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Posted: 10/29/2006 4:18:27 AM EDT
I was shooting Winchester Whitebox .223 FMJ out of my 16" barreled AR15 yesterday and noticed that there was a significant muzzle flash with some of the rounds and almost no muzzle flash with the rest. It was late evening, the sun was down but not dark yet and it was obvious that there was a huge difference. The rounds performed well and I was on target and accurate with all rounds.  Maybe it was different lot numbers but maybe not. It would happen with each magazine and I shot 5-30 round mags through my rifle. The barrel terminates without a flash hider. Square cut with a slight chamfer.

Any ideas?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 11:37:35 AM EDT
[#1]
Did I ask the one question that no one on this board can answer?  If so, what do I win?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 1:33:20 PM EDT
[#2]
you forgot this is GD  half of them don't own weapons.  try the ammo forum    


Link Posted: 10/29/2006 1:39:21 PM EDT
[#3]
As a gunsmith, handloader, and former 02 manufacturer, I can definately say this:
Lack of masturbation!

GET TO WORK!

JK, free bump.


Balming
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 1:40:55 PM EDT
[#4]
I notice a difference in muzzleflash from round to round even with Lake City ammo.   Not sure why, but I don't think it's a sign the ammo is inconsistant.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 1:42:20 PM EDT
[#5]
I have had the same happen....actually made a video of about 10 shots to see if I could catch it on film....and you could clearly see that some shots had a major flash, some had none. Not sure why....the report and recoil were pretty much identical...the accuracy was the same...basically all things were equal except the flash.

It obviously has something to do with the gases coming out of the barrel, but I cant say why there was a variance.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 1:44:41 PM EDT
[#6]
That is a weird occurence.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 3:50:38 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
I notice a difference in muzzleflash from round to round even with Lake City ammo.   Not sure why, but I don't think it's a sign the ammo is inconsistant.


+1  

I'm with Ed on this one.  I've not only noticed this with .223/5.56 but also with 7.62X25 FNM/Prvi Partizan ammo out of my CZ-52 in low light conditions.  
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:06:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Thanks guys.  I'm not as worried now since some of you have had the same thing happen with no ill effects.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:10:47 PM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:
Thanks guys.  I'm not as worried now since some of you have had the same thing happen with no ill effects.



My guess is that with a 16" barrel, not all of the powder is used up in the barrel - so if there are slightly different amounts of powder loaded in the cartridge, then you'll either get more surplus burn-off, or less.  But because the same amount is being burned to propell the bullet, you don't see any difference in accuracy or recoil - because it's just the extra (whether more or less) that is being burnt off in the flash.


Just a total guess.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:11:13 PM EDT
[#10]
I noticed this a couple of weeks ago shooting Guatamalan out of an 8-1/2" pistol. Maybe 3-4 out of a 30 round mag would have a HUGE flash. I was rather dissapointed as I was shooting right near dark and would have liked them all to to that.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:11:39 PM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:
I was shooting Winchester Whitebox .223 FMJ out of my 16" barreled AR15 yesterday and noticed that there was a significant muzzle flash with some of the rounds and almost no muzzle flash with the rest. It was late evening, the sun was down but not dark yet and it was obvious that there was a huge difference.


This isn't unusual, especially in the daytime. Sometimes you notice muzzle flash, sometimes you don't. Sometimes all the powder burns perfectly, sometimes it is still burning when it leaves the muzzle.

There are too many variables to tell you which one is causing the different levels of flash.



The barrel terminates without a flash hider. Square cut with a slight chamfer.

Any ideas?


Yeah. Find a place where you can do a night shoot, and then watch the light show. You might find that the flash is more "consistent" at night.

ETA -- Last training I went to I saw a wierd one: One guy had smoke billowing out of his brass after it ejected from the weapon.

In all my training time, I have never seen an AR do that. It was so unusual, that one of our instructors said "Dude...WTF is that all about?"
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:11:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Sometimes the equipment screws up at the factory and some lots go out with a bit more muzzle flash than the others. you can fix this by carefully pulling the rounds in questions and pouring off a bit of the muzzle flash (but dont touch the smokeless powder, as this will screw with your velocity). Then carefully re seat the bullet.

Very easy fix, And it happens from time to time.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:16:00 PM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:
Sometimes the equipment screws up at the factory and some lots go out with a bit more muzzle flash than the others. you can fix this by carefully pulling the rounds in questions and pouring off a bit of the muzzle flash (but dont touch the smokeless powder, as this will screw with your velocity). Then carefully re seat the bullet.

Very easy fix, And it happens from time to time.


Can I just pour out all of the muzzle flash and the noise too?  That would be a cool round!  No sound, no flash!  Makes my pee pee hard just thinking about it.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:17:39 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sometimes the equipment screws up at the factory and some lots go out with a bit more muzzle flash than the others. you can fix this by carefully pulling the rounds in questions and pouring off a bit of the muzzle flash (but dont touch the smokeless powder, as this will screw with your velocity). Then carefully re seat the bullet.

Very easy fix, And it happens from time to time.


Can I just pour out all of the muzzle flash and the noise too?  That would be a cool round!  No sound, no flash!  Makes my pee pee hard just thinking about it.


Technically you can but you have to have a delicate touch. I have only been able to do it once it twice. Its very cool indeed!
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:19:34 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sometimes the equipment screws up at the factory and some lots go out with a bit more muzzle flash than the others. you can fix this by carefully pulling the rounds in questions and pouring off a bit of the muzzle flash (but dont touch the smokeless powder, as this will screw with your velocity). Then carefully re seat the bullet.

Very easy fix, And it happens from time to time.


Can I just pour out all of the muzzle flash and the noise too?  That would be a cool round!  No sound, no flash!  Makes my pee pee hard just thinking about it.


Send me the excess flash, I'd like it for shooting in my AR pistol at night.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:20:35 PM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
Sometimes the equipment screws up at the factory and some lots go out with a bit more muzzle flash than the others. you can fix this by carefully pulling the rounds in questions and pouring off a bit of the muzzle flash (but dont touch the smokeless powder, as this will screw with your velocity). Then carefully re seat the bullet.

Very easy fix, And it happens from time to time.


What do you use to pull the bullets?

Will regular pliers work or should I grab some vice grips?
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 5:39:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Here's a video of the flash at night. 3/30 were huge flashes. 1 looked like it threw a fireball out of the ejection port.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1L8ZEtsUX8
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 6:05:01 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sometimes the equipment screws up at the factory and some lots go out with a bit more muzzle flash than the others. you can fix this by carefully pulling the rounds in questions and pouring off a bit of the muzzle flash (but dont touch the smokeless powder, as this will screw with your velocity). Then carefully re seat the bullet.

Very easy fix, And it happens from time to time.


What do you use to pull the bullets?

Will regular pliers work or should I grab some vice grips?


Vice grips work in a pinch! But when pulling the bullet you have to be carefull not to tip the round mixing the muzzle flash with the regular powder. This is where most people fail. The best way to pull them is with a collet puller, it keeps the round straight up and down.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 6:09:44 PM EDT
[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sometimes the equipment screws up at the factory and some lots go out with a bit more muzzle flash than the others. you can fix this by carefully pulling the rounds in questions and pouring off a bit of the muzzle flash (but dont touch the smokeless powder, as this will screw with your velocity). Then carefully re seat the bullet.

Very easy fix, And it happens from time to time.


What do you use to pull the bullets?

Will regular pliers work or should I grab some vice grips?


Vice grips work in a pinch! But when pulling the bullet you have to be carefull not to tip the round mixing the muzzle flash with the regular powder. This is where most people fail. The best way to pull them is with a collet puller, it keeps the round straight up and down.


Oh god.... I probably ruined an entire box of black hills....  

I wanted it for AR with a night vision scope....  


Link Posted: 10/29/2006 6:14:18 PM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:
Sometimes the equipment screws up at the factory and some lots go out with a bit more muzzle flash than the others. you can fix this by carefully pulling the rounds in questions and pouring off a bit of the muzzle flash (but dont touch the smokeless powder, as this will screw with your velocity). Then carefully re seat the bullet.

Very easy fix, And it happens from time to time.


I'll bet you can put the blue smoke back into electronic components too!  
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 6:19:43 PM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sometimes the equipment screws up at the factory and some lots go out with a bit more muzzle flash than the others. you can fix this by carefully pulling the rounds in questions and pouring off a bit of the muzzle flash (but dont touch the smokeless powder, as this will screw with your velocity). Then carefully re seat the bullet.

Very easy fix, And it happens from time to time.


What do you use to pull the bullets?

Will regular pliers work or should I grab some vice grips?


Vice grips work in a pinch! But when pulling the bullet you have to be carefull not to tip the round mixing the muzzle flash with the regular powder. This is where most people fail. The best way to pull them is with a collet puller, it keeps the round straight up and down.


Oh god.... I probably ruined an entire box of black hills....  

I wanted it for AR with a night vision scope....  




Dang sissys...I just use mah teeth to pull em.
Link Posted: 10/29/2006 6:20:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Where the powder is positioned in the case can also cause variations. If the majority of the powder is shifted back in the case against the primer its going to ignite differently from rounds with the powder shifted towards the bullet. It really doesn't effect performance that much, not even anything noticible without instrumentation.
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 3:36:09 AM EDT
[#23]

Quoted:
Vice grips work in a pinch! But when pulling the bullet you have to be carefull not to tip the round mixing the muzzle flash with the regular powder. This is where most people fail. The best way to pull them is with a collet puller, it keeps the round straight up and down.


Don't tease the newbie.....

Link Posted: 10/30/2006 5:45:36 AM EDT
[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Vice grips work in a pinch! But when pulling the bullet you have to be carefull not to tip the round mixing the muzzle flash with the regular powder. This is where most people fail. The best way to pull them is with a collet puller, it keeps the round straight up and down.


Don't tease the newbie.....



Would I do that?
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 3:23:12 PM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Vice grips work in a pinch! But when pulling the bullet you have to be carefull not to tip the round mixing the muzzle flash with the regular powder. This is where most people fail. The best way to pull them is with a collet puller, it keeps the round straight up and down.


Don't tease the newbie.....



I thought it was pretty obvious I was kidding....

Or were you kidding as well?

I didn't want to make it too obvious with a smiley but .... here it is....  
Link Posted: 10/30/2006 3:25:38 PM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Vice grips work in a pinch! But when pulling the bullet you have to be carefull not to tip the round mixing the muzzle flash with the regular powder. This is where most people fail. The best way to pull them is with a collet puller, it keeps the round straight up and down.


Don't tease the newbie.....



Would I do that?



Best thread yet.
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