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Posted: 5/7/2008 2:07:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2008 2:07:44 PM EST by KA3B]


Who is this?
What year?
Make and model of motorcycle?
Race series?
Where did he place?

Real trivia, make and name of replica helmet?
Link Posted: 5/7/2008 4:35:31 PM EST
King Kenny, California, 1976
Link Posted: 5/7/2008 4:52:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2008 4:53:26 PM EST by timb3]
Wow. I have no idea on most of it other than it being out west somwhere, but off the top of my head, the bike _might_ be an FZ750 (yamaha)?

Tag for results?
Link Posted: 5/7/2008 5:12:24 PM EST
Don't know who it is, but it looks very '80s. Appears to be Willow Springs run backwards (my first race at Willow was when it was run backwards--a rarity, but I think it threw the regulars off enough that I was able to beat a buddy of mine in AARA's 450cc Mod Prod who rode a very quick RD). I'm going to guess that it's a Freddie Spencer-replica Arai.
Link Posted: 5/7/2008 5:37:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2008 5:55:43 PM EST by timb3]
Okay, after checking around... Kevin Schwantz... Willow Springs. The bike will be a Suzuki GS750ES, but that's not a stock swingarm. I'm guessing that's a Yoshimura team bike. 1985 AMA superbike. He won the race.

Close?

Edited to add: Helmet's an Arai?
Link Posted: 5/7/2008 11:13:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2008 11:14:22 PM EST by KA3B]
That's Kevin Schwantz at Willow on the cool-off lap after he won the second leg of the Kerker 100 / 1985 AMA Pro-Am Superbike race.

He's on the short straight between turns three and four, and that was the track before Willow shaved down that hill.

That was Sunday, April 27th, 1985.

He's on a Suzuki GS700E, which was the bike that Yosh built for their AMA Superbike return.

He's wearing a Fred Merkle replica Arai helmet.

Even though Schwantz won you have to remember that the only "real" factory involvement in Superbike racing was Honda with the VF750F.

Yamaha was only sponsering Sam McDonald, allthough they gave Jim Filice a couple of FZ750's that year.

After the AMA Superbikes went to 750cc's in '83 BMW, Ducati and Suzuki left the series (Yamaha was never in it), and after Rainey won the '83 Superbike title Kawasaki pulled out the next year.

In 84 and 85 it was a Honda show with a couple of ex-Muzzy/Kawasaki GpZ750's and a couple of semi-factory FZ750's to fill up the grid

Schwantz and the Yosh bike were the spoilers.

For that weekend there were 22 racers registered,
11 Hondas, 4 Yamaha's, 4 Suzuki's and 3 Kawasakis.

Some of the riders were Fred Merkle, Sam McDonald, Reuben McMurter, Ricky Orlando, Dale Quarterly, Wes Cooley, John Ashmead, John Kocinski, Scott Gray, "Scary" Carry Andrews, Kevin Schwantz and Jim Filice.
Link Posted: 5/8/2008 12:28:23 AM EST
I do remember those days. Those were all some great racers. I remember being pissed about the change to 750's... and about Reagan helping harley by putting that tariff on anything over 700cc's. I had forgotten that yosh ran a 700 though. I was thinking they'd used a 750 regardless of the tariff. - But there are a lot of cobwebs there when I try to remember that far back.

Here are some more photos from that period for ya...






Link Posted: 5/8/2008 11:28:02 AM EST

Originally Posted By timb3:
I had forgotten that yosh ran a 700 though. I was thinking they'd used a 750 regardless of the tariff.


Yosh ran the 700 as it was getting support from Suzuki, and none of the factories want to use last years technology (or bikes) when it comes to factory BASED racing.

The RC30's were kicking the RC45's asses in the first year they came out.

And it was a 700 in name only, the displacement "limit" for the class was 750 cc's, and the rules stated that you could go to the largest sized overbore piston offeredby the factory, which gained a couple of cc's.

Are those your pictures?
If they are, send them to Dean Adams at Superbike Planet, he's always on the lookout for any early Kevin Schwantz AMA photos.

That bike looks like it would be so fun to run around as a street bike!
Link Posted: 5/8/2008 11:53:43 AM EST
Hmmm... How certain are you about yosh using the 700 version? I would have thought Yosh would have just gone ahead and started out with the 750 version instead of boring out the 700. Unless the tariff amounted to more money than the cost of boring it out themselves, that is. I mean I remember the 750's being available to people who didn't mind paying the tariff. Not too many people bought them though, and I don't think they brought many into the country. I remember the tariff being a percentage of the price of the bike, and it was highest during the first year and slowly went to a lower percentage each following year until it was phased out entirely. I can't remember what the percentages were though.

Just thinking out loud. I'm sure you're probably right about it being a bored out 700.


On the pictures - unfortunately, they're just some I found on the net. I _wish_ they were mine.

On another note... After looking around some more, are you positive about that helmet identification. Based on some pix (see links) it looks like it might actually be a wes cooley replica.

www.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/hofbiopage.asp?id=315

and

cgi.ebay.it/Arai-Signet-GT-Size-XL-VERY-RARE-WES-COOLEY-REPLICA_W0QQitemZ290222156893QQihZ019QQcategoryZ72278­QQcmdZViewItem

If you look really closely at the picture you posted, it looks like Kevin might be looking away from the camera, in which case, that color scheme would match up well with the cooley helmet.

See what you think...
Link Posted: 5/8/2008 1:25:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2008 4:17:51 PM EST by KA3B]
I don't think, I know, you're right, it's a Wes Cooley replica, not a Fred Merkle replica helmet.

Yosh used a GS700 because that's what Suzuki gave them.
Now who knows what engine they actually used.

As far as the bikes went, Kawasaki's GpZ750, GpZ750 Turbo and the 900 Ninja were all made in America, so no tariff.
The KZ700's were made in Japan.

Suzuki, Yamaha and Honda's were made in Japan, so they had 700 versions.
Honda and Yamaha had both 700/750 versions of their VFR/FZ bikes while Suzuki came out with GSXR750 only bike.

Link Posted: 5/8/2008 3:57:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2008 3:59:25 PM EST by timb3]
Man, you're really making me think hard here. All that was so damn long ago.

Your comments got me to thinking, so I refreshed my memory on the tariff, and I can sort of understand why suzuki didn't bother with making the gsxr750 in a 700 version. It was such a new-tech item at that time, that they could afford to ask the higher price. Besides, the first two years of the tariff were by far the worst. 49% in '83, 39% in 84... but it dropped to 24% in 85, then 19% in 86 and 14% in 87, then went away entirely in 88 (well, it went back to the original 4%). When you consider the fact that hardly davidson had always significantly over priced their junk, and didn't make anything even remotely close to competitive, Suzuki could afford to tack the remnants of the tariff onto such a nice new bike. I mean, that thing was a major step forward for sport bikes, ya know? I remember drooling on them in the local dealership when the first ones came in. I couldn't afford one at the time, though. Even if there had been no tariff. - But hey... I have an '01 at the moment.

Thanks for posting all that! It's fun to try to remember that stuff once in a while. But it does sorta make me remember how old I'm getting.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 7:21:16 PM EST
I told you it was a GS700.





Originally Posted By timb3:
Hmmm... How certain are you about yosh using the 700 version? I would have thought Yosh would have just gone ahead and started out with the 750 version instead of boring out the 700. Unless the tariff amounted to more money than the cost of boring it out themselves, that is. I mean I remember the 750's being available to people who didn't mind paying the tariff. Not too many people bought them though, and I don't think they brought many into the country. I remember the tariff being a percentage of the price of the bike, and it was highest during the first year and slowly went to a lower percentage each following year until it was phased out entirely. I can't remember what the percentages were though.

Just thinking out loud. I'm sure you're probably right about it being a bored out 700.


On the pictures - unfortunately, they're just some I found on the net. I _wish_ they were mine.

On another note... After looking around some more, are you positive about that helmet identification. Based on some pix (see links) it looks like it might actually be a wes cooley replica.

www.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/hofbiopage.asp?id=315

and

cgi.ebay.it/Arai-Signet-GT-Size-XL-VERY-RARE-WES-COOLEY-REPLICA_W0QQitemZ290222156893QQihZ019QQcategoryZ72278­QQcmdZViewItem

If you look really closely at the picture you posted, it looks like Kevin might be looking away from the camera, in which case, that color scheme would match up well with the cooley helmet.

See what you think...
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 8:11:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2008 4:03:59 AM EST by Winston_Wolf]
... 1) Which handlebar do you push forward to turn right?

... 2) Under max-effort braking, how much of the braking is done by each end?
(a) 50%R/50%F
(b) 25%R/75%F
(c) 0%R/100%F
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 8:19:59 PM EST

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... 1) Which handlebar do you push forward to turn right?

... 2) Under max-effort braking, how much of the braking is done by each end?
(a) 50%R/50%F, 25%R
(b) 75%F
(c) 0%R/100%F



Neither.
None.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 9:06:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... 1) Which handlebar do you push forward to turn right?

... 2) Under max-effort braking, how much of the braking is done by each end?
(a) 50%R/50%F, 25%R
(b) 75%F
(c) 0%R/100%F


www.vaq34.com/junk/1987_Jawa_2_valve_at_Maelys_Corona_track.jpg
Neither.
None.



Link Posted: 6/3/2008 9:14:22 PM EST
But to be serious...

Push right to go right.

100% front. It's hard to use the rear brake when the rear wheel is in the air.




Link Posted: 6/3/2008 11:15:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By timb3:
But to be serious...
Push right to go right.
100% front. It's hard to use the rear brake when the rear wheel is in the air.


I am different, I pull on the left handlebar to go right.

While I agree that the front brake does most of the braking (or 100% when the rear wheel is in the air) I still say that on a garbage barge (Harley, Goldwing, BMW or cruiser type bike) you'll almost never ever get the rear wheel in the air and in that situation if you don't use the rear brake you're not going to get to use 100% of the avalible braking.

Just to toss a monkey wrench and 5 gallons of gasoline into the fire, I give you linked braking.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 12:58:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2008 1:04:00 AM EST by MEDIKEIGHTED]
is there something I'm missing on the push right go right theory? On my bike (a cruiser) if I push my right handlebar forward I'm turning left. If I push forward (same plane if travel as I'm facing) on the left side I go right. Is push right go right a sportbike only thing or what am I missing? or is it considered pushing right because you orbit around a pivot? seems backwards to how it feels.

or is this related to counter steering? I understand turning the opposite way to start the lean and then turning into where you want to go.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 1:21:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By MEDIKEIGHTED:
is there something I'm missing on the push right go right theory? On my bike (a cruiser) if I push my right handlebar forward I'm turning left. If I push forward (same plane if travel as I'm facing) on the left side I go right. Is push right go right a sportbike only thing or what am I missing? or is it considered pushing right because you orbit around a pivot? seems backwards to how it feels.

or is this related to counter steering? I understand turning the opposite way to start the lean and then turning into where you want to go.


Yes, it's countersteering.

You initiate the turn by pushing on the handlebar that's in the direction you want to turn.

Go about 20 mph, get ready to make a right turn (make sure you can safely make a right turn) and give the right handlebar a good push, then follow through with your turn.


Link Posted: 6/4/2008 1:29:46 AM EST
i push and pull, usually. dunno where i got that from. guess its to build up familiarity with turning with either hand.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 11:25:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... 1) Which handlebar do you push forward to turn right?

... 2) Under max-effort braking, how much of the braking is done by each end?
(a) 50%R/50%F
(b) 25%R/75%F
(c) 0%R/100%F




Link Posted: 6/4/2008 3:05:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2008 3:48:00 PM EST by timb3]

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By timb3:
But to be serious...
Push right to go right.
100% front. It's hard to use the rear brake when the rear wheel is in the air.


I am different, I pull on the left handlebar to go right.

While I agree that the front brake does most of the braking (or 100% when the rear wheel is in the air) I still say that on a garbage barge (Harley, Goldwing, BMW or cruiser type bike) you'll almost never ever get the rear wheel in the air and in that situation if you don't use the rear brake you're not going to get to use 100% of the avalible braking.

Just to toss a monkey wrench and 5 gallons of gasoline into the fire, I give you linked braking.





Actually, you make a good point. Those sorry hunks of junk (all except bmw, who seem to be making some effort to do better lately) have such bad brakes and screwed up weight distribution, there's really no good way to make them stop (quickly, that is).

But linked braking is probably a good idea on those... 'cause it'll force the dummies who ride them to use the front at least a _little_ (not that everyone who rides them is a dummy). Of course, those are the same type people who remove the front brake lever ("cause thayum thangs'll gitchee kilt")... so I guess they'd probably try to disable the linked system. - What can ya say? Darwin in action.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 3:26:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/4/2008 3:52:39 PM EST by timb3]

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By MEDIKEIGHTED:
is there something I'm missing on the push right go right theory? On my bike (a cruiser) if I push my right handlebar forward I'm turning left. If I push forward (same plane if travel as I'm facing) on the left side I go right. Is push right go right a sportbike only thing or what am I missing? or is it considered pushing right because you orbit around a pivot? seems backwards to how it feels.

or is this related to counter steering? I understand turning the opposite way to start the lean and then turning into where you want to go.


Yes, it's countersteering.

You initiate the turn by pushing on the handlebar that's in the direction you want to turn.

Go about 20 mph, get ready to make a right turn (make sure you can safely make a right turn) and give the right handlebar a good push, then follow through with your turn.





+1

It's impossible to turn any motorcycle any other way if you're going at anything above about 5 or 10mph. The fact that a lot of people don't realize this basic fact has caused many injuries and deaths over the decades. They get in an emergency situation and try to turn the bars to the right to go right... and of course the bike tries to turn left... so they freak out and freeze up and crash.

Do what KA3B says. You'll see what he means. The longer/harder you keep that forward pressure on the bar in the direction you want to turn, the further over the bike will lean (and thus the more it'll turn). If you were to watch a video tape of what's happening to the front wheel while this is going on, you could only detect the wheel turning in the opposite direction for the tiniest fraction of a second (if at all), then you'll see the wheel turning in the direction of the turn... BUT while this is going on, you are still pushing forward on the bar on the side which you want to turn toward (and/or pulling on the opposite one). Sounds crazy, but your pushing forward on that side is continually acting against the inertia of the bike to adjust the lean angle (and thus the radius of the turn) by keeping the bike wanting to "fall" in that direction. Easy to do, but hard to explain. If you think about the physics of it for a while, it'll come to you.

Better yet, go take a rider school and they'll simply show you 1st hand what's going on. Rider education will save your life. Take every class you can afford.

Here's a place to start:
www.msf-usa.org/
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 10:50:49 AM EST
Yeah I understand counter steering and have experimented with it. I just wasn't sure if that was what they were talking about.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 6:13:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By Winston_Wolf:
... 1) Which handlebar do you push forward to turn right?

... 2) Under max-effort braking, how much of the braking is done by each end?
(a) 50%R/50%F, 25%R
(b) 75%F
(c) 0%R/100%F


www.vaq34.com/junk/1987_Jawa_2_valve_at_Maelys_Corona_track.jpg
Neither.
None.


Now were talking, Jawa flat track, I used to go watch my uncle ride back in the 70s, he was national champ at one time " Rollin Rich MacMurray ".
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