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Posted: 3/16/2011 5:39:39 AM EST
I am visiting my brother and his family and my very young niece got me to play team ping pong on X box system. After the first match, I had to pull back because between the game and martial arts training and perhaps raquet ball, it was causing a level a disorientation. Well, that, and a young niece jumping up and down beside me at each win and me being stolic to the engagement.

But it got me to wondering, can this system be the poor man's way to keep up with reactions or is something that is detrimental, that continual exposure would degrade reflexes.

I've been on, a score or more ago, virtual reality shooting simulators with Berettas and M-16's converted to laser generators, but in those, they were 20 year old technology (and quite expensive at the time), and one was not a cartoon figure on the screen.

Plus, there may be a difference between one system configured for realistic training and the other being configured as a game.

Thoughts?............................besides "it's 2011 and you are only now doing an X box?".
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("Good against remotes is one thing. Good against the living, that's something else."––Han Solo, (w,stte), "Star Wars")
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 5:54:38 AM EST
call of duty. enough said
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 6:04:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 6:06:01 AM EST by Snowleopard]
Originally Posted By ellimx191:
call of duty. enough said


Well, keeping in mind that I have never used this system before, can you expand on that? I mean, given that if I take a recommendation just on that, I'm looking at buying a large TV system, the gaming system, and this particular game.

I take it that it is a war game. Does it allow one to seek cover? Have a standard weapon all through out.....and limited ammo? Or, is it like "Lethal Enforcer" where you start off with a pistol, end up with an automatic rifle, and get more ammo just as you need it.

I'm not looking for a game to play but rather am wondering if this game system has use as a training/exercise device. It doesn' t have to be a shoot them all down type of thing; something that could be used for sparring, for blocks and hits........ would be nice.
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("At close range, these things can be as lethal as phasers."––Kirk about the six shooters they have, (w,stte), ST:TOS "Spectre of the Gun")
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 6:29:13 AM EST
If you read any of Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's books he speaks about this very topic. In his opinion the high definition simulation of video games is very similar to military and police training we receive. I saw him a few months back and read some of his materials and it makes sense. Kids are playing first person military type games with weapons that have magazine capacities and different uses for different tactical situations. He mentioned a study where kids who played video games sparred off against kids who did not play these types of games. In the study the kids who played the games had faster target acquisition and could consistently make head shots.

Link Posted: 3/16/2011 7:05:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By tbeminio:
If you read any of Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's books he speaks about this very topic. In his opinion the high definition simulation of video games is very similar to military and police training we receive. I saw him a few months back and read some of his materials and it makes sense. Kids are playing first person military type games with weapons that have magazine capacities and different uses for different tactical situations. He mentioned a study where kids who played video games sparred off against kids who did not play these types of games. In the study the kids who played the games had faster target acquisition and could consistently make head shots.



It goes both ways. The Feminists were up in arms about "Duke Nukem 3D" because of the sexual nature of the game. Me, when I played it and came across the topless dancers and such, I ignored them....because I was ID'ing them as decoys to pull me into a killing zone......and as it turned out, some of them actually were that.

In school shooting situations, it is occassionally mentioned or theorized that the shooters learned their skills from video games though it does not go into details of such.

But I question that to a degree. One thing that light games often lack is what happens when one jerks the trigger. Light is instantaneous, jerking the trigger should not divert the bullet that much......but in reality, with gunpowder, the effect can be different. Does one pick up this bad habit on a video game?

I was thinking back to "Lethal Enforcer". How did one reload? They pointed to the reload point, pulled the trigger, and were reloaded. Well, there are two problems with one. First of all, that's not how one reloads. Secondly, it teaches one to break visual lock on with the target. Ie, when the Marines taught me, it was keep the gun pointed on the target, eyes on the target, while pulling the next magazine and inserting it without looking, by muscle memory. Are the current video games, because they are games, teaching such bad habits?

From this morning's experience, I'm not really looking at X Box for shooting practice, though boarding a drug boat would be nice, but for sparring. Blocks and strikes. Can it be used effectively like that or will it limit, teach limitations, such as only being able to use one hand or being able only to use the hand and not the forearm, or denying one the ability to kick.

Or......is it just a game?
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("You think this is a game, man?"––Reggie Hammond impersonating a vice cop roughing up a Honky Tonk, (w,stte), "48 Hours")
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 7:59:47 AM EST
Although most 1st person shooters are pretty much run n gun, there are a few tactics that tranlsate over to the real world. In these games failure to tac reload, usually means running out when there is still a bad guy standing in front of you....so I would say this is a plus for good training and something that carries over to the real world. Another is corners, I can't think of how many times I get the jump on some 12 year just by pie'ing corners! When I hook up with friends from work on call of duty, we usually wipe the board clean. Not cuz we are hardcore gamers with millions of hours logged in, but becuase we move as a team, communicate and work together as a team to achieve whatever the objective is. In most of these games folks split up and go the lone wolf route....when u are moving as a unit, you tend to be more effective...utilizing cover fire, and just all out room domination when u come into a room with 3+ guys all taking care of their corners.

I think there is more that can be achieved from playing video games and, contrary to popular belief, I dont think they rot the brain. I think they help hand eye coordination as well as observational skills. yer brain is taking in alot of info, and yer being required to process this info and make sense of it very quickly.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 8:56:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By SMPrider112:
Although most 1st person shooters are pretty much run n gun, there are a few tactics that tranlsate over to the real world. In these games failure to tac reload, usually means running out when there is still a bad guy standing in front of you....so I would say this is a plus for good training and something that carries over to the real world. Another is corners, I can't think of how many times I get the jump on some 12 year just by pie'ing corners! When I hook up with friends from work on call of duty, we usually wipe the board clean. Not cuz we are hardcore gamers with millions of hours logged in, but becuase we move as a team, communicate and work together as a team to achieve whatever the objective is. In most of these games folks split up and go the lone wolf route....when u are moving as a unit, you tend to be more effective...utilizing cover fire, and just all out room domination when u come into a room with 3+ guys all taking care of their corners.

I think there is more that can be achieved from playing video games and, contrary to popular belief, I dont think they rot the brain. I think they help hand eye coordination as well as observational skills. yer brain is taking in alot of info, and yer being required to process this info and make sense of it very quickly.


Similar thing here. When I play UT2004, I tend to shoot from whatever cover I can, focus on weak areas, and, when using a sniper rifle, staying to the high ground. Or finding my next target by seeing where the weapons fire is coming from, where the rounds are richorchetting. Among other things, that can indicate that he is engaged to front, so I can come from the rear.

But there are differences, of course. First of all, in a game, if I am wrong, no big deal. In reality, if for whatever reason he isn't engaged to the front when I think I am sneaking in on his backside, I'm dead. A game encourages one to rush into battle. Secondly, that zoom of the sight cuts out the side vision....and that's not the way I shoot. Both eyes open, sighting eye active on target, other eye open and aware of the surroundings. Finally, it's great that at the hip one has a "HUDs" cross hair telling them where the gun is pointing for quick off the hip shots, but I don't have that skill yet. Further, one gets an understanding to the way things work. Hit the enemy, they will try to engage, instead of running away.

I don't like dying. I want to be best and I want to be perfect. But in the game, if one dies, not only is it oh well, but something of a badge of honor to show how much of a shredded corpse they can leave. In reality, we have that constant fear of death, being shot hanging over our heads. So the question is, how do we get more of that sweat into the game....or should we?
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("Now, pay attention, 007. I've always tried to teach you two things. First, never let them see you bleed."––Q
"And second?"––Bond
"Always have an escape route.", (w,stte), "TWINE")
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 3:13:55 PM EST
Lol, you spell "XBOX" in two words. It's not bad until it redrings. I'm out of date with xbox ever since I started playing the ps3.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 3:57:53 PM EST
The new medal of honor for xbox on xbox live is more realistic. You don't really have people flying through the air shooting dual double barrel shotguns knifing you from 10 feet away like call of duty..
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 5:01:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By louisianarebel:
The new medal of honor for xbox on xbox live is more realistic. You don't really have people flying through the air shooting dual double barrel shotguns knifing you from 10 feet away like call of duty..


I tried it, didn't like it much.....got REAL tired of getting sniped any time I moved from cover. Seems like everybody but me had a sniper rifle. It almost felt like WW I, without the trenches, but still the stale movement.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 5:23:23 PM EST
If nothing else, it's operant conditioning. Stimulus-response.

Like somebody else said, Col. Grossman calls them "killing simulators."

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