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Posted: 5/8/2004 11:10:49 AM EST
I was listening to America's Car how today (link for reference but I don't see this info on the site www.americascarshow.com/) and they said that Daimler Chrysler is going to start building Mercedes cars in CHINA. That's just wrong.

found a link
www.daimlerchrysler.com/dccom/0,,0-5-7145-1-188039-1-0-0-0-0-0-9-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0,00.html
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 11:12:10 AM EST
Cool, maybe now the import lovers can get them at WalMart!
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 11:13:25 AM EST
So are they building them in the USA now?

BigDozer66
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 11:14:29 AM EST
Given the growing market in China I doubt any of them will be exported.


For now....
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 11:15:37 AM EST
F••K IT! I don't want to believe it! That's it I'm selling my Mercedes! I don't want my car to be just another cheapshit chinese import

WTF is wrong with the west… I want QUALITY! not cheap QUANTITY.

Andy
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 11:16:21 AM EST


Build in China? Wow. Does that mean the price is going to be be cheaper or the same?
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 12:10:01 PM EST
hey why not. mercedes generally have lower than average reliability ratings.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 12:12:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 12:46:04 PM EST by Kar98]
Daimler-Chrysler/Mercedes already has plants in the following countries:

Germany

Austria, France, South Africa, United States, Argentina, Brazil, Canada, India, Indonesia, Mexico, Spain, Turkey, Hungary, Mexico, South Korea and Vietnam.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 12:15:24 PM EST
Wow ! What an ending !
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 12:30:58 PM EST
Are they building it for internal consumption or for export? last time I was there all the taxis were 2nd generation VW Jettas.VW must have sold off the tooling to them after they had no use for it.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 12:33:56 PM EST
No question these will end up being exported to the rest of the world. Its hard for a greedy execs to pass up on $1.50 an hour employes.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 12:41:32 PM EST
Great! That means the 2k I save on a new benz will go back into the economy.
Everyone thinks moving overseas is bad. Any Econ majors here? It is only bad if those workers don't get remployed which we know they will for several reasons I won't get into. It releases their labor to do stuff that will make society better off.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 12:47:09 PM EST
oubeta,
Please get into those reasons. Also, what will the recently unemployed start doing to make society "better off?"
No flame, just curious. IM or start another thread.
-Ngog
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 12:52:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ngog_Nrythrng:
Please get into those reasons. Also, what will the recently unemployed start doing to make society "better off?"
-Ngog



Kindly refrain from doubting the words of our President! Why do you hate freedom so much?
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 12:54:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kar98:

Originally Posted By Ngog_Nrythrng:
Please get into those reasons. Also, what will the recently unemployed start doing to make society "better off?"
-Ngog



Kindly refrain from doubting the words of our President! Why do you hate freedom so much?



This must be a joke?
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 1:02:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ngog_Nrythrng:
oubeta,
Please get into those reasons. Also, what will the recently unemployed start doing to make society "better off?"
No flame, just curious. IM or start another thread.
-Ngog



The recently unemployed will release their resources into making something that society values more.
A few of the reasons we know they will get remployed are history for one and americas infinite desire for goods and services. It's all theory, all economics is based on theory. My thoery or the one I was taught makes the most sense to me, but it only works if the workers get remployed. For me to even argue with someone they have to accept my argument that layed off workers get rehired at or above wha they were meking.

When firms act in the best intrest of the firm it actually is the best for society.
I'll try to find a better way to explain it.
In a free-market economy outsourcing actually helps the american economy more then it hurts. Ya is sux for all those workers out of a job, but the net gain by society is much larger then then the net loss of those few people out of work.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 1:07:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 1:08:34 PM EST by oubeta]
If you have time to read this guys theory it will make you look at the economy and goverment intervention in a whole different way.
www.ou.edu/class/econ3003/area1b.htm

Ch 30 is a good read on outsourcing

Read it with an open mind. It took me reading several different economist books on outsourcing etc to see the big picture.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 1:37:02 PM EST
Mercedes also plans to use the High Quality Hyundai engines for their lower end vehicles.
]biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/040507/b3883054_2.html[/url
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 1:47:26 PM EST
I am just wondering how a German company building Mercedes in China qualifies as outsourcing from the US point of view.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:10:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By mikejohnson:
Mercedes also plans to use the High Quality Hyundai engines for their lower end vehicles.
]biz.yahoo.com/bizwk/040507/b3883054_2.html[/url



Oh God, It gets worse…

Andy
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:26:00 PM EST
I never said it was, but it is outsourcing, just not from the US to Asia


Originally Posted By LARRYG:
I am just wondering how a German company building Mercedes in China qualifies as outsourcing from the US point of view.

Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:32:05 PM EST
Outsourcing is good !

Outsourcing is good !

Outsourcing is good !

Outsourcing is good !

~Newspeak 2004



Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:34:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By oubeta:
If you have time to read this guys theory it will make you look at the economy and goverment intervention in a whole different way.
www.ou.edu/class/econ3003/area1b.htm

Ch 30 is a good read on outsourcing

Read it with an open mind. It took me reading several different economist books on outsourcing etc to see the big picture.



Seeing the Big Picture is good !

Seeing the Big Picture is good !

Seeing the Big Picture is good !

Seeing the Big Picture is good !

~Newspeak 2004

Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:37:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 2:38:17 PM EST by raven]
It doesn't make that much sense to build autos in China at the moment. Their big advantage is low labor costs, but manufacturing autos is not labor-intensive, it's capital-intensive. Especially high quality, luxury vehicles like Mercedes.

What's the most capital-rich country in the world? The US. That's why you see quite a few Japanese and German auto makers have factories here.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:46:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 2:56:06 PM EST by Kar98]
Right, raven. But the point for Mercedes and VW for instance is to produce affordable cars locally to sell locally, to people who couldn't otherwise buy a German-built 2004 mid-sized sedan. Their brands have to get a hold on the local market or some other company is going to sell the cars in that segment...which is why Mercedes is building the M class here, as well as BMW the X3 and X5, and Saab is going to sell a US-built SUV as well.
"The indigenous people couldn't afford a vehicle built in Europe, but they /want/ /this kind/ of vehicle and they are going to buy it from /somebody/. Might as well be us, let's build it where the buyers are and save on shipping costs, as well."
Well, that's the theory.

PS: I /know/ Saab is a Swedish GM-brand. Just used them as example to illustrate my point. People wanna buy a fancy-schmancy Euro vehicle, let's build something here and slap some cool name badge on it. So what would otherwise at best be the "Alabama Motor Vehicle and Spittoon Factory" is now cranking out Mercdessess (?) instead.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 2:48:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By wetidlerjr:
Outsourcing is good !

Outsourcing is good !

Outsourcing is good !

Outsourcing is good !

~Newspeak 2004






You are right my friend
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 4:22:39 PM EST

So are they building them in the USA now?

M-B's ML-series SUVs are built in Alabama.

China has been a fairly big market for M-B. I figured it'd only be a matter of time before they started building cars their.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 5:47:56 PM EST
no telling whether or not we're going to be getting the chink MB's.

Both GM and VW have plants in China, but they're selling the "Made in China" cars only in their domestic market.


Automakers typically have plants everywhere. Toyota, Honda, BMW and others have plants here in the US.

Some Toyotas are made in Fremont, CA at the New United Motors Mfg, Inc (NUMMI) plant. It's a joint venture with GM. Ever wonder why the Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe look so similar? They're the same car. All built in Freakmont.

BMW has a Spartansburg, SC plant. Z4's and Z3's are/were built there.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 5:51:12 PM EST
I don't understand how any company can responsibly reconcile investing that kind of money and effort in China. The country is just too damn unstable IMO, and had it not been for Klinton's giving them MFNTS they would have already gone into civil war.

Makes one wonder what will happen to all those factories *when* not "if" China attacks Taiwan? The other problem is that of technology flight. When you send manufacturing technique out of your country, you are giving away the business you are in. My Dad's company (TRW) is experiencing that with airbag system development being handed to the Indians on a silver platter. The profits look GREAT until you customer goes directly to the people you used to outsource. Ask the Japanese about the "good ol' days" when TV's and VCR's were made in Japan and not China..

I'm not economist, but I believe that for countries like the USA to thrive, we need a third world take advantage of. Now that the world is smaller and the shithole countries in Asia and Africa are advancing rapidly this is becoming less and less possible for us.

Dave
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 6:05:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/8/2004 6:06:51 PM EST by Hydguy]

Originally Posted By vito113:
WTF is wrong with the west… I want QUALITY! not cheap QUANTITY.

Andy



SO why did you buy a Mercedes? Biggest POS's on the road...
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 6:54:20 PM EST
I have seen people who think they all are made in Germany and will not change their mind, even with US plants. Im sure they will still think them same thing.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 7:08:17 PM EST

SO why did you buy a Mercedes? Biggest POS's on the road...

SO what model do you own? Please tell us...
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 7:23:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:

I'm not economist, but I believe that for countries like the USA to thrive, we need a third world take advantage of. Now that the world is smaller and the shithole countries in Asia and Africa are advancing rapidly this is becoming less and less possible for us.

Dave



If they felt they were being taking advantage of it wouldn't happen. The free economy is led by the "invisible hand". Look at it this way, when a product is developed engineers and scientists work to refine the product then they pass the tourch on to factory workers who are less skilled to make the product. Well why can't they pass it down to someone less skilled then them? this would be third world countries. Now they are free to work on producing other goods which are newer in the product lifecycle.
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 7:35:39 PM EST
I didn't mean take advantage of in the lowest common terms-even the 11 year old who works a 14 hour day is happy to have her job and is benefitting her local economy by working for $.60 an hour job making $150 Nikes.

Sure is hard to say it without coming off that way though, isn't it?

Dave
Link Posted: 5/8/2004 7:43:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
I didn't mean take advantage of in the lowest common terms-even the 11 year old who works a 14 hour day is happy to have her job and is benefitting her local economy by working for $.60 an hour job making $150 Nikes.

Sure is hard to say it without coming off that way though, isn't it?

Dave



This is where externalites come into play or third parties. If society cares so much they will be led my the 'invisible hand' to so something about it. Which is exactly what happened with the crackdown on 'sweat shoops'.
You can see these externalities in play all over the place. Just for an example, Willie Nelsons Farm Aid benefit concerts or recyling. Recycling doesn't make any economic sense, but we still do it because it is worth the extra cost we pay or extra resources that go into recycling knowing that we might be helping the enviorment. A truly free market economy seems to work itself out by itself. It's when goverments start to interfer and start banning outsourcing, or giving subsidys, etc
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