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Posted: 2/15/2012 1:34:43 PM EDT
link


Pediatricians fed up with parents who refuse to vaccinate their children out of concern it can cause autism or other problems increasingly are "firing" such families from their practices, raising questions about a doctor's responsibility to these patients.
Medical associations don't recommend such patient bans, but the practice appears to be growing, according to vaccine researchers. In a study of Connecticut pediatricians published last year, some 30% of 133 doctors said they had asked a family to leave their practice for vaccine refusal, and a recent survey of 909 Midwestern pediatricians found that 21% reported discharging families for the same reason.

By comparison, in 2001 and 2006 about 6% of physicians said they "routinely" stopped working with families due to parents' continued vaccine refusal and 16% "sometimes" dismissed them, according to surveys conducted then by the American Academy of Pediatrics.

"There's more noise among pediatricians, more people willing to argue that it's OK to do this versus 10 years ago," said Douglas Diekema, a professor of pediatrics at the University of Washington in Seattle. Dr. Diekema wrote the AAP's policy on working with vaccine refusers, which recommends providers address the issue at repeated visits, but respect parents' wishes unless it puts a child at risk of significant harm.

Most pediatricians consider preventing disease through vaccines a primary goal of their job. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and AAP issue an annual recommended vaccination schedule, but some parents ask if their child's immunizations can be pushed back or skipped altogether, pediatricians say.

While rates for several key inoculations in young children rose between 2009 and 2010, according to the CDC, lower immunization rates have been blamed as a factor in U.S. outbreaks of whooping cough and measles in recent years.

Parents often voice concerns about autism or that their child's immune system may be overwhelmed by too many vaccines at once. Worries about a link between vaccines and autism arose because some parents noticed their children regressed, or lost some skills, around the time of their vaccinations at two years of age. Another concern centered on the former use of mercury as a vaccine preservative.

Numerous studies since have dispelled these concerns among scientists. Rather, scientists say, it is more likely that autism symptoms begin showing up around the same age children are vaccinated.
...
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 1:40:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Not surprising.  Can't say I blame them.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 1:45:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Not surprising.  Can't say I blame them.


I wouldn't want to work on a car that's never been maintained.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 1:49:59 PM EDT
[#3]
If they don't believe in modern medicine, what is the point of going to the pediatrician?

Go see a witchdoctor that will coddle to your stone age beliefs.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 1:52:45 PM EDT
[#4]
There was an episode of House that dealt with this.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 1:55:52 PM EDT
[#5]
If they are dumb enough to believe vaccines cause autism, why would you want to treat them.

Natural selection is great a weeding out retards
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 1:57:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
If they don't believe in modern medicine, what is the point of going to the pediatrician?

Go see a witchdoctor that will coddle to your stone age beliefs.


This.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 1:57:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not surprising.  Can't say I blame them.


I wouldn't want to work on a car that's never been maintained.


It's like eating watermelons that have been rounded huh?
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:09:44 PM EDT
[#8]
There's a high likely-hood those patients are fucking morons.  Nobody likes dealing with fucking morons.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:15:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:15:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's a high likely-hood those patients are fucking morons.  Nobody likes dealing with fucking morons.


Exactly.



SO are the vaccines safe then?

Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:16:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
There's a high likely-hood those patients are fucking morons.  Nobody likes dealing with fucking morons.


i know a couple who are anti vacination. I can confirm they are fucking morons.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:18:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's a high likely-hood those patients are fucking morons.  Nobody likes dealing with fucking morons.


Exactly.



SO are the vaccines safe then?



More safe then stepping out of the bathtub, driving your car, or getting on a plane. Yup.

Of all the things you do in life this is probably the safest thing you will ever do.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:21:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's a high likely-hood those patients are fucking morons.  Nobody likes dealing with fucking morons.


Exactly.



SO are the vaccines safe then?



The issue is more that doctors don't want the future accountability for complications arising from non-vaccinated illness that will certainly be blamed on them.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:22:41 PM EDT
[#14]



Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

There's a high likely-hood those patients are fucking morons.  Nobody likes dealing with fucking morons.




Exactly.







SO are the vaccines safe then?







The issue is more that doctors don't want the future accountability for complications arising from non-vaccinated illness that will certainly be blamed on them.



This.



And I don't blame them one bit.



 
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:23:06 PM EDT
[#15]
People who are against vaccinations make my head full of fuck


PS, my city has an outbreak of whooping cough.  Any guesses why?
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:25:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Does it really matter at this point?

Last statistics I read, 12 out of every 10 children born in the U.S. is autistic.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:26:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:27:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
If they don't believe in modern medicine, what is the point of going to the pediatrician?

Go see a witchdoctor that will coddle to your stone age beliefs.


Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:29:36 PM EDT
[#19]



Quoted:



Quoted:

Not surprising.  Can't say I blame them.




I wouldn't want to work on a car that's never been maintained.


I imagine they also don't want people with whooping cough and TB to be around their other patients –– including infants who haven't yet been vaccinated.



 
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:30:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Does it really matter at this point?

Last statistics I read, 12 out of every 10 children born in the U.S. is autistic.


I remember a study done years and years ago showing that autism rates were actually slightly higher among the unvaccinated group than the vaccinated group of people.  Meaning that vaccines had no correlation with who had autism.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:31:12 PM EDT
[#21]
You mean the free market can solve its own problems. OMG!!!!!


People can freely choose not to be vaccinated. No goobermint required.
Doctors can freely choose not to treat them. No goobermint required.


Damn. Too much common sense, somebody is gonna fuck that one up somehow. It will be a race to see who does it first, forcing vaccinations, or forcing treatment.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:32:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
People who are against vaccinations make my head full of fuck


PS, my city has an outbreak of whooping cough.  Any guesses why?


Understood.  We had a measles outbreak in Utah last year, spread by unvaccinated high school kids to other unvaccinated high school kids.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:33:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's a high likely-hood those patients are fucking morons.  Nobody likes dealing with fucking morons.


Exactly.



SO are the vaccines safe then?



There's no such thing as a certainty in medicine.  The word "safe" implies the notion of absolute or 100% reliability.  

Is there a "safe" car?  Is there a "safe" airplane?  Can you be "safe" if you leave your house?  Even though the answer is not 100% to any of those questions, that doesn't mean people should hide under their bed and never leave the house.

If you are looking for an answer, then the reality is that the risks associated with getting a vaccine are far lower than the dangers associated with not getting it.  Plus, if enough people refuse vaccines, then it causes a more serious public policy problem, in that diseases that were effectively eliminated can "come back" into urban areas.  So the vaccine refusing idiots endanger not just their own children, but other people.  

People who refuse vaccines for their children are either
(a) fucking morons
(b) genuinely uninformed or ignorant
(c) cowards


For some it is a religious issue.  Evidently, they are forbidden to engage their God-given ability to think logically.  There are a couple autistic kids in our church, and I think it has scared a few families to not vaccinate. Some fo these people hardly ever see doctors, even for childbirth, so getting vaccinated is out of the question.
to the
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:34:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's a high likely-hood those patients are fucking morons.  Nobody likes dealing with fucking morons.


Exactly.



SO are the vaccines safe then?



There's no such thing as a certainty in medicine.  The word "safe" implies the notion of absolute or 100% reliability.  

Is there a "safe" car?  Is there a "safe" airplane?  Can you be "safe" if you leave your house?  Even though the answer is not 100% to any of those questions, that doesn't mean people should hide under their bed and never leave the house.

If you are looking for an answer, then the reality is that the risks associated with getting a vaccine are far lower than the dangers associated with not getting it.  Plus, if enough people refuse vaccines, then it causes a more serious public policy problem, in that diseases that were effectively eliminated can "come back" into urban areas.  So the vaccine refusing idiots endanger not just their own children, but other people.  

People who refuse vaccines for their children are either
(a) fucking morons
(b) genuinely uninformed or ignorant
(c) cowards

Can I add:
(d) exercising their rights
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:35:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Without too much thought WRT possible unintended consequences, I want to say good for them. Fucking idiotic parents who refuse to vaccinate their children out of some misguided notion that it is unneccessary are putting not only their own children put all of us at risk, especially the elderly, the very young, and others who legitimately cannot be vaccinated. These people are a text book case in the concept of the "free rider problem" that we often look at in the political science world. Herd immunity only works if people vaccinate, and will only protect these idiots children as long as other people make good decisions for their kids. If these dumbasses reach critical mass then we will see some major outbreaks and they'll learn the hard way that there is a risk from not vaccinating your children and it is way bigger and more serious than any minute risk from doing otherwise. Unfortuntately if that occurs we will all suffer greatly.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:35:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
You mean the free market can solve its own problems. OMG!!!!!


People can freely choose not to be vaccinated. No goobermint required.
Doctors can freely choose not to treat them. No goobermint required.


Damn. Too much common sense, somebody is gonna fuck that one up somehow. It will be a race to see who does it first, forcing vaccinations, or forcing treatment.


Both, duh.  Its called Obamacare, HELLO!!
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:36:01 PM EDT
[#27]
My children aren't vaccinated.  Good thing I'm a doctor
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:37:52 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's a high likely-hood those patients are fucking morons.  Nobody likes dealing with fucking morons.


Exactly.



SO are the vaccines safe then?



There's no such thing as a certainty in medicine.  The word "safe" implies the notion of absolute or 100% reliability.  

Is there a "safe" car?  Is there a "safe" airplane?  Can you be "safe" if you leave your house?  Even though the answer is not 100% to any of those questions, that doesn't mean people should hide under their bed and never leave the house.

If you are looking for an answer, then the reality is that the risks associated with getting a vaccine are far lower than the dangers associated with not getting it.  Plus, if enough people refuse vaccines, then it causes a more serious public policy problem, in that diseases that were effectively eliminated can "come back" into urban areas.  So the vaccine refusing idiots endanger not just their own children, but other people.  

People who refuse vaccines for their children are either
(a) fucking morons
(b) genuinely uninformed or ignorant
(c) cowards

Can I add:
(d) exercising their rights


Which come with their own set of consequences.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:38:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does it really matter at this point?

Last statistics I read, 12 out of every 10 children born in the U.S. is autistic.


I remember a study done years and years ago showing that autism rates were actually slightly higher among the unvaccinated group than the vaccinated group of people.  Meaning that vaccines had no correlation with who had autism.

I have a theory: 100 years from now, the entire population of the United States, will...

1) Be autistic. Or...

2) Have ADD. Or...

3) Be lactose intolerant. Or...

4) Have a peanut allergy.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:38:42 PM EDT
[#30]



Quoted:


There's a high likely-hood those patients are fucking morons.  Nobody likes dealing with fucking morons.


Bingo.

 



10% of patients are 90% of the headache in a practice.

Back when insurance paid well, it was worth putting up with crap.

Now?

Not so much.




So that 10% are gonna find themselves friends with the curb more often than with their doc.






Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:39:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's a high likely-hood those patients are fucking morons.  Nobody likes dealing with fucking morons.


Exactly.



SO are the vaccines safe then?



There's no such thing as a certainty in medicine.  The word "safe" implies the notion of absolute or 100% reliability.  

Is there a "safe" car?  Is there a "safe" airplane?  Can you be "safe" if you leave your house?  Even though the answer is not 100% to any of those questions, that doesn't mean people should hide under their bed and never leave the house.

If you are looking for an answer, then the reality is that the risks associated with getting a vaccine are far lower than the dangers associated with not getting it.  Plus, if enough people refuse vaccines, then it causes a more serious public policy problem, in that diseases that were effectively eliminated can "come back" into urban areas.  So the vaccine refusing idiots endanger not just their own children, but other people.  

People who refuse vaccines for their children are either
(a) fucking morons
(b) genuinely uninformed or ignorant
(c) cowards

Can I add:
(d) exercising their rights


You don't have a right to infect others with potentially deadly diseases especially when they are entirely preventable at little to no cost or effort to you. I'm all for allowing people to decilne vaccination if they wish, but if you or your kids become ill with a potentially deadly illness and then pass it on to others due to your own stupidity then you should be held liable, at the very least civilly if not criminally. It most certainly rises to the level of negligence when you're talking about diseases that are almost totally preventably through vaccination.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:40:25 PM EDT
[#32]




Quoted:

Not surprising. Can't say I blame them.




My daughters Ped won't take them either after one family of tards refused "the gov mandated poison" and then their kid got sick overseas and the tard family sued them. Tard family lost of course, but they now will not take the anti-vaccice troofers.



Her preschool on the other hand is run by a hybrid Conervative-Libtard church and they are ok with non vaccinated kids. "We realize vaccinations are not in line with the organic lifestyle and we respect this."







First case of pertussis will change that one.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:40:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's a high likely-hood those patients are fucking morons.  Nobody likes dealing with fucking morons.


Exactly.



SO are the vaccines safe then?



There's no such thing as a certainty in medicine.  The word "safe" implies the notion of absolute or 100% reliability.  

Is there a "safe" car?  Is there a "safe" airplane?  Can you be "safe" if you leave your house?  Even though the answer is not 100% to any of those questions, that doesn't mean people should hide under their bed and never leave the house.

If you are looking for an answer, then the reality is that the risks associated with getting a vaccine are far lower than the dangers associated with not getting it.  Plus, if enough people refuse vaccines, then it causes a more serious public policy problem, in that diseases that were effectively eliminated can "come back" into urban areas.  So the vaccine refusing idiots endanger not just their own children, but other people.  

People who refuse vaccines for their children are either
(a) fucking morons
(b) genuinely uninformed or ignorant
(c) cowards

Can I add:
(d) exercising their rights

Fine. Then homeschool them.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:42:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Then they didn't have a good pediatrician to begin with.  Doctors don't like it when they can't push vaccines and drugs on people, because they lose money.  My kid's pediatrician is completely fine with our delayed-vaccine schedule.  This means our kids get vaccines spread apart instead of all at one time, and don't get about half of the ones most doctors push.  Chickenpox vaccine?  HPV for a 2 month old?  What morons actually agree to this?

These parents need to remember that doctors work for them, not the other way around.  If my doctor tried to push something on me I didn't want, that would be my last appointment and I'd find a better doctor the same day.



Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's a high likely-hood those patients are fucking morons.  Nobody likes dealing with fucking morons.


Exactly.



SO are the vaccines safe then?



There's no such thing as a certainty in medicine.  The word "safe" implies the notion of absolute or 100% reliability.  

Is there a "safe" car?  Is there a "safe" airplane?  Can you be "safe" if you leave your house?  Even though the answer is not 100% to any of those questions, that doesn't mean people should hide under their bed and never leave the house.

If you are looking for an answer, then the reality is that the risks associated with getting a vaccine are far lower than the dangers associated with not getting it.  Plus, if enough people refuse vaccines, then it causes a more serious public policy problem, in that diseases that were effectively eliminated can "come back" into urban areas.  So the vaccine refusing idiots endanger not just their own children, but other people.  

People who refuse vaccines for their children are either
(a) fucking morons
(b) genuinely uninformed or ignorant
(c) cowards

Can I add:
(d) exercising their rights


You don't have a right to infect others with potentially deadly diseases especially when they are entirely preventable at little to no cost or effort to you. I'm all for allowing people to decilne vaccination if they wish, but if you or your kids become ill with a potentially deadly illness and then pass it on to others due to your own stupidity then you should be held liable, at the very least civilly if not criminally. It most certainly rises to the level of negligence when you're talking about diseases that are almost totally preventably through vaccination.


Wait a second...if you and your family are vaccinated, why are you worried about others "infecting" you?  I thought vaccines were supposed to keep you safe.  
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:43:58 PM EDT
[#35]
A major component of that is rising insurance costs. A number of insurers don't particularly like having a client refuse some forms of treatment, and will financially penalize doctors for allowing their patients to opt out.

Personally, I take the perspective that vaccines are for community health first, and individual health second. Some vaccines just make no sense to administer to children due to little possibility of exposure, lack of serious complications with the illness, or side-effects with an individual patient. I'd be rather annoyed with my insurance company if they wanted for force me to vaccinate a neonate or very young child for chicken pox and HPV.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:44:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
People who are against vaccinations make my head full of fuck


PS, my city has an outbreak of whooping cough.  Any guesses why?


Yes. Illegal aliens. Not anti-vaccine folks like you're implying.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:45:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Not surprising. Can't say I blame them.


My daughters Ped won't take them either after one family of tards refused "the gov mandated poison" and then their kid got sick overseas and the tard family sued them. Tard family lost of course, but they now will not take the anti-vaccice troofers.

Her preschool on the other hand is run by a hybrid Conervative-Libtard church and they are ok with non vaccinated kids. "We realize vaccinations are not in line with the organic lifestyle and we respect this."



First case of pertussis will change that one.


How in God's name to they feel justified in suing a doc that reccommended vaccination when their daughter gets sick with the disease to be vaccinated against after they decline?


People live in some sort of fanatasy world I guess. "Derr we're going out of the country, Derp, all those shots people get are nonsense, blah blah blah evil doctors blah. Oh noez my crotch fruit is sick with some third world disease, damn doctorz!!1!"
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:46:48 PM EDT
[#38]




Quoted:



Quoted:

People who are against vaccinations make my head full of fuck





PS, my city has an outbreak of whooping cough. Any guesses why?




Yes. Illegal aliens. Not anti-vaccine folks like you're implying.




Who help spread the diseases unvaccinated illegal aliens bring in.









How fucking stupid are people now?
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:46:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Can I add:
(d) exercising their rights


Sure, their rights to be fucking retarded and to put their children at risk for debilitating or deadly disease for no good reason.

Quoted:
Wait a second...if you and your family are vaccinated, why are you worried about others "infecting" you?  I thought vaccines were supposed to keep you safe.  


Not everyone can get a vaccine because of other complicating medical issues. I'm not worried about getting the whooping cough, but if the infection gets a foothold in a gaggle of anti-vaccine shitfuckers, it could end up killing someone who couldn't be vaccinated.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:48:35 PM EDT
[#40]




Quoted:



Quoted:

Can I add:

(d) exercising their rights




Sure, their rights to be fucking retarded and to put their children at risk for debilitating or deadly disease for no good reason.




And the rest of the public.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:48:36 PM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:48:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Vaccines have never been evaluated in peer-reviewed scientific risk-to-benefit analysis studies.  I used to administer them to other soldiers, and received them as recommended until I learned anatomy & physiology, and the history of vaccines.  From then on, I only got them on paper.  It was at the same time they told us that the Anthrax vaccine series was absolutely worthless, since it was based on an agricultural strain from the Midwest, versus the military-grade Anthrax we had sold to Saddam in the 1980's.  There was a huge push for the Anthrax vaccines in the late 1990's, and early 2000's.  One soldier refused, and filed lawsuit.  We all thought it was just some boat-rocker, but the case brought out the facts, and the Army stopped requiring it.

One of the biggest arguments you hear in favor of vaccines is based on how successful the Salk and Sabin polio vaccines in the 1950's were.  They show a graph of how polio was basically eradicated in the US since the vaccines were introduced.

What they don't show is the rate of polio incidence in the US starting from 1900-the 1950's.  The uncomfortable fact is that the introduction of polio vaccines had absolutely no effect on the rate of polio incidence in the US, since it was already in rapid decline.

What was the reason for polio to be on its way out?  What is the cause of diseases?

In 1907, only 14% of US households had bathtubs.  Bathtubs were a thing of luxury at that time.  Sanitation and waste management were not anywhere near what we have had over the past 60 years.

By the 1950's, almost all households had a bathtub, treated sewage, managed waste, widespread use of toothbrushes and toothpaste, and grocery stores nearby with a vast selection of produce and wholesome foods.

This is why the US has such drastically lower rates of infectious disease, as compared to most of the world.  If you look at tuberculosis, the WHO claims that 1/3 of the entire world is infected with TB.  TB, malaria, and the plague is still rampant in India, Southeast Asia, Africa, Central Asia, and other 3rd World Countries, while these diseases are extremely rare in the US.  Do you think decades of the CDC and WHO administering vaccines to people who live in their own filth has helped them any?

The main factors in preventing disease are:

Sanitation
Nutrition
Daily oral hygiene
Access to hot, clean, running water
Well-managed waste
Shelter

Vaccines have never been shown to provide a benefit over non-vaccinated populations living in the same environments, yet doctors will claim that these studies exist.  Where are they?  Show me some scientific, peer-reviewed studies by researchers who haven't been paid to come to some conclusion by Merck.

Regardless of how you cover down on this issue, you must recognize the volume of money that is involved in the vaccine industry.  We're talking about hundreds of billions of dollars per year.

If you look at the COTS studies that were done by an Australian researcher, with 93 peer-reviewed studies in her profession, the results are alarming.  She partnered up with her husband, a  medical electronics designer, to make devices that would be attached to infant's cribs, to monitor some of their vitals before and after administration of vaccines in infants and toddlers.  This was in response to a growing trend of complaints from parents, and crib deaths.

The results:  A direct link to reduced breathing patterns, lower oxygenation, and actual death was demonstrated during the research.  She took her findings to an international conference in Washington D.C., and her European counterparts said they had noticed the same thing, but didn't know what to do.

Nobody wanted to touch her research with a ten foot pole, and it was refuted by doctors with significant backing and bias towards the vaccine industry.  Instead of discussing the results of her studies, where a clear link was shown between the time of vaccination and significant reduction in breathing rates, they attacked her personally, claiming she wasn't qualified to conduct the studies, that her claims about Japan and vaccinations were wrong, etc.

Nobody said, "Hey.  We can fix this real quick.  Let's just send parents home with cot monitors and see if we can duplicate or refute the results."  No need for personal attacks, or debunking.  Just duplicate the research.  Nope.  

Aside from the mercury and thimerisol that has normally been used to "preserve" the disease agent in a vaccine, how does the disease agent work anyway?  We know that mercury is a neurotoxin, so it should come as no surprise that injury will result from injecting it into infants and children.

But how does the disease agent help you?

Here's the theory behind it.  By introducing a mild form of a virus into you, your immune system will form antibodies to deal with that particular disease agent, and will be better equipped in the future to fight infection of that agent in live form.

With the flu virus, they actually take strains of last year's virus, and hybridize it with a genetically-made strain to fight next year's flu virus, based on the region you live in.

How many of you have gotten the flu vaccine, then noticed that you come down with the flu?  Then what happens?  Are you infectious, or not?  You guessed it:  You're infectious.

So much for eradicating disease.

These are some of the reasons why I am now an opponent of vaccination.  I would have never guessed that I would take this position, but the research I have done and what I know about immuno response doesn't compel me to validate vaccination.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:50:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Vaccines have never been evaluated in peer-reviewed scientific risk-to-benefit analysis studies.  I used to administer them to other soldiers, and received them as recommended until I learned anatomy & physiology, and the history of vaccines.  From then on, I only got them on paper.  It was at the same time they told us that the Anthrax vaccine series was absolutely worthless, since it was based on an agricultural strain from the Midwest, versus the military-grade Anthrax we had sold to Saddam in the 1980's.  There was a huge push for the Anthrax vaccines in the late 1990's, and early 2000's.  One soldier refused, and filed lawsuit.  We all thought it was just some boat-rocker, but the case brought out the facts, and the Army stopped requiring it.

One of the biggest arguments you hear in favor of vaccines is based on how successful the Salk and Sabin polio vaccines in the 1950's were.  They show a graph of how polio was basically eradicated in the US since the vaccines were introduced.

What they don't show is the rate of polio incidence in the US starting from 1900-the 1950's.  The uncomfortable fact is that the introduction of polio vaccines had absolutely no effect on the rate of polio incidence in the US, since it was already in rapid decline.

What was the reason for polio to be on its way out?  What is the cause of diseases?

In 1907, only 14% of US households had bathtubs.  Bathtubs were a thing of luxury at that time.  Sanitation and waste management were not anywhere near what we have had over the past 60 years.

By the 1950's, almost all households had a bathtub, treated sewage, managed waste, widespread use of toothbrushes and toothpaste, and grocery stores nearby with a vast selection of produce and wholesome foods.

This is why the US has such drastically lower rates of infectious disease, as compared to most of the world.  If you look at tuberculosis, the WHO claims that 1/3 of the entire world is infected with TB.  TB, malaria, and the plague is still rampant in India, Southeast Asia, Africa, Central Asia, and other 3rd World Countries, while these diseases are extremely rare in the US.  Do you think decades of the CDC and WHO administering vaccines to people who live in their own filth has helped them any?

The main factors in preventing disease are:

Sanitation
Nutrition
Daily oral hygiene
Access to hot, clean, running water
Well-managed waste
Shelter

Vaccines have never been shown to provide a benefit over non-vaccinated populations living in the same environments, yet doctors will claim that these studies exist.  Where are they?  Show me some scientific, peer-reviewed studies by researchers who haven't been paid to come to some conclusion by Merck.

Regardless of how you cover down on this issue, you must recognize the volume of money that is involved in the vaccine industry.  We're talking about hundreds of billions of dollars per year.

If you look at the COTS studies that were done by an Australian researcher, with 93 peer-reviewed studies in her profession, the results are alarming.  She partnered up with her husband, a  medical electronics designer, to make devices that would be attached to infant's cribs, to monitor some of their vitals before and after administration of vaccines in infants and toddlers.  This was in response to a growing trend of complaints from parents, and crib deaths.

The results:  A direct link to reduced breathing patterns, lower oxygenation, and actual death was demonstrated during the research.  She took her findings to an international conference in Washington D.C., and her European counterparts said they had noticed the same thing, but didn't know what to do.

Nobody wanted to touch her research with a ten foot pole, and it was refuted by doctors with significant backing and bias towards the vaccine industry.  Instead of discussing the results of her studies, where a clear link was shown between the time of vaccination and significant reduction in breathing rates, they attacked her personally, claiming she wasn't qualified to conduct the studies, that her claims about Japan and vaccinations were wrong, etc.

Nobody said, "Hey.  We can fix this real quick.  Let's just send parents home with cot monitors and see if we can duplicate or refute the results."  No need for personal attacks, or debunking.  Just duplicate the research.  Nope.  

Aside from the mercury and thimerisol that has normally been used to "preserve" the disease agent in a vaccine, how does the disease agent work anyway?  We know that mercury is a neurotoxin, so it should come as no surprise that injury will result from injecting it into infants and children.

But how does the disease agent help you?

Here's the theory behind it.  By introducing a mild form of a virus into you, your immune system will form antibodies to deal with that particular disease agent, and will be better equipped in the future to fight infection of that agent in live form.

With the flu virus, they actually take strains of last year's virus, and hybridize it with a genetically-made strain to fight next year's flu virus, based on the region you live in.

How many of you have gotten the flu vaccine, then noticed that you come down with the flu?  Then what happens?  Are you infectious, or not?  You guessed it:  You're infectious.

So much for eradicating disease.

These are some of the reasons why I am now an opponent of vaccination.  I would have never guessed that I would take this position, but the research I have done and what I know about immuno response doesn't compel me to validate vaccination.


Good luck trying to get that through to the sheeple here.  Gov says jump, they ask how high...
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:51:48 PM EDT
[#44]







Quoted:




Vaccines have never been evaluated in peer-reviewed scientific risk-to-benefit analysis studies.
 I used to administer them to other soldiers, and received them as recommended until I learned anatomy & physiology, and the history of vaccines.  From then on, I only got them on paper.  It was at the same time they told us that the Anthrax vaccine series was absolutely worthless, since it was based on an agricultural strain from the Midwest, versus the military-grade Anthrax we had sold to Saddam in the 1980's.  There was a huge push for the Anthrax vaccines in the late 1990's, and early 2000's.  One soldier refused, and filed lawsuit.  We all thought it was just some boat-rocker, but the case brought out the facts, and the Army stopped requiring it.
One of the biggest arguments you hear in favor of vaccines is based on how successful the Salk and Sabin polio vaccines in the 1950's were.  They show a graph of how polio was basically eradicated in the US since the vaccines were introduced.
What they don't show is the rate of polio incidence in the US starting from 1900-the 1950's.  The uncomfortable fact is that the introduction of polio vaccines had absolutely no effect on the rate of polio incidence in the US, since it was already in rapid decline.
What was the reason for polio to be on its way out?  What is the cause of diseases?
In 1907, only 14% of US households had bathtubs.  Bathtubs were a thing of luxury at that time.  Sanitation and waste management were not anywhere near what we have had over the past 60 years.
By the 1950's, almost all households had a bathtub, treated sewage, managed waste, widespread use of toothbrushes and toothpaste, and grocery stores nearby with a vast selection of produce and wholesome foods.
This is why the US has such drastically lower rates of infectious disease, as compared to most of the world.  If you look at tuberculosis, the WHO claims that 1/3 of the entire world is infected with TB.  TB, malaria, and the plague is still rampant in India, Southeast Asia, Africa, Central Asia, and other 3rd World Countries, while these diseases are extremely rare in the US.  Do you think decades of the CDC and WHO administering vaccines to people who live in their own filth has helped them any?
The main factors in preventing disease are:
Sanitation



Nutrition



Daily oral hygiene



Access to hot, clean, running water



Well-managed waste



Shelter
Vaccines have never been shown to provide a benefit over non-vaccinated populations living in the same environments, yet doctors will claim that these studies exist.  Where are they?  Show me some scientific, peer-reviewed studies by researchers who haven't been paid to come to some conclusion by Merck.
Regardless of how you cover down on this issue, you must recognize the volume of money that is involved in the vaccine industry.  We're talking about hundreds of billions of dollars per year.
If you look at the COTS studies that were done by an Australian researcher, with 93 peer-reviewed studies in her profession, the results are alarming.  She partnered up with her husband, a  medical electronics designer, to make devices that would be attached to infant's cribs, to monitor some of their vitals before and after administration of vaccines in infants and toddlers.  This was in response to a growing trend of complaints from parents, and crib deaths.
The results:  A direct link to reduced breathing patterns, lower oxygenation, and actual death was demonstrated during the research.  She took her findings to an international conference in Washington D.C., and her European counterparts said they had noticed the same thing, but didn't know what to do.
Nobody wanted to touch her research with a ten foot pole, and it was refuted by doctors with significant backing and bias towards the vaccine industry.  Instead of discussing the results of her studies, where a clear link was shown between the time of vaccination and significant reduction in breathing rates, they attacked her personally, claiming she wasn't qualified to conduct the studies, that her claims about Japan and vaccinations were wrong, etc.
Nobody said, "Hey.  We can fix this real quick.  Let's just send parents home with cot monitors and see if we can duplicate or refute the results."  No need for personal attacks, or debunking.  Just duplicate the research.  Nope.  
Aside from the mercury and thimerisol that has normally been used to "preserve" the disease agent in a vaccine, how does the disease agent work anyway?  We know that mercury is a neurotoxin, so it should come as no surprise that injury will result from injecting it into infants and children.
But how does the disease agent help you?
Here's the theory behind it.  By introducing a mild form of a virus into you, your immune system will form antibodies to deal with that particular disease agent, and will be better equipped in the future to fight infection of that agent in live form.
With the flu virus, they actually take strains of last year's virus, and hybridize it with a genetically-made strain to fight next year's flu virus, based on the region you live in.
How many of you have gotten the flu vaccine, then noticed that you come down with the flu?  Then what happens?  Are you infectious, or not?  You guessed it:  You're infectious.
So much for eradicating disease.
These are some of the reasons why I am now an opponent of vaccination.  I would have never guessed that I would take this position, but the research I have done and what I know about immuno response doesn't compel me to validate vaccination.







So, how much polio and smallpox have you seen lately?

 









Or, to be a bit more modern, how many cases of epiglottis in kids since the HIB vaccince became widespread?

Or how about Hep B?







 
 
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:51:55 PM EDT
[#45]




Quoted:

*derp*





Look, a troofer has joined us. Got anymore, FUD, half truths and lies?



Back up everything you just said with legitimate citation.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:52:28 PM EDT
[#46]
Meh, free market at work.
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:52:30 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Good luck trying to get that through to the sheeple here.  Gov says jump, they ask how high...


Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:54:19 PM EDT
[#48]
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:55:27 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's a high likely-hood those patients are fucking morons.  Nobody likes dealing with fucking morons.


Exactly.



SO are the vaccines safe then?



There's no such thing as a certainty in medicine.  The word "safe" implies the notion of absolute or 100% reliability.  

Is there a "safe" car?  Is there a "safe" airplane?  Can you be "safe" if you leave your house?  Even though the answer is not 100% to any of those questions, that doesn't mean people should hide under their bed and never leave the house.

If you are looking for an answer, then the reality is that the risks associated with getting a vaccine are far lower than the dangers associated with not getting it.  Plus, if enough people refuse vaccines, then it causes a more serious public policy problem, in that diseases that were effectively eliminated can "come back" into urban areas.  So the vaccine refusing idiots endanger not just their own children, but other people.  

People who refuse vaccines for their children are either
(a) fucking morons
(b) genuinely uninformed or ignorant
(c) cowards

Can I add:
(d) exercising their rights

Fine. Then homeschool them.

Give me my tax credit and I would, or put them in a private school.
Besides didn't you hear, Obama is requiring kids stay in school until they are 18.
(I'll just be quit while I eat my sack lunch and you eat your 3 chicken nuggets.)
Link Posted: 2/15/2012 2:55:30 PM EDT
[#50]
The lack of vaccinations implicates costs to society as well, it may seem like a personal decision, but there are astronomical social costs, monetary and otherwise, involved in treating a serious illness or following the death of a child.  Taxes subsidize healthcare and education.  Just like the guy who doesn't wear a helmet, there are no personal deaths anymore.  Their stupidity affects us all, even if it just ruins my day because I have to pick up little pieces of brain and pronounce a 22 yr old dead on the side of the road.
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