Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 10
Posted: 7/2/2014 1:04:15 PM EDT
VP
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:09:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Interesting, thanks.



I have nothing else to add except that the Gerrys should have adopted the AR.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:13:52 PM EDT
[#2]
In my salad days, when I knew dick about rifles (just the usual bullshit plus stuff I had read) I wanted a G36K.

Then I found out that I sucked and HK hated me.

My first EBR was a S&W M&P15a in 2006.

It started, for me, a love affair with the modern iteration of the AR-15 platform.

Thank you HK, for hating us so much that you drove me away from your shiny piece of shit rifle.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:14:04 PM EDT
[#3]
I thought those Germans made good stuff?
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:15:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I thought those Germans made good stuff?
View Quote



Well to be fair they did make the VW Beatle.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:16:13 PM EDT
[#5]
So out of curiosity, how "hot" are we talking?

I mean, 110 degree day, does it require 10 mag dumps on full auto?

Seriously.  People talk a lot of shite about it, but if we ever get a civvy G36 in the states will it even be POSSIBLE to get it "hot" enough?
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:16:57 PM EDT
[#6]
They need to trash that POS.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:17:04 PM EDT
[#7]
I say they should adopt a Colt Canada C7 series rifle just to make things right.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:17:34 PM EDT
[#8]
How is heat effecting it?  Is the receiver made of plastic?
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:18:15 PM EDT
[#9]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Thank you HK, for hating us so much that you drove me away from your shiny piece of shit rifle.
View Quote


They really did do you a favor. I'd send them a Thank You card.



 
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:20:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Interesting, thanks.

I have nothing else to add except that the Gerrys should have adopted the AR.
View Quote



With these teething problems it kinda is the like German equivalent of the early M16 problems They will do the same thing we did, throw millions of dollars at it until fixed.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:21:07 PM EDT
[#11]
They should switch to the 416.  Problem solved.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:21:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

They really did do you a favor. I'd send them a Thank You card.
 
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

Thank you HK, for hating us so much that you drove me away from your shiny piece of shit rifle.

They really did do you a favor. I'd send them a Thank You card.
 

HK customer service hated LE over here as well. The rifles have an awful stock on them as well...either too long or too short. We had them on SWAT (select fire) for a few years and they got dumped for Colt Commandos. Best decision ever.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:23:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
I was just reading the news (http://www.tagesschau.de/inland/g36-bundeswehr-106.html) and thought I'd share.

In summary: The German equivalent of the House Ways and Means Committee is now requiring that all contracts between industry and the defense ministry have to be reviewed and OKd by the committee. This includes contracts in low value (less than 25M Euros)).

The problem continues to be the perceived massive inaccuracy afflicting the G36 when it gets hot - up to 7x the allowable deviation. There's a confidential report that basically questions investing 34M Euros in a rifle that "isn't sufficient to meet the requirement of the troops." There was a report that blamed certain lots of ammo, and it is not currently clear if it's the rifle or the ammo.

Basically: They're stopping further expenditures until they figure out what's going.  
View Quote

HK has been offering a fix for years, but they want Germany to pay for it.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:24:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How is heat effecting it?  Is the receiver made of plastic?
View Quote

Barrel trunnion is metal and sits in plastic. Trunnion gets overheated, plastic melts,  gun very inaccurate at that point.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:25:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Well to be fair they did make the VW Beatle.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought those Germans made good stuff?



Well to be fair they did make the VW Beatle.



What is that?  I've never heard of it.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:29:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Where are all the HK dicksuckers who flipped their shit on me when I pointed out the G36 has a history of problems and is generally inferior to its competitors?
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:32:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So out of curiosity, how "hot" are we talking?

I mean, 110 degree day, does it require 10 mag dumps on full auto?

Seriously.  People talk a lot of shite about it, but if we ever get a civvy G36 in the states will it even be POSSIBLE to get it "hot" enough?
View Quote


Go fire a mag or two out of an AR with the handguard off, then immediately grab the barrel near the barrel nut. Report back on your findings.


If you can get the chamber hot enough to cook off rounds, it's a safe bet it may not be healthy for most polymers to structurally contact the same heat source.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:34:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:35:27 PM EDT
[#19]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





Barrel trunnion is metal and sits in plastic. Trunnion gets overheated, plastic melts,  gun very inaccurate at that point.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

How is heat effecting it?  Is the receiver made of plastic?


Barrel trunnion is metal and sits in plastic. Trunnion gets overheated, plastic melts,  gun very inaccurate at that point.

Seems like a simple fix.  Make the upper receiver out of metal.





 
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:35:59 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Go fire a mag or two out of an AR with the handguard off, then immediately grab the barrel near the barrel nut. Report back on your findings.


If you can get the chamber hot enough to cook off rounds, it's a safe bet it may not be healthy for most polymers to structurally contact the same heat source.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
So out of curiosity, how "hot" are we talking?

I mean, 110 degree day, does it require 10 mag dumps on full auto?

Seriously.  People talk a lot of shite about it, but if we ever get a civvy G36 in the states will it even be POSSIBLE to get it "hot" enough?


Go fire a mag or two out of an AR with the handguard off, then immediately grab the barrel near the barrel nut. Report back on your findings.


If you can get the chamber hot enough to cook off rounds, it's a safe bet it may not be healthy for most polymers to structurally contact the same heat source.


What is hot for my hand to touch is not hot enough to deform plastic, necessarily.

Again, what is the test that gets the G36 to start to fail?  If it's 3 consecutive 100 round drum dumps on full auto at 110 degrees ambient temp, that has no impact on me.

I don't care at all about how it does in a test like that.  If it ever comes stateside I'd love to try one out.  But I would like to know what the test shows.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:38:16 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Seems like a simple fix.  Make the upper receiver out of metal.


 
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is heat effecting it?  Is the receiver made of plastic?

Barrel trunnion is metal and sits in plastic. Trunnion gets overheated, plastic melts,  gun very inaccurate at that point.
Seems like a simple fix.  Make the upper receiver out of metal.


 

Too heavy.

And

Asking your customer to pay up for your mistake!  Craziness.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:39:52 PM EDT
[#22]
I hear the Tavor will be the replacement.....












Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:41:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



What is that?  I've never heard of it.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought those Germans made good stuff?



Well to be fair they did make the VW Beatle.



What is that?  I've never heard of it.



It's like a Beetle only spelled wrong.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:43:58 PM EDT
[#24]
How did berretta arx160 not have the same problems.

If you look at the hk243 the barrel trunion area looks beefed up is all
Metal.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:46:23 PM EDT
[#25]
Post-North Hollywood, a police friend's agency bought a bunch of G36s in a panic.  

He discovered the G36 would not hold a zero over a wide temperature range.

Think about that for police use:  in a hostage situation, your G36's zero is way off due to temp and you accidentally shoot a hostage instead of the criminal hostage taker you aime at.

He got the agency to get rid of their G36s for this exact reason.  Some were shown the band-saw.  Some were traded to other departments for useful gear (police do this all the time BTW).
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:46:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Hold the fucking phone. I thought HK was everything that was good and right with the world. Now you're telling me they put out a subpar product?

The fuck you say!
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:47:30 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
How did berretta arx160 not have the same problems.

If you look at the hk243 the barrel trunion area looks beefed up is all
Metal.
View Quote

How long has G36 been around? How long has 160 been around?
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:52:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Do they have stocks of the old G3 rifle? I would re issue them for now
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:52:49 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


What is hot for my hand to touch is not hot enough to deform plastic, necessarily.

Again, what is the test that gets the G36 to start to fail?  If it's 3 consecutive 100 round drum dumps on full auto at 110 degrees ambient temp, that has no impact on me.

I don't care at all about how it does in a test like that.  If it ever comes stateside I'd love to try one out.  But I would like to know what the test shows.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So out of curiosity, how "hot" are we talking?

I mean, 110 degree day, does it require 10 mag dumps on full auto?

Seriously.  People talk a lot of shite about it, but if we ever get a civvy G36 in the states will it even be POSSIBLE to get it "hot" enough?


Go fire a mag or two out of an AR with the handguard off, then immediately grab the barrel near the barrel nut. Report back on your findings.


If you can get the chamber hot enough to cook off rounds, it's a safe bet it may not be healthy for most polymers to structurally contact the same heat source.


What is hot for my hand to touch is not hot enough to deform plastic, necessarily.

Again, what is the test that gets the G36 to start to fail?  If it's 3 consecutive 100 round drum dumps on full auto at 110 degrees ambient temp, that has no impact on me.

I don't care at all about how it does in a test like that.  If it ever comes stateside I'd love to try one out.  But I would like to know what the test shows.


You are aware that you can cook off a chambered round in a normal AR, right?

Now, how hot do you suppose the barrel has to heat up a chambered round to cause thermal ignition?

Now, how hot do you think most advanced polymers can get before losing their acceptable structural qualities?


I'm sure if you baby a G-36, you can avoid this problem. If you have to baby it, what's the point?

An AR does the same job, with common parts, for less money, without melty-melt issues.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:55:23 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

How long has G36 been around? How long has 160 been around?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
How did berretta arx160 not have the same problems.

If you look at the hk243 the barrel trunion area looks beefed up is all
Metal.

How long has G36 been around? How long has 160 been around?


The ARX-160 hasn't been around long enough or used in sufficient numbers to figure out how much it sucks balls.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 1:57:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Except their issues have been going on for over a decade.  Heck the US Army figured out the damn gun was useless in a much shorter time (see XM-8).
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Interesting, thanks.

I have nothing else to add except that the Gerrys should have adopted the AR.



With these teething problems it kinda is the like German equivalent of the early M16 problems They will do the same thing we did, throw millions of dollars at it until fixed.


Except their issues have been going on for over a decade.  Heck the US Army figured out the damn gun was useless in a much shorter time (see XM-8).


I wonder how many PV2s have beat off to the XM-8 in the Army Times?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 2:00:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The ARX-160 hasn't been around long enough or used in sufficient numbers to figure out how much it sucks balls.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How did berretta arx160 not have the same problems.

If you look at the hk243 the barrel trunion area looks beefed up is all
Metal.

How long has G36 been around? How long has 160 been around?


The ARX-160 hasn't been around long enough or used in sufficient numbers to figure out how much it sucks balls.



Exactly my point
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 2:00:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Here's a G-36 trunnion area I cut long ago. Some of you may even recognize some of the images.

It's just a chunk of metal held by the plastic. It gets too hot, and it moves.






Link Posted: 7/2/2014 2:01:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Why are they blaming the ammo? They using some kind of super hot loads or something?
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 2:01:33 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Here's a G-36 trunnion area I cut long ago. Some of you may even recognize some of the images.

It's just a chunk of metal held by the plastic. It gets too hot, and it moves.

http://i.imgur.com/ZJnX1hq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jrLBhkf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ixgee0P.jpg
View Quote

Awesome. Thanks
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 2:02:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Recently did some training with a German and some Brits. Talked with the German a bit about the G36 and he said he loved it. Said he's never had a problem with it, even in Afghanistan. I know, CSB.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 2:09:35 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Interesting, thanks.

I have nothing else to add except that the Gerrys should have adopted the AR.
View Quote

They did, it's just an AR18.

Quoted:
I say they should adopt a Colt Canada C7 series rifle just to make things right.
View Quote


They should adopt the L85A2 since they already fixed that one for the Brits.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 2:17:35 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Well to be fair they did make the VW Beatle.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought those Germans made good stuff?



Well to be fair they did make the VW Beatle.


That's not a strong argument for "good stuff" and you know it.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 2:17:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

You are aware that you can cook off a chambered round in a normal AR, right?

Now, how hot do you suppose the barrel has to heat up a chambered round to cause thermal ignition?

Now, how hot do you think most advanced polymers can get before losing their acceptable structural qualities?


I'm sure if you baby a G-36, you can avoid this problem. If you have to baby it, what's the point?

An AR does the same job, with common parts, for less money, without melty-melt issues.
View Quote


You are offering anecdotal information that is common knowledge.  A lot of polymers have a very high temperature resistance.  Every material has a thermal expansion coefficient.  Typically polymer has a higher one than steel, that is to say it changes shape more per degree of temperature rise.  Ceramics are extremely low.  That is why HK usually uses glass based polymers in their handguns and I assume their rifles.

Additionally, different materials change strength characteristics as temperatures change.

Both of these have a key role in what's going on with the G36.  So again... what rate of fire, sustained for how long, with what ambient temperature is being used for the test?  And it would be safe to assume that the accuracy would change slowly as the rifle heated up.  What kind of rate of change are we talking about with the accuracy as it relates to the rate of fire?

Why would I want a G36?  Because in my opinion, it's a modernized fully ambidextrous AK47.  Piston operated, easy as hell to clean, simple sleak sides that make carrying it on the back in a 3 point sling easy since it won't stab you, folding stock capability, much better irons than an AK, etc.  The only thing I don't like about it on paper is that mag changes are slow because of the operation of the bolt that is required.  Oh, and I'm sure the trigger is shit, but I'm an AUG guy so it'll probably be a huge upgrade.  

eta: some more things I like about it and to say:

eta2:  If every military gives up on the G36 for this issue off of the idea that it starts to lose accuracy at 3 mag dumps from 3 beta mags with 110 degrees ambient temperature, that has absolutely no bearing on the rifles capabilities in my hands as a civilian.  So what I'm trying to figure out is when things go bad.  I'd LOVE to conduct a test of my own on this.  If I remember correctly they were trying to drop a G36 variant into the mix for a LMG support role.  So... yikes.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 2:20:17 PM EDT
[#40]
I guess they'll go with the HK M4 now?

Funny how the 'awful' M4 is the go-to for so many militarys and particularly their SOF troops.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 2:37:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 3:54:55 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



What is that?  I've never heard of it.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought those Germans made good stuff?



Well to be fair they did make the VW Beatle.



What is that?  I've never heard of it.



They were that awesome german pop band that sang "Komm Gib Mir Deine Hand"
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 3:59:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Seems like a simple fix.  Make the upper receiver out of metal.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is heat effecting it?  Is the receiver made of plastic?

Barrel trunnion is metal and sits in plastic. Trunnion gets overheated, plastic melts,  gun very inaccurate at that point.
Seems like a simple fix.  Make the upper receiver out of metal.

That's sorta what the ACR is, a G36 without the silly charging handle arrangement (that increases the height over bore) and a metal receiver. The ACR was an internal project supposedly designed to overcome the deficiencies that Magpul saw in the XM8 (and thus G36).
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 4:02:04 PM EDT
[#44]
It's an inferior design.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 4:02:05 PM EDT
[#45]
German Engineering at it's finest.
So over-engineered it doesn't work.
Hmm, that sounds familiar.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 4:03:03 PM EDT
[#46]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


It's an inferior design.
View Quote
Bullshit, it's an awesome design, poorly executed.
 
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 4:04:38 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
German Engineering at it's finest.



So over-engineered it doesn't work.



Hmm, that sounds familiar.
View Quote



Jetta?
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 4:06:18 PM EDT
[#48]
The G36 is a heap of plastic shit that HK fanboys masturbate to.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 4:06:54 PM EDT
[#49]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

snip



Why would I want a G36?  Because in my opinion, it's a modernized fully ambidextrous AK47.  Piston operated, easy as hell to clean, simple sleak sides that make carrying it on the back in a 3 point sling easy since it won't stab you, folding stock capability, much better irons than an AK, etc.  The only thing I don't like about it on paper is that mag changes are slow because of the operation of the bolt that is required.  Oh, and I'm sure the trigger is shit, but I'm an AUG guy so it'll probably be a huge upgrade.  



snip
View Quote
No it's not.





It's a modernized AR-18 with a ghetto charging handle.
 
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 4:07:52 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Bullshit, it's an awesome design, poorly executed.



 
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's an inferior design.
Bullshit, it's an awesome design, poorly executed.



 

The end result still sucks, so it's splitting hairs.

The 416 is awesome compared to the G36--it's just heavier than two lead bricks taped together, then taped to another lead brick.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 10
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top