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Posted: 5/4/2004 1:09:22 PM EDT
Ok daddy's,
I need your opinion on this issue. My daughter is in second grade. She is a stout little thing. Probably a little more heavier then the majority of her class mates. Now for the past three months she has been picked on in school my this other girl that 2 grades above her. She has come home with a bruse below her eye. A bloody nose and some hair missing one day. I guess this other girl picks on other kids allot. I have writen a letter to the principal and teacher to try to help me put a stop to this. I have even gone down to the school to talk to the teacher. Nothing has been done. So over the past couple months I have had her uncle who is into self defence big time spend a hour or so a couple times a week teaching her how to protect her self and to build her self confidence back up because being picked on has ruined her self esteam. I know shes only about 8 yrs old but I just want her to walk with her head held high. So to make a long story short. This other older girl tried to pick on her again today. My little girl did nothing until the girl hit her in her nose and then she faught back finally. My daughter actually beat this bully up. When I got to the office I told them I tried everything to work with them to prevent this from happening. I asked my daughter what she did to stop the bully from picking on her and she said she grabed her thumb and bent it back as hard as she could. Then when she fell to the ground I hit her back in the nose like she did me all those times. Then I kicked her in the mouth. My god. What have I created. I feel horrible at this point but I am also proud that she can stand up for her self now. She isnt the type that will go pick on other kids now. Sheeeit. She actually broke this other kids thumb and knoked some teeth loose.The parents of the other kid came to my home and made the other kid appolagize to my kid and shook her hand. I thought for sure I was going to be talking to there lawyer. SO, Did I do wrong by having my child taught to protect her self. The wife isnt talking to me at this point.  I dont think I did anything wrong. and she is taught to respect others.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:10:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:12:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:12:44 PM EDT
Good for her.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:14:42 PM EDT

Good for her.

Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:15:23 PM EDT
don't know the legalities of it,

but I(not actually me, but me in your place) would take my little girl out for Ice Cream, and tell her damn good job, but to only use those skills as a last resort, don't take care of the bully only to become the next one,

as far as the parents, well, you tried repeatedly to get this resolved peacefully, and now that bully has been humbled.

sounds like a good day for your average 7 yr old superhero.

I'd be proud.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:15:54 PM EDT
I'd say you did the right thing.  Just remind her again that violence should stay a last resort to a problem, after all the other alternatives are exhausted, as she already knows.  I think it may be a good idea to let her know what is 'too far'  -- kicking the other kid once she was down probably overstepped things by a bit for a kid of any age.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:16:05 PM EDT
as long as your daughter understands that it's not right to hurt others unless they mean to harm you,and it sounds like she does, i'd say you did just fine.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:16:17 PM EDT
IMO, no you did nothing wrong....the system, as usual, failed you the parent.

I was a sub-teacher for a year and I can tell you that our school system will not take any pro-active measures to prevent bullies.....

I have taught my son that you cannot depend on a teacher or a school offical to help him and it's up to him to defend himself and those that cannot defend themselves. Just like the real world....

You did good pop!
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:17:11 PM EDT
Well, your daughter, and you have both learned you can't walk away from bullies, you can't reason with them, make them your friend, nor can you report to authorities and "submit the problem to peer mediation".  What is there to mediate, when a person is being bullied and beat on?

Decisive action stops this crap in its tracks.

"Violence is never the answer," some say.  What does that stupid statement have to do with self defense???

"Violence begats violence," they say.  Ask them, "Are you equating self defense with violence?"

Do not let yourself be shamed or browbeat into being a victim.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:17:13 PM EDT
Sounds like Justice to me!  I just hope the other parents don't have a change of heart and want to bring in the lawyers.  That shit is so unfair.  Their daughter got what she deserved and a lesson has been learned (hopefully)
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:17:27 PM EDT
Good for her.  You and her did nuttin wronge IMO.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:20:07 PM EDT
Sounds like the other girls parents agreed with the results as well.  I commend you on your parenting philosophy of teaching self reliance.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:20:12 PM EDT

I'd say you did the right thing.  Just remind her again that violence should stay a last resort to a problem, after all the other alternatives are exhausted, as she already knows.  I think it may be a good idea to let her know what is 'too far'  -- kicking the other kid once she was down probably overstepped things by a bit for a kid of any age.

Maybe, but it is easy to see what happened.  Once she finally had enough of getting picked on, she really let the other tiny terror have it from all barrels.
You get picked on and you get pissed.  If you have a way to fight back, that anger is your motivation.
Dad, you did good.  Take your girl out and buy her ice cream and take her to a movie.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:20:31 PM EDT
No.  Were we (the US) wrong to defend ourselves when WE were attacked?  If someone comes and picks a fight and physically hurts you, you have a right to fight back.  After what happened with your daughter I think the other kids will think twice before trying to pick a fight with her again.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:21:51 PM EDT
Next time have video!!

That is so awesome... sounds like the really knocked the shit out of that bully. Good for her. Take her to the range this weekend and buy her an ice cream cone. Then make her jog back home while you drive next to her.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:23:26 PM EDT
 Hell no pal, you should  be proud as hell.

Went through the same thing with my son at the same age.

If I can give advice try to stay away from the bullies parents.  Odds are especially at that age they will become buddies now.  Haven't figured that one out but it happens.

I can remember my wife going to the parent of the Bully my kid had just thumped twice my kids size and the mother saying it was all my kids fault.  My wife just said, "Yep, the little kids always picked fights on the big kids when I was in school too." and just stormed out.  

Good story!


BTW, if there is a future concern, I highly recommend martial arts.  The kids are good kids typically, the training is useful, plus it gives them friends in the upper grades capable of defending them.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:23:37 PM EDT
Sounds like she, and you, did well.  As long as you continue to impress upon her that a strong physical response is onlyin self-defense, she's good to go.

And I agree, word will spread fast - nobody will bother her again.

Well done.

Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:25:51 PM EDT
Whoa, that's a (well-deserved) whupping.
Ice cream and a discussion about not striking first seem to be in order.

Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:26:12 PM EDT
You did the right thing, she did the right thing. And she should continue to do it.

I discovered this in Middle School, after deciding the "ignore it!" BS my teachers and the admin gave me. So I busted up a bully's nose, and slowly let it out that I was already a gun nut and whatnot. It spread around.
Fact: If the bullys at a school think that you will kick the crap out of them, or kill them (which is largely the tact I took), they will leave you alone.

Violence is all the know, and they know when something has a bigger potential for violence than they do.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:27:10 PM EDT
sounds like you both did good
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:27:19 PM EDT
I've told my two daughters to do the same thing in that situation .... do WHATEVER you have to do to stop someone that's trying to hurt you then STOP, and I'LL deal with the aftermath.

You did great! .... Chris
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:27:20 PM EDT
Condition her to maintain her discipline so you won't have to use euphemisms to describe her.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:27:51 PM EDT
As noted above, you've provided her with the capability of defending herself.  Now provide her with the responsible attitude for managing that capability.  You don't want her to be the new bully.

In the end you did the right thing.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:28:35 PM EDT
Then make her jog back home while you drive next to her.

Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:29:36 PM EDT
Good cautions guys but not that worried myself, typically at at that age bully comes with size and he states she doesnt' have it.

Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:30:45 PM EDT
Good job Dad and daughter!!
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:31:05 PM EDT
Sounds like an excellent result.  The one thing I wondered was why you didn't at least casually threaten to sick your lawyer on the school if they didn't talk to the other kid.  My point being, if they listen to you as if they are taking this seriously and then do nothing they are dis-respecting you and your kid.  If they had been up front and said they wouldn't it would not only be a miracle but likely have opened them up legally but still.......it would leave you confident that you and your kid would have to solve the problem.

The bully got a good lesson.  Maybe anything less would not be discouraging but a broken thumb and some loose teeth will be a reminder for a while.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:32:12 PM EDT
You all make me feel really good with your comments. I am proud of her. I told her about  30 minute ago that I would like to reward her for standing up for her self and doing good in school and she wanted me to take her camping and to take her to the range to shoot the Bushy. She is actually getting damm good with that thing since I put the Hakko sight on it. So it will be a range session for the family this weekend.
Thanks for the replies everyone.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:32:36 PM EDT
"Immediate and overwhelming violence is the only dignified response to attempted personal assault." --Col. Jeff Cooper
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:33:32 PM EDT
I think she did what needed to be done.   I think the teachers need to get punished too for making your daughter have to do that.

If that bully EVER picks a fight with her again, I will be incredibly surprised.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:36:32 PM EDT
She figured out something that took me a lot longer than 8 years.

Some people dont understand anything but a fist.
There is simply NO other way to reach them!

Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:41:54 PM EDT
When I was in 5th grade, I had a high-school junior wrestling team member grab me from behind and choke me.  I grabbed his arm, bent over at the waist, and flipped him over my shoulder.  When he landed face up, I kicked him square in the jaw.  He had to have it wired shut.

Up until that point, I had been picked on, beat up, and generally had my life made hell with abuse.

I never had a fight again, and never was picked on again.

You AND your daughter did the right thing.  She did not react until she was physically struck.  At that point, let it ALL hang out.  That use of force was appropriate.

Buy her a beanie baby at the next fun show!  But the way it sounds, you may have to buy her her OWN Bushie!
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:47:50 PM EDT

You and you're daughter did good!  

You tried to go through all the proper channels to resolve the situation but no one would do anything.   So now your daughter had to defend herself because no one else will.  If anyone is at fault it's the school system because they failed to do their job.

I bet she won't get picked on again...
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:55:26 PM EDT
I think you did good. Reinforce when it is appropriate and not appropriate to use violence with her though. You might want to make clear you aren't rewarding her for being violent; but for standing up for herself.

Also save any correspondence, teachers remarks, etc. you have from previous attempts to contact the school just in case the parents of the other child rethink and decide to pursue any type of legal action. I doubt it will come up; but doesn't hurt to be prepared.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 1:58:20 PM EDT
Tell her she did good, but reinforce the idea that fighting is wrong unless she is pushed into a corner, as she was. The kid did good.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:01:15 PM EDT
Well done
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:03:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:04:42 PM EDT
Well done, and kudos to the other kids parents as well.   Making their kid come and apologize shows they understand that their kid was in the wrong, and they will probably help teach that kid some manners as well.

Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:12:56 PM EDT
unixcock, your daughter gives me hope for humanity.

Well done.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:26:39 PM EDT
The attiude adjustment to the bully will go along way.

Your daughter was right in doing so. Take out now for so icecream.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:27:42 PM EDT
You and your daughter did exactly what needed to be done.  

The ONLY way to make a bully stop is to beat the crap out of them.  If your daughter would have just stopped once the bully was on the ground, the bully would have stood back up and fought back, and the element of surprise your daughter had in her favor would have been gone.  Once you have a bully down, then you HAVE to teach them a lesson they will NEVER forget.  I can assure you, that bully WON'T forget that lesson anytime soon.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:28:30 PM EDT
She is my new hero of the day.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:43:50 PM EDT
What ColdSteel223 said! Buy that girl some ice cream and ammo.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:54:52 PM EDT
i'm beyond happy to hear that there are still some parents that don't automatically say "my kid would never do that".  they dragged their kid to your house and made her apologize, fucking awesome. if more parents were like that with their demon offspring, the country might still have hope.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 3:03:24 PM EDT
Nice job!! (both you and your kid)  Y'all get lots of bananas.


Kid sticks up for themself, no more bullying, and no litigation.  WOO HOO!!

Link Posted: 5/4/2004 3:06:08 PM EDT

I'd say you did the right thing.  Just remind her again that violence should stay a last resort to a problem, after all the other alternatives are exhausted, as she already knows.  I think it may be a good idea to let her know what is 'too far'  -- kicking the other kid once she was down probably overstepped things by a bit for a kid of any age.

FUCK NO...  She DID NOT go too far.  If that bully NEVER picks on that little girl again (or any other kid, for that matter) she did not go too far.  There is no such thing as a "fair" fight, and this bully picked on the wrong kid for the last time.  Everytime that bully sees the kid that beat her up, she will remember the beating she took for fucking with someone.  Lesson learned, end of story.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 3:11:50 PM EDT
Your daughter did well.  I agree with others and you that as long as she realizes and remembers not to become a bully.  Everyone has a right to defend themselves and others who con't do so themselves.  I hate those public infomation commecials on TV that say "Violence is never the answer" Bullshit sometimes it is the only answer. Get her some ice cream tell her you love her.
She may also need to watch her back as the big girl may come back for more this time with help.  Good luck.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 3:17:41 PM EDT
Your daughter did right and you should be proud of her. When my youngest son was 6y.o. he went to a birthday party. Two 7 y.o. twins started picking on him until they went too far and he defended himself by kicking both their asses.  Then their parents had the gall to call me and demand payment for their kid's ripped clothes until I told them my son was the youngest one at the party.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 3:24:09 PM EDT
When I was about 10 YO, I was constantly being picked on by a large group of older boys.

One day, when I was riding my new bike (287 lawns mowed to buy that fucker, count 'em), one of these ass hats comes up to me and starts repeatedly crashing into my spokes with his tire as to stood on my bike, bending the hell out of them.

"Sorry about your bike, sorry about your bike" he repeated about three times.

Although I was very much a little wus, and my parents hadn't taken any interest in teaching me to defend myself, I blew up.   I hit the guy with a roundhouse that dropped him instantly, commenting "sorry about your face" in the process.  I hopped off my bike and got licks in on two of the other boys before three more of them held me back.  Even then, I got four or five good swift kicks into the ribs of the main instigator.  Years later, I really identified with that scene in A Christmas Storie where little Ralphie beats the everloving shit out of the bully.

After this episode, no one picked on me again.  Even though I was smaller, and more meek than most in my year at school.

Tell your little girl she's in the right, but also that with her power now comes responsibility.  You're a top notch dad, and I'm proud of you too.

Link Posted: 5/4/2004 3:24:56 PM EDT
You did good and so did your little girl.  Give her a pat on the back from the ole Defcon family.  

I agree with the previous feedback.  She needs to more than understand that she is not to be an agressor with her newly utilized skills.  It may have been nice for her to feel some power and now you need to make sure she keeps it in check.

My father had a conversation with me when I was a child I will never forget.  He told me that if someone was messing with me to ignore them.  If someone laid a hand on me, pay them back quickly and swiftly.  He let me know that if I was touched first he would stand behind me to the end.  As my brothers and I grew up, his words came to haunt him.  
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