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Posted: 7/13/2001 2:54:30 PM EST
Would like to hear some opinions from some of you gear heads on the forum about the use of synthetic type of motor oils. I bought a new car recently and it's time for it's first oil change. I plan to change the oil at about 3500 mile intervals - would the use of synthethic oil be justified or just plain useless? [>:/]
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:02:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:06:55 PM EST
I use Mobil 1 in my Mazda 929 sedan. Broke it in up to 10,000 with regular oil, then switched to Mobil 1. I tell you, the engine stays clean inside.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:07:58 PM EST
What kinda car did you get? God, I would like to buy a new one. Don't waste the money on synthetics, esp. if you are going to be using the vehicle regularly and change every 3500 miles. Just use what the factory recommends. They pay those engineers for a reason. I use synthetic in my bike and Alfa because they end up sitting a lot and synthetic doesn't degrade as much over time, but for your purposes it is a big expense with little or no benefit. Congrats on the new ride. [:)]
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:08:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By SGB: I use Mobil 1 synthetic in my vette as it is OEM. All the others get Discount Motor Oil 10w-30w.
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what he said.mmk
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:12:03 PM EST
My bro uses Mobil 1 in his RX7 turbo, but I just use Castrol GTX in the mini truck. After it was broken in, I changed the manual tranny oil to Red Line synthetic and immediately it shifted much more smoothly.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:17:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/13/2001 3:14:43 PM EST by raf]
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:21:44 PM EST
Mix It: You'll get 80% of the benefits of synthetic by substituting just one quart of your regualr oil for a synthetic. I buy both kinds by the case at Wal-Mart and the price isn't bd. Maybe I'm being bad, but running 6 k/mi between oil changes has never been a problam for me. Snowmaster
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:34:09 PM EST
Don't waste your money on synthetic oils. They are expensive and don't clean an engine the way natural oil does. As far as mixing synthetic and real I wouldn't suggest it.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:40:42 PM EST
I've been inside the guts of numerous engines. Using synthetic will show up in high mileage engines (less wear). My take is the average driver will change oil four or five times a year; what's $35 times five compared to $30-40 for a vehicle? Don't forget the filter. A good oil, synthetic or dino, will outlast most filters. I use Mobil 1 filters (not Mobile filters) or AC Delco UPG series when I can find them. Don't get sucked into the advertising hype by the likes of Fram. If you ever cut one open you'd never even look at them again. Eddie
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:44:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/13/2001 3:45:16 PM EST by Jack-B-Nymble]
DO NOT PUT SYNTHETIC OIL IN YOUR NEW CAR! Wait at least 5000 miles, better yet 7000. This allows the motor to properly break in and the rings to seat. My wife's car, bought new, now has 160,000 miles on it. I change the oil every 10,000 miles, like clockwork.:) I use Castrol Syntec in her car and my truck, (120,000 miles). Both vehicles run like the day they were new. Castrol Syntec is %100 synthetic. Many of the other syn oils has a conventional oil carrier. Both vehicles get an oil change every 10,000 miles. It is more cost effective to run synthetic oil. Less of a pain in the ass, too! But... [b]1. While your car is under warranty, change oil per the warranty guidelines, save those receipts for oil and filter for proof. For our cars the max milage between oil changes, per the warranty, was 7,500 miles. When they went out of warranty, I started changing oil every 10,000 miles. 2. Use a quality oil filter! Forget that Fram Bullshit. Make sure your oil filter has an internal relief valve. If the filter becomes clogged, it won't blow off the side of your block! Some OEM filters have this feature, NAPA carries these types of filters.[/b] For those of you who will inevitably berate me about the 10,000 mile intervals, before I went Synthetic about 10 years ago, I changed my oil every 2500 miles.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:48:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By mattja: My bro uses Mobil 1 in his RX7 turbo, but I just use Castrol GTX in the mini truck. After it was broken in, I changed the manual tranny oil to Red Line synthetic and immediately it shifted much more smoothly.
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I hope your bro is premixing 2 cycle oil into his gas if he is using synthetic in a rotary. It is a big no-no unless you premix.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:49:21 PM EST
I have done a great deal of research on this and talked to some engineers at Mobil and Valvoline. The main reason that synthetic oil is better is that it can withstand much higher temperatures and it flows more easily to tight spaces when cold. It does not have any significant advantage in terms of lubricity. It DOES keep the engine and oilpan cleaner because it does not break down into sludge under high heat. I use Mobil 1 5W30 because I have a turbocharged car, so I need to avoid having the oil cooked inside the turbo and its oil lines. Valvoline Synpower is also very good, but avoid Castrol Syntec...it's NOT real synthetic. For conventional oils, Castrol GTX and Valvoline are good, but Pennzoil and Quaker State suck because they use paraffins (wax) which makes a mess.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:55:18 PM EST
My wife drives a lot miles in a year. I couldn't keep up with the oil changes on her Ford van. It seemed it was always due a oil change. Switched to Mobile 1 and changed it at 10,000 miles. Absolutely no problems for 175,000 miles. Had pan gasket replaced at about 125,000 and mechanic said engine was as clean as new inside. Swiched to Mobile 1 in everything. Have a friend who is a drag racer. He runs Mobile 1 in his race car (69 Camaro) all season then drains it and runs it the rest of the year in his tow truck. I know some won't agree with the extended intervals on changes that I use, but it works me
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:57:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ratters: What kinda car did you get? God, I would like to buy a new one. Congrats on the new ride. [:)]
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Thanks Ratters, bought a 01 Acura MDX, It's the wife's car - but I pay the note on it [;)] the Acura manual states not to have the first oil change till 5k miles, unless you live in "severe conditions" then you change at 3500 which the car is approaching now. For some reason, and I don't know why, the SF Bay Area qualifies for "severe conditions" per one of the local dealers [>:/]
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 3:58:27 PM EST
Whoa! Quite a diversity of opinion on this topic. I agree with David M. about the value of synthetic. I change just once per year using Castrol Synthetic. However, David, I disagree about the "break-in period". Modern engines do not require a break-in period. I am not aware of any current manufacturer that recommends a break-in period for any new car. You can put synthetic into new engines. Lastly, Consumer Reports did an extensive test on New York Taxicabs. They found that changing the oil every 6,000 miles, instead of every 3,000 miles, made absolutely NO DIFFERENCE in engine wear. This 3,000 mile crap is propaganda by quickie oil change places and auto service establishments in order to make a few extra bucks. P.S. Most engine wear occurs on start-up when most of the engine oil is in the oil pan. To avoid this you must invest in an engine pre-oiler.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 4:05:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 4:12:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By ThunderStick: However, David, I disagree about the "break-in period". Modern engines do not require a break-in period. I am not aware of any current manufacturer that recommends a break-in period for any new car. You can put synthetic into new engines.
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[i]During the first 1000 miles follow these recomendations.... Do not run engine over 4000 RPM Do not drive over the following speed limits... Do not accelerate hard in top gear Avoid quick starts and full acceleration. Avoid hard stops as much as possible.[/i] [b]Excerpt from page 2-15 1994 Nissan P/U owners manual.[/b] Hey, what can I say, my gun budget is bigger than my truck budget! For some time now, GM has required no break-in period. The same may now be true of most other manufacturers. I just don't plan on going truck shopping, don't even want to look at them for the next 5 years, or longer if my rice burner holds up. So, I am really not familiar with new vehicle manufacturer requirements.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 4:15:37 PM EST
First off, what others said about letting your engine break in for at least 5-10K miles. Second, synthetic is NOT a waste of money nor is it only for "high performance" engines. It has nothing to do with your warranty, that only pertains to the correct viscosity. It has nothing to do with how it "cleans" the engine. It does not last any longer than regular oil. The difference is in the amount of compression the oil can sustain before it is completely evacuated between two surfaces. For example: if you have two plates and put a thin layer of oil between them with a continuity tester attached to each plate. 'Regular' oil takes approximately 24 pounds per sq. inch of pressure to make contact. Synthetic requires over 140 psi! That is the actual difference. Use synthetic oil and change is [b]strictly[/b] between 3-4 K miles and NO more
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 4:19:45 PM EST
only use Mobil 1 synthetic(0w30) in my cobra. talked in person to Ford's Svt engineers & they said it's the best oil I could use for the modular engine
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 4:24:09 PM EST
I used Valvoline synthetic in my 'Vette suppied at cost (cheap) by a connection I had through Skippy Land Racing School. (He also worked for Lotus on the side but I was never able to a good deal on an LT-5 motor despite asking.) The engine temp. really did stay quite a bit cooler according to the gauges. But if you put it in a car that leaks a little (as I did with my VW) it may leak a little more.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 4:32:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By SNIPERm88: First off, what others said about letting your engine break in for at least 5-10K miles. Second, synthetic is NOT a waste of money nor is it only for "high performance" engines. It has nothing to do with your warranty, that only pertains to the correct viscosity. It has nothing to do with how it "cleans" the engine. It does not last any longer than regular oil. The difference is in the amount of compression the oil can sustain before it is completely evacuated between two surfaces. For example: if you have two plates and put a thin layer of oil between them with a continuity tester attached to each plate. 'Regular' oil takes approximately 24 pounds per sq. inch of pressure to make contact. Synthetic requires over 140 psi! That is the actual difference. Use synthetic oil and change is [b]strictly[/b] between 3-4 K miles and NO more
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Now there I'd have to partially disagree. I work with a lot of expensive industrial equipment. Take for instance, a heavy industrial Air Compressor. You can run that equipment 4 or 5 times longer between oil changes using a synthetic oil compared to using conventional air compressor oil. Also, the synthetic oil that I drop into the pan at 10,000 miles looks better than the conventional oils at 2500-3000 miles. I only brought up warranties with respect to maintaining oil change intervals, to preserve the warranty protection.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 4:58:35 PM EST
I run Amsoil in my Ford PSD, and the wifes Vette. My kid put it in his 2k ranger and picked up 5mpg immediatly.The powerstroke picked up about 1 - 2 mpg, and the tranny temp. went down about 30 degrees after installing the Amsoil.I dont sell it, but I use it in everything, sleds,tractor,whatever. It is much cleaner at drain time than Dino oil, and there is no sludging or varnish. I run it 18 to 20 k between changes, but change the filter every 5 or 6k in the powerstroke.When I took my old 6.9 Ford diesel apart at 235k, all the inside engine surfaces were clean, like new.I only took it apart out of pity, and the fact that I was going to turbo it,so freshining up was appropriate, it reall did not need it though.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 5:01:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 5:37:25 PM EST
I put Mobil 1 in my new car, because that is factory spec. Did first change at 5k miles, because that is what the dealers mech recommends. I use cheapo oil in my jungle truck and it is fine. I change that every 3k. I used Castrol GTX in my old car and that seemed to do very well.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 6:09:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By David M: Now there I'd have to partially disagree. I work with a lot of expensive industrial equipment. Take for instance, a heavy industrial Air Compressor. You can run that equipment 4 or 5 times longer between oil changes using a synthetic oil compared to using conventional air compressor oil. Also, the synthetic oil that I drop into the pan at 10,000 miles looks better than the conventional oils at 2500-3000 miles. I only brought up warranties with respect to maintaining oil change intervals, to preserve the warranty protection.
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If that is the only part we disagree on, then I can absolutely agree to disagree. I will not use synthetic any longer than I use conventional for one reason. Buildup of contaminants in the oil. Since I do not regularly go on long trips and get my oil up to the highest operating temperature it will not burn them all off. Even if I did make long trips, I would not go over 4k on an oil change. Glad to hear you have good experience with synthetic oil.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 6:40:58 PM EST
Do not waste your money on the Synthetic oil. Just use a good grade of oil. I Have used a few different high grade oils. I have had the best luck with Castrol GTX for many years now. I put a lot of miles on my car or truck in a year. Have owned many cars and trucks through my life. I change the oil every 2500-3500 miles. I always put a new Fram filter on every oil change. Only I change the oil on my vehicles. No one else. Every one of my cars or trucks that I have owned has gone over 200,000 miles with no major repairs such as engine or transmission. No car or truck that I have owned ever started to use oil. Never lost any significant compression on any of my engines. Been very lucky through the years. I have had 4 cars go over 300,000 miles (Castrol GTX). The inner structure on all my vehicles always ends up rusting through. That is the only reason I end up buying a different car. I usually keep up with minor surface rust until I start getting holes rusting through the body panels. Then the wife tells me to get rid of it, she is not going to ride in it anymore because she hates seeing any rust or holes on a vehicle. My current car has 188,000 miles on it and you can not even hear the engine running at idle. Many of my cars and trucks have gone well over 200,000 miles and you could not hear the engine running at idle. These vehicles have all used Castrol GTX. One car that I bought I dedicated to only Mobil Synthetic. It went 233,000 miles. Still ran good (also a very quiet engine) but I had to get rid of it because it was rusting through. Of course I would have to try it in a couple more cars to give you a better comparison to the Castrol. Not going too. Castrol has had to good of a track record for me.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 3:13:31 PM EST
A few more points: 1. Change your oil at the recommended service interval regardless of synthetic use. You need to remove acids, water, and other crap that the oil has held in suspension. Recommended intervals today range from 3500 (severe service) to 10,000 or more. Look in your manual. 2. The Consumer Reports study was flawed. They based their conclusions on wear measurements of a few engine parts, nothing else. What they SHOULD have done is had the used oil samples analyzed by an independent lab to determine the quantity of wear metals, TBN, oxidation, etc. That would have been far more useful. 3. Synthetic oil is NOT a waste of money if you have a car that runs a turbo at 180,000 RPM and 1500 degree exhaust temps. Try running conventional oil under those conditions and then see how long your turbo lasts...
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 3:50:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By SNIPERm88:
Originally Posted By David M: Now there I'd have to partially disagree. I work with a lot of expensive industrial equipment. Take for instance, a heavy industrial Air Compressor. You can run that equipment 4 or 5 times longer between oil changes using a synthetic oil compared to using conventional air compressor oil. Also, the synthetic oil that I drop into the pan at 10,000 miles looks better than the conventional oils at 2500-3000 miles. I only brought up warranties with respect to maintaining oil change intervals, to preserve the warranty protection.
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If that is the only part we disagree on, then I can absolutely agree to disagree. I will not use synthetic any longer than I use conventional for one reason. Buildup of contaminants in the oil. Since I do not regularly go on long trips and get my oil up to the highest operating temperature it will not burn them all off. Even if I did make long trips, I would not go over 4k on an oil change. Glad to hear you have good experience with synthetic oil.
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Uh, oh. I would agree with the above. Nothing but short trips, that is very hard service. About 80% of my driving is hwy. I do almost 50 mi round trip to work, stop and go traffic very seldom. About the industrial equipment. We are talking equipment that runs weeks at a time, so they see a full benefit, using the synthetic. In such cases, maintenance costs and down time are positively reduced.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 3:57:31 PM EST
We put multiple 100k miles on autos and SUV's. We put M1 10W30 in at 500, 1.5k and every 3k thereafter. Use M1, AC or Wix filters. Never have mechanical problems. Also put in 160 deg thermostats and K&N air filters in everything. We have a fleet. I've heard all the rhetoric for and against synthetics, but I do what works for me. Arock out.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 4:04:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By raf: Don't forget to periodically change ALL the other fluids, too, (even the brake fluid!).
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I'll take my chances.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 5:03:48 PM EST
OK, here's how the local shade tree mechanic breaks it down: Your car is just a tool to get you from A to B, you don't want to spend more than you have to.---- Use plain ol' Valvoline Your car is well broken in, but you still like it alot, you pay extra for high octane gas ect., maybe even named it.---- Castrol GTX Your car is new and or high performance. It's extremely high maintenance and you are possibly as well.---- Mobil 1 synthetic or Kendall synthetic You'd fuck your car if you could. Nothing else matters.---- Redline synthetic
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 5:56:11 PM EST
I'm a believer in synthetic oils... I started using 15W-50 Castrol Syntec in my Drag Car engine a couple years ago. I'm running a 513cu.in. Roller cammed Big Block Chevy with 14.5-1 compression and a 400 HP Nitrous System... This combination makes around 1100 horsepower... I tear down the motor every winter to inspect bearings, etc... The bearings look so nice at the end of the season, I [could] re-use them for the next... When I ran conventional oils, the bearings showed alot more wear... I also switched to Synthetic gear oil in the rear end... With conventional gear oil, the rear housing (Ford 9") would get so hot after a run, you couldn't touch it... After switching to synthetic, It would only get warm... After making the change to Synthetic oils in the motor & rear, my 1/4 mile times went from 8.50's at 156 MPH to 8.40's at 159 MPH... Does synthetic work better than conventional ??? You be the judge... It certainly made a believer out of me... As far as break-in periods go... I think it's a load of crap... Within the first 30 minutes of my motor's fresh rebuild, It's running at 8000 RPM's with a healthy shot of Nitrous Oxide, and going 160 MPH Only thing I notice after the rings finally seat, is more cylinder PSI, and it gets a little quicker... My saying is: " Drive it like you stole it " If your planning on keeping your new car a long time, I'd recommend the synthetic oil... Otherwise, the cheap stuff will be fine...You'll end up trading the car before it wears out anyway... Just my $.02
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 6:29:28 PM EST
dbrowne1, yes I agree with everything you say. And yes, synthetics are definitely made for anything with a turbo. Synthetics are great for all extreme duty situations. If you are going to drive that hi performance engine hard like its made for, or if you have race engines as dragracerart stated, towing a lot of weight very often, then synthetics really do make a difference. I have a couple buddy's that push some major horsepower out of smallblocks on the drag strip. They definitely can see a difference using synthetics when they tear down the engines as dragracerart mentioned. They also believe the break in period thing is a bunch of crap. And then there is my brother. He puts the cheapest oil he can find in his vehicles and changes it anywhere from 5000-10,000 miles. He has had some cars that have got very high miles on them also. My vehicles get a 50/50 mix of highway and very hard city driving (lots of starting and stopping).
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 6:33:23 PM EST
I have a 87 Ford PU that I used Mobil 1 in. I would change it every 10,000 miles but change the filter every 3,000. I had to take the intake manifold off at 136,000 miles to replace a gasket, and the lifter valley looked like new. The truck now has over 200,000 miles on it and it still does not burn oil or smokes when I start it. St. Louis Bob
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 6:48:19 PM EST
I use Amsoil in my V-8 Grand Cherokee. I'm not so certain a synthetic motor oil is all that superior to regular motor oil but synthetic gear lubes are definitely better than regular types.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 6:55:36 PM EST
Ok im coming up on the first time ill need to change the oil in my pickup (95' Nissan 4x4) its got 83k miles on it (I bought it with 80k) which oil filter? and how often should i change my other fluids (tranny radiator rearend transfer case brakes) it seems to me all most people worry about is the engine oil and say fuck it to the rest of the car. personally id like to keep my truck for a while and worry bout that stuff also how long can i expect my engine to last its a V6.? and last is it a POS ive had people tell me nissan pickups are but i havent had a prob yet everyone around here owns toyota but i cant afford a newer one and people ask outragous prices for them i recently saw a toy PU 84' 4x4 with 200000 mi go for $4000 i cant see it i paid near 10k for my pickup with 80k on it
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 7:41:57 PM EST
I use Mobil 1 and change it every 10K miles. Did that with my last car and am doing it again with my truck!!! I can't keep-up with the oil changes every 3K miles, because I'd be doing it every month and a half. So I pay more and don't have to worry. BISHOP
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 11:46:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By xsquid: Would like to hear some opinions from some of you gear heads on the forum about the use of synthetic type of motor oils. I bought a new car recently and it's time for it's first oil change. I plan to change the oil at about 3500 mile intervals - would the use of synthethic oil be justified or just plain useless? [>:/]
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Synthethic is the best, but I perfer you use good ole oil, because when there is no gas for autos, I can use everyones crankcase oil to fuel my machine, and roll into the sunset!
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