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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/4/2002 6:28:04 PM EDT
This was relayed to me by phone from son this afternoon. For those of you who don't know him he is 21. My son Ryan (aka Mcwarrior @ AR15.com) left our home in the Sierras this morning to go to San Jose (3-1/2 hours away) for a gathering of friends. He was supposed to pick one of them up at the San Jose airport. [i]After[/i] entering the (only) parking garage he was stopped at a vehicle inspection point. They were stopping all vehicles after entering but before they were allowed to park. The airport security asked if he had any explosives or guns to which he replied, "yes, I have a gun". He was then asked to exit the vehicle and show I.D. He showed them his USMC military I.D. He was told he would have to wait while a San Jose PD officer was called. This took about 10 minutes or so. The officer checked his I.D. again and asked to see the gun. The gun was unloaded locked in it's case and stored under the back seat of his Jeep Cherokee and the ammo and mags were in his overnight bag in the back of his vehicle. [i]Side bar: I bought the gun, a Colt 1991A1 a few years ago and at the end of 99 transfered it to him along with an AR and a couple other guns using the approved forms through the CA DOJ.[/i] He showed the officer his letter of registration from the CA DOJ showing the gun was properly registered and owned by him. The officer apparently wasn't quite sure what to do and said he would need to call a supervisor. After the supervisor got there and had the situation explained to him he asked the officer if the gun was being transported legally in accordance with the law and if there were any wants/warrants on my son. He was told yes, and no. The supervisor then asked the officer what the problem was, told him to give my son his gun back, apologized to my son for the delay and told him to have a nice day. The officer and the security officer both apologized for the inconvenience. My son told me both SJPD officers were professional and courteous the whole time and never hassled him or got an "attitude". Not that the incident didn't raise his heart rate somewhat. It's nice to see LEO who do not have a problem with us regular people having guns in our possesion. Especially in a very liberal, predominantly anti gun area like Silicon Valley.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:32:11 PM EDT
Sometimes your the windshield, sometimes your the bug. Looks like your son was the windshield that day.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:36:18 PM EDT
I would much rather deal with the military. Last fall, during the first of October, a friend and I were traveling in Kentucky and decided to stop and check out the Patton musem. After I turned off to enter the base, I realized we were both carrying. When we got to the check point, they asked us if we had any weapons. I said yes, we both did. The guard asked to see them, and then our permits. After checking our permits and verifing that our pistols were empty, he told us we could take them in the base only if they were unloaded and the magazine was not in the gun. I said OK, and he sent us on our way. I was very suprised by his actions, I thought for sure we were going to get the third degree, but it was not a big deal to him.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:39:28 PM EDT
I'm sure a USMC ID was a big help. About the only thing I have is a couple of pictures of my grandkids, and I doubt that buys any slack. "Step away from the vehicle sir. Now bend over..." [;)]
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 10:27:26 PM EDT
BTT... ...just kidding. I'm Ryan, the son. Here's the full story, thought you might like it. In all it's gruesome detail. Obviously it's not word for word, but I've tried to be as accurate as possible. What a funny story... --- Heading to a weekend with my friends in San Jose, I pulled into the parking garage at the American Airlines terminal just 15 minutes before my friend's plane was due. After I pulled into the garage I noticed that all cars were being searched. Not doing anything illegal, I waited my turn and then pulled in. The airport security guy told me he needed to search my car. Knowing what waited for him, I smiled and nodded. He went to the back hatch of my Jeep and opened it. He started to spread my bags and belongings around. He apparently hadn't yet opened my smaller duffel bag yet, as he then proceeded to ask me if I had anything like explosives, guns, etc in my car. I said, "Yes, I have a gun." He stopped going through my bags. "A gun?" He arched his eyebrows. "Yes, a gun," I replied. I explained that I was carrying a gun in my car, that it was unloaded and locked, and that the ammunition was stored separately from it. I told him I even had the voluntary registration form for it from the California Department of Justice. To emphasize my point, which he seemed not qutie to believe, I held up the locked case for him to see. The look on his face, frankly, was priceless. He paused for a moment, and then asked me to open it. Now, from what I understand, he didn't actually have the authority to demand this, but I was running late. "Sure," I said, "I'll open it. But step over here to the side of the car. If they people behind me see this they'll freak out." He did as I 'suggested,' and came over to the passenger side. I unlocked the door and he opened it. He watched as if I held a poisonous snake as I unlocked the case and opened it. Inside lay my favorite gun, a Colt 1991A1. I pulled out the DOJ letter from underneath the manual where I keep said letter for 'emergencies.' I handed it to him, but he never took his eyes off the gun. Finally he muttered, "I need to call the police." I stared at him in amazement. What for? I said, "The gun is unloaded and was locked separately from the ammunition. It's perfectly legal to transport it this way. I'm not taking it in the terminal." He repeated, "I think I need to call the police." He walked away with a nervous look on his face. I sat there, alone with my .45, now sitting open on the seat next to me. He radioed in to the SJPD, and resumed anxiously searching my car. ---
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 10:31:16 PM EDT
--- By the time law enforcement had arrived, he'd found my magazines and ammunition. He showed them to the officer who walked up to my car, telling him that he'd found this and a gun in my car. I didn't hear what was said next but it couldn't have been TOO bad. The officer came up to the passenger door. I asked him how he was doing, with no response. He didn't look at me. Instead he began to inspect my registration letter. Must be pretty good reading, because he took the time to read the whole thing. He then did something that amazed me. He picked up my gun out of it's case. This by itself was expected. What surprised me was that he began waving it around looking for my serial number. Sure, he could see that there was no magazine loaded, but what about a round in the chamber? He didn't bother to check there. After a few moments he'd satisfied himself that the gun was indeed the one on the paper. Then he asked for my ID. I opened my wallet and looked at my driver licence. I grew up in San Jose but since then I've renewed it - in some town the LEO had surely never heard of. I instead reached for my military ID, hoping that this would buy me some respect or professional courtesy. He stared at it for a while, trying to determine if the skinny hairless guy in the picture was really me (sometimes I doubt it myself). After a moment, he walked away with my ID and gun. I sat there for a moment, watching him through the rear windows. He was on the radio. I decided I was done, so I got out of the car. An older officer showed up, and took my ID from the younger one. He explained to the younger one, "If they're a cop, if they've got their badge you just wave 'em through." In other cases they were to check everything. He walked up to me and asked if I was active or reserve. I told him reserve and explained, "I'm picking up a friend in about five minutes, and then I'm spending the weekend in San Jose. We're going shooting tomorrow." He gave it back without a word and walked back to the other officer where he was waiting with the airport security guy. ---
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 10:32:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2002 10:57:32 PM EDT by mcwarrior]
--- I began to close and lock the other doors and back hatch, then walked over to where they were all standing. I noticed the wild looks passersby were giving once they realized why I had been detained. I heard the older officer asking, "The gun was unloaded, right? It was locked and separate from the ammo, right? So he's transporting it in accordance with state law." The younger officer turned to me, holding the 1911-style Colt with the slide now locked back. He released the catch and the slide went forward. He looked at it, and then at me, and then back at the gun in his hand. Somewhat hesitantly, he asked, "How do you decock it?" I stared at him. He didn't blink. After a moment, I told him to put his thumb between the hammer and slide and let the hammer down. He was having trouble with this, so I told him, "If you're SURE it's empty, you can point it at the wall over there and clear it." He did as I suggested, and pointed it at the wall. Squinting in anticipation of losing his job, he took the last of the slack out of the trigger - *click* - and opened his eyes. He handed the gun back to me. I immediately performed a chamber check, then smiled at him. The older officer thanked me for my time. I locked the gun back in the case and set it on the back floor. The younger officer apologized, citing necessary heightened security since 9/11. I nodded, thanked him for doing his job, and walked around to the driver's side. The airport security officer was holding my door open. I thanked him for doing such a thorough job as he apologized for taking my time, also citing security measures. He then closed my door for me, and reset the gate ticket machine in front of my car. I told him what a great job he was doing, and pulled forward. I parked my car and waltzed upstairs into the terminal, past the security guards and the large USAF staff sergeant with the Big Mac, laughing all the way to the gate. --- Edited to include a missing detail.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 11:05:52 PM EDT
Damn, Ryan....Do you have to give us heart attacks????? [:D]
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 11:15:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 11:36:49 PM EDT
Devil Dog, I weep for you Kalifornians- so much of your story pisses me off to no end. From your poor state's lack of freedom to how naive and clueless you are about VOLUNTARILY registering your weapon, to the fact that you don't know what to do with your weapon when stopped by the law. If I seem like an asshole for pointing all of this out, please forgive me, but someone has to tell you. 1.) All of your guns must be "locked and in the case, seperate from any ammo?" Give me a break- talk about being completely useless for self defense. I'm sure that all of the drug-crazed gang members also follow this law when in the course of their daily criminal behavior. I feel sorry for you to have to live with such a retarded statewide firearm policy. Don't get me started on the other firearm bans/regulations/bullshit that you Kalifornians have to put up with. 2.) You have a VOLUNTARY registration form from the CA DOJ. Talk about idiotic- why go along with such an unnecessary and un-American scheme? Maybe enough sheeple will register enough guns voluntarily that CA will make registration mandatory (after all, so many are already complying). Registration is a mistake, and is historically the prepatory command for even tighter regulations/bans. Register your car with the state- keep your guns within your own spehere of control; your legally owned guns are none of Kalifornia's damned business. 3.)You didn't have the weapon cleared by the time the cops got there (mag out, slide LOCKED to the rear, showing an empty chamber). Remember boot camp--- 'condition 4' mean anything to you??? If I were a cop pulling you over, I would feel much safer seeing a condition 4 weapon-wouldn't you? This is true anytime you are stopped and have the time to properly clear the weapon for inspection. 4.) You actually BELIEVE that you have the right to NOT open a gun case when you are on Federal property. Read the sign on the way in, the one that clearly states that you consent to any search of your vehicle and/or body by entering onto Fed. property. At least you told the guy you had a gun- he would have found it anyway and raised hell about you trying to sneak it in!
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 11:51:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dissipator556: Devil Dog, I weep for you Kalifornians- so much of your story pisses me off to no end. From your poor state's lack of freedom to how naive and clueless you are about VOLUNTARILY registering your weapon, to the fact that you don't know what to do with your weapon when stopped by the law. If I seem like an asshole for pointing all of this out, please forgive me, but someone has to tell you.
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No one has to tell me anything. You have the right to speak your mind... or not.
1.) All of your guns must be "locked and in the case, seperate from any ammo?" Give me a break- talk about being completely useless for self defense. I'm sure that all of the drug-crazed gang members also follow this law when in the course of their daily criminal behavior. I feel sorry for you to have to live with such a retarded statewide firearm policy. Don't get me started on the other firearm bans/regulations/bullshit that you Kalifornians have to put up with.
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This is the only legal way to transport here. And I'm not about to leave it at home.
2.) You have a VOLUNTARY registration form from the CA DOJ. Talk about idiotic- why go along with such an unnecessary and un-American scheme? Maybe enough sheeple will register enough guns voluntarily that CA will make registration mandatory (after all, so many are already complying). Registration is a mistake, and is historically the prepatory command for even tighter regulations/bans. Register your car with the state- keep your guns within your own spehere of control; your legally owned guns are none of Kalifornia's damned business.
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The form says voluntary at the top. It's the only registration form we have and it's required when the gun changes hands.
3.)You didn't have the weapon cleared by the time the cops got there (mag out, slide LOCKED to the rear, showing an empty chamber). Remember boot camp--- 'condition 4' mean anything to you??? If I were a cop pulling you over, I would feel much safer seeing a condition 4 weapon-wouldn't you? This is true anytime you are stopped and have the time to properly clear the weapon for inspection.
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I found these people very amusing. I was apparently wrong to believe every LEO would know what to do with it (this fellow was probably an exception). I'm not going to wave my gun around in an airport, though. Let THEM take it out and check it. I'm not here for their convenience.
4.) You actually BELIEVE that you have the right to NOT open a gun case when you are on Federal property. Read the sign on the way in, the one that clearly states that you consent to any search of your vehicle and/or body by entering onto Fed. property. At least you told the guy you had a gun- he would have found it anyway and raised hell about you trying to sneak it in!
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No sh!t. I'm not stupid. But this was a private security company, not a federal employee. I'm not sympathetic to you for being pissed off, especially since some of it is at me. I didn't do anything wrong and I was more than professional enough. And so were they. Everyone did exactly what he/she was supposed to do. Go rant about meeting inmates if you're bored and lonely 'cause Jodie's got your girlfriend.
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 12:29:55 AM EDT
I'll rise to the bait... ...but only to tell you to go back in the morning and re-read my comments. By then, you won't be all full of piss and vinegar about your little run-in, and can take my comments for the unvarnished, honest advice/commentary that they are. If I thought I was talking to a senstive little girl, I would have been much more diplomatic and gentle. But since I am not, I stand by my advice and comments, and feel that you have seriously misinterpreted my motives for posting. For the record, I was much more upset about the shit that you Kali folks have to go through to keep/bear arms than your inexperienced, minor mistakes made at the airport. Tommorrow, if you still feel that you made absolutely no mistakes whatsoever, and decide to learn nothing from your recent experience, then so be it. By the way, the military id thing was good thinking, but always WITH your license. That way you don't look like a pompous ass kisser who is looking for a professional courtesy-pass. Also, your license has things that your mil id doesn't, like your drivers lic. id# and stuff like that- in addition to having 2 forms of good id to be more credible. I'm surprised they didn't ask for both, plus a body cavity search!
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 4:17:54 AM EDT
Ryan's right about transport out here. Believe it or not, if I had my M1991A1SS in the case, no mag, and ONE ROUND of LOOSE ammunition in the case, KSSR considers it a LOADED weapon (even if the round is stuck under the foam or something...) EVEN if the ammo is the wrong calibre... Stupid, I agree. But it's the law we are saddled with. Ryan - good job - you kept your cool. I'm a bit surprised about the ease demonstrated by the LEO's, but some are still cool. I like the "decock" bit - too damn many people are too used to the crunchentickers that are general issue these days to know what to do with a useful sidearm... FFZ SMS, USAFSOCOM, (ret)
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 4:51:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mcwarrior:
Originally Posted By dissipator556: 2.) You have a VOLUNTARY registration form from the CA DOJ. Talk about idiotic- why go along with such an unnecessary and un-American scheme? Maybe enough sheeple will register enough guns voluntarily that CA will make registration mandatory (after all, so many are already complying). Registration is a mistake, and is historically the prepatory command for even tighter regulations/bans. Register your car with the state- keep your guns within your own spehere of control; your legally owned guns are none of Kalifornia's damned business.
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The form says voluntary at the top. It's the only registration form we have and it's required when the gun changes hands.
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The form may say "voluntary" on it, but all handguns in California have to be registered with the state. The reason it may say voluntary is that I think it's still legal for a father to give a firearm to his son. However, if they ran the serial number and got the father's name when the son is claiming it's his gun, it's entirely possible that the officer would arrest the son and let someone else figure out if it's worth prosecuting. No officer is going to catch any heat for arresting someone who is apparently in violation of the law. Dissipator: in CA, your legally owned guns are exactly the business of the state. If you skip the state paperwork, they're not legally owned and you're a criminal. The laws may be wrong, but there's nothing wrong with anyone who is in full compliance with them.
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 5:58:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mcwarrior: He repeated, "I think I need to call the police." He walked away with a nervous look on his face. I sat there, alone with my .45, now sitting open on the seat next to me. He radioed in to the SJPD, and resumed anxiously searching my car. ---
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If you have concern about someone you stopped, does this seem like a smart thing to do? Turn your back to make a phone call?
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 6:06:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 6:28:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By qwijibo: The form may say "voluntary" on it, but all handguns in California have to be registered with the state. The reason it may say voluntary is that I think it's still legal for a father to give a firearm to his son. However, if they ran the serial number and got the father's name when the son is claiming it's his gun, it's entirely possible that the officer would arrest the son and let someone else figure out if it's worth prosecuting. No officer is going to catch any heat for arresting someone who is apparently in violation of the law. Dissipator: in CA, your legally owned guns are exactly the business of the state. If you skip the state paperwork, they're not legally owned and you're a criminal. The laws may be wrong, but there's nothing wrong with anyone who is in full compliance with them.
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When I transfered the Colt to my son he was still 19. Here in CA a person under 21 with a hand gun NOT registered to them can be charged with a crime. It was legal for me to give him the gun but due to his age [b]I[/b] thought it in his best interests to do a legal transfer per the laws of CA so [i]if[/i] this kind of situation ever arose he would walk away with his freedom and gun rather than as qwijibo said, get busted and letting the courts and lawyers settle things out - at our financial expense. As a personal rant, I do not understand why some people tear us here in CA a new one for registering our handuns when just about EVERYBODY on this board warns about the hazards of putting post ban uppers on pre ban lowers, making sure your barrel is not too short, not having full auto parts in a semi, etc. As if the BATF hangs out at the local podunk range looking for violators. The [i]average[/i] officer on the street wouldn't know the difference between a legal and illegally configured gun. Just that it's a gun. They want to know if it's legally owned and transported. Not whether you have a muzzle brake or flash suppressor on the end. If a cop finds me carrying a gun in my car, takes no action, and lets me go on my merry way because it's "registered", the good for me. I'll worry about the consequences of registering it when I see you Cali bashers walk the streets of our capitol with a M16 in your hands.
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 6:43:28 PM EDT
I'm glad everything turned out ok for you. I'm even more glad I live in Texas and I wear my gun into the airport. Maybe eventually, common sense will prevail.
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 7:02:43 PM EDT
tear us here in CA a new one for registering our handuns when just about EVERYBODY on this board warns about the hazards of putting post ban uppers on pre ban lowers...
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Good point. You can get out from under CA law by moving elsewhere within the US. For us to get out from under the BATF, we'd have to move out of the country. That's the difference. Of course, I'm being a hypocrite. I'm from a state (South Carolina) with mandatory new handgun registration, one handgun per 30 day limit, no CCW renewals (well, the state police claim they're going get around to doing it sometime), not many new CCW's issued (even though we're a shall-issue state, on paper anyway), overly complicated rules on where you can carry if you're lucky enough to be granted a permit, and an "alter ego" defense of others doctrine.z
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 7:23:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2002 7:24:39 PM EDT by dissipator556]
Pathfinder, As for bashing Kali- I have no qualms whatsoever with pointing out that queer state's glaring injustices in its firearm laws. No problems whatsoever here! As for your assertion that I am being a hypocrite for opposing firearm registration, while I preach about how to NOT break Federal firearm laws- there is a huge difference between obeying a mandatory federal law that can land my ass in federal prison for 20 years, and obeying a voluntary registration scheme designed to scare honest, law abiding citizens like you and your son into a registration scheme that tells the state exactly how many guns you have, and where you have them. If it is truly voluntary, I can't see why anyone would be scared into going along with it. I pray to God that when National registration comes along (and it will, as long as honest folks can be scared into it by the liberals)that all of us do not so willingly conform as the scared sheeple of Kalistan have. By the way, I am hoping that you guys out there in Kali are active in the NRA and/or GOA, if you plan to see your grandchildren someday own that fine weapon.
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 8:52:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By dissipator556: There is a huge difference between obeying a mandatory federal law that can land my ass in federal prison for 20 years, and obeying a voluntary registration scheme designed to scare honest, law abiding citizens like you and your son into a registration scheme that tells the state exactly how many guns you have, and where you have them. If it is truly voluntary, I can't see why anyone would be scared into going along with it.
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It's not voluntary, remember? Otherwise I wouldn't do it.
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 9:17:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2002 9:28:16 PM EDT by cnatra]
Originally Posted By dissipator556: 4.) You actually BELIEVE that you have the right to NOT open a gun case when you are on Federal property. Read the sign on the way in, the one that clearly states that you consent to any search of your vehicle and/or body by entering onto Fed. property.
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He was [b]NOT[/b] on Federal property!!!!! Do you actually think the Federal Governmant owns all the airports in the USA ??? LOL! These facilities are almost always owned or managed by the Municipal or County Governments for the given community! (I'm sure there are exceptions, Washington National & Dulles probably) Not until one enters the "secure" area in the Terminal do Federal Laws apply. Unless some of the 50 states have more stringent laws of their own that supercede Federal law. I gaurantee you that airport & all the land that it's on is STATE, COUNTY or MUNICIPAL property! The "secure" area is inside the terminal NOT the parking lot. The "premises" of a Federal Facility (not courthouse, this has exceptions) is the "building,structure or part thereof..." I've made about a half dozen trips to pick people up at the airport since 9/11 here in TX (not KALI thank goodness) & as long as the weapon is left in the vehicle or outside the "secure" area then NO problem. In fact I've been in the bottom area of the terminal where baggage claim is to meet someone after arriving on a flight with a pistol on my belt under my shirt & CCW permit in my wallet. NO metal detectors etc. Perfectly legal! It was not a secure area that had direct access to the terminal or gates.
Link Posted: 1/8/2002 11:11:08 PM EDT
Had that been an AR15 under the seat, registered or not, there would have been a major problem. Love these CA gun laws!
Link Posted: 1/12/2002 6:32:31 PM EDT
Several weeks ago a man and his wife were arrested at a local major airport for having a couple of guns in their car. They were pulling up to the terminal to pick up their son. The news story said that it was now illegal to have a firearm within 300 feet or yards, I can't remember which, of an airport terminal. They said it was a new FAA ruling. They are searching vehicles at this airport except the ones parking out in the remote parking lots.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 7:20:03 PM EDT
Just because I'm curious about these things... How many of you have been hassled at airports, by airport security/employees or police, for ANY reason, since 9/11? When I flew for Thanksgiving, I was subjected to three "random" searches. For the fourth search, they called my name over the PA system and pulled me out of line before ever "randomly" scanning ANYTHING on my boarding pass. Now, I may very well be paranoid, but has anyone else here, posting on this GUN WEB PAGE ever had any thoughts about this?
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 7:41:16 PM EDT
Sorry to hear about your troubles, but what do you expect when you have idiots at every level of government? The level of fear and paranoia about every little thing has reached absurd proportions. The breaking point will come, it has to. See what you get for being honest about having a firearms in the car? Had you not said a word, they probably would never have even noticed it.
Link Posted: 2/11/2002 9:08:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mcwarrior: How many of you have been hassled at airports, by airport security/employees or police, for ANY reason, since 9/11?
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Ohare (Chicago), a couple of months ago. I asked them to hand-inspect a camera. They insisted that dey don' do dat shit. I told them that there was a clearly worded sign fifteen feet back up the aisle. Dey still don' do dat shit. Dey called a soopervizer to explain to me that dey don' do dat shit. Then, the little bastard practically strip-searched me in retaliation for my having dared to ask him to follow posted policy and hand-inspect my camera.
Link Posted: 2/12/2002 4:39:57 AM EDT
Umm, so I guess that wouldn't be a good time to yell at the guy for dropping the slide on an empty chamber... [:|]
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