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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/16/2006 3:14:00 PM EDT
Hi..I'm not sure wether this queston was better suited to the "deployed" or " brothers of the sheild" forums so I decided to pose the question in both places. (Dupe Police can KMA) sorry if that's a big no-no.


My brother is UK London MET Police (S.O. armed) He has the oppertunity to go to Iraq or Jordan to help train the Iraq Police. Has anyone got any thoughts or suggestions on this. Comments from anyone who had served there are especialy welcome. His tour is voluntary for 12 months.

Many thanks

Taffy
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:04:00 PM EDT
No one.....
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:49:22 PM EDT
Taffy223

Since no one replied I guess I will give this one a try. Officers have been being recruited for some time now to go to Iraq and train other police units. I believe the going rate that I heard was $130,000 (US dollars) per year. I know of no officers in my area that signed up for this. My personal feelings is it's just not worth the money to be away from my family. Since I wasn't interested I did not get any other info.

Hope your brother stays safe if he decides to go. IMHO this detail looks like it has trigger time written all over it as the police seem to be targeted for the IED bombings.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:56:21 PM EDT
Thanks for your reply
Firstly I'm not even sure if he can carry while there. His pay will be normal with only a very slight enhancement for being there. Cash is not his motive. He has a yearning that needs fullfilling and I was curious as to the conditions and the possible threats that could/would be encountered. He has a wife and two young girls and a year away from home is bad enough without it being somewhere potentialy dangerous...if it is dangerous...I dunno.

Thanks again for your input

Cheers
Taffy
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 5:59:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bucky145:
Taffy223

Since no one replied I guess I will give this one a try. Officers have been being recruited for some time now to go to Iraq and train other police units. I believe the going rate that I heard was $130,000 (US dollars) per year. I know of no officers in my area that signed up for this. My personal feelings is it's just not worth the money to be away from my family. Since I wasn't interested I did not get any other info.

Hope your brother stays safe if he decides to go. IMHO this detail looks like it has trigger time written all over it as the police seem to be targeted for the IED bombings.





HOLY SHIT that's a lot of cash!


Army gets paid a third of that!
I wish I was a cop, I'd be all over that!

­

Link Posted: 2/16/2006 6:05:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 6:09:56 PM EDT
Thanks ikor

If you US guys (Police) had a detachment over there...would it be voluntary and would you recieve extra pay?.....I get the feeling the "big bucks" are earnt by the civilian contractors who don't even do much to earn them.

Thanks
Taffy
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 6:41:32 PM EDT
Taffy,

The local UnderSheriff here in the county I live in just went over on a deal like that to train the Iraqi police. The UnderSheriff has done it before prior to becoming UnderSheriff. But anyway, what I've heard they are looking for LEO's with at least 5 years of experience and some kind of special skill such as weapons, custody and control skills, and etc. Of course, this could have changed from the last update I heard about.

The job pays well but very dangerous. As for me, I'm not interested because like Bucky stated being away from the family is hard.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:24:46 PM EDT
for Dynacorp's mission over there check out Police Mission for all the details. The guys going over there are armed and recieve a train-up prior to deploying.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:31:33 PM EDT
He will be able to carry, He will be heavily armed, and protected.
The trainers have no real worries except off time hazzards, and snipers. The recruiting is dicy...he wont be doing that.
He will work 90 days on 2 weeks off ( to come home) . He will be issued all kinds of protective equip, and he will be guarded like the Queen herself.

It will be 130 + a completion bonus of up to 18%, and he will sometimes get up to 50% more per day ther in hazard / hardship pay.

Link Posted: 2/17/2006 1:39:37 AM EDT
I replied to you under the Deployed section. If your brother is not former military I suggest he not go. Many LEOs go and find out the game is different from what they are experienced for. CivPol has a high turn over too. Last time I deployed with about 120 of them and I honestly would not want to be on the ground with many of them. Iraqi Police are a big target, being around them can be detrimental. They are providing more and more security for them also, i'm about to deploy to Afghanistan providing security under the CivPol program too.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 2:55:50 PM EDT
So Recon, what your saying is that LEO's compared to Military has nothing to offer? That's like me saying that former military shouldn't be in law enforcement because of their mind set. But of course that would be a incorrect and untrue statement on my part.

By all means, this isn't an attack on you and your previous post. So please, let's not start this thread into a ass kicking party. Of course, I don't know you and what you've experienced in your career. I would just like an explanation why you wouldn't want to serve with LEO's in an environment of training opportunity for others such as the Iraqi police.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 10:45:33 PM EDT
No, i'm not saying a LEO has nothing to offer. I am saying that some LEOs who have the wrong ideas, impressions, and behvior do not have much to offer for that program. In general the ones I met with former military experience were in the right frame of mind, even some who never served in the military seemed good to go. These were mostly the more seasoned guys though. But I have seen a ton of backwoods Bubba LEO's who thought they were walking into Iraq and were going to play Wyatt Earp. I was glad to part company with them once we landed in the box.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 10:54:49 PM EDT
Some of the LEOs have a mindset of americanized violence , and can not respond to a threat with overwhelming force. It has been drilled into them that the lawyers will own them if they make a split second decision, and over there waiting to see a gun is a big mistake. There are verry specific behaviors that are concidered agressive and worthy of deadly force. And some can not flip over to survival mode, and work in those conditions.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 11:45:16 PM EDT
Contract work is just not for everyone. A lot of guys get in over their heads skill level or comfort level. Being both former military and law enforcement I understand the differences of the three. You cannot act like you are patrolling back in Anytown USA and you cannot act like you are an assaulter in Ranger Battalion. React to contact, break contact drills, belt feds, and Soviet pact weapons. People get seriously f@#$%d up over here. I understand that police work can be dangerous but it is also entirely possible to work 20+ years and never draw your weapon. I think that is the mindset that Recon and 1IV are talking about.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 5:47:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 2:02:42 PM EDT
Ok,
I am in Iraq now, if he goes to Jordan he will have it made. In Jordan he will be working at JIPTIC (academy) In Iraq it is totally different. I am going back home in 44 days after having served 14 months. In 14 monthe we have lost 17 good people to the insurgency.
It is not worth it to me anymore.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 4:07:48 PM EDT
wow, that is very good money.
I dont think i could ever do that(assumeing i was a LEO) if i had a wife and most especialy if i had children.... but that is just me.

how do the insurgents get at the LEO who are training the Iraqi's? 17 killed in a year or so is very shocking
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 4:15:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2006 4:17:06 PM EDT by Taffy223]

Originally Posted By DYNAMIC_ENTRY:
Ok,
I am in Iraq now, if he goes to Jordan he will have it made. In Jordan he will be working at JIPTIC (academy) In Iraq it is totally different. I am going back home in 44 days after having served 14 months. In 14 monthe we have lost 17 good people to the insurgency.
It is not worth it to me anymore.



Thank you so much for your service....and may the 17 brave men you "we "lost RIP.


And thank you for your insight. Thanks to all of you.
I've passed on most of the comments and I know he has some more detailed questions. Thanks guys for your input.

Taffy

ETA correction
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 4:19:53 PM EDT
17 contractors in general from his company. Not just the teachers. The big mouse trap is those friggin roadside bombs. All they have to do is get lucky once.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 8:13:44 PM EDT
I'm sure the recruiters are responsible for a lot of the blame about misinformed LEO's entering the box. My experience with the recruiters if that company have not been stellar to say the least. Nothing like getting on the ground and finding things are completely different from what you were lead to believe.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 9:11:43 PM EDT
I work for a Federal agency that primarily operates overseas. I've been to Iraq twice and Afghanistan four times. As far as the attitude/mindset thing, I agree that many (NOT all) LEOs who only have domestic law enforcement experience don't quite "get it" when it comes to operating in an environment like Iraq. We experienced quite a bit of institutional resistance, for example, when we tried to introduce belt-fed machine guns into our protective motorcades. Many of our "silverbacks" stuck to this "we are law enforcement, we can't shoot full-auto weapons, we have to account for every round" mentality, until a number of "traditional" two-suburban-agents-with-M4s-and/or-submachineguns-type motorcades from other agencies got ambushed and destroyed in a short period of time. Most of the former military guys, conversely, just kind of intuitively understood that doing protective motorcades in Iraq was not the same thing as doing VIP protection or criminal investigations in Miami or Los Angeles or New York. (My background prior to becoming a Federal agent was military--Army Infantry--so my opinion on this may not be entirely unbiased).

As far as the risks, to police trainers or anyone else, by far the most dangerous thing most people do in Iraq on any given day is drive around on the highways (aka, "IED Alleys"). The IED threat is off the hook, the IEDs are enormous and getting more sophisticated, and if your convoy/motorcade gets hit, your training, experience, job title, armament, etc., don't really count for much. Basically, if it's your time, it's your time.

It's been almost two years since my last Iraq deployment (in my current assignment, I do not deploy overseas), and I've got the strangest and most irresistible jones to go back. It really bothers me that there are American soldiers, marines, airmen, sailors and, yes, law enforcement officers, diplomats, contractors, etc., in harm's way in Iraq (and Afghanistan, and elsewhere), while I am sitting fat and happy and safe here in CONUS. I feel guilty. Two agents from my agency have been killed in the line of duty in Iraq since the last time I was there, so I guess I should just count my blessings...
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