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Posted: 10/3/2014 1:17:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2014 1:17:47 AM EST by M4A1]
Why are most gun rights groups being silent about Amnesty?
Do you think illegal immigrants will eventually invoke another assault weapons ban?

"As all credible polling shows illegal immigration amnesty will result in millions of new Democrat voters, and as that party is overwhelmingly anti-gun, and as Gun Owners of America is the only Second Amendment advocacy group recognizing and warning gun owners this will result in more gun laws and a shift in the Supreme Court, this organization acknowledges the issue as being inextricably tied in with the ongoing and future threats against gun rights."

http://www.examiner.com/article/most-gun-rights-activists-groups-remain-silent-on-amnesty-threat-to-gun-rights
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:18:41 AM EST
For the same reason that most gun groups are silent on the issues facing the Florida manatee.

Special interest groups are special interest.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:21:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2014 1:25:34 AM EST by M4A1]
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Originally Posted By limaxray:
For the same reason that most gun groups are silent on the issues facing the Florida manatee.

Special interest groups are special interest.
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The difference is that Amnesty will actually affect gun rights. Unlike the Florida Manatee.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:25:59 AM EST
I would prefer that gun rights groups keep an eye on gun issues, that is what we pay them for.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:26:31 AM EST
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Originally Posted By M4A1:



Florida manatee and guns? What's that about?
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Originally Posted By M4A1:
Originally Posted By limaxray:
For the same reason that most gun groups are silent on the issues facing the Florida manatee.

Special interest groups are special interest.



Florida manatee and guns? What's that about?


That's the point.

Not a directly related issue. Gun rights groups talk about gun issues only. Not things that can have guns as a second-order or third-order effect. In this case, more like third-order.

If memory serves, according to the linked article, this is the order of events: Illegals get amnesty and can obtain citizenship. Newly-naturalized citizens vote in Democrat politicians en-masse. Dem politicians vote for gun control.

NRA et al. are primarily concerned with that last point, and the next-to-last. It's not in their business to get into other issues. Especially when the follow-on effects are hypothetical.
Plus, there's no percentage for them getting involved, because it just gives the Left and the media ammunition to say "look how racist these gun nuts are! Their gun-nut lobbyists are so racist, they're even working against Hispanic immigrants, which has nothing to do with guns!"
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:29:43 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Stumps:
I would prefer that gun rights groups keep an eye on gun issues, that is what we pay them for.
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Amnesty IS a gun issue. It's also a freedom issue in general.

That said, I think GOA is the only gun organization so far that has spoken out against amnesty.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:36:33 AM EST
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Originally Posted By RifleCal30m1n00b:


That's the point.

Not a directly related issue. Gun rights groups talk about gun issues only. Not things that can have guns as a second-order or third-order effect. In this case, more like third-order.

If memory serves, according to the linked article, this is the order of events: Illegals get amnesty and can obtain citizenship. Newly-naturalized citizens vote in Democrat politicians en-masse. Dem politicians vote for gun control.

NRA et al. are primarily concerned with that last point, and the next-to-last. It's not in their business to get into other issues. Especially when the follow-on effects are hypothetical.
Plus, there's no percentage for them getting involved, because it just gives the Left and the media ammunition to say "look how racist these gun nuts are! Their gun-nut lobbyists are so racist, they're even working against Hispanic immigrants, which has nothing to do with guns!"
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Originally Posted By RifleCal30m1n00b:
Originally Posted By M4A1:
Originally Posted By limaxray:
For the same reason that most gun groups are silent on the issues facing the Florida manatee.

Special interest groups are special interest.



Florida manatee and guns? What's that about?


That's the point.

Not a directly related issue. Gun rights groups talk about gun issues only. Not things that can have guns as a second-order or third-order effect. In this case, more like third-order.

If memory serves, according to the linked article, this is the order of events: Illegals get amnesty and can obtain citizenship. Newly-naturalized citizens vote in Democrat politicians en-masse. Dem politicians vote for gun control.

NRA et al. are primarily concerned with that last point, and the next-to-last. It's not in their business to get into other issues. Especially when the follow-on effects are hypothetical.
Plus, there's no percentage for them getting involved, because it just gives the Left and the media ammunition to say "look how racist these gun nuts are! Their gun-nut lobbyists are so racist, they're even working against Hispanic immigrants, which has nothing to do with guns!"


I see your point about the media.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:39:49 AM EST
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Originally Posted By DmL5:

Amnesty IS a gun issue. It's also a freedom issue in general.

That said, I think GOA is the only gun organization so far that has spoken out against amnesty.
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Originally Posted By DmL5:
Originally Posted By Stumps:
I would prefer that gun rights groups keep an eye on gun issues, that is what we pay them for.

Amnesty IS a gun issue. It's also a freedom issue in general.

That said, I think GOA is the only gun organization so far that has spoken out against amnesty.

And this only serves to alienate a group of people who may or may not already be against. Many may not.

Most illegals, if and when granted access to voting, will vote as single issue voters. For the Democrats. Granted, that may often be a by-proxy vote for gun control, but often not inherently by intent on the specific issue of guns.

Single issue organizations (NRA, etc) need to shut the fuck up about issues not related directly to guns, as most of them have done. As an earlier response mentioned, second and third order causation doesn't justify an openly-admitted stance. While most of us here don't agree with being flooded with illegals, for fucks sake's don't alienate them on the issue of guns, in the (likely) event we are stuck with their presence and ability to vote. These organizations have nothing to gain, and at least a *possible* future opinion base to piss off by getting involved.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 1:56:58 AM EST
The only thing to be accomplished by a loud 2A stance against immigration reform will be to tar 2A proponents as racist xenophobes.

Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:11:35 AM EST
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Originally Posted By LowBeta:
The only thing to be accomplished by a loud 2A stance against immigration reform will be to tar 2A proponents as racist xenophobes.

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Its not immigration reform, its amnesty even if they do not call it that, just like how they call gun control "gun reform" for a few months until it fell apart.

They call us "racist xenophobes" already, the leftist calls everyone who stands against them "racist" or "xenophobes" which discredits them not us.

Plus we have seen what happens when they are given the right to vote, look at California after the 1986 amnesty, within 10 years a solid red state was turn blue when 2.3 of the 3.4 million illegals were allowed to stay when Reagan thought it would be a good idea to "compromise" with the dems...28 years later and the border security resumes are just like the cuts in service the dems promise for the tax hikes...No where to be found...

You want to Russian roulette with America`s future, our liberties, and our way of life? Please go first...

We do not gain a damn thing, we lose a great deal....Cap immigration at pre 1965 limits, secure the border and end birth right citizenship for those born to illegal parents....Libs give us any shit we send them to the 3rd world with their pets...
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:22:30 AM EST
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Originally Posted By RandyMagnum:



Its not immigration reform, its amnesty even if they do not call it that, just like how they call gun control "gun reform" for a few months until it fell apart.

They call us "racist xenophobes" already, the leftist calls everyone who stands against them "racist" or "xenophobes" which discredits them not us.

Plus we have seen what happens when they are given the right to vote, look at California after the 1986 amnesty, within 10 years a solid red state was turn blue when 2.3 of the 3.4 million illegals were allowed to stay when Reagan thought it would be a good idea to "compromise" with the dems...28 years later and the border security resumes are just like the cuts in service the dems promise for the tax hikes...No where to be found...

You want to Russian roulette with America`s future, our liberties, and our way of life? Please go first...

We do not gain a damn thing, we lose a great deal....Cap immigration at pre 1965 limits, secure the border and end birth right citizenship for those born to illegal parents....Libs give us any shit we send them to the 3rd world with their pets...
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Originally Posted By RandyMagnum:
Originally Posted By LowBeta:
The only thing to be accomplished by a loud 2A stance against immigration reform will be to tar 2A proponents as racist xenophobes.




Its not immigration reform, its amnesty even if they do not call it that, just like how they call gun control "gun reform" for a few months until it fell apart.

They call us "racist xenophobes" already, the leftist calls everyone who stands against them "racist" or "xenophobes" which discredits them not us.

Plus we have seen what happens when they are given the right to vote, look at California after the 1986 amnesty, within 10 years a solid red state was turn blue when 2.3 of the 3.4 million illegals were allowed to stay when Reagan thought it would be a good idea to "compromise" with the dems...28 years later and the border security resumes are just like the cuts in service the dems promise for the tax hikes...No where to be found...

You want to Russian roulette with America`s future, our liberties, and our way of life? Please go first...

We do not gain a damn thing, we lose a great deal....Cap immigration at pre 1965 limits, secure the border and end birth right citizenship for those born to illegal parents....Libs give us any shit we send them to the 3rd world with their pets...


Agree with most everything you wrote. None of it is within the charter of the NRA or other 2A groups.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 2:48:08 AM EST
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Originally Posted By LowBeta:
The only thing to be accomplished by a loud 2A stance against immigration reform will be to tar 2A proponents as racist xenophobes.

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This, the Gun rights organizations need to focus on one thing the second amendment and
nothing else.

Link Posted: 10/3/2014 3:12:25 AM EST
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Originally Posted By raider00:
This, the Gun rights organizations need to focus on one thing the second amendment and nothing else.


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Originally Posted By raider00:
Originally Posted By LowBeta:
The only thing to be accomplished by a loud 2A stance against immigration reform will be to tar 2A proponents as racist xenophobes.

This, the Gun rights organizations need to focus on one thing the second amendment and nothing else.




No shit. The only amnesty they need to be talking about is the NFA.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 3:43:22 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Stumps:
I would prefer that gun rights groups keep an eye on gun issues, that is what we pay them for.
View Quote


This
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 4:09:34 AM EST
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Originally Posted By M4A1:



The difference is that Amnesty will actually affect gun rights. Unlike the Florida Manatee.
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Originally Posted By M4A1:
Originally Posted By limaxray:
For the same reason that most gun groups are silent on the issues facing the Florida manatee.

Special interest groups are special interest.



The difference is that Amnesty will actually affect gun rights. Unlike the Florida Manatee.
There should be no effect on the 2nd. Any attacks will just be more of the same liberal ploy. They are on a continuous and determined track to chisel away any of the last vestiges of freedom.
Link Posted: 10/3/2014 5:14:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2014 5:14:34 AM EST by Gator]
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Originally Posted By M4A1:



The difference is that Amnesty will actually affect gun rights. Unlike the Florida Manatee.
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Originally Posted By M4A1:
Originally Posted By limaxray:
For the same reason that most gun groups are silent on the issues facing the Florida manatee.

Special interest groups are special interest.



The difference is that Amnesty will actually affect gun rights. Unlike the Florida Manatee.


Every special interest they stick their nose into can hack away up to half of their constituents. It's a good idea to stick out of other special interests if they want a base of any relevant size.
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