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Posted: 8/4/2009 5:13:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/4/2009 5:15:28 PM EST by x5060]
Joel wants an honest discussion about Healthcare. He doesn't want fear-mongering, or random unfocused protests, or having it shoved down our throats. Everyone admits something needs to be done, so work on it. You don't have to agree 100% in something to support it...

Karena: I wish we didn't have to pay $12 for an aspirin in the hospital. I think maybe we should start there and expand out.

Ethan: I think we need to start with the drug companies and get them to lower their prices..

Jessica: I am a fan of socialized medicine.

Eric (who participated in the argument which resulted from a previous status update like what joel posted): Didnt we already try this? Then everyone stopped responding when I pointed out Hawaii already tried socialized medicine and failed miserably?

I also find it somewhat academically dishonest by saying you dont want any "fear-mongering", "unfocused protest", and whatever essentially dismissing any arguments before they are made.

Anyway, try reading this

http://www.theadvocates.org/freeman/8903lemi.html

and to help with your bias, try reading it and imagine morgan freemans voice reading it to you.

I just can not condone a solution that essentially replaces a persons responsibility to provide for themselves with a government program.

(3 minutes and 6 seconds later) Jessica: nice. I just spent all summer in the UK, which has socialize mediciine and education. It works pretty well there. It works in Canada...Would you like more examples?

Eric: Well you responded to my post 3 minutes and 6 seconds after I posted it. Assuming you started reading the article I posted the exact second I posted it, allowed 5 seconds to respond, actually thought about the arguments, and thoroughly considered the arguments (we'll say 15 seconds, but im guessing im being generous)

That meant you read the article at a stunning

3035 + 92 = 3127 words

3.1 minutes

3127 / 3.1 = 1008.70 words per minute

*wikipedia*
The World Championship Speed Reading Competition stresses reading comprehension as critical, and that the top contestants typically read around 1000 words per minute with approximately 50% comprehension.*/wikipedia*

I would like to congratulate you on your speed reading champion status and urge you to go back and re-read the article again to comprehend the other 50%.
Link Posted: 8/4/2009 5:16:53 PM EST
hahahahaaaaaa
Link Posted: 8/5/2009 4:52:40 AM EST
More

Joel: Eric,

You know how I feel about all of this. We had this discussion many times during the Fall.

I can agree with your points, but still not believe in them. As long as I can have my opinion, you can have yours as well.

But as a person with a chronic illness, I live in fear each day of being dropped and having to pay out of pocket for my medication. A full months worth of Medication (without insurance) would cost me almost $1k. I even take very good care of my disease, such that I don't have any 'fringe' problems.

Also, my family is having problems just keeping up with our Healthcare premiums. They have went up so much faster than my parents have had raises, how can we deal with that?

Jess may not be right, socialized medicine may not be the answer, but something has to be done. Something (could be anything) needs to stop these costs from rising at such a ludicrous rate.

~Joel


Joel:
I also want to address how we pay for care.

My doctor gets paid more if they perform more tests on me, or see more patients in a day. Its kinda like the factories I've worked at. We pay the line workers for the more parts they produce.

Does this lead to a better system?

Oh, and I watched those videos on Fox and the Interwebs about the people disrupting town hall meetings. I find them disrupting the discussion with their senator dismissing an argument before its made.
'bout 10 turn o' yer hourglass ago


Eric:
But what entitles you to take money from me (through taxation) for your own chronic illness? I mean you no disrespect toward your condition but it is disturbing to see that you simply want the government to absolve you of your personal responsibility to provide for your health needs and instead force that onto everyone else.

Not to mention those that need it wont be paying for the program as the average person that needs it is poor and pays very little taxes. While those that dont need the program (those of us who pay for our health insurance) will be taxed to pay for their medical care and my own.

This is just a more subtle wealth re-distribution scam.

"I find them disrupting the discussion with their senator dismissing an argument before its made."

Didnt the left do this ad nauseam for ANYTHING bush did? From what I remember it was considered very patriotic of them within the democrat party. Apparently dissent is no longer patriotic.


Joel:
They left, like the right, didn't learn anything from being the minority party.

And isn't government on any level a Wealth Distribution scam?

Why do I pay for the fire deparment when my house isn't burning? Why do I pay for roads I'll never drive on? Why do I pay taxes for airports and airlines that I don't fly on?

This being a wealth scam involves the grander purpose of government.


Eric:
I agree personally, Government is a wealth re-distribution scam. It should be sought to be made as small as reasonably possible.

Basic infrastructure benefits everyone equally, socialized health care does not. Airports should be for-profit, and many are. Airports also tend to sustain their own budget as they impose fees on airlines and ticket prices. Fire departments should be made smaller and more efficient as well as police departments.

Your last argument is a natural logical fallacy. It is a derivative of Reductio ad absurdum as where you take my argument against socialized health care and apply it directly to other situations with no regard to context.

Also, what is the "Grander purpose of government" you speak of?


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