Motor oil (beating a dead horse)

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Motor oil (beating a dead horse)

Posted: 9/10/2005 6:18:41 PM EDT

I read that Mobile 1 switched from using an all PAO synthetic base stock to a Group III base, which is what is used in Castrol Syntec and non-synthetic oils. I understand that Amsoil and Red Line are now the two most available 100% synthetic oils (meaning, they use a PAO synthetic base plus synthetic additives).

Is this true? I know Castol advertises Syntec as 100% synthetic, but that appears not to be true.

Also, here is a link to a test of some major oil brands.
Oil Tests

The test could be biased, I don't know, but I was surprised to see Castrol GTX score low on many of the tests. I always heard it was good stuff. What's the deal?

Posted: 9/10/2005 6:23:10 PM EDT

[#1]

I'm sure that Amsoil is fine stuff, but their aggressive marketing annoys me.

All oils are good. I use plain ol' yellow bottle Pennzoil. No problems in 28 years of driving.

Posted: 9/10/2005 7:05:08 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Also, here is a link to a test of some major oil brands.
Oil Tests

Thats more of a sales pitch than an actual unbiased study.

Amsoil is allegedly good though.

Posted: 9/10/2005 7:07:46 PM EDT

[#3]

Mobil now has a synthetic mix like the others, but my understanding is mobil 1 is still 100% synthetic. Amsoil and mobil 1 are good stuff.

Posted: 9/10/2005 7:31:23 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Mobil now has a synthetic mix like the others, but my understanding is mobil 1 is still 100% synthetic. Amsoil and mobil 1 are good stuff.

According to some posts I have seen on the web (could be suspect), Mobil 1 switched from a PAO base to a Group III base, which is what Castrol Syntec uses. It is also cheaper. It is a petroleum base. Prior to that, they used a 100% PAO synthetic base.

If this is true, Mobile 1, like Castrol Syntec, is no longer 100% synthetic.

I'm just trying to prevent sludge build-up in the wife's Toyota.

Posted: 9/10/2005 7:35:17 PM EDT

[#5]

Change your oil every three months or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first, and you'll do fine. The synthetic oil is a waste of money.

Posted: 9/10/2005 7:39:15 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Change your oil every three months or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first, and you'll do fine. The synthetic oil is a waste of money.

Ever driven in 40 degree below zero weather? Dino oil sucks ass. Plain and simple.

Posted: 9/10/2005 7:41:36 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Change your oil every three months or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first, and you'll do fine. The synthetic oil is a waste of money.

Not in a turbo.

100k plus miles in my TDI with no turbo issues.

Posted: 9/10/2005 7:41:58 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Change your oil every three months or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first, and you'll do fine. The synthetic oil is a waste of money.

changing your oil every 3k miles is a waste of money. Its the filters that require the changing. Besides we all know that the viscosity breakdown on a pure synthetic is about 3 times the life of dino based oils right? Right? So how is that a waste of money again?

Posted: 9/10/2005 7:42:05 PM EDT

[#9]

been using Mobil-1 since day 1 in my Minnesota car, no problems at all. It's a lowly 99 Dodge Stratus with a V6.

Posted: 9/10/2005 7:47:26 PM EDT

[#10]

Drove a peterbilt 800,000 miles with an oil change every 10,000 miles and never got an oil sludge build up, nor a single mechanical problem for that matter

11 gallons of Shell Rotella T, 20W50

Synthetics are good but as long as you keep it changed you wont need the extra protection that they claim, if you're going to neglect it then go for the synthetics

Posted: 9/10/2005 8:29:06 PM EDT

[#11]

Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?

Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application.

www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_FAQs.aspx#FAQs3

Posted: 9/10/2005 8:36:20 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Change your oil every three months or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first, and you'll do fine. The synthetic oil is a waste of money.

Not in Texas in steady heat. Everyone I know who has tried synthetics in heavy equipment, OTR tractors, cartage trucks, whatever has seen a decrease in temperature (the synthetics transfer heat better than the petroleum oils), a slight increase in economy, and usually a noticeable NVH reduction AND THEN they have the savings from much longer drains with normal oil analysis (although that usually is more downtime and labor and that doesn't map the same way to cars and light trucks). Especially with turbodeisels.

And, frankly, these days you are fine with an 8k mile oil change interval unless you use really crappy oil. With the nicer Swepco oils, you can go 12k before the oil even starts to break down.

Posted: 9/10/2005 9:18:10 PM EDT

[#13]

Certain Toyotas have a sludge buildup problem I cant remember the
the models or years but I did read this about a year ago when my daughter was looking to
buy one. Pretty easy to find info probably. They did say that the remedy for it was to
change oil at or before 3000 miles.

Posted: 9/10/2005 9:22:30 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Certain Toyotas have a sludge buildup problem I cant remember the
the models or years but I did read this about a year ago when my daughter was looking to
buy one. Pretty easy to find info probably. They did say that the remedy for it was to
change oil at or before 3000 miles.

I took in a Corolla that had oil that looled like chocolate pudding. I stuck my finger in and scooped it out. The damn car ran like a champ though. The woman hadnt changed the oil in 25k she claimed. I beleive her.

Posted: 9/10/2005 9:28:11 PM EDT

[#15]

Also seriously. Changing your oil every 3000 miles isnt harmful but its certainly not needed. With even the dino oils you can go about 5000 - 7000 miles on average in moderate driving and using a decent filter. Well in any car made in the last 15 yrs and with any decent oil.

Synthetics do last a hell of a lot longer under a working environment though. I uses Mobil 1 and I change it every 5-7k even though I probably dont have to for over 12k.

I own my vehicles, not the bank. I keep my vehicles for a long time and thats why I put the best I can in them. Right now I had a 1998 Chrysler Town and Country, still going strong, 1998 Nissan Pathfinder, drives like new. I use only the best fluids in them and change them at reasonable intervals.

Actually I just went past the 5k mark in the T&C but am not worried. I am more worried about the filter than the oil but I always change both at the same time. I think I will send off this oil to be tested. LAst time I did that at 8500k and it said t was still good to protect and cool. I changed the filter at 5k though.

ETS I also got about 2.7 mpg better milage on each vehicle after I switched.

Posted: 9/10/2005 9:31:38 PM EDT

[#16]

... Once my new S&S motor broke in I went Mobil 1 synthetic. Also heard that the formula switched recently, hence the difference in the color of the caps. Was informed that the new blend will perform as well or better than the old.

... I'm of the belief that an air-cooled engine in the hot Arizona desert needs that added protection of a good synthetics - it will run cooler as well.

Posted: 9/10/2005 11:37:14 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Not in Texas in steady heat.

Yep, I've got a car with over 180k miles on it running synthetic oil, multiple brands depending on which one is on sale at the time. Ambient tempertures are over 100 degrees F on top of road surfaces in TX.

Posted: 9/11/2005 1:10:46 AM EDT

[#18]

Here's the situation: My wife and I got a good deal on a 1999 Toyota Sienna with moderate mileage (74,000). That years falls into the category of Toyotas that have the sludge problem. The car seems to run great, although when I looked into the valve cover, it was not a pretty sight. There is noticeable sludge.

Supposedly, the heads are the problem. The head design of the 3.0 V6 for that year (and a couple of other years) is such that there is a problem with high temperatures. That leads to thermal breakdown of the oil, and eventually sludge. There have been reports of engine replacements at 24,000 miles.

For comparison, my 1987 Nissan truck has 190,000 miles and when I look into the valve cover, it is almost pristine. No obvious sludge. Hell, my mechanic is even amazed. Of course, I changed the oil religiously every 3 months or 3,000 miles with Castrol GTX 10W-40 for almost 18 years now. Note this truck has been driven in hot California summers the entire time. I drove from the SF Bay Area to LA numerous times in 105+ degree heat. Of course, for those trips, I loaded up on 20W-50 before I left.

Anyway, I'm just trying to prevent sludge.

Posted: 9/11/2005 5:52:31 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Here's the situation: My wife and I got a good deal on a 1999 Toyota Sienna with moderate mileage (74,000). That years falls into the category of Toyotas that have the sludge problem. The car seems to run great, although when I looked into the valve cover, it was not a pretty sight. There is noticeable sludge.

Supposedly, the heads are the problem. The head design of the 3.0 V6 for that year (and a couple of other years) is such that there is a problem with high temperatures. That leads to thermal breakdown of the oil, and eventually sludge. There have been reports of engine replacements at 24,000 miles.

For comparison, my 1987 Nissan truck has 190,000 miles and when I look into the valve cover, it is almost pristine. No obvious sludge. Hell, my mechanic is even amazed. Of course, I changed the oil religiously every 3 months or 3,000 miles with Castrol GTX 10W-40 for almost 18 years now. Note this truck has been driven in hot California summers the entire time. I drove from the SF Bay Area to LA numerous times in 105+ degree heat. Of course, for those trips, I loaded up on 20W-50 before I left.

Anyway, I'm just trying to prevent sludge.

So run a 15W-40 (DELO, Ursa, Rotella, whatever) for 3000 miles to clean the sludge out and then switch to a synthetic. Make the first change short, like 5,000 miles, and then settle in for regular 10-15k mile changes. If your oil is running really, really hot, add an oil cooler to it and relocate the oil filter someplace with better airflow (taking care to use a filter with the same bypass valve pressure setting and ideally more surface area). If you have the time, pull the valve covers and the oil pan and clean off the surfaces with a good cleaner (Berryman's B-12, for instance), manually scrubbing off all of the varnish and washing (in soap and water) several times to get everything possible off. That will make the first oil change (using a 15W-40 oil) far more effective.

You may want to try using a 40 weight oil. Mobil (easiest availability) offers a 0W-40 that runs very well and a 5W-40 (this oil is sold as their "Truck and SUV" oil in places like Wally World and is their DELVAC1 5W-40 deisel/fleet synthetic in a different bottle). It might handle the heat a little better.

Posted: 9/11/2005 6:05:56 AM EDT

[#20]

I hope this turns into that oil filter thread where everyone got owned.

Posted: 9/11/2005 6:29:54 AM EDT

[#21]

My lawn mower uses Mobile 1 because that is what they recommend for it.

It has a hi-performance fuel injected engine though.

Posted: 9/11/2005 6:44:00 AM EDT

[#22]

tag for return to the states. Been thinking abotu synthetic through my 98 ranger. North Dakota, winters get down to -40 or lower.

Posted: 9/11/2005 7:54:59 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
I read that Mobile 1 switched from using an all PAO synthetic base stock to a Group III base, which is what is used in Castrol Syntec and non-synthetic oils. I understand that Amsoil and Red Line are now the two most available 100% synthetic oils (meaning, they use a PAO synthetic base plus synthetic additives).

Is this true? I know Castol advertises Syntec as 100% synthetic, but that appears not to be true.

Also, here is a link to a test of some major oil brands.
Oil Tests

The test could be biased, I don't know, but I was surprised to see Castrol GTX score low on many of the tests. I always heard it was good stuff. What's the deal?

That rumor is years old. Mobil1 is a full synthetic.

Read this --> theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002289#000023

Posted: 9/11/2005 8:11:42 AM EDT

[#24]

If anybody Wants Access To cheep Synthetic oil I will Sell it o you Shipped to your Door For little to no Profit on my part. I just have to make enough to cover my Expenses On being a dealer For Yes AMSOIL.

I am Only Trying to help out people Not make Money.

So Don't Kill Me please With the MLM Bullshit Amsoil Scamsoil Shit.
If you want it Fine if you Don't Fine.

Just Trying To help.

Superfly

Posted: 9/11/2005 8:18:02 AM EDT

[#25]

Unfortunately, with my dealer prices, Amsoil is STILL more expensive than GRoup IV synthestics I can get at Autozone.

Mobil 1 AFAIK is still a Group IV synthetic. Just get the 15,000 mile Mobil 1 (the 7500 mile is a blend, and the 5000 mile is dino).
That said, the ILSAC GF-4/API SM Dino oils are about as good as the Group III synthetics of yore.

Amsoil tends to overly hype their products and never subject them to certification tests. You have to TRUST them that it meets the required standards (Mercon/Mercon-V for Amsoil ATF, etc...)

For cold weather starting, synthetics are king.

As for oil filters, they never clog up unless your engine is shit and there's stuff running around inside. The things that wear out on filters are the bypass valve and the anti-drainback valve. The media rarely gets clogged up!!! I change my Motorcraft filter (with a silicone ADBV which lasts longer because it remains soft) once a year along with Deutscheland Castrol 0W-30 (Group IV bitch, the other Castrol in the US is Group III). The Germans know their shit when it comes to guns and engines.

Posted: 9/11/2005 8:18:59 AM EDT

[#26]

Oh yeah, if you don't want sludge, don't use 5W-20.

Ford and Honda have their heads up their asses with this crap. No one uses 5W-20 outside of the US for the same engines, just FYI.

Posted: 9/11/2005 8:20:09 AM EDT

[#27]

I have always used Mobile-1 and I think it's worth it (ran Royal Purple for a short period of time.) I had a '95 300z with 158k on it, the last few years I was changing the oil every 8-10k. They guyu I sold it to said the motor looked great... He was building a ricer out of it

I run Amsoil in my diff's and transfer case on my 4-Runner.

Mobil one is good stuff, you want a great firearms lube... Mix 1/3 synth tranny fluid w/ 2/3 Mobil-1, good stuff.

Posted: 9/11/2005 8:36:32 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Drove a peterbilt 800,000 miles with an oil change every 10,000 miles and never got an oil sludge build up, nor a single mechanical problem for that matter

11 gallons of Shell Rotella T, 20W50

Synthetics are good but as long as you keep it changed you wont need the extra protection that they claim, if you're going to neglect it then go for the synthetics

One of my most all time favorite oils. If it comes in a weight you engine can run, use it.

Nothing wrong with the synthetics, just quit looking for the "magic bullet" I run Mobil1 in my RAV4, and any good brand of dino oil in my 92 Ranger. The Ranger bought used, third owner, now has about 150,000 miles on it. The last 75,000 or so are mine.

Posted: 9/11/2005 8:41:06 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
... Once my new S&S motor broke in I went Mobil 1 synthetic. Also heard that the formula switched recently, hence the difference in the color of the caps. Was informed that the new blend will perform as well or better than the old.

... I'm of the belief that an air-cooled engine in the hot Arizona desert needs that added protection of a good synthetics - it will run cooler as well.

www.mcadvantages.com/Images/Source/JPG/Products/Engines/SS_Evo_124_Large.jpg

Oil is like religion, just like this guy says, you gotta BELIEVE, brotha!!!

I run dino, of course, I ride every day, so what do I know?

Posted: 9/11/2005 1:57:48 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Change your oil every three months or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first, and you'll do fine. The synthetic oil is a waste of money.

Not necessarily, but generally speaking this is a very good practice in lieu of using synthetic. I see motor oil lose it's properties in many cars at relatively fast intervals, and while this supports the 3 month/3,000 mile(3/3) schedule, it also shows good reason to use synthetic oil. You will save money using synthetic oil, the long/short term benefits -and accompanying savings- are well documented.

Posted: 9/11/2005 2:12:59 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Oh yeah, if you don't want sludge, don't use 5W-20.

Ford and Honda have their heads up their asses with this crap. No one uses 5W-20 outside of the US for the same engines, just FYI.

In theory 5W-20 is excellent, but the problem with conventional 5W-20 is that it's lower viscosity leads to a much more rapid evaporation. Synthetic oils have been able to bridge the gap between evaporation and low viscosity with much better results.

Posted: 9/11/2005 2:18:58 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Change your oil every three months or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first, and you'll do fine. The synthetic oil is a waste of money.

changing your oil every 3k miles is a waste of money. Its the filters that require the changing. Besides we all know that the viscosity breakdown on a pure synthetic is about 3 times the life of dino based oils right? Right? So how is that a waste of money again?

How the hell am I supposed to change the filter without draining the oil out first?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Motor oil (beating a dead horse)

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