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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:06:57 AM EDT
[#1]
Why not just release an EMP every so often?
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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:07:54 AM EDT
[#2]
IBTL (but agreed...) |
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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:08:37 AM EDT
[#3]
I am pretty sure they must be trying that already, or have a good reason not to. (e.g. what if the bomb blows up as a bunch of children are walking by?).
IEDs seem to be such a big problem that they must have some smart people working on it. I hope. |
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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:09:34 AM EDT
[#4]
thats basically what the IDF does, except they have jammers instead, fairly simple for them as most pali bombs are detonated by a pager or cell phone. now in Iraq they are probably doing the same thing so jammers may be the right idea there too, but it still doesnt stop all of them as you can still have a guy with a peizoelectric detonator(ala claymore) waiting to push the button the idea works for the Israeli army and I think we should try it too. |
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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:09:47 AM EDT
[#5]
I like your idea of the random signals.
There are areas known to be popular IED traps. Set up some in the area so that when the bombers set the bomb.... it explodes before they can get away. (if in fact they use radio signals.) -LS |
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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:11:12 AM EDT
[#6]
MOAB Carpet Bombing
 IBTL |
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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:11:16 AM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:13:29 AM EDT
[#8]
I'm sure the cowards don't care if there is children around when they set them off next to Coalition vehicles. |
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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:13:48 AM EDT
[#9]
I just read an article in one of the Defense Industry publications (I think it was one of the Janes newsletters)..
Anyway the article pointed out 90% of our casualties are from IEDs and went on to discuss some of the ideas they are working on. Yes it is being worked on. |
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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:14:59 AM EDT
[#10]
1st priority I want our soldiers to not get blown up, if the iraqis are setting up IED's I would rather have a iraqi get nailed by it than a GI. If these terrorists are setting this shit up others in the area know about it, yet they do nothing to stop it. You start blowing up a ton of civilians eventually the people will be against them. |
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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:16:25 AM EDT
[#11]
Yeah you would think so but they are taking such a toll on our men 
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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:17:06 AM EDT
[#12]
Yes I totally agree. It's just the darn media would have a field day ("US gizmo detonates bomb, kills XX helpless children"). Stupid CYA.
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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:17:34 AM EDT
[#13]
Notice how few British Convoys get whacked by roadside bombs? Thats because we fit our vehicles with jammers for all the usual radio frequencies of pagers, garage door controllers, central locking fobs etc, etc, we've had them for years, (bombs in Northern Ireland), so just ring up the British Ministry of Defence and they will give or sell you them, I can't work out why your army don't!
ANdy |
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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:19:35 AM EDT
[#14]
so you guys are and we aren't? Whiskey tango foxtrot is all I have to say about that! then again you guys dont have as many troops. |
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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:23:42 AM EDT
[#15]
so you guys are and we aren't? Whiskey tango foxtrot is all I have to say about that! then again you guys dont have as many troops. Yes… that's why we spend the money to keep them safe… but we are the 'poor kids on the block' compared to the US Army… they probably spend more on pencils in a year than we do on bullets… There was a big bust up in the news and papers recently about a British Soldier getting killed by a roadside bomb, not because he was killed, but because his 'new in theatre' vehicle had not had a jammer fitted before it was sent out on patrols. ANdy |
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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:36:26 AM EDT
[#16]
As stated, the Brits and israelis have been doing this for decades. Why we are not more effectivlely doing it is a good question. Expect Kerry to use it in the next debate.
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Posted: 10/13/2004 11:49:06 AM EDT
[#17]
Hate to say it (well, not really) but the lives of OUR guys are more important than those Iraqi children. WE didn't plant the damn IED, and as long as we didn't intentionally detonate it with kids around then I feel we're covered ethically. |
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Posted: 10/14/2004 12:06:17 PM EDT
[#18]
There are a couple of systems that we're using to pre-detonate or jam roadside bombs.
They don't always work, but they exist. And yes, the Brits do have some stuff that we don't, but as was mentioned, there's a lot fewer of them. Our primary roadside bomb/mine detector is the right track of one of my tanks... NTM |
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Posted: 10/14/2004 12:07:18 PM EDT
[#19]
There are a couple of systems that we're using to pre-detonate or jam roadside bombs.
They don't always work, but they exist. And yes, the Brits do have some stuff that we don't, but as was mentioned, there's a lot fewer of them. Our primary roadside bomb/mine detector is the right track of one of my tanks... NTM |
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Posted: 10/14/2004 12:09:58 PM EDT
[#20]
They need to share |
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Posted: 10/14/2004 12:11:01 PM EDT
[#21]
There are less of us but surely the US DoD can find the money to purchase or licence the systems from us?… I'm sure the British MoD would probably give you design for free if the US DoD asked! ANdy |
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Posted: 10/14/2004 12:13:38 PM EDT
[#22]
"sharing' is not the problem Cyanide, we would, we always do with the US, your DoD is just not asking for the information… its's called NIH Syndrome "Not Invented Here". ANdy |
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Posted: 10/14/2004 12:35:50 PM EDT
[#23]
yeah jammers arent a difficult thing so i have no clue why we havent been using them for years. I mean even the french are going to start using them in their theaters now for crying out loud!
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Posted: 10/14/2004 12:37:46 PM EDT
[#24]
+1 |
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Posted: 10/14/2004 12:41:29 PM EDT
[#25]
That and you use Defenders! Go Land Rover. |
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Posted: 10/14/2004 12:59:26 PM EDT
[#26]
As I posted a couple weeks ago a even better device would be to get the 13kw solid state laser out into the field fitted to a Bradley, M113, or Stryker.
We did send one to Afganistan and it worked well dealing with EODs at Bagram AFB and Kabul. We didn't send it to Iraq cause its in a Humvee and one RPG would wipe out 25 Million in equipment. But put it in a AFV and at the front of a column and have it fry every suspicious object and every discolored patch of dirt or pavement. It has even proven able to burrow into the ground at a rate of 40cm/sec to reach buried mines. And when it gets to the package it burns it up rather than causing a explosion (unless they used black powder) since most military and industrial explosives will burn before they explode. Even if the detonator finally cooks off, usually most of the explosive is burned away, so the forces is MUCH reduced. Thus it would not crater roads or damage buildings around where the bomb is planted. |
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Posted: 10/14/2004 1:10:59 PM EDT
[#27]
Please do NOT mistake this post as my personal endorsement for an all out thermo-nuclear solution to the ENTIRE Middle East. That would be wrong of me, and more importantly a violation of the CoC.
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Posted: 10/14/2004 1:19:29 PM EDT
[#28]
 Standard issue… Defender 110 with a .50 M2 and a 7.62 M240Andy |
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Posted: 10/14/2004 1:22:20 PM EDT
[#29]
We are When I was in Iraq we had a system installed in our vehicle. I am not at liberty to talk about it, since it's still being used in the field. From personal experience it's not 100% effective. Here's an article that talks about it, since this has obviously been cleared for public viewing Stryker Brigade News Oh, and very few British convoys get hit as compared to US Conveys is due to the danger level where each group operates. Not putting down the British troops, they were great troops, but they don't travel through the Sunni Triangle as much as US troops. |
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Posted: 10/14/2004 1:28:40 PM EDT
[#30]
we are using RF jammers not all an not all vehicles have them just like radios most convoys dont even have them either. IEDs are either cell phone triggered wire triggered or RF triggered like wireless doorbells or walkie talkies. it was much easier for us to dispose of IED we found with MK19 or 50 than wait 3-4 hours on EOD. point is spot them before.
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Posted: 10/14/2004 1:29:45 PM EDT
[#31]
I heard rumors that land rover will have a us complient 110/90 in 2006 ish. If so my Discovery I will have a new brother! Or if I could talk you into shipping one over piece by piece.
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Posted: 10/14/2004 1:32:51 PM EDT
[#32]
IIRC I read an article towards the beginning of the ass-kicking that's taking place over there.
One of our smarty-pants troops figured out that the majority of the detonators for roadside IEDs were set to use a fairly specific frequency often found in R/C vehicle usage. So he took an R/C control unit, mounted it in his vehicle, and activated it by taping down the control stick. The theory was that it would detonate any IEDs using that frequency range about 200 yards before the vehicle hit the IED. I can't really remember the nitty gritty details of the article though. |
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Posted: 10/14/2004 1:37:33 PM EDT
[#33]
Thats' the point though, isn't it, the US Army is just getting them now, they were available all along, and I'll bet the British ones are better, we had 30 years of field testing in Northern Ireland. The systems were so good, the IRA resorted back to command detonation in the end. There are times when the DoD really should accept that other people hadthis problem sorted years ago… this is one such occassion. IDF also do good jamming gear.The Insurgents down south used to try IED's a lot, but with the almost zero sucess due to jammers from day one, they have now resorted to standard RPG and MG ambushes… bad idea againt regular army that is not afraid to get the bayonets on and get up close and personal…  Andy |
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Posted: 10/14/2004 1:43:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Group buy ! ? ! ? Damn, I want one. With the guns of course. |
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Posted: 10/14/2004 1:47:51 PM EDT
[#35]
I guess it makes to much sense to have American soldiers dress up like locals, and patrol the streets in civilian vehicles during the wee hours of night . Such patrols could then do a "drive by" on anybody they see fucking around along the roadway.
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Posted: 10/14/2004 1:56:54 PM EDT
[#36]
Andy I'll bet it had more to do with who got the contracts (US companies) vs the NIH syndrom. There is a nice article on this subject (procuring here rather than overseas) in this month's issue of 'Armed Forces Journal'. Unfortunetly for our guys to get this better gear it will probably take your firms hiring better sales people and decent lobbyists. |
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Posted: 10/14/2004 2:22:10 PM EDT
[#37]
Don't forget the 'options list'!… MILAN Anti Tank Missile launcher… the second Land Rover have one fiitted to the cage  Andy |
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Posted: 10/14/2004 3:33:55 PM EDT
[#38]
ANdy, For the sake of fairness, you also have to mention how the British troops are in and around Basra and how the Shia population there are very happy about the regime change. BTW, we are working on jammers ourselves. Why we didnn't ask you guys is beyond me. Maybe it's the whole British electrical system in a car thing.
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Posted: 10/15/2004 10:56:57 AM EDT
[#39]
I'll agree Basrah is fairly user friendly these day's but it is still quite lively on the road north to Al Amarah… our Iranian 'friends' like to go walking in the desert… I can only apologise for LUCAS… it was totally unforgivable selling that rubbish, truly the worlds worst auto electrics… That's why I only drive German or Japanese now…I want a vehicle that will start in the rain. Andy |
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Posted: 10/15/2004 11:22:15 AM EDT
[#40]
There are no more debates now |
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Posted: 10/15/2004 11:36:13 AM EDT
[#41]
Here is a unit I was looking at for work.
http://www.spyzone.com/(3v1co2ajchdgeujwnns2etux)/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=542&selection=6&category=26 Not sure how effective it is though. /ProductImages/ManPack.jpg) |
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Posted: 10/15/2004 11:42:14 AM EDT
[#42]
it starts in the rain. The cruise control just dosnt work when its raining. And cant you guys make anything that does not leak oil?
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Posted: 10/15/2004 11:45:17 AM EDT
[#43]
Brit vehicles always have electrical problems. The fact that they give off RF to detonate bombs is a byproduct. My mother-in-law's new Jag convertible has done more road miles on a flat bed tow truck than actually being driven.
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Posted: 10/15/2004 12:36:15 PM EDT
[#44]
You would think we would be using some type of jammer. Not necessarily setting the bombs off but something that jams the radio signal(s) that trigger the bomb. I'm sure there must be a reason we are not doing this. At least I hope so. |
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Posted: 10/15/2004 12:41:02 PM EDT
[#45]
The oil leaks are actually a cunning anti corrosion measure… because it rains so much here all that oil leaking onto the underpan helps keep the rust at bay… Andy |
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Posted: 10/15/2004 12:47:41 PM EDT
[#46]
LOL I have a list of them from a landrover forum. Its a way of telling you when you need to add oil. If its not leaking its out! |
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Posted: 10/15/2004 12:48:49 PM EDT
[#47]
It was tried in Lebanon in the '80s with only mixed success.
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Posted: 10/15/2004 2:32:28 PM EDT
[#48]
We are using some type of jammer. My vehicle in Iraq actually had one. Of course, we were told that the little box they gave us to install cost over $750,000 a piece, so they are not common to see in Iraq. |
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Posted: 10/15/2004 2:47:24 PM EDT
[#49]
I had forgotten about this, but I was talking to a guy who works with DARPA at a party last weekend. He was telling me about this project he's been working on for the last 18 months that will retrofit UAVs to more or less exclusively look for IEDs on roadsides. Camera images get sent back to a laptop in the convoy. I listened to him for a minute and realized his whole project was based on visual spectrum camera imagery. As soon as he finished, I said something like "that's not going to work for shit. There's trash all over, and they're pretty adept at hiding bombs by now." Apparently he'd heard this obvious criticism before and doesn't have an answer, 'cause he got all irritated and never really did come back with anything. I went on to tell him about Soviet anti-tank mines that expelled a shaped plasma penetrator and looked exactly like a boulder, even came with cans of spray paint to match the terrain. He was just like "Well, that's was the Soviets", like these insurgents are amatuers at building IEDs.
It still blows me away when I here about tax dollars being wasted on projects that obviously have no use on the ground. I'm sure the cameras and remote operating equipment and guidance systems and software this project involves are all great stuff, but completely fucking useless. |
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Posted: 10/15/2004 4:34:35 PM EDT
[#50]
What you describe is a classic syptom of why the problem is not being solved… no one want's to design or buy a simple broad-band radio transmitter… because it doesn't sing, dance, play dixie and look good in a promotional video. So you get gazzilions wasted on these way out hi-tech solutions, UCAVs, remote cameras… data links… The neccessary equpment is already combat proven and available off the shelf… "The Allen ECM Shield™ is a modular jamming system developed to counter the threat from Radio Controlled Improvised Explosive Device (RCIED) terrorist attack. The Allen ECM Shield™ uses sophisticated RF technology to transmit a powerful ‘jamming’ signal that inhibits an RCIED control signal that may be used to detonate a device. As the worldwide terrorist threat continues to become ever more sophisticated, security forces and law enforcement agencies must maintain operational capability through more capable hardware and advanced training. The design of the Allen ECM Shield™ makes it a very powerful and effective tool, yet retains user-friendly operation and cost-effectiveness. Threat The modern terrorist threat presents an increased risk of RCIED detonation from several common RF devices in everyday use. Of these types of equipment, radio control devices, mobile telephones and electronic pagers are the most prolific. Accordingly the ECM Shield™ system capability is directed at the specific threats posed by these 3 items when used for terrorist purposes. The Allen ECM Shield™ is configured as a modular jamming system that allows the end-user to select protection against any or all of the above devices. Deployment The Allen ECM Shield™ can be configured in either a vehicle-mounted and powered format or man portable format for use in either an EOD role or in a force protection scenario. Allen ECM Shield™ jamming provides protection to VIPs in transit, military convoys, sensitive venues and high value fixed installations. By effectively emitting a protective shield of electro-magnetic radiation the target is significantly ‘hardened’ to terrorist attack. Technical data is available to government bodies and qualified individuals upon request.  www.security.pwallen.co.uk/Catalogue/IE/451/62142.html# Just get the DoD to write to… PW Allen & Company Limited, Allen House, Alexandra Way, Ashchurch Business Centre, Tewkesbury, GL20 8TD, UK. Sales Enquiries Tel: +44 1684 851111 …or ask your Congressman why the DoD ain't! ANdy |
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