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Posted: 8/16/2007 9:46:15 AM EDT

Heard the news today. Apparently Chavez has now gone too far.

I wonder how he feels abotu Castro and Morelas.
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 9:55:24 AM EDT
I guess I missed it. What did Chavez do lately?
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 9:57:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Greenhorn:
I guess I missed it. What did Chavez do lately?

pretty much declared himself dictator for life
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 10:02:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:

Originally Posted By Greenhorn:
I guess I missed it. What did Chavez do lately?

pretty much declared himself dictator for life


Oh, good. Now he can fix all the problems in his country without the polticians getting in his way! The people are blessed!

Link Posted: 8/16/2007 10:03:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By enemy:
Heard the news today. Apparently Chavez has now gone too far.

I wonder how he feels abotu Castro and Morelas.


No offense to you directly, but if you "socialist friend" took this long to see the writing on the wall, he isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 10:04:13 AM EDT
So is he hot?
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 10:05:09 AM EDT
Your friends with a socialist? Why?
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 10:14:57 AM EDT
He hasn't done it yet, but he is sure positioning himself to be Pres for Life.



Chavez taking over

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez Proposes Changes to Constitution Allowing His Perpetual Re-Election.

Wednesday, August 15, 2007

CARACAS, Venezuela —

President Hugo Chavez called for changes to Venezuela's constitution Wednesday night, delivering a key address pitching reforms that are expected to allow him to be re-elected indefinitely.

Chavez, speaking to the National Assembly, said the changes affect "less than 10 percent" of the constitution but would bring Venezuela "new horizons for the new era." Chavez, who is seeking to transform Venezuelan society along socialist lines, denied he wants lifelong power as his opponents allege.

"They accuse me of making plans to be in power forever or to concentrate power. We know it isn't like that. It's power of the people," Chavez said. "So many lies in the world. I doubt there is any country on this planet with a democracy more alive than the one we enjoy in Venezuela today."

Critics accuse Chavez of seeking to remain as president for decades to come, like his close friend Fidel Castro in Cuba. They argue his main goal is to expand his power and ensure he will be able to run again in 2012.

Chavez's political allies firmly control the National Assembly, which is expected to approve the reform plan within months. The plan then would have to be approved by citizens in a national referendum.

Chavez has previously stressed the need to do away with presidential term limits that currently prevent him from seeking re-election in 2012. But he began his speech discussing what he called a transition to "a new society" and other reforms, including territorial changes.

"There are 33 articles that starting tomorrow will begin to be read, analyzed, criticized," Chavez said, adding that with the speech "a great debate" begins. He made clear who he expects to oppose him, saying: "We can defeat the forces of (U.S.) imperialism and the servile oligarchy."

Before lawmakers, Chavez held up a small copy of the country's current constitution, dating to his first term in 1999, and called it one of the world's "most advanced" but said he and members of a presidential commission have been "working intensely" on ways to improve it.

Chavez waved to a crowd of cheering supporters as he walked into the legislature with fireworks exploding overhead. His opponents, meanwhile, attacked the reform plan.

"Chavez is seeking to reduce the territory held by the opposition and give his intention to remain in power a legal foundation," said Gerardo Blyde, an opposition leader and former lawmaker.

He said many other reforms are likely to be "red capes" like those used by a bullfighter "to distract Venezuelans from his real objective."

Venezuela's Roman Catholic Bishops' Conference has also complained that Chavez's reform proposals were drafted without public involvement.

Chavez, a former paratrooper commander who was first elected in 1998, denies copying Cuba and insists that personal freedoms will be respected. He and his supporters say democracy has flourished under his administration, noting he has repeatedly won elections by wide margins.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Wednesday that the United States would wait for details of Chavez's proposal before commenting on it. He added that Chavez in the past "has taken a number of different steps ... that have really eroded some of the underpinnings of democracy in Venezuela."

Since his re-election to a new six-year term in December, Chavez has alarmed opponents who claim that he is headed toward Cuba-style communism.

Chavez, a former paratrooper commander who was first elected in 1998, denies copying Cuba and insists that personal freedoms will be respected. He and his supporters say democracy has flourished under his administration, noting he has repeatedly won elections by wide margins.

Chavez pushed through a new constitution in 1999, shortly after he was first elected. He said the charter must be redrafted so that Venezuela's capitalist system "finishes dying" to make way for socialism.

Ahead of Chavez's speech, actors sang in the National Assembly as they performed a scene from the life of South American independence hero Simon Bolivar, the spiritual father of the socialist movement that Chavez calls the Bolivarian Revolution.

Crowds of red-clad supporters cheered outside the National Assembly, holding flags and signs reading: "Yes to the reform, on the path to 21st Century Socialism." Giant video screens were set up, and folk music blared from sound trucks near a two-story-tall inflatable figure of Chavez.


Link Posted: 8/16/2007 11:04:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By resistor:
Your friends with a socialist? Why?


Probably sex.
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 11:09:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2007 11:10:18 AM EDT by Cypher15]
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 11:10:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By resistor:
Your friends with a socialist? Why?


I have all sorts of acquaintances who believe all sorts of wierd things, but I don't think I would want to hang around with a socialist. Or a Nazi.
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 11:21:22 AM EDT
That's the thing about Socialists - They're constantly making excuses for their tyrants (or trying to disassociate them from "the cause") - without ever admitting that the Socialism itself may have had a hand in making them tyrants in the first place. In a believer's eyes, Socialism is a perfect concept - it just hasn't ever been successfully executed.
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 11:23:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Skibane:
That's the thing about Socialists - They're constantly making excuses for their tyrants...


Yes, with Castro it's "Free medical care" and "All of Cuba's problems are the USA's fault".

With Chavez it's "He was Democratically elected."
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 12:46:47 PM EDT

He's also a Boy Scout (Eagle). All around good guy. Just dosen't see the connection between the structural problems associated with socialism and socialist policy.


This Chavez guy is a great case study.

Anyone know what their oil deposits are like?
Link Posted: 8/16/2007 12:52:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Skibane:
That's the thing about Socialists - They're constantly making excuses for their tyrants (or trying to disassociate them from "the cause") - without ever admitting that the Socialism itself may have had a hand in making them tyrants in the first place. In a believer's eyes, Socialism is a perfect concept - it just hasn't ever been successfully executed.


Same with communists.

Name a communist/socialist nation that WASN'T a dictatorship where the people were oppressed.

*crickets chirp*
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