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Posted: 12/23/2003 11:01:01 AM EDT
Trying to see if this is a trend. My ex-GF was rabidly anti-gun. She was also a PhD in Mathematics. Her whole family was so anti-gun that when her brother wanted to bring a gun to their mountain retreat for a family reunion they all piled on him until he capitulated. And these people are from South Carolina, too.

Do you think more educated = less gun tolerant? Do you see this trend in people?
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:04:02 AM EDT
They get educated out of their self-interest, and into a singular concern for society.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:04:05 AM EDT
john r. lott is pretty educated, too
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:05:29 AM EDT
Dr. Walter E. Williams, PhD
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:06:43 AM EDT
There will be exceptions. But what about generally speaking.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:07:41 AM EDT
As I understand it, people without HS diplomas and people with college degrees (B.S., B.A.) are more often gun owners.  People with only HS diplomas and people with advanced degrees are more likely to not own guns.

Having said that, people with [i]technical[/i] advanced degrees are some of the most gun-owning people I've ever met.  It seems to be the "soft-science" weenies that are truly anti-gun.  

Sounds like your ex was brainwashed by her family long before she acquired her Ph.D.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:17:49 AM EDT
Have two Masters and hope to pursue a PhD in the fall.  Most of my friends from school are gun owners and the rest are what I would describe as gun tolerant.

I think major makes a big difference in how education will influence your view of firearms.  Majors such as political science, journalism or art may move a person in that direction partly because they attract some people who aren't real connected to the real world and also because of the large numbers of liberals in those fields.  Real world majors tend to be better schooled in practical logic and get the idea that taking the guns away from the good guys doesn't help stop the bad guys.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:18:03 AM EDT
It's a clear trend, but it's not a perfect relationship.  Only the upper middle, and lower upper classes are effected.  This is the demographic that can move to 'safe' areas populated with people just like themselves.  Add this to their association only with people like themselves in their daily lives, and just about anything without a little smiley [:)] attached is scary.  Since they neither hunt, nor enjoy shooting, they and their 'society' have no use for firearms.  It's a dream world they've created for themselves.  

Many of my co-workers are like this.  One even was in the process of hiring someone to 'relocate' a beaver that was damning his ponds overflow.  The only reason he didn't go through with it, is because it suddenly disappeared (disease, or car splat).  He (yes HE), rejected my offer to shoot it, even though the local & state authorities told him that is what he should do, as they'd declare it a nusance.

Part of this demographic's image is a separation from the lower classes.  Education generally paralells income, which generally denotes your 'class'.  Since firearms and the shooting sports are normally considered 'low class' by this group (all shooters are 'good ole boys'), they strive to disassociate themselves as if it's somehow an intellectual badge of honor.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:20:02 AM EDT
Well, I have to admit the more time in school the more indoctrination by liberals, however some do have the ability to see through the smoke(BS).

Tj
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:22:12 AM EDT
Speaking as one who has it Piled Higher and deeper, I think the temptation is to be less trustful of the "ignorant masses".  I think most of the anti-gun academics out there wouldn't have any problem owning guns themselves.  They're just afraid of the average Joe being able to go buy one.  You see this all the time with politicians and actors...

Shit, I admit:  I'm scared when I go to the gun show and see some marpat-wearing wannabe telling everyone how he carries a "gat" every time he goes to the "hood" to show them "mo-fos" who's boss.  Do I think he's an idiot?  Yes?  Do I think it's right to deny RKBA to someone because I think they're an idiot?  No.  I would much rather be legally armed in order to defend myself from those who will be armed without regard for the law.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:22:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wdsman:
Majors such as political science, journalism or art may move a person in that direction partly because they attract some people who aren't real connected to the real world and also because of the large numbers of liberals in those fields.  Real world majors tend to be better schooled in practical logic and get the idea that taking the guns away from the good guys doesn't help stop the bad guys.
View Quote



Ding, Ding, Ding....We have a winner!
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:24:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:27:21 AM EDT
Five docs in my office, three gun owners (one rabid), the two others are tolerant. Surgeon downstairs is an avid hunter and lauded my efforts to take my sons, 8 and 6, shooting. Five surgeons next door - four hunters, one tolerant. Hell, maybe that's just Alabama, maybe its MD's. Probably a little of both.

Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:29:49 AM EDT
More education general means being committed to a liberal [b]institution[/b] of higher learning.

Thus the general lack of tolerance for reality in general.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:30:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2003 11:32:00 AM EDT by clean_cut]
Mathematics is not considered a technical field. She studied [i]theorethical[/i] mathematics, not applied. Applied math and science (in other words - engineering) are rather looked down upon by the theorists, or purists as they like to think of themselves.


Add: She got her PhD at Rice University, a private, expensive, and prestigious university here in Houston.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:31:44 AM EDT
Clean-cut,
This same thread was pretty well thrashed out over in the Snipers Hide.  You can probably still find it over there.  As I remember, the final tally was something like a couple hundred replies which broke down something like; 30% - High School, 30% - College Degree and 30% - Advanced Degree.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:32:45 AM EDT
Snipers Hide - is that a forum?
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:33:02 AM EDT
I do not know if it is as clear-cut as that.  I think there are a lot of factors involved.

I shoot with a lot of different people from all walks of life, many with advanced degrees.

I think it has to do with where and how they were brought up - City v. Country,  their parent's feeling about guns, the geographical region of the country they grew up in.

Most of the people I know who are anti-gun have an unfounded fear of them.  They just don't know about them or never REALLY handled one.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:33:16 AM EDT
I don't think it takes much of a stretch of the imagination to guess the political alignment of the 95th-percentile liberal arts Doctoral candidate. Sure, there are exceptions that prove the rule, but it's certainly a safe bet that your arch-typical PhD in some social science is gonna be a pinko. Now in engineering, I was very pleasantly surprised to find a healthy population of conservative opinions among my professors.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:33:17 AM EDT
Personally I don't think there is any correlation between education and anti/pro-gun. I think would have to be more with the upbring and early childhood environment.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:36:16 AM EDT
Six of the ten lawyers in my firm are gun owners.  Only one of the rest is really anti-gun.

My father, two brothers, and my sister are not only edumacated, they're teachers (traditionally viewed as very liberal anti's), and they're all gun owners.  

I don't think there is any real correlation to be had between gun ownership and education.  Some of the loudest anti's out there (Hollywierd types) aren't even college grads.  It's got more to do with liberal vs. conservative than educational level.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:42:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By eswanson:
I don't think there is any real correlation to be had between gun ownership and education.
View Quote


Perhaps it's a regional thing, but in the South, a significant part of the 'educated' yuppie set (of which I am one) does indeed become anti slanted as a point of differentiation.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:51:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2003 12:09:06 PM EDT by HardShell]
I see a lot of anecdotal references, which have their place (e.g., my wife & I have a half-dozen degrees between us & are both active shooters, hunters, etc.) - but I think the answer to your question probably has less to do with field of study, etc. than it has to do with mindset PRIOR to said education.

IN GENERAL (dangerous words, I know), I believe someone who does not have strong opinions & beliefs is much more likely to be influenced in such things by the totality of their education.  MOST (not all) higher education has a liberal bent, so many who do not begin their education with well-developed knowledge/opinions/beliefs will probably become less tolerant of firearms, religion, "old-fashioned values," & conservatism in general.  Those who started out leaning left will simply have their belief structure reinforced & validated.  Hardcore conservatives will be challenged, offended, & even ridiculed, but most (like many of us here) will not be swayed.

I do agree that certain fields of study may exhibit more (P.S., liberal arts?) or less (Economics, Statistics) leftward lean than others.

That's just the way I see it...


edited to add:
My personal experience:
Undergraduate:  BSs in CJ & Psych. - conservatives in the minority (large public university)
1st Master:  Business Administration - about a 50/50 split (small public university)
2nd Master:  Public Health - token conservative in a sea of far-left-wingers (large public university)


My wife's experience:
Undergraduate:  BSs in Math & Physics - conservatives in the minority, despite private Baptist university
Law School:  ditto

Personally, I believe (and I certainly can't back this up statistically) that we would have been much more in the minority outside of the Deep South...
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 11:59:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Mathematics is not considered a technical field. She studied [i]theorethical[/i] mathematics, not applied. Applied math and science (in other words - engineering) are rather looked down upon by the theorists, or purists as they like to think of themselves.
View Quote


I hear you. As an engineer, I've worked with some theoretical types at major government laboratories that had PhD's piled on their desk. They were amazingly brilliant until it came time to figure out how to program their VCR.
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 7:34:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Do you think more educated = less gun tolerant? Do you see this trend in people?
View Quote


No, not in my experience.

Lots of my friends and collegues who shoot have PhDs (as do I).

Actually, most of the MDs I know (one of my brothers is a physician, and my mom worked in the medical field) are gun owners.

Like many other cross-sections of society, folks with "higher education" offer the full range of political views on an issue like guns.

DrMark
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 7:39:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CavVet:
Originally Posted By Wdsman:
Majors such as political science, journalism or art may move a person in that direction partly because they attract some people who aren't real connected to the real world and also because of the large numbers of liberals in those fields.  Real world majors tend to be better schooled in practical logic and get the idea that taking the guns away from the good guys doesn't help stop the bad guys.
View Quote



Ding, Ding, Ding....We have a winner!
View Quote


I agree with this whole-heartedly. I have a Masters and about to have an MD, father-in-law is a gun fanatic with several degrees and 30 years with NASA. It just depends on the upbringing, character and education of the person. Some of us get degrees that allow us to think independently (engineering, mathematics, medicine, chemistry, etc.). Someof us get degress that are brainwashing in nature (sociology, history, policital science).

-Juice Out
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 7:40:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CavVet:
Originally Posted By Wdsman:
Majors such as political science, journalism or art may move a person in that direction partly because they attract some people who aren't real connected to the real world and also because of the large numbers of liberals in those fields.  Real world majors tend to be better schooled in practical logic and get the idea that taking the guns away from the good guys doesn't help stop the bad guys.
View Quote



Ding, Ding, Ding....We have a winner!
View Quote


Hi, my name is Deimos, and I have a major in Journalism. (and there's a reason on why I design web sites for a living)

NsB

Link Posted: 12/23/2003 7:41:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TexasEd:
I hear you. As an engineer, I've worked with some theoretical types at major government laboratories that had PhD's piled on their desk. They were amazingly brilliant until it came time to figure out how to program their VCR.
View Quote


Hey! My VCR (circa 1987) is still flashing "12:00"

* tossing diplomas in the fireplace *
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 7:51:10 PM EDT
All i can say is thank god I'm majoring in Criminal Justice!  Anyone else feel ripped off about the sentence that the liberal jury down in Chesapeake, VA handed down today in the Malvo trial? I feel sorry for the victim's families, I mean what the hell was the jury thinking? The little prick has already tried to escape once, who's to say he won't be successfull the next time? Oh well, guess it's time to camp outside the prison walls and hope he attempts to escape[kill][kill][kill][kill]
Link Posted: 12/23/2003 7:53:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
Originally Posted By eswanson:
I don't think there is any real correlation to be had between gun ownership and education.
View Quote


Perhaps it's a regional thing, but in the South, a significant part of the 'educated' yuppie set (of which I am one) does indeed become anti slanted as a point of differentiation.
View Quote

You're right, there was a story about gun owners in the Wall Street Journal about 10 years ago, and they concluded that people in the South own more guns than people in the north, and the author was shocked that the people would go shoot a machine during their lunch hour.
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