over and I'll show you.
Todd Chester: You've got a lot of nerve talking to me like that Griswold.
Clark: [looking at his wife, Margo] I wasn't talking to you.

Best movie ever! Gonna have to fire it up, I usually bust it out after Halloween.


It is my "day after thanksgiving party" movie



oh, and.... Kiss my ass, Kiss your ass, Kiss his ass, happy hannukah

Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:34:03 PM EDT
i sympathize, but there's such a thing as overthinking. part of the passage from child to adult is the learning process––the decoding of myth of christmas.

i won't tell you what you should do, but i personally wouldn't be concerned about the idea of prevaricating to my child about santa.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:34:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dingleberry:
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
OP HATES AMERICA


Nice


Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:35:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2011 9:35:27 PM EDT by JeffTheOtherDude]
Teach her about the Krampus and *looks around* The Grither

Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:35:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2011 9:38:21 PM EDT by DanTSX]
Originally Posted By maleante:
Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
Originally Posted By DontShootMyDog:
Don't be a dingleberry.





There is nothing wrong with not doing santa claus. Don't be rude.

Why can't a kid enjoy Christmas without it ? Plenty do..


Why not skip Christmas all together... that is the dumbest thing I've heard this week. I have pity upon any child raised in a home like what you are suggesting is ok.



Seriously.

Why not just go to the full-extent and have a birthday cake for Jesus and forsake EVERYTHING else!

Also, have it only on Jesus's real birthday and not the holiday based on the roman calendar. All this tree and reindeer shit is from Odin worshiping Germans and Norwegans eating magic mushrooms. The whole damn thing is a scam from top to bottom. Santa is a scapegoat in your crusade.


Trust me, you wouldn't be the first super religious guy to do it.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:35:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 74AKZ:
Originally Posted By maleante:
To the OP: DON'T BE A DOUCHE.

Do you really want to be "that guy"?


Why do you all seem to think he would be a douche for not doing it your way ? He, nor I have implied anyone would be a douche for practicing santa.

Do it your way, let others have it theirs.


LOL. You belong to that religion don't you... LOL.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:36:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:36:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2011 9:54:47 PM EDT by BillofRights]
WTF Dude? It's fucking Santa Clause. Let her experience the magic and wonder of being a child.

She will have plenty of time to experience disappointment, disillusionment and cynicism later.


I can't even believe you have to ask.

I feel sorry for your kid, and for you.
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:39:01 PM EDT
Who thinks that they were damaged because their parents 'lied' to them about Santa Claus?
Link Posted: 11/16/2011 9:39:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DanTSX:
The season is secular, the holiday itself is religious. Don't overcomplicate this. The whole myth is as American as apple pie. Don't deprive her, or make her the weird one out of her friends.

Kids usually figure it out by 5 or 6 anyways. They just keep up the act because they don't want you to get them less presents. Trust me on this point


Well said.
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