Guys,

I need some creative ideas to help my parents out. They live in the Seattle area and bought property near Aberdeen/Gray's Harbor about ten years ago. It's a 40 acre parcel with a road going thru it. The road has always been gated and closed to the public, but was considered a county road because of an agreement made in the early 1900's with the land owners. Between then and now, the county failed to live up to it's end of the bargain and after years of tormenting the County Comissioners trying to get them to vacate the road and more importantly let them build on their own property, the road is private again.

Ok, so getting back to the land: The woods around their property have been logged by Weyerhouser, and people just LOVE to come out there to dump trash, shoot, go on a walkabout etc. My parents have been polite for several years, telling them to leave, putting signs up etc. They are still having problems-the locks on the gates get cut off, the signs get shot, and directly telling people they aren't supposed to be there is a serious problem now. My mother spends a lot of time there thru the week while my dad is at work, she's going from Middle Aged to Little Old Ladyhood. The last time she tried to tell one of these guys to leave, he cussed her out, told her that my parents didn't belong there, was a general asshole. He was also armed-he had a rifle with him.

My mom is a 1960's era farm girl turned pacifist. She's not ideologically opposed to 'guns', but not really into the idea of anything other than hunting and target rifles. My Dad was in the USAF in the 1970's and has little use for guns. In the past they have made mention of getting something like a Remington 700 "for bears and cougar" while on the property. Well, I think they have thawed out a little-my Mom mentioned getting a rifle again for "Just in case", so I offered her my CMP Garand (Get off my lawn (TM) and a lot faster follow up shots than a Rem. 700) not being too sure what my Dad would think about it. Turns out that he's ok with the idea so I have been going about getting the gun set up for low light shooting by non-gun people. I picked up a scout rail for it and will probably fit it with a Reflex sight and a flashlight.

What I need are ideas on how to stop the trespassing problem. Mom is already asking me about game cameras-which I know little about-to catch these guys. I like the idea of getting their license plate numbers and sending them warning letters if plate numbers are public information in WA state. If I had my way, I'd go out and spend a week camping there and send a few packing "my way", but that isn't realistic or feasible.

What have you guys done to fix trespassing problems on properties that you can't stay at full time? My parents are starting their construction plans and I'd hate to see everything they do get burned to the ground by some shithead who thinks he has more right to the property than they do because he has trespassed there for the last 20 years.

outside of putting up "privately owned land - no tresspassing"

and getting every car towed and violator arrested that you can...  not a whole lot to do.  

An AR would be better for her. Lighter, less recoil.

Spike strips, caltrops.

Only legal thing I can think of is post the property, run fencing and call the police/file trespass charges against everyone you catch on the property.

Barb wire fence, trenching out the road, some hired guns. We could have an AR15.com party with all the class 3 guys, the sound of automatic fire will deter any trespasser. Also, make friends with the Sheriff and his deputies, invite them for weekend BBQ's.

Get the law involved.  Call the county Sheriff and let them handle it.  That's why your parents pay taxes.

Hang a trespasser on the fence?

M1 carbine... or I shudder to say it a Mini-14 might fit the bill here for your mother too.

It seems wooden stocks and no pistol grips are a common theme when mentally getting quasi-anti's over the "firepower hump" as it were.

I'm pretty sure that won't fly with my parents. If I could get her anything, it would be a 9mm AR-we are talking about a retirement aged woman who has not shot a gun since she was a kid, there's no sense in getting her something that she won't use.

Hmm.... Marlin Camp 9.... I just need to find something that she won't get freaked out about-they aren't at a point where they need to walk their property with an AR at all times yet, that's a pretty big psychological leap for my parents.

In 2010, an Arfcommer was sent to prison by a military court for a crime he didn't commit. This man promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Seattle underground. Today, still wanted by the government, he survives as a soldier of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find him, maybe you can hire the E-Team.

Seriously, though. I'll kill them all for tree fiddy.

If you can't afford the tree fiddy, I'd recommend that you have Mom start wandering around with Fox Labs and/or a Taser if she isn't DTF with the G19.

The best way to make someone stay off your property is to make them think there is a risk of them being seriously injured. We have signs posted warning of cyanide guns and leg hold traps around our property right next to the No trespassing signs. Ranchers in West Texas will use Hydrogen Sulfide signs. Something about bear traps would probably work for y'all.

That's what I told my mom-she doesn't want to bother the sheriff's department because they are stretched pretty thin. I told her an armed trespasser on her property is a whole different class of asshole than someone coming to dump or shoot cans on the weekend. I brought up the tax thing too and her response was that they were only absentee land owners for the moment-I told her "in for a penny, in for a pound".

They are paying for police service.  Use it.

water bar the road.  

If you make it so the people have walk into the property, opposed to drive.  That should get rid of the majority of them.
Aside from that.  Game cameras and no trespassing/private property signs.  Then turn the pictures over to the local LEO agency.

That sucks.  Make sure the property is posted in full compliance with your state's tresspassing laws.

Aberdeen is a lovely area but I feel their pain. If they are anywhere near a main road there will be a lot of people trying to hunt anywhere they can that does not take much travel time.

There are quite a few arfcommers in her general vicinity if she needs some instruction/guidance with her new weapon of choice or setting up game cameras. In fact, IM me and we will see if we can get her squared away.

Talk to a tow company about putting up their signs.  For them it is like panning for gold.

I thought the same thing or an M1 carbine/Mini-14/Marlin Camp 9

Not knowing your mom I still ahve troubel seeing a little old lady swinging that monster around and trying to rip off a few shots (plus clip changes may be too much for her).

As for the trespassing- invest in a small camcorder and start sending data to the local po-po. One thing your parents are running up against is local inertia- i.e. the land has been used with impunity for decades so some little old lady/guy showing up and saying "this is my property get off it" may not be believed.

Constantine Wire

Fell trees to limit access if there still are any left. You can also do this with big piles of dirt.



Like I read in another thread in GD, start a rumer you grazed a tresspasser with a shot :P

I'll see what I can do-thanks for the offer.

What are WA's trespassing laws like?

I like this.....

Weld the gate shut.  Place boulders or a huge dirt berm on the road behind the gate.  Might as well get both sides of the property at the same time.

This is going to be your main problem.

Land may have been public before it was logged or owned by someone who didn't care about other people using the land for whatever.

The U.S. Forest Service routinely trades land around my area that they have logged for other land that better suits their management plan or joins current holdings, so this may be a real possibility.

People in rural areas are slow to recognize a sudden change in ownership or access to a piece of property they have hunted, dumped trash on, or simply crossed their entire lives.

The local people see your parents as invaders in their area who moved down from the city and are trying to change things from "the way they have always been".

Your parents will have to slowly change their minds.  In my opinion the worst thing you can do is put up a gate and plaster the place with "No Tresspassing" signs.

This immediately signals that the new owners are hostile to neighbors and in my area does more harm than good.

The best thing to do is actually be open, your parents need to meet the locals and explain that they now own the property and plan to build a home and live there.

It will finally sink in to the locals that this place is owned by "somebody" and they will find somewhere else to go.

Same advice i gave in the other thread
Couple of these

Interlaced with some of these

Dig some of these near fields of approach

Automated paintball turrets activated by a keyfob.

A little of this

And liberal use of


Problem solved.

I agree with him, except I'd go for a Mini 30 since it uses a larger diameter bullet and any use will be at close range. The Garand is great, but imagine Mom with a bad case of Garand thumb and you'll understand why it's probably not the best tool for the job.

First, they need to post the property. Everywhere. Put the signs up in trees where they can't be pulled down.



Then they need to record the posting (take pictures). Here, if you contact LEO (sheriff or police) they will note in their records that its posted after they come out and observe the signs. What does that do? Well, when you call them it comes up in their GIS that its posted.



Then they need to physically barrier the road. If they enter the property at one gate, then the other gate needs to be replaced with a berm or some other fixed obstacle that isn't a gate.



Fencing. Its going to get pulled down, but its necessary.



Aggressive enforcement. They need to call the sheriff (assuming they are in the county) on every trespasser when ever they see one.



Recording. Game cameras are good, but they have to take action too. If there is a license plate in the picture, they have to go after the trespasser. They should never confront a trespasser without some sort of record (video camera) - which can go bad early if your parents actions exceed what state law say is reasonable with trespassers.



Physical presence. You mom is already there. If they want this property, they have to defend it. By confronting trespassers; by taking legal action against them; and by understanding that some of these trespassers may be aggressive in return.



Legal and liability. They need to be fully knowledgeable about what they can and cannot due in regards to a trespasser under Washington state law. They need to be prepared to do everything they legally can do and avoid stepping across the line.



It sucks that property rights aren't respected by the average person, but its up to them.

 

If she is not going to learn and be willing to use a firearm then there is not much use in getting one.  She will probably end up shooting herself or a ND.



As to the trespassers, set up cameras and get the police involved. Really though, the problem is they have let it go on for so long, it sounds like the problem has been left to fester till its too big to fix.

Spike the shit out of the roads leading in and out of the property.

They need to call the police every time they have a trespasser or something is dumped.  If this doesn't clear things up in a couple months they need to move.  It's just a matter of time before one of these confrontations goes hands on.

From what you've said whatever you get her is irrelevant.



She's not going to use it on a trespasser.

Fences, ditches, better gates, locks. One of my ranges has a gate  you'd have to bulldoze down. Some concrete, steel and the right design and they're in business.

One of my bros, "Crazy Mac", would plug any (unoccupied) vehicle with his HiPower. The word got around.



We did this with good success at a duck club. If you can channel traffic it's a good tactic. We didn't have to bother. The idiots cut our fence in the same locations- lazy turds. Boards, big ass nails, shallow trench and some leaves.

Push that four wheeler home, douche!

Invest in one of these.

Well, being armed with just about any gun would work.  Don't worry so much about what type, but worry about getting it so she uses it (and it's not taken away from her) when needed.  Even a 10/22 or something.  If your mom is more afraid of the gun she's holding than she is the trespasser...

If I had property, I would post a sign that said something like this:"Keep out Private Property! Warning! Land Owner actively hunts and target shoots. You are entering a designated shooting area."

Post Sign:

WARNING SEVERE TIRE DAMAGE
STAY ON ROADWAY

place spike strips generously about property/

Hire private security for a couple of Saturdays and Sundays Put up a remote game camera that emails you the pictures.


Concrete barricades

http://wrekinconcreteproducts.goods.officelive.com/wrekinconcreteproducts.aspx

No Trespassing Signs

http://www.stopsignsandmore.com/c-27-no-trespassing-signs.aspx?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=cpc%20&utm_term=no%20trespassing%20signage&utm_content=52157827512&utm_campaign=8125824012

Spike strips with a BIG FUCKING WARNING SIGN ABOUT said spike strips and how you need to get off of PRIVATE PROPERTY

http://www.chiefsupply.com/Vehicle_Equipment/Spike_Systems/SPIKES

never mind

Ok, I can only take so much of this. When did a Roman Emporer develop razor wire? NEVER THATS WHEN!

Concertina wire or Dannert Wire is a type of barbed wire or razor wire that is formed in large coils which can be expanded like a concertina. Each coil actually consists of two oppositely wound helices which support each other against crushing while allowing easy longitudinal movement. In conjunction with plain barbed wire and steel pickets, it is used to form military wire obstacles. During World War I soldiers manufactured concertina wire themselves, using ordinary barbed wire. Today it is factory made.

Concertina wire packs flat for ease of transport, but can then be deployed as an obstacle much more quickly than ordinary barbed wire.

A platoon of soldiers can deploy a single concertina fence at a rate of about a kilometer per hour. Such an obstacle is not very effective by itself, and concertinas are normally built up into more elaborate patterns as time permits.

Concertina wire is sometimes mistakenly called constantine wire. "Constantine" probably came from a corruption/misunderstanding of "Concertina" and led to confusion with the Roman Emperor Constantine. This in turn has led to some people trying to differentiate between concertina wire and "constantine" wire by assigning the latter term to what is commonly known as razor wire. In contrast to the double-helical construction of concertina wire, as shown being deployed by soldiers in the image, razor wire, or less commonly "constantine wire", consists of a single wire with projecting teeth periodically along its length.

Lemme break it down Barney style with some pictures. This is a Concertina, notice the shape, which is oddly reminiscent of the wire we are discussing.......Hence the nickname.


This is the Roman Emporer Constantine I. Also known as Constantine the Great. Please notice that nowhere in this depiction is there a hint of a double helical wire structure used to slow troop movements or set up defenses. Look closely....Yep, nothing to do with this guy.


Thank you, Thread hijack over.

i love GD

seriously call the law. and fence the fuck out of the place. drop some trees across the road if you want to go extreme

in the spirit of GD though.. fence with high barbwire and chain link, and invest in a pack of starving hyenas or lions, or both

and dont forget to put up game cameras for ensuing hilarity

Devious, I like it.

Oh, it's definitely a problem, the question is: Should my parents have t accept it as "their" problem? My parents aren't exactly unknown in the area-my mom made the paper a whole bunch of times and got the electorate pissed off as hell at the County over the grief they gave my parents over building on their land. It turns out that the County was licking Weyerhauser's balls and acting in their best interests rather than the County's. On top of that, one of the Council Members owns land from that immediate area and may have had development plans  after the area was all logged out-it's hard to say what really went on there, but the County did everything in their power to stop my parents from doing anything with the land. Imagine buying a $40k parcel and being told you couldn't build a house on it unless you paid for 1/4 mile of paved road up to your driveway out of pocket.... And that was just ONE problem they caused. One of the commisioners was fired recently, and I think that broke the logjam for my parents. Now they just have to deal with the permit guy who has been making progress difficult. That asshole has made my mom come back FOUR TIMES to get her driveway permit squared away.

My Mom has been on TV, in the paper, has protested outside the county building, polarized the voters, she is very well known to the county. Just not to the people who are not smart enough to commit Armed Trespass. The land has always been private, I don't think Weyerhauser owns the land they logged. Since nobody has ever been there to stop them, the trespassers just see it as being there for their use.

It would be one thing if the people were just passing thru, but dumping and shooting the place up are not something my parents should have to compromise on.

I had to great uncles have this problem in Kentucky many years ago, as the family tale goes.

Both inherited this piece of property jointly.  Both also did three tours in Vietnam, and thus for most of a decade there was no one regularly living there.  Local deadbeats had been using the cabin as a party house when the guys were deployed.  There were also some camp sites they would use to party, even when people were obviously living in the cabin.

One Saturday afternoon, the two Uncles were drinking, bored, and discussing this issue and how to deal with it.

One went inside and got a shot gun and a box of shells.  He came out and fired a couple of rounds into the air, and shouted "I think I got one" at the top of his lungs.  My other uncle grinned and ran inside to get a rifle.

Thus they went all over the property shooting, and shouting "Did ya get em?" and other such things.




Someone must have heard them, cause they never had problems with trespassers again.

I also have a wonderful ghillie suit and I think a fun weekend could be had popping up out of nowhere and giving some verbal warnings about being somewhere you shouldn't.....I may even have some buddies to help.

Even better...lol.

This is very true.

This.

Take back what is yours.

It is YOUR land.