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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/1/2004 5:51:37 AM EST
From AP, but I didn't locate the link yet

We all know the drill: 'We don't Know what it is, but we know its not __________________'


(AP) Trucker shot by trooper being investigated for terrorist ties
By LUCAS L. JOHNSON II
Associated Press Writer
NASHVILLE, Tenn.
Authorities say the unusual behavior of a New York truck driver who was
pulled over for speeding and then shot during a confrontation with a
state trooper has prompted them to investigate possible terrorist ties.

Mohammed Medhat Karim, 46, was pulled over Monday by Tennessee Highway
Patrol Trooper Thomas C. Kilpatrick for speeding on U.S. Highway 64 in
Wayne County, about 80 miles southwest of Nashville.

As Kilpatrick was returning with the citation, authorities said Karim
backed into the trooper's car, and "there was a confrontation at that
time."

Kilpatrick fired several shots, striking the driver in his chest,
according to reports. Karim somehow took the gun away from the trooper,
got back in his rig and drove about a mile before apparently realizing
he had been shot and pulled over, authorities said. He was then
arrested.

"It's a very strange set of circumstances," said District Attorney
General Mike Bottoms, who called for the probe. "We're trying to find
out why a driver would act the way this one did for a speeding ticket."

Maj. Gen. Jerry Humble, director of Tennessee's Homeland Security, said
authorities "don't have any indication right now" that Karim may be tied
to terrorists, but they're just being "cautious."

"It's normal procedure," Humble said. "This is the world we live in
after 9/11, so this is the steps we have to take. Law enforcement never
know what's going to happen."

Humble agreed with Bottoms that it was Karim's "actions" that "raised
our eyebrows," not his foreign-sounding name or the fact that President
Bush was in town Tuesday to speak to the American Legion national
convention.

"It was irrational behavior from a commercial truck driver, and this was
a crime," Humble said.

Karim's tractor trailer has been impounded, he said, and it's going to
be off-loaded.

Meanwhile, Karim remains at Vanderbilt University Medical Center where
he was listed in critical condition Tuesday. No charges have been filed
against him, and his driving record was not available under New York
privacy laws.

Kilpatrick has been placed on administrative leave with pay.


Link Posted: 9/1/2004 5:54:06 AM EST
HE was probably "cranked-up" or wired, not necessarily a terrorist.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 5:56:01 AM EST

Kilpatrick fired several shots, striking the driver in his chest,
according to reports. Karim somehow took the gun away from the trooper,
got back in his rig and drove about a mile before apparently realizing
he had been shot and pulled over, authorities said. He was then
arrested.



WTF? Was the driver wearing a vest? (or was the trooper using a .22?)

Link Posted: 9/1/2004 5:57:36 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:00:41 AM EST
Our troopers carry ar15s, must not have used it. Still can't get the same story twice here.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:07:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/1/2004 6:07:53 AM EST by RustyTX]

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
Still can't get the same story twice here.



If its the real deal the story will die a quiet death.

What happened with the Land Rover that blew up at the hotel in Nashville? That one went quiet on day 2. Just another freak accident (ala twa800 ). Perhaps we should have a recall on Land Rovers so they don't explode randomly in front of hotels/daycare centers. It worked for Boeing.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:10:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:11:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:18:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By ClayP:
HE was probably "cranked-up" or wired, not necessarily a terrorist.




Yeah, because illicit drug use is sooooooo rampant in the trucking community!


Isn't it just entirely possible he's just a piece of shit dirtbag?

... In the trucking industry????
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:21:40 AM EST
Irregardless of the facts of this case, truckers better be on their tippy-toes in TN!!

Fist of all, TN has never enjoyed a reputation for being "Trucker Friendly" like say, WI.

Lady cop killed when struck by some ASSHAT trucker in Nashville...

Now this deal, which we'll never know all the facts about...

I double check my rig and triple check my paperwork before going thru TN anymore.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:22:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Merrell:

WTF? Was the driver wearing a vest?



Do you think handguns are some kind of death ray? It's not that uncommon.

Why do you think so many like to use shotgun or .223 carbines as home defense weapons instead of puny handguns?
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:26:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
Kilpatrick fired several shots, striking the driver in his chest,
according to reports. Karim somehow took the gun away from the trooper,
got back in his rig and drove about a mile before apparently realizing
he had been shot and pulled over, authorities said. He was then
arrested.


yikes!




yikes is right, time for a bigger gun
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:31:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:35:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
if he was an al queda operative wouldn't he have finished the trooper off once he got the gun away from him?



Or he got here and realized that this particular Trooper was not 'soft and weak' like they taught him at terrorist camp.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:45:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:49:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Well the trucker/terrorist managed, unarmed. to disarm the trooper after being shot, I wouldn't exactly put that one in the "win" column for the cop, I think if he'd been some kind of -whatever, "trained combatant" he'd have killed the trooper once he disarmed him. Sounds more like a nutcase, had warrants for something regular criminal activity, etc.



Obviously a nutjob. The flavor would be the question.


Originally Posted By Aimless:
Too bad it wasn't a golden retriever driving that truck, the TN State Police have a better record against them.



Cold! But true...
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 6:55:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:07:48 AM EST
I know Wayne county my stepdad has some hunting land there and there really isn't anything there to be honest, However if he is found to have ties to terrorist organizations I have no simpathy for him
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:15:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Some fed agency did do a check this year and found some (30?) "watch list people" with some kind of hazardous material driver's license (I don't know much about truck driver licenses). I don't doubt they'd use trucks, like fuel trucks, but I can't see thembothering to take a long term job as truck driver, just learn how to drive the truck well enough to get it to the destination then take what you need at gun point at a depot/rest stop etc.



Trucker would seem to be the perfect job for a sleeper - build a history (to pass checks), get familiar with the routes & procedures. I'm surprised he didn't just eat the ticket, unless he was worried something else might have been discovered (he backed his truck into the cruiser late in the stop) - and why (after being shot) did he take the trooper's weapon? weird.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:28:26 AM EST

Too bad it wasn't a golden retriever driving that truck, the TN State Police have a better record against them.


Was that state popo? I thought it was county popo did that.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:51:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By Merrell:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Some fed agency did do a check this year and found some (30?) "watch list people" with some kind of hazardous material driver's license (I don't know much about truck driver licenses). I don't doubt they'd use trucks, like fuel trucks, but I can't see thembothering to take a long term job as truck driver, just learn how to drive the truck well enough to get it to the destination then take what you need at gun point at a depot/rest stop etc.



Trucker would seem to be the perfect job for a sleeper - build a history (to pass checks), get familiar with the routes & procedures. I'm surprised he didn't just eat the ticket, unless he was worried something else might have been discovered (he backed his truck into the cruiser late in the stop) - and why (after being shot) did he take the trooper's weapon? weird.



Uh, guys... it's not really that big a deal to get a CDL with HazMat, then get a job yankin a fuel tanker. Thousands of folks do it every year.

The ATA (American Truck-Tards Assoc) out of Arkansas got hundreds of thousands of your tax dollars for the "Highway Watch" program, to train truckers to be Amerika's army of eyes with a hotline to a "secure location" to report suspicious non-party approved activity.

It's a fuckin joke. This particular concept of "Fatherland Sekurity" is a fuckin joke.

Leave the truckers alone, give the airline pilots their guns and shut up, get your ass on the mexican border if you want to "secure" the "homeland".
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 7:52:17 AM EST
9mm. Bah!

CW
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 12:50:30 PM EST
A) the guy who blew himself up at Opry Mills was deemed a suicide. Seems to be accurate, IMO.

B) The cops/media are sitting on the shot trucker story tighter than hell. NO info is getting out it seems.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 12:59:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By BobCole:
A) the guy who blew himself up at Opry Mills was deemed a suicide. Seems to be accurate, IMO.




Suicide Bob? That's pretty uncommon. Did they say what he used (black powder, etc.)?
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 1:08:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By avengeusa:

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
Kilpatrick fired several shots, striking the driver in his chest,
according to reports. Karim somehow took the gun away from the trooper,
got back in his rig and drove about a mile before apparently realizing
he had been shot and pulled over, authorities said. He was then
arrested.


yikes!




yikes is right, time for a bigger gun



Or better shot placement. And how the hell does someone get shot, then disarm the cop?
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 1:15:03 PM EST
Interesting. Here in Louisiana a lot of people I know that frequently use the Interstate Highways have reported a hell of a lot of trucks being stopped. Something could be up.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 2:09:02 PM EST
The guy was probably high on something, or his adrenaline was really going strong.

But how in the hell did he get the gun from the Trooper??? Did the Trooper think the guy was gonna drop dead before he reached him and so he though a final shot wasn't necessary? Or were they in a struggle for control over the gun when it started going off?

I'd be interested to know more about this story...
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 4:05:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By Whitedog:
Interesting. Here in Louisiana a lot of people I know that frequently use the Interstate Highways have reported a hell of a lot of trucks being stopped. Something could be up.



Wasjust in LA this week, didn't even get pulled across the scales.

Chances are the stopped trucks had some kind of violations.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 4:08:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By Merrell:

Kilpatrick fired several shots, striking the driver in his chest,
according to reports. Karim somehow took the gun away from the trooper,
got back in his rig and drove about a mile before apparently realizing
he had been shot and pulled over, authorities said. He was then
arrested.



WTF? Was the driver wearing a vest? (or was the trooper using a .22?)


Or both
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 4:11:55 PM EST
I would think drugs were involved, because he didnt know he was shot, but the etrooper probably would have picked up on that.
Link Posted: 9/1/2004 4:27:16 PM EST
I got an e-mail from the guy I used to work for as an instructor . He's retired metro LEO . I'll see what info I can get out of him. Take care. Coondog
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 9:57:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By RustyTX:

Originally Posted By BobCole:
A) the guy who blew himself up at Opry Mills was deemed a suicide. Seems to be accurate, IMO.




Suicide Bob? That's pretty uncommon. Did they say what he used (black powder, etc.)?



Suicide is "uncommon"?
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 10:03:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 10:11:44 AM EST
Was the trooper using the 9mm????????
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 10:16:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 10:32:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 10:37:20 AM EST by lawsec]

Originally Posted By rifleman2000:

Originally Posted By avengeusa:

Originally Posted By CAMPYBOB:
Kilpatrick fired several shots, striking the driver in his chest,
according to reports. Karim somehow took the gun away from the trooper,
got back in his rig and drove about a mile before apparently realizing
he had been shot and pulled over, authorities said. He was then
arrested.


yikes!




yikes is right, time for a bigger gun



Or better shot placement. And how the hell does someone get shot, then disarm the cop?



Adrenalin is powerful. So is anger. Determination also plays a part.

Many muslim terrorists are very disciplined and really WANT to accomplish their goals. Much like the VC. Many of them were shot to hell and were still trying to kill Americans with their last heartbeat. We Were Soldiers [book] has an excellent account of a VC who was pretty much dead, but was still trying to pull a hand grenade out of the pouch.

If this person was a muslim terrorist, he may have been highly motivated to NOT allow this cop to get in his way.

Then we get into the ever popular debate of which caliber is supreme.

Shock impact and blood loss are what deanimate.

Shock impact - if sufficient - is faster. If you can hit them with enough foot-pounds of energy and transfer it to their nervous system, you can overload their nervous system and shut them down. Takes a good shot placement or a powerful round. The more powerful the round the less critical shot placement is here.

Blood loss takes a while. Drop the pressure until they can't remain upright. Alas, when they pass out and go horizontal, the pressure goes back up and they can become a threat again. Shot placement is more critical here. Have to hit something that will bleeed a lot as fast a possible.

The less energy the bullet has, the more critical shot placement becomes. I have spoken with a lot of EMT's at and after shootings. Granted this is annecdotal, but here is what I have compiled as examples of common victim conditions after being non-fatally shot...

9mm and smaller - tend to be walking around, pissed off. Generally ambulatory unless the shot hit something that bleeds a lot [time dependant - the longer they have been bleeding the worse they are] or is a good conduit for shock.

40S&W - more sitting than standing or walking. Usually in greater pain, others more similar to 9mm. May or may not be ambulatory depending on shot placement. Extremity wounds less incapacitating than torso/head wounds, but better than 9mm and smaller.

.45 - usually laying down or sitting - very rarely ambulatory or even standing. Extremity wounds are generally enough to get them to lay down due to more severe trauma and visual impact of injuries to victim.

Just because you shoot the bad guy to make him stop doing whatever it was he was doing that caused you to have to shoot him, doesn't mean that he can't still be a threat.

Moral of the story, carry the biggest round you can control, place your shots well, and carry a spare magazine or two. Learn and practice weapon retention tactics.

Link Posted: 9/2/2004 12:03:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/2/2004 12:04:18 PM EST by Forest]

Originally Posted By lawsec:
Shock impact - if sufficient - is faster. If you can hit them with enough foot-pounds of energy and transfer it to their nervous system, you can overload their nervous system and shut them down. Takes a good shot placement or a powerful round. The more powerful the round the less critical shot placement is here.


Oh man do you make up this drivel or does Hollywood write it for you?

Please name 1 peer reviewed research paper that proves the 'existance of shock to the nervous system' let alone it doing any dammage.



The less energy the bullet has, the more critical shot placement becomes.

Shot placement is always critical. BTW I can show PLENTY of examples where projectiles of a 'lower engery' cause more dammage and can have more variance from optimal shot placement and still do a fair job.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 1:14:50 PM EST
Bull feces,,his NYS driving record is a matter of public record,,the LEO's down there can bring up his records easy as pie.....
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 1:27:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By ClayP:
HE was probably "cranked-up" or wired, not necessarily a terrorist.




Yeah, because illicit drug use is sooooooo rampant in the trucking community!





Methamphetamine use is more common in trucking than Arab/Muslem truckers.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 1:27:56 PM EST
Bull feces,,his NYS driving record is a matter of public record,,the LEO's down there can bring up his records easy as pie.....rule number one ask Paramedics about treating ALS "trauma" patients not basic EMT's the body compensates then decompensates he obviously was not shot effectively,,which is good because if the a hole lives then maybe he will be a source of info. It is bullet placement and caliber,,,you want a round that allows most of the energy to be dissapated in the wound zone,,higher caliber weapons often exit and in doing so leave less "trauma" as far as shutting down the CNS only a head shot in the noreflex zone will do that of course if you sever the c-spine he's a rag doll c1 c2.....sounds more like poor fire discpline,,,,,and yes as a former Marine/retired NYC LEO and Paramedic I've not only squeezed off well placed shots,,hell one off duty shooting I dropped the perp with one round .38 every Cop I spoke to said why didn't you empty your revolver,,I said I had 5 rounds in my off duty S&W and it took only one round....And I've treated gunshot vic's as aParamedic
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 3:00:14 PM EST
Maybe the truck driver was afraid the cop was going to shoot his dog.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 3:04:42 PM EST
I am starting to believe that terrorism coverage is being suppresed in America right now.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 3:20:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By BLY:
The guy was probably high on something, or his adrenaline was really going strong.

But how in the hell did he get the gun from the Trooper??? Did the Trooper think the guy was gonna drop dead before he reached him and so he though a final shot wasn't necessary? Or were they in a struggle for control over the gun when it started going off?

I'd be interested to know more about this story...



Maybe he ran out of bullets.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 4:05:09 PM EST
Unless it's been changed THP are issued Smith & Wesson .40s.
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