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Posted: 9/3/2001 5:03:15 PM EDT
So I was at the range today and a couple of guys to my left had an AR-15 and were shooting it all over the place. They had a rouned jam on feeding and were staring at it like it had suddenly turned into an ET of some sort. I walked over and took a look at it. It wasn't really jammed but just hadn't fed into the chamber all the way. One of them was saying,"Oh man, what'da we do?". It was almost as funny as it was pathetic. I pointed to the side and said,"Well you could use your forward assist. That's what it's there for." At first they looked at me like I was another ET or something and then one asked me to show them. I incrementally pushed the round into the chamber and then one of them shot it. They were then all goofy and like, "Wow, so that's what that little doo-hicky is for." So maybe these are the guys that liberals are worried about. I sure as hell would have a hard time defending their gun ownership. Scary huh. Anybody else ever run into an idiot at the range???
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 5:11:31 PM EDT
I saw a guy almost shoot his foot with a Beretta 92. He pulled the trigger and tried to catch the hammer with his thumb, but missed. The friggin' MORON wanted to be fancy or didn't know the thing has a decocking mechanism. The bullet hit the dirt next to his foot and sprayed all over creating a crater. He left in a hurry after that incident. That's my latest poor gun handling story.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 5:12:32 PM EDT
Aw come on, they probably just bought it straight from the store so they could have a cool looking gun and didn't know how to use it. But kudos for making them look stupid. [):)] NSF
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 5:13:01 PM EDT
I went to the "compamny" range. 25 m 12 lane range. I was there along with a guy who is a firearms instructor. At the mouth of the range posted are the 4 basic firearms rules, some range rules, ear and eye protection required, shoot only from designated areas, pretty straight forward. The 2 rules that are highlited, call for a cease fire if 1) YOU ARE GOING DOWN RANGE 2) YOU SEE AN UNSAFE ACT. I was on the 2nd lane from the left, I'm left handed so my view to the right was limited. The other guy was in lane 10 or 11. I was practicing headshots at 25m, so slow deliberate firing. I was concentrating on the task. So I shoot 2 mags reload, the other guy is doing timed double taps with a timer. I return to the line, everything looks good. I aim take a second or 2 and fire, I fire a 2nd round 2-3 seconds after that. Off to my right I see motion. I holster and see the other guy at his target marking holes. When He comes back to the line I ask him why he didn't call for a cease fire, "I thought you saw me". If I saw him would I have shot?? Why didn't he say something after the 1st round being fired?
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 5:15:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 5:29:55 PM EDT
I admit that it is scary when you have an idiot near you at the range but THAT is the person our 2nd Amendment is designed to protect. I am so grateful that we don't have to prove our competency in order to purchase the weapon of our choice. There are many people out there who didn't have a father who taught them proper gun safety and they only learn through trial and error when they are old enough to get out of the house and purchase their own firearms. I am very glad you chose to help them even though you no doubt felt a bit of contempt over their lack of knowledge. Just maybe they will become proficient at some point and the future and if we are lucky, they will have enjoyed their experiences enough to make sure that their vote is for pro gun candidates next election.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 5:36:14 PM EDT
Dagger, You make a few good points. I guess the part that bugged me more than anything was that by the time that I could get an AR-15 I had studied them so much. I had read or skimmed through just about everything that I could get my hands on. I was a firm believer in "The Black Rifle", known as the bible for the AR. My daddy never showed me how to use a gun, my uncle did but that was a very long time ago. I'm an engineer so I just tend to research stuff to the nth degree. This was kind of like seeing some dude in a new corvette that doesn't know about the overdrive. You just don't feel like they are worthy sometimes. I'll try to keep your points in mind though.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 5:47:36 PM EDT
I guess these guys are the ones to whom the [b]WARNING!!!! READ OWNER'S MANUAL BEFORE USING THIS FIREARM[/b] commands are directed. I often wondered about that.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 6:17:28 PM EDT
I agree with [b]Daggar[/b]. It's nice to make jokes and poke some fun at some of the things we come across out in the real world. As long as it's done at an appropriate time and place, such as this board. But out there I hope we all bite our tongue and grin while providing constructive criticism and help. It's not in our best interest to embarrass someone to the point of no return,[/i] to the range and/or sport[i]. Try to envision the hapless newbie as a seasoned veteran a couple of years from now helping another poor soul find his way. I like to think all of us who are knowledgeable as ambassadors to this sport.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 6:27:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 7:14:29 PM EDT
When I wasat the range a few years ago, a local LEO shows up and asks if he can shoot too. No problem, lots of space and targets. He pulls a 9mm Sig 226 out of the case and starts shooting. After awhile he starts complaining that it isn't accurate. I was surprised because all the ones I had shot to that point were very accurate. He lets me tried and I managed a 3+/- inch group at 25 yds for the mag. I hand it back and said there was nothing wrong with the pistol. He said he bought as a backup from another officer and that it had been carried some but not shot much. I field strip the pistol look down the barrel and the marks on the frame and agreed it hadn't been shot much at all. As I reassemble it, he says "Can you show me how to do that?" I did and suggested he read the owners manual a bit. SRM
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 7:59:38 PM EDT
The opening message on this thread really irked me. I am not new to guns, and consider myself very proficient with most types of firearms. This past summer I took possession of an AR15. The first chance I had to use it was at the Houston Shoot the weekend before last. I've read the manual cover to cover, TWICE, and still had some questions at the shoot. There were some kind people there who helped me with some very dumb questions without laughing in my face... [b]appreciate that guys![/b] As long as they didn't put anyone in danger (not mentioned in the post) then maybe we should cut them some slack?
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 8:12:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2001 8:14:20 PM EDT by igotdoo]
I dont think they are morons. I had the benefit of my Dad teaching me much about saftey, and proper use, but not everyone gets that chance. And not everyone is as disciplined about researching everything about what they get into (unfortunately). No doubt, it makes me a little on edge when some obvious newbies set up beside me at the range... but if they are respectful, and don't do anything unsafe, then I am glad they are learning a sport that I love so very much. Often, they are eager to strike up a conversation, and I usually invite them to shoot my weapons, and offer advice when I can see they need some. With any hope, they will gain experience, listen, and learn, and become a valuable asset to our community. We all start somewhere.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 8:28:36 PM EDT
. I've read the manual cover to cover, TWICE, and still had some questions at the shoot. There were some kind people there who helped me with some very dumb questions without laughing in my face... appreciate that guys!
View Quote
The only stupid questions are the ones not asked.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 8:29:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 8:44:37 PM EDT
I am a firm believer that Darwinian principals ultimately will prevail. However, in the prescence of such an example, I normally will; Try to offer to help or.....not, and Bug Out! I would hate to upset the balance of nature. Good Luck.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 8:59:19 PM EDT
My a-hole brother in law went to the range with me about ten years ago,,he just bought a Glock,,well I told him that I would show him how to handle it. Being the ass that he is he declinded telling me he knows how. Well he could not even chamber a round.(his only other pistol was a 38) so I chamber the round etc. give it to him,,and offer to instruct once more again tha ass says he know it all,,,damm he raises his the weapon,and sure as shit he has his thumb nearly straight up,,,I'm thinking oh thats going to hurt,,bang he winces,,blood flows,,I ask him if he want to learn how to fire it correctly,,he just handed it to me and says go ahead you can shoot it... he never shot it again as far as I know
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 9:03:51 PM EDT
i almost shot some moron at the range he started walking down range when i was shooting all that needed to happen was me not paying attention and BLAM he would have probly been hit moron was right next to where i was gonna shoot then i saw him and screamed at him to get the F*ck back behind the line!
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 9:19:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By retrodog: I sure as hell would have a hard time defending their gun ownership.
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Then you are no better than the worst gun grabber.
Link Posted: 9/3/2001 11:37:49 PM EDT
What in the hell is wrong with you people? Is civilian bashing all you do on this forum? I am sure that these individuals work hard all day long to provide for their families and need all of the support they can get to go home safely to their loved ones at night.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 2:56:01 AM EDT
You want to see stuped and scary, go to a Houston black rifel meat.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 3:55:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Falcon2: You want to see stuped and scary, go to a Houston black rifel meat.
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Is that Grade A or Spam? [:D] Rick
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 5:30:31 AM EDT
Sorry that I didn't describe them a litte better. They kind of reminded me of Bevis and Butthead, not that there's anything wrong with that. They were shooting at the dirt occasionally and then saying things about how cool it blowed up stuff. I guess you just had to be there. It was much worse than I want to take the time to describe. Sorry some of you want to take the time to defend characters in a situation that you didn't witness. It's not fair to you but I do appreciate your good faith in humans. I just hope that they don't live next door to me. About a year ago, I was shooting down there and a couple of nice guys showed up with a Ruger P-89. They were trying to figure out how it worked and in a heavy discussion about the differnet little levers and such. I stepped over to show them what everything did. They were very attentive and thankful for the help. After they finished shooting I showed them how to field strip it. These guys said that they never owned a gun before and so didn't know too much about them. I suggested that they enroll into a course. They didn't even know that there were such courses available but got pretty excited about the idea. One of them could shoot very well after some suggestions about not anticipating the recoil. I enjoyed helping these guys out cause they were very focused and you could tell they wanted to be responsible for what they were doing. This is what made yesterday so difficult. I for one always make it a point to help out anyone at the range that needs some assistance. It's just the way things should be.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 6:22:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 6:30:04 AM EDT
Actually, I doubt half the guys who own ARs know what a foward assist even is. Most will probably never need it. At least if the rifle is new. As for the idiot brother in law, that's just plain stupid. Obviously he wasn't watching when his brother in law chambered it or he wouldn't have put his finger straight up. As for catching the hammer with your thumb, just point down range if you try it. Anybody dumb enough to walk onto a hot range deserves what they get. At least they won't be in the genepool anymore. Even if you don't understand the foward assist, you should still know to release the magazine, pull the charging handle back to extract the round, make sure the bolt locks open, then reinsert the magazine and release the bolt catch. I rented an .45 AR Carbine at a range before I got into ARs. In fact that is why I liked 'em. It was old and dirty, so when I pulled the charging handle backit failed to fully chamber. I had to repeat my procedure a few times. But, when I buy a gun I take it home and practice dry firing. I like to know what everything does before I go to the range. But, alot of people myself included will go to the gunshop without a specific gun in mind. Everybody needs to remember that the Gun Grabbers kept Eddie Eagle out of the schools, because "we shouldn't be teaching kids to use guns." Well, this is what we get. But, if you have a realistic toy gun as a kid you will learn some of the basic functions. But, now they are all banned or adult only. I remember in the late 80's you could still get Toy Guns that worked exactly like the real thing and didn't have those damned orange caps. I used to use airsoft guns to play war and shoot at friends. Heck, it just stung a little, that's all. I went to Wal-Mart a few months ago and now you have to be 18 to buy those airsoft guns. You know the 6mm Plastic BB Guns. As long as children are kept from learning, they will be incompetent to safely handle a gun as an adult. I heard some idiot woman out in RPK, saying she backed Disneyland's removal of toy guns, etc. because she doesn't let her kids play with toy guns or even make a finger like a gun. When kids no longer see guns, we will no longer have a future generation to support the second amendment. Teach kids to shoot safely and you will have safe adults.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 6:37:02 AM EDT
I have worked as a volunteer RO for a while now, and have noticed that the "morons" w/new guns who get ignored/ laughed at don't tend to visit the range more than once. However, the ones you walk up to, talk to and give a little advice to tend to come back. Do your part for the sport and educate, is my opinion.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 6:40:02 AM EDT
Saw a guy fire a couple of shots at his indoor target and then relax, holding the weapon up by his shoulder pointing at the ceiling. The barrel was about 5 inches from his ear when he fired the remaining round in the gun into the ceiling tiles and then surprised, dropped the gun on the floor. All I could do was raise my eyebrows and wonder what his hearing would be like without required ear protection.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 6:50:40 AM EDT
DA/SA is kinda strange the first time you use it. It's like the trigger doesn't come back foward. But, if you pull the trigger it will still fire. Obviously the range operater didn't explain or he just forgot that "if it won't fire, put it down aimed downrange and come get him." At least that is what every range I've been to told me. But, we could take some measures. In Florida every time I buy a gun I get a pamphlet about keeping handguns away from kids hands. THat's even though I'm buying a rifle and have no children. But, we should give a copy of the 10 commandments of Gun Safety to every gun purchaser. Additionally, when possible a copy of the manual should be provided with the gun. Though, most guns don't come with a manual when you buy it at the gunshop. A better solution would be to have a voluntary training program. If a shooter takes the class, passes a background check, then shows competency he would be exempt from waiting periods, background checks, etc. when purchasing auto. pistols, revolvers or whatever type he qualified on. Perhaps a discount would be better. The BATF could offer a discount on the high gun taxes. 10% Excise Tax, 11% Tax to Support Conservation, 6% Sales Tax, etc. It comes out to 29.426% or more. Remember 1/3 of the cost of a gun is government taxes.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 7:06:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 7:46:07 AM EDT
Didn't happen at the range, but concerned me nonetheless. I just purchased a Ruger blackpowder pistol, and my buddy (ex-army) was looking at in, then pointed the weapon at his face to look down the barrel! I let him know that I did not believe that it was a good thing, and he explained that it was not a big deal, since he did know that it was not loaded. I was always taught that every weapon is loaded, and explained to him that you should treat every weapon the same way, blackpowder or cartridge-based. It just suprised me that someone that put his four years in the service would take such a rather careless attitude with any weapon.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 8:11:56 AM EDT
Every weapon should be treated as loaded when around other people.(don't point that damn thing at me!)Having said that, every weapon is not loaded when you have made sure it is clear. I have no problem with myself or somebody else pulling a weapon out of my safe, clearing it and checking down the barrel. This seems kind of pointless however with a blackpowder pistol, unless the cylinder was pulled. Real gun safety, I think, begins and ends with knowledge and comfortable operation of the weapon to include pulling it apart and putting it together again. The above stuff only works when youre in your home or wherever guns are stored. At the range,all weapons are loaded.
Link Posted: 9/4/2001 9:29:15 AM EDT
Interesting comments RE: LEOs. I work with a Federal Special Agent type whom I consider to be extremely intelligent. That it why I found it surprising when he told me his Glock was made by Smith & Wesson. Not wanting to embarrass the man I responded that I had not heard of such a collaboration. He replied that it was a "model 40 Smith & Wesson". I very politely explained the chambering vs the man. confusion. In any case, he is a "good cop" and knows more about police work than I'll ever begin to understand. For him the Glock was issued to him and the ammo is issued to him, beyond that he doesn't have an interest. He qualifies every year and reads the armorer's tech notes. Carrying a weapon is a small part of his job.
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