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Posted: 4/18/2016 5:33:22 PM EDT
She wants to adopt and is looking at Bulgaria. The reason for that particular place is because she wants a girl about 8 and apparently, that's easier to do there than in some places (although still hard and very expensive, to the tune of about $40,000 apparently).

My son is unsure. They have two children and he wouldn't mind another (they are fantastic parents, even if I'm biased) but he's worried that there may be a lot of unexpected problems.

While I'm sure it's unlikely that anyone here has specifically adopted from Bulgaria, I figured someone has been down a similar path and could offer some insight. Maybe?

All I really know beyond the above is that the girls are in an orphanage where they are well cared for and socialized, at least according to the agency here in the states.

Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:37:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2016 5:38:02 PM EDT by SBCZILLA]
Originally Posted By Layer60:
She wants to adopt and is looking at Bulgaria. The reason for that particular place is because she wants a girl about 8 and apparently, that's easier to do there than in some places (although still hard and very expensive, to the tune of about $40,000 apparently).

My son is unsure. They have two children and he wouldn't mind another (they are fantastic parents, even if I'm biased) but he's worried that there may be a lot of unexpected problems.

While I'm sure it's unlikely that anyone here has specifically adopted from Bulgaria, I figured someone has been down a similar path and could offer some insight. Maybe?

All I really know beyond the above is that the girls are in an orphanage where they are well cared for and socialized, at least according to the agency here in the states.

View Quote


Couple that is friends with my wife tried years to adopt, finally got burned a few times, and said "fuck it"

Also, if you want a white child, its a SERIOUS PITA,and stupid expensive. Black babies are abundant, and cheap. . Not racist, thats a FACT.

I could fill the page with details, and scenarios they went through, but I aint typing that much on my phone. I will say, make sure they do some SERIOUS research, and not kneejerk into an emotional decision. From what I have seen, its a pile of bullshit.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:41:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SBCZILLA:


Couple that is friends with my wife tried years to adopt, finally got burned a few times, and said "fuck it"

Also, if you want a white child, its a SERIOUS PITA,and stupid expensive. Black babies are abundant, and cheap. . Not racist, thats a FACT.

I could fill the page with details, and scenarios they went through, but I aint typing that much on my phone. I will say, make sure they do some SERIOUS research, and not kneejerk into an emotional decision. From what I have seen, its a pile of bullshit.
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Originally Posted By SBCZILLA:
Originally Posted By Layer60:
She wants to adopt and is looking at Bulgaria. The reason for that particular place is because she wants a girl about 8 and apparently, that's easier to do there than in some places (although still hard and very expensive, to the tune of about $40,000 apparently).

My son is unsure. They have two children and he wouldn't mind another (they are fantastic parents, even if I'm biased) but he's worried that there may be a lot of unexpected problems.

While I'm sure it's unlikely that anyone here has specifically adopted from Bulgaria, I figured someone has been down a similar path and could offer some insight. Maybe?

All I really know beyond the above is that the girls are in an orphanage where they are well cared for and socialized, at least according to the agency here in the states.



Couple that is friends with my wife tried years to adopt, finally got burned a few times, and said "fuck it"

Also, if you want a white child, its a SERIOUS PITA,and stupid expensive. Black babies are abundant, and cheap. . Not racist, thats a FACT.

I could fill the page with details, and scenarios they went through, but I aint typing that much on my phone. I will say, make sure they do some SERIOUS research, and not kneejerk into an emotional decision. From what I have seen, its a pile of bullshit.


You're saying someone took their money and the process went nowhere?
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:43:24 PM EDT
WTF? They already have 2 kids, why go through all that trouble? Third child going to be the winner?? My Dad said that once, a-hole.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:44:22 PM EDT
How old are their 2 sons?
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:44:28 PM EDT
Don't know anything, good luck to your boy.

Unfortunately I would say go for a younger child that might not have as much baggage such as memories of past abuse or family. Like 2 or something.


Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:45:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2016 5:45:52 PM EDT by Ironhandjohn]
Im an adopted person, and I adopted my wife's two kids when we got married. There is NO WAY IN HELL I'd do it today, with all the problems that adoptive parents have with regard to the biological family staying out of the picture.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:47:09 PM EDT
Wifes cousin adopted 2 from vietnam, their other cousin adopted from russia. IMO only my opinion i wouldnt. At 8 their mind is developed and any problems will surface and be a costly problem and will cause a rift. I have seen some crazy stuff from their adopted kids and it pretty much made up our minds to never adopt abroad.

Here is a general idea.
Although funny, at a wedding rehersal the oldest vietnam kid ripped the head off the whole bbq pig and was running around throwing it at people and making it talk.

The daughter has had serious mental problems with bursting out screaming and crying at any time, even saying hi triggers it.

The oldest russian kid cuts himself and started at 11 when he came over, serious depression and a issue of mpd.

Yeah thats just the tip of these iceberg.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:49:09 PM EDT
I had a friend and his wife try for several years to adopt. Both great people, hardworking middle class.

After 3 years they pretty much gave up.

Healthy babies are difficult to find. And while I absolutely respect those who take sick children into their homes, it's a tough road for most people.

I do wish them luck in their search though.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:49:23 PM EDT


In before the Adopted child syndrome
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:50:31 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN:

In before the Adopted child syndrome
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Never heard of it. Guess I'll Google it.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:51:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:51:59 PM EDT
Me and my wife are starting the process to become Foster Parents. For the purpose to adopt because its free. Maybe they should look into it before going over seas.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:53:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Layer60:
She wants to adopt and is looking at Bulgaria. The reason for that particular place is because she wants a girl about 8 and apparently, that's easier to do there than in some places (although still hard and very expensive, to the tune of about $40,000 apparently).

My son is unsure. They have two children and he wouldn't mind another (they are fantastic parents, even if I'm biased) but he's worried that there may be a lot of unexpected problems.

While I'm sure it's unlikely that anyone here has specifically adopted from Bulgaria, I figured someone has been down a similar path and could offer some insight. Maybe?

All I really know beyond the above is that the girls are in an orphanage where they are well cared for and socialized, at least according to the agency here in the states.

View Quote

The part in bold is the only problem I see, and it is a show-stopper if they are not on the same page.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:53:45 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By rwheet:
Me and my wife are starting the process to become Foster Parents. For the purpose to adopt because its free. Maybe they should look into it before going over seas.
View Quote


Actually, they are considering Foster Parenting as a path to adoption but there were some horror stories about that. How far along are you in the process?
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:54:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By hsach:

The part in bold is the only problem I see, and it is a show-stopper if they are not on the same page.
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Originally Posted By hsach:
Originally Posted By Layer60:
She wants to adopt and is looking at Bulgaria. The reason for that particular place is because she wants a girl about 8 and apparently, that's easier to do there than in some places (although still hard and very expensive, to the tune of about $40,000 apparently).

My son is unsure. They have two children and he wouldn't mind another (they are fantastic parents, even if I'm biased) but he's worried that there may be a lot of unexpected problems.

While I'm sure it's unlikely that anyone here has specifically adopted from Bulgaria, I figured someone has been down a similar path and could offer some insight. Maybe?

All I really know beyond the above is that the girls are in an orphanage where they are well cared for and socialized, at least according to the agency here in the states.


The part in bold is the only problem I see, and it is a show-stopper if they are not on the same page.


Once he commits to something, he's all in. He just won't commit until he's sure. It's a skill I never quite learned.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:55:53 PM EDT
Seems like every prospective set of parent candidates get lied to and manipulated, from what I have seen.

Some of these kids are also time bombs, as well.

Hate to say it, but friends and family have had this experience.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:56:38 PM EDT
A friend of my wife adopted a something-like-2 year old from Bulgaria. I'd be hesitant to use their case as a bellwether for all but it has been one HELL of a struggle. She was nearly feral when they got her. You've probably heard about how eastern bloc orphanages just pen them up like animals, she's a case study in that.

Her adopted parents are both MDs, they have two natural children, one with some fairly major genetic health issues. They thought they were ready. They were as informed as they could be. Both have since had to pare back their work commitments heavily to raise her. She's had the best therapy with some of the best specialists available and it's cost a ton, and I'm no expert at all but I remain (quietly) skeptical that she will overcome the handicap of losing her first years to a cage.

I would advise them to tread very cautiously down that trail if they walk it at all.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:57:45 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By WinstonSmith:
A friend of my wife adopted a something-like-2 year old from Bulgaria. I'd be hesitant to use their case as a bellwether for all but it has been one HELL of a struggle. She was nearly feral when they got her. You've probably heard about how eastern bloc orphanages just pen them up like animals, she's a case study in that.

Her adopted parents are both MDs, they have two natural children, one with some fairly major genetic health issues. They thought they were ready. They were as informed as they could be. Both have since had to pare back their work commitments heavily to raise her. She's had the best therapy with some of the best specialists available and it's cost a ton, and I'm no expert at all but I remain (quietly) skeptical that she will overcome the handicap of losing her first years to a cage.

I would advise them to tread very cautiously down that trail if they walk it at all.
View Quote


That's excellent advice that hits pretty close to the situation. Thanks.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 5:57:57 PM EDT
Be very careful.a child that age may have been in an orphanage for eight years and will have serious socialization issues. Like eff up your entire lives issues
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 6:01:38 PM EDT
2 different people at my work got babies in the last year from Indians. I was like because I would've never guessed Native Americans were giving up
their young. Usually they fight if a baby is 1/87th Apache. Nothing to add but it would suck if the kid wasn't nice and it made the other 2 happy children
unpleasant. I would tell her to be happy with their family GOD provided and volunteer for a Sunday class or something with little kids to get her "I love
children and want another fix" I'm kind of an a-hole though so there is that.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 6:01:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2016 6:04:37 PM EDT by Agent_Funky]
Originally Posted By Layer60:
She wants to adopt and is looking at Bulgaria. The reason for that particular place is because she wants a girl about 8 and apparently, that's easier to do there than in some places (although still hard and very expensive, to the tune of about $40,000 apparently).

My son is unsure. They have two children and he wouldn't mind another (they are fantastic parents, even if I'm biased) but he's worried that there may be a lot of unexpected problems.

While I'm sure it's unlikely that anyone here has specifically adopted from Bulgaria, I figured someone has been down a similar path and could offer some insight. Maybe?

All I really know beyond the above is that the girls are in an orphanage where they are well cared for and socialized, at least according to the agency here in the states.

View Quote



My sister adopted. Kids came from a very difficult background. Both were born as heroin addicts and had to be weaned off slowly. Both biological parents were worthless shitbags.

Children were removed from the biological mother by the courts at both for their own welfare.....not that the biological mother cared.

Best decision my sister made as far as she is concerned, and they now have two awesome kids.

A loving home and a good upbringing can make a world of difference.

An older child can be a more difficult proposition. I would consider the child's history carefully and try to be sure that you have the patience and time to deal with the issues that may come from adopting a child who may already be scarred and need tome and help to adapt to new expectations.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 6:02:08 PM EDT
I know some couples that adopted from over seas. One couple all things were expensive but went well with 2 well adjusted kids.

The other couple not so much. Their child is out of their hands and in professional psychiatric care.


All said and done the adoption process is a money making operation for the "vendors" as I call them. That's my opinion. Lots of fees along the way.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 6:03:00 PM EDT
Every white kid from Russia and Eastern Europe I've seen adopted has moderate to SEVERE emotional or developmental issues.

From what I've seen, China will allow westerners to adopt kids with developmental issues or expensive health problems only.

Keep it in the US. My cousin adopted a Cherokee baby, which was expensive, but a lot safer than rolling the dice knowing you're going to get something, you just don't know what.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 6:03:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Layer60:
She wants to adopt and is looking at Bulgaria. The reason for that particular place is because she wants a girl about 8 and apparently, that's easier to do there than in some places (although still hard and very expensive, to the tune of about $40,000 apparently).

My son is unsure. They have two children and he wouldn't mind another (they are fantastic parents, even if I'm biased) but he's worried that there may be a lot of unexpected problems.

While I'm sure it's unlikely that anyone here has specifically adopted from Bulgaria, I figured someone has been down a similar path and could offer some insight. Maybe?

All I really know beyond the above is that the girls are in an orphanage where they are well cared for and socialized, at least according to the agency here in the states.

View Quote

My brothers common law wife from Belgium wanted to adopt a little Somali boy, he was not having it, something about not raising a pirate captain or some shit.

Well, they broke up over it, and she was able to adopt him as a single parent in Belgium. Not really sure how she did it though.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 6:04:14 PM EDT
My wife and I adopted our son last year. Went through an adoption agency here in the US white baby looks like my wife. Our son was a new born, we were there for the birth. The time frame from the time we put our profile together until the time the birth mom contacted us was about 6 months. It cost us about $44,000 and we got ~ $9,000 back as a tax refund. We got very lucky and I thank God every day that he is healthy and normal. With $ and patience it is doable but nerve wracking at times to say the least. As far as an international adoption our research determined that it was going to be too much of a hassle to go over seas. And to another posts point sadly, African American babies were very abundant and could be had for almost nothing after the tax refund.

Kilo.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 7:21:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Layer60:


Actually, they are considering Foster Parenting as a path to adoption but there were some horror stories about that. How far along are you in the process?
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Originally Posted By Layer60:
Originally Posted By rwheet:
Me and my wife are starting the process to become Foster Parents. For the purpose to adopt because its free. Maybe they should look into it before going over seas.


Actually, they are considering Foster Parenting as a path to adoption but there were some horror stories about that. How far along are you in the process?



We have our first home study tomorrow. So literally just starting it. We talked to a lot of people that have gone this path. You're right some good and some bad. But we have also heard horror stories about going over seas too. My wife works with a lot a foster kids and see's some of the worst cases. So She was freaked at first but we both feel better after talking to people. We also are only looking to foster a kid 5 years and under. Hoping to hold out for a baby.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 7:24:52 PM EDT
I've heard it's easier when they are younger. Then again, coming from Eastern Europe, I'd be thrilled to leave

Also verify mother's drug use, they don't want a crack baby
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 7:30:33 PM EDT
Three of my relatives adopted. All three were life altering disasters.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 7:36:37 PM EDT
I'm a PI and I've done a ton of pro bono volunteer work for adoptions...usually finding the bio father and talking him into signing away his child support obligations for the rest of his life (...yeah, it can be a hard sell...not)

I've seen a lot of happy adoptions, and I can also tell you in my own humble opinion there seems to be a lot more to nature than there is to nurture.

DNA has more to do with things than a lot of people would like to admit.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 7:38:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2016 7:38:43 PM EDT by Beerdy]
My mother was adopted, and there is no one that she loved more than her mom.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 7:57:26 PM EDT
My wife and I adopted 2 daughters - both international adoptions and both were right at 3 years old at the time of adoption.

So in answer to your primary question, we've been down a similar path. The #1 piece of advice I would give to your son and his wife is to put the emotion aside for a moment and perform their due diligence on the adoption agency. There are absolutely wonderful agencies out there who are focused on both the welfare of the child and the existing home environment. On the other hand there are agencies with fewer scruples.

You and your family sound like good people. If your son and his wife perform their due diligence, they will be giving a child a family who otherwise would have a pretty bleak future.


Link Posted: 4/18/2016 7:58:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Layer60:
She wants to adopt and is looking at Bulgaria. The reason for that particular place is because she wants a girl about 8 and apparently, that's easier to do there than in some places (although still hard and very expensive, to the tune of about $40,000 apparently).

My son is unsure. They have two children and he wouldn't mind another (they are fantastic parents, even if I'm biased) but he's worried that there may be a lot of unexpected problems.

While I'm sure it's unlikely that anyone here has specifically adopted from Bulgaria, I figured someone has been down a similar path and could offer some insight. Maybe?

All I really know beyond the above is that the girls are in an orphanage where they are well cared for and socialized, at least according to the agency here in the states.

View Quote


My cousin and his wife did this very thing. They had 2 boys & wanted a 3rd kid. They adopted a 3 year old girl from Bulgaria. They flew over once for a few days to meet the little girl, came home until the paperwork was processed, then flew back to bring her home.

The part in bold is bullshit based on my cousin's experience. Well cared for meant she was not starving. When my cousin brought her home (3 years old) she could not speak, was still in diapers with no attempt to start potty training until my cousin brought her home, and had no idea of how to act or behave. She has been in stateside for about 2 years now and had made a lot of improvement. My cousin & his wife immediately started working with her and she is now in specialized pre-K. She still reverts back to basic noises (yelling, grunting, etc.) when she is excited or scared but her speech has greatly improved. Sweet kid but at 4 or 5 she is at about the same level as my 2 year old as far as social interaction.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:02:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2016 8:03:47 PM EDT by walldj45]
Bulgaria is a tough country to grow up in. A majority of the children you'll find in the orphanages there will be extremely poor, deprived and already be emotionally developed/damaged. I've seen the orphanages, they're not pretty.

I would try and find a younger girl, as already said by another poster. In addition she will speak Bulgarian, and it will be frustrating to teach her a new language and communicate.

I speak Bulgarian and lived there, let me know if I can be helpful.

ETA: The post above is correct, the orphanages there are not helpful in anyway besides keeping the child from starving.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:06:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2016 8:09:35 PM EDT by sydney7629]
My wife and i are in the final stages of adopting from Ukraine. We have our home study completed and all of our background checks. We are working with a facilitator in Ukraine and have to work through their government scheduling

ETA: We have studied and learned a lot about the orphanages, the conditions and went to several international adoption classes to prepare for things like adjustment, loss, international barriers, cocooning, etc.

You can IM me if i can help any more.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:10:15 PM EDT
I really appreciate all of the info. I'm going to send him this link so that he can read up on everything.

Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:12:17 PM EDT
And to those offering to help, that's very kind!

If they decide to move forward, I may just IM you and connect you with my son.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:12:56 PM EDT
don't you prefer a smart Chinese baby girl?
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:13:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By armoredsaint:
don't you prefer a smart Chinese baby girl?
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She apparently looked into the Chinese option and it was essentially impossible to adopt from China now, with the exception of extreme special needs kids.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:19:14 PM EDT
The initial cost is just the beginning. My sister adopted a kid from Russia and she had numerous issues requiring surgery and therapy. She is their only child so they put all effort and resources behind her.

With two kids already I would worry about taking on a third that could require a disproportionate amount of attention. Genetics and environment matters, and the adopted child at that age may likely have disadvantages in both areas.

Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:20:43 PM EDT
Knew someone who adopted some Russian kids. He said picking them up in Russia was the craziest experience he has ever had. They were adopting a girl. When they got there she had a brother they came home with him as well. Be very careful about sending money it's really easy to get ripped off.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:23:46 PM EDT
1. There's nothing wrong with adoption, IMHO. I am undecided about having children. I'm talking to a woman right now who cannot have children. I would be able to adopt and love him/her as my own.

2. Why the FUCK would you go out of your way to specifically get a child from Bulgaria, and specifically about 8. You aren't buying a car or a washing machine.

There are plenty of American children right here that need a loving home.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:27:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:35:38 PM EDT
My sister-in-law and her husband adopted a 4yo Chinese girl in 2014. The process was long and well over $60,000, requiring two trips to China. She also had a cleft palate that required multiple surgeries. I thought it was stupid since they already have two kids and if they really wanted to adopt, why not give an American kid a home? Two years later, she's by far my favorite child of theirs. The other two are twats. I still call her Ping-Pong though
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:41:25 PM EDT
A lot of people go into this unaware of the potential problems some of these previously institutionalized kids can have. Unfortunately a lot of the damage is permanent and resources and therapy is or was nonexistent. 26 years ago when we adopted from Romania no one here could even really identify or define the issues a lot of us adoptive parents were facing much less offer treatment or therapy. I wish your son luck.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:42:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Layer60:


She apparently looked into the Chinese option and it was essentially impossible to adopt from China now, with the exception of extreme special needs kids.
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Originally Posted By Layer60:
Originally Posted By armoredsaint:
don't you prefer a smart Chinese baby girl?


She apparently looked into the Chinese option and it was essentially impossible to adopt from China now, with the exception of extreme special needs kids.



I don't see why you can't adopt a CHinese kid
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:47:18 PM EDT
I've got two adopted cousins and they're great, but there's no way in hell I'd do it.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:47:46 PM EDT
I might be getting too old to adopt again. Might be.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:48:33 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By shotar:
There are plenty of American kids that need a home. As mentioned, foster to adopt.
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When you adopt from Eastern Europe you usually get the feeling that you're buying kids from the mafia.

It's STILL often a better experience.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:52:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By fd4887:
A lot of people go into this unaware of the potential problems some of these previously institutionalized kids can have. Unfortunately a lot of the damage is permanent and resources and therapy is or was nonexistent. 26 years ago when we adopted from Romania no one here could even really identify or define the issues a lot of us adoptive parents were facing much less offer treatment or therapy. I wish your son luck.
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1) How'd it work out?

2) There's more resources out there now. Some of 'em cost serious money. I believe they can do more with those kids now than they could when you adopted, but I still don't think all the resources in the world will stand in for love and touch and contact and attention as an infant. I also don't think they can completely get beyond the issues caused by drug and alcohol abuse during pregnancy, an especially bad problem in eastern europe.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:57:52 PM EDT
Both of the foriegn adoptions in my family were disasters. One from Columbia, the other from Romania.
I vote no.
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