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Posted: 7/31/2002 12:58:36 AM EST
Two Killed After Vehicle Crashes in Chicago Reuters CHICAGO - A rental van crashed into the front steps of a house in Chicago on Tuesday injuring three people, and witnesses said angry bystanders then attacked and beat two occupants of the vehicle, both of whom were later pronounced dead at a hospital. Chicago police said it was not clear how the occupants of the panel truck died but a spokeswoman said both "were accosted by some of the witnesses" and an investigation was continuing. One resident of the area told a Chicago television station that the men were beaten with bricks and other objects. Three women who were injured when the truck hit them were taken to hospitals and one of them was reported in critical condition. The other two were not believed to have been seriously hurt. ------------------ Be careful driving in that neighborhood
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 1:02:56 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 1:46:22 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 2:01:31 AM EST by SeaDweller]
Too bad they apparently didn't have the means to defend themselves. Probably crashed in a bad area. Housing projects perhaps? No suspects mentioned.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 1:46:40 AM EST
Just another reason to stay out of Chicago----as if I needed another reason [;D]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 3:24:17 AM EST
Its on the south side, or maybe the west side???? Anyways, its a bunch of color folks that did this. Most out that way are animials. c-rock
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 3:51:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By c-rock: Its on the south side, or maybe the west side???? Anyways, its a bunch of color folks that did this. Most out that way are animials. c-rock
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Here comes CavVet.......
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 3:56:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By c-rock: Its on the south side, or maybe the west side???? Anyways, its a bunch of color folks that did this. Most out that way are animials. c-rock
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That is pretty well an asinine statement....
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 4:01:41 AM EST
it did happen on the south side. [url]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/showcase/chi-0207310332jul31.story?coll=chi%2Dnews%2Dhed[/url]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 4:07:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 4:09:30 AM EST by c-rock]
I knew someone was going to say that. [BD] Anyways, when you go thru that area (South and West) of Chicago, and see bars on the windows on the street level, porch door looks like one from a jail cell, and around the house is a black metal fence, you begin to think they are animals, living all caged up like that.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 4:32:31 AM EST
Then why oh why post something so silly. Now if you were to say that it happened in the South side ( where I once went to after a wrong turn.....try that with Canadian Plates) and that the PEOPLE who lived that were for the most part living like animals you might be correct. If you were to say that the inner city slum culture created people who acted like animals I would not have a problem. However you insinuated that their actions were based only on their colour. There are white, yellow, red, and brown areas of the USA that I am certain could result in similar actions on the part of bystanders. Now I am however curious if they will get charged with a hate crime. For I am certain that if they drivers had been the same colour they would not have been killed.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 4:34:42 AM EST
When I first read this story, I wondered if this might lead to race rioting on the south side. So I went looking for some mention of the race of the victims and the perpetrators. But not a single news organization reporting this story includes those details. By that very fact I suspect that the beating victims were white and the perpetrators black. I mean, we [b]know[/b] that if a white mob beat a couple of black guys, most, if not all, of the headlines would reflect that fact (as in "White Officer Brutalizes Black Youth"). And I suspect that if it was white-on-white violence, at least some of the reporters would mention that as unusual, given that most inner-city neighborhoods are largely made up of minorities. I don't consider myself naive by any measure, but I still marvel at the audacity of the media to display such blatant bias in cases like this. -kill-9
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 4:49:08 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 4:56:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 4:58:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 4:59:39 AM EST by Spearweasel]
Yech. I lived about ten blocks straight south of there for a year. I dunno if that's one of those areas where the cops don't go, (I think those are more to the west towards the interstate), but it's still a rough place. If I wrecked a van there, I guarantee you I'd hobble my busted ass out as fast as my broken legs could carry me. Even if I was black, I still wouldn't hang around and wait for the locals to do their business.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:00:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By kill-9: When I first read this story, I wondered if this might lead to race rioting on the south side. So I went looking for some mention of the race of the victims and the perpetrators. But not a single news organization reporting this story includes those details. By that very fact I suspect that the beating victims were white and the perpetrators black. I mean, we [b]know[/b] that if a white mob beat a couple of black guys, most, if not all, of the headlines would reflect that fact (as in "White Officer Brutalizes Black Youth"). And I suspect that if it was white-on-white violence, at least some of the reporters would mention that as unusual, given that most inner-city neighborhoods are largely made up of minorities. I don't consider myself naive by any measure, but I still marvel at the audacity of the media to display such blatant bias in cases like this. -kill-9
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Very sad...but most likely true. Fox News will probably carry this and ID the parties involved. These murders are most likely what the media likes to call a "hate crime". On the other hand, they damn sure won't call this one if it involves blacks beating white boys, Latinos or Koreans to death! Forget about hearing it on the major networks if that’s the case. Remember the relative coverage the media gave the murders of the gay college kid, Matthew Sheppard and Jesse Dirkhising, the 13 year old raped and murdered by the two gay pervs? Sheppard's case became a page one, above the fold, news at eleven, cause celeb. Hollywood even made a movie about it! Dirkhising’s case disappeared faster than a buck in a whore house. Its all about victim groups as defined by the liberals. c-rock…you are out of line. You might want to consider retracting that silly thread. This is gonna get locked soon…
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:00:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By Stormbringer: Now if you were to say that it happened in the South side ( where I once went to after a wrong turn.....try that with Canadian Plates) and that the PEOPLE who lived that were for the most part living like animals you might be correct. If you were to say that the inner city slum culture created people who acted like animals I would not have a problem. However you insinuated that their actions were based only on their colour.
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The area they are talking about is a colored area. If you dont match the neighborhood, even the police at night will pull you over and ask you what you are doing here. Then pull you out, and check ya for Drugs. The bad parts of chicago are in the Black and Hispanic areas of towns. I am just stating facts, that's all. This ain't a PC board, and I dont follow PC talk either. Animals are animals, and if I was driving my ride in there, I would be packin, and not worry about some stupid laws the city has. This shows you what does on around here, from people being found dead in Alley's, in the back of burning cars, to people getting beat to death with bricks.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:03:36 AM EST
Most, though not all, black crime is against other blacks. That is one reason I do not understand why they tolerate crime in their culture. I have discussed it with some of my black friends and they wonder as well. The media bias is apparent and disgusting. I certainly hope those guilty are brought to justice but have my doubts. I will be waiting for the outrage against a mob of murderous thugs doing such a thing but am not holding my breath! I am sure we all feel strongly about this; I am no exception. However, be careful to not let a legitamate discussion degenerate into racism!!
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:17:22 AM EST
One resident of the area told a Chicago television station that the men were beaten with bricks and other objects.
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I guess Mayor Daly will introduce an "Assault Brick Ban" law now. [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:21:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 5:24:27 AM EST by Stormbringer]
c-rock.....I am by no means PC. I am considered by most to be the antithesis of PC. Which as a Canadian I now understand does not carry as much weight as UnPC American. That the areas in question in Chicago are peopled mainly by Blacks and Hispanics is not in doubt at all. The point I am trying to make is that it is not due to their BLACKNESS or Spanishness that they have the problems that they do. It is their culture ( or lack thereof). Inner city slums breed in many cases to the lowest common denominator. This has nothing to do with race. There are Blacks and Hispanics that are contributing members of society to be applauded. How would you like it if someone were to start saying that its those damned White Trailer trash?? That they were trailer trash just because they were white?? No they are Trailer trash simply because for what ever reason they have embraced what I consider to be an inferior culture. In my city in Canada we have a problem with Vietnamese gangs. Do I think that it is their Vietnamishness (is that a word??) that causes them to be criminal scum?? NO!! Their problem is that they have taken on a subset of normal vietnamese culture one that enshrines bad ideals. The NORMAL Vietnamese culture would revile their actions........None of this is based upon race what so ever. Face it Dirtbags come is a full range of colours...
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:22:28 AM EST
Originally Posted By c-rock: The bad parts of chicago are in the Black and Hispanic areas of towns.
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Unless you happen to be that black boy on a bicycle who was beaten to death by an Irish mob in 1996 for being caught on the wrong street after dark... then I guess you'd include the white parts of town too. Personally, I try to avoid anything north of, say, the Red River? [;)]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:13:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 6:14:14 AM EST by Nimrod1193]
Originally Posted By c-rock: Anyways, its a bunch of color folks that did this. Most out that way are animials.
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Originally Posted By c-rock: The bad parts of chicago are in the Black and Hispanic areas of towns.
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This has been a test of the knuckle-dragging, inbred, shallow end of the gene pool racist detection system. If this had been an actual knuckle-dragging, inbred, shallow end of the gene pool racist, there would be....hmmm. I guess this wasn't a test after all.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:17:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:
Originally Posted By c-rock: Anyways, its a bunch of color folks that did this. Most out that way are animials.
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Originally Posted By c-rock: The bad parts of chicago are in the Black and Hispanic areas of towns.
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This has been a test of the knuckle-dragging, inbred, shallow end of the gene pool racist detection system. If this had been an actual knuckle-dragging, inbred, shallow end of the gene pool racist, there would be....hmmm. I guess this wasn't a test after all.
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Hey, I am a equal oppertunity hater. I hate all equally. [BD] c-rock
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:19:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By Spearweasel: [ Unless you happen to be that black boy on a bicycle who was beaten to death by an Irish mob in 1996 for being caught on the wrong street after dark... then I guess you'd include the white parts of town too. Personally, I try to avoid anything north of, say, the Red River? [;)]
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Actually, the part he was beaten in was not a bad part of town. That part is bridgeport I believe, where the mayor was born, and where he lives. If not there, his mom still lives there. c-rock
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:22:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By c-rock:
Originally Posted By Spearweasel: [ Unless you happen to be that black boy on a bicycle who was beaten to death by an Irish mob in 1996 for being caught on the wrong street after dark... then I guess you'd include the white parts of town too. Personally, I try to avoid anything north of, say, the Red River? [;)]
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Actually, the part he was beaten in was not a bad part of town. That part is bridgeport I believe, where the mayor was born, and where he lives. If not there, his mom still lives there. c-rock
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Hmm... Child beaten to death by mob = bad part of town. I don't care what the property values are.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:25:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By Stormbringer: However you insinuated that their actions were based only on their colour. ...For I am certain that if they drivers had been the same colour they would not have been killed....
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I would bet money they were all of the same ethnicity. On the south side, I would also bet that color WAS involved..... like the "victims" were flying red in a blue neighborhood.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:25:56 AM EST
Yo, Stormbringer, apologist, your a blooming idiot.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:27:25 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:29:27 AM EST
Child beaten to death by mob = bad part of town. I don't care what the property values are.
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Actually, it was a bunch of kids that did that. Or teenagers. I forget. Anyways, Chicago is a racist town, what can I say? It has lots of gun control, and it still has everyone live in their own areas. You all can call me what you want, doesnt matter. I call it like I see it. If people are willing to beat old men with Bricks, then they are animals. c-rock
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:36:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 6:59:14 AM EST by Stormbringer]
Originally Posted By DSA_Brat: Yo, Stormbringer, apologist, your a blooming idiot.
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Apologist??/ Me/???? From the likes of you I will take that as a compliment... Just how did you manage to make it this far in life with such a limited world view?? Edited to add.... I may have miss understood your post.. I checked my translation software which was set to Trailer trash > English. This is the result. "You, Stormbringer as an apologist are a blooming idiot." If this is not what you intended to say, please try to reformat your post. Either that or perhaps mommy or daddy can help you. Oh I almost forgot....one of my personal tests that I use to determine if an INDIVIDUAL is a member of a less than desireable culture is whether or not they use the term "Yo" or "Homie"" . I would like to personally thank you for your assistance in proving my theoretical testing methods.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:37:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:43:06 AM EST
No offense meant to any of our black members here,but when was the last time that a white mob killed a person of color for an accident ? And what was the sentence of the rioters that tried to kill Reginald Deny in LA. It probably looked like a scene from black hawk down when the snipers protecting crash site # two were running out of ammo. If people want to act like animals then they should be treated like animals no matter what color they are.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:48:14 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:12:59 AM EST
To me these AFRICAN-americans are no different than the murdering thugs of Ruwanda. Where in 1994 alone they killed around 1 million people (blacks killing blacks). Most were killed in like fashion as these two Chicago men with rocks, bricks, spears etc.. I "pity the fool" whose car breaks down on the south side of Chicago.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:18:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 7:23:08 AM EST by Stormbringer]
Ya RIGHT ON BROTHER!! Just like those animals in the former Yugoslavia who set up camps to kill any not of their race/culture/religion!! Just like those Aryans in Germany who killed MILLIONS based on race/culture/religion!! Oh....ummmm...check that....they were all whites so it must have been ok.????[whacko] SPREAD THE WORD!!!
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:30:11 AM EST
WOA! HOLD ON FOR A MINUTE! Anybody find out why the van occupants were beat to death? Maybe they were drunk or stoned and crashed into those people. You can bet your ass if they were drunk and crashed into my family I would kill them too. Don't get me wrong.I aint taking up for some POS that goes tribal any chance they get and start looting and burning. I'm saying that sometimes assholes need killing.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:33:23 AM EST
From the age of the one guy I was sort of betting on the 62 year old being the driver and suffering a heart attack. This could explain the gas pedal being pushed to the floor along with a loss of control.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:42:39 AM EST
[b]Whew!!![/b] When I first saw this thread, I thought it said [b]'Mod beats 2 to death'[/b] and boy was my mind racing to figure out which Moderator might have beaten which two members to death! My first thought was [b]DonR[/b], but then I remembered that he was [u]Senior[/u] [u]Staff[/u]! [:D] Eric The(WatchItFolks,YouDon'tWantMeToGetDownright­MediaevalOnYo'Azz!)Hun[>]:)]
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 7:59:43 AM EST
I live in the burbs, west of chicago,where about 4 percent of the population is black. They are part of the community and have nothing to fear from the white majority. But if I happen to drive into a predominately black area, in the city, I fear for my life, with good reason. This contradiction, along with a black on white crime ratio that's several times higher than white on black crime, and a constant media and black leader barrage on how all whites are racist, make it very difficult to maintain a proper perspective.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:00:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By Paul: Yupp, typical white men, they're all the same - trailer trash.
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LOL....Outstanding.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:19:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:
Originally Posted By c-rock: Anyways, its a bunch of color folks that did this. Most out that way are animials.
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This has been a test of the knuckle-dragging, inbred, shallow end of the gene pool racist detection system. If this had been an actual knuckle-dragging, inbred, shallow end of the gene pool racist, there would be....hmmm. I guess this wasn't a test after all.
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HAHAHA! Nope, I guess not. Too bad.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:23:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By Crookshanks: I live in the burbs, west of chicago,where about 4 percent of the population is black. They are part of the community and have nothing to fear from the white majority. But if I happen to drive into a predominately black area, in the city, I fear for my life, with good reason. This contradiction, along with a black on white crime ratio that's several times higher than white on black crime, and a constant media and black leader barrage on how all whites are racist, make it very difficult to maintain a proper perspective.
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I am glad someone is from around here that is tellin it like it is. you dont go into black hood's at night, its not good for your health. c-rock
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 8:49:10 AM EST
I live in a "black hood" and my health is fine. In fact, I lived through outright riotous, civil unrest and was fine. No, it isn't sterile, pristine suburbia where the facade of neatly manicured lawns and freshly painted shutters provide smokescreen cover for all manner of crimes and moral turpitude. The ghetto is stark and in your face. Nothing hides behind the BS facade of "middle income vanilla". Domestic violence is in the middle of the street. Assault is out in the open on the sidewalk. Aggressors and enemies are easily identified because they come at you with violent force. There's no question about where you stand. I would rather know my enemy in that way than try to figure out which bleached blonde, slightly overweight, tacky dressing, John Tesh listening soccer mom in the PTA meeting with her freshly manicured nails and Starbucks Kenyan Blend is going to vote to ban gun ownership.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 9:54:58 AM EST
Gee maybe we should just have a race war and see who wins,wanna bet on the outcome anyone? Yes it would be over in short order and no i don't want to see it happen,but if it does kick off ,I like many here will be shooting. And davis derringers and sat. specials ain't gonna cut it.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 10:21:19 AM EST
Luckily no one had any firearms or someone could've been hurt.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 4:43:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 4:45:13 PM EST by Fingers]
This was on the local news in Detroit this morning. I actually just caught a bit of it but they were interviewing some of the witnesses and it was in a very Black neighborhood. They never mentioned the color of the victims that were beaten to death by the black mob. I thought that was a little peculiar, not that it makes it any more wrong but in that these days race always seems to come up. I know it would have been mentioned and national headline news if it had been a white mob on black victims. There is no question that there are evil people among all the races. It just annoys me that certain races seem to take less heat for their attrocities than other races do.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:03:58 PM EST
10:30 PM, Friday, July 17th, 1992 1986 Corvette, Red Accidental exit off of I-94 into South Chicago as I was trying to get downtown. Tons of traffic going very slow. Lots of rap music from many different vehicles. Many people on the sidewalks, lots of drug deals going on (I think). Took me about 1/2 hour to get back on the freeway. I got more "thumbs up" than bad looks from people, but that 1/2 hour took about 10 years off my life. I have never been so scared. 3 Months ago I took a side trip through Gary, IN, about 9am on a Sunday morning. I drove all over the place, checking-out places where one would NEVER go on a warm evening. I had a blast!
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:20:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By eswanson: Of course, when was the last time a group of blacks chained a white guy to the bumper of a truck and dragged him to death?
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There was a little old white woman who was dragged to death in the same manner by a black the next day not far from where those two idiots killed that black guy in Texas. If you want to get anal retentive about it, I will look it up with a web search. There was also a black guy who was paroled and the next day he jacked a car at a convienience store that had a running engine. Inside was a little white boy. The mother tried to get her kid out and kept begging him to stop but he didn't give a damn. he went screaming down the road and onto the highway with the kid caught in his retraints bouncing along the highway behind him. Several citizens, not content to be good citizens and wait for the cops, forced him off the road. By that time it was too late. They covered the kid, but there wasn't much to cover. This was also in that general time frame.
Or beat a gay college student to death and tied him to a fence?
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They aren't that artistic, and those boys who killed Sheppard did so by accident, not on purpose. The blacks usually just beat the "punk asses" to death. It happens quite often in New Orleans. In the third world, especially in the Carribean, it can lead to necklacing. Necklacing is putting a tire or an innertube around a freshly beaten man's neck, dousing it with gas, and then igniting it.The queers in N.O. know where not to go. The ones in the Carribean know to not let it show. I treated a few in the ED on Curacao and in Oakland, CA at Alameda. Blacks are worse than whites when it comes to violent crime. It is simply a fact, and it is worldwide.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:25:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By BenDover: The ghetto is stark and in your face. Nothing hides behind the BS facade of "middle income vanilla". Domestic violence is in the middle of the street. Assault is out in the open on the sidewalk. Aggressors and enemies are easily identified because they come at you with violent force. There's no question about where you stand.
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Yeah. On enemy soil.
I would rather know my enemy in that way than try to figure out which bleached blonde, slightly overweight, tacky dressing, John Tesh listening soccer mom in the PTA meeting with her freshly manicured nails and Starbucks Kenyan Blend is going to vote to ban gun ownership.
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I would rather know my enemy so that, once identified, I can move the hell away from him and live peacefully and without fear. But then I am no tough guy, I like my truck unstolen and undamaged, and I don't want to HAVE to carry.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 5:34:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 5:36:41 PM EST by BenDover]
Originally Posted By poikilotrm: Yeah. On enemy soil.
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How so? Blacks are not my enemy. Ignorant people, wherever they are, whomever they are, whatever color/ethnicity/race/creed/religion/sexual orientation they may be, are my enemy.
I would rather know my enemy so that, once identified, I can move the hell away from him and live peacefully and without fear. But then I am no tough guy, I like my truck unstolen and undamaged, and I don't want to HAVE to carry.
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Then you better flee the suburbs. The true enemy consists of ignorant, emotionally-driven, wingnut moms who swallow every putrid drop of liberal vomit spewed forth from the likes of Oprah, Rosie, et al. They will be the first ones in line to strip you of your RKBA, and they will be the first ones to demand something be done when they realize they live in a totalitarian state where their imagined utopia only exists in their feeble imaginations. EDITED TO ADD: FYI... Even through total chaos during a week of riots when the streets were full of violence and fire, we have never personally experienced a single problem like vandalism or theft.... well not totally true.. they stole my smoker grill but that's because it wasn't chained to the tree like it should have been. It did sit there for a year before it disappeared though. I never liked that grill much anyway.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:37:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2002 6:42:05 PM EST by poikilotrm]
Originally Posted By BenDover:
Originally Posted By poikilotrm: Yeah. On enemy soil.
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How so? Blacks are not my enemy. Ignorant people, wherever they are, whomever they are, whatever color/ethnicity/race/creed/religion/sexual orientation they may be, are my enemy.
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Who said anything about blacks? Freudian slip? Did you just assume? That speaks volumes about your own mindset here.
Then you better flee the suburbs. The true enemy consists of ignorant, emotionally-driven, wingnut moms who swallow every putrid drop of liberal vomit spewed forth from the likes of Oprah, Rosie, et al. They will be the first ones in line to strip you of your RKBA, and they will be the first ones to demand something be done when they realize they live in a totalitarian state where their imagined utopia only exists in their feeble imaginations.
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Uh yeah dude. The real danger to my health and wellbeing comes from weight obsessed white women, not from some Colin Ferguson wannabe or the next set of Zebra murders types. Crackheads with carpet knives creeping up to me at the ATM? Ha! I fart in their general direction! It is the scrawny chick with the Volvo who really wants to hurt me for no reason whatsoever.
EDITED TO ADD: FYI... Even through total chaos during a week of riots when the streets were full of violence and fire, we have never personally experienced a single problem like vandalism or theft.... well not totally true.. they stole my smoker grill but that's because it wasn't chained to the tree like it should have been. It did sit there for a year before it disappeared though. I never liked that grill much anyway.
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Gosh. I guess you are so lucky then. That you got robbed. I am real envious. Unfortunately I am still burdened with all the stuff I worked hard to acquire, but I am hoping some scumbag will steal my vehicle real soon because it needs a wash and an oil change, and I hate to do that stuff. Chaos and fire huh? Darn! We never get that stuff in Fairfield, CT! Well, a little. Last week at the bar-B-Q next door one of the guys put too much lighter fluid on the charcoal. And then we ran low on beer, but couldn't get one of the sober womenfolk to go get more, so I had to walk to the corner store. Fire and chaos. The horror, the horror.
Link Posted: 7/31/2002 6:52:18 PM EST
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