There seems to be a great deal of confusion here about some aspects of the Marine Corps. Much of it is being spread by members of other services who, frankly, don't know what they are talking about. The information here is based on fact, and not petty jealousy or internet rumor.

1.  The U.S. Marine Corps is NOT a part of the Navy. Not in any way. Unlike the Air Force, which was once part of the Army, the Marine Corps has NEVER been a part of the Navy. In the beginning, Marines were stationed on ships. The reason for this should be readily apparent to anyone with common sense. The word Marine indicates a connection to the water. Ships are where you want to be if you are doing an amphibious landing or fighting on the water.

The Marine Corps was formed by the Continental Congress in 1775. It has been under the command of the Commandant of the Marine Corps for the entire time.

Today's Marine Corps is still run by the CMC, who reports to the Secretary of the Navy (a civilian, not a member of the Navy).

If the Marine Corps were a "department of the Navy", it would be under Navy control. The Commandant of the Marine Corps would be subordinate to the Chief of Naval Operations. This is not the case. The CMC is a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, as are the heads of the other branches. In fact, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is also a Marine. If the Marine Corps were a part of the Navy, how could the CNO be outranked by Marines?

2.  The Marine Corps does NOT get "all the crap the Army throws away".

Here are a few examples of things that the Army doesn't have, much less get rid of:

MTVR 7-ton trucks
AAV/P-7 Amtrak
LAV-25-The Army has these now to, the Stryker-The Marine Corps has been using LAVs for well over a decade
F/A-18s
Harriers
CH-53s

Here are a few examples of things the Marine Corps developed, or fielded first:
M-16A2s
M-16A4s
M-14 DMRs
M-240 MGs
MOLLE gear
Digitized camo (to be fair though, the Canadians had this first)
Interceptor body armor

The list goes on and on.

The fact is that the United States Marine Corps is well established in the process of obtaining our own gear and developing gear when none already exists.

Name one thing that the Marine Corps gets from the Army, used or otherwise.


ETA: It has been well established that this post was poorly written and excessivly inflammatory. I am not going to edit it as it has been quoted several times in the seven pages that the thread has currently run.

If you just finished reading it and want to call me an asshat, have at it, but a number of others have beaten you to it. Judging by this post, they were right.

Anyway. Here is a rundown of the point I was trying to get across.

The Marine Corps is a part of the Department of the Navy, not a part of the actual branch.

The Marine Corps takes advantage of the opportunity to get stuff from other services, but does not rely on equipment that other services have cast off.

I am not attempting to bash any other service, nor am I attempting to say that the Marine Corps does not get training or support from anyone else.

Then why do USMC paychecks say "Dept of Navy" on them and not USMC?

Oh, the Secretary of the Army, is a "civilian" too. So is the Secretary of Defense.

When the USMC report to the Scretary of the Marine Corps, who is one step below the Sec-Def, your arguement would make sense.

But the USMC is under the Secretary of the Navy................................

Feeling a little insecure?

To answer the question,   Let's just use my personal experiences as an example.  

Vehicles
Ranges/Training areas
Barracks
Garrison Support  (everything from the ID cards to linen)
Medical and dental
Depot level maint on everything from rifles to radios.
Training staff
Provost Marshall services
Commisary/Ammo/POL/ support
Intel
I personally have seen, (and in some cases arranged) the above for Marine units both active and reserve.

Don't feel bad, the Army does it for the Air Force and Navy too.

The reverse isn't necessarily true.  The only thing I've ever gotten from the Marine corps is the OVM they stole.

Quoted: 2.  The Marine Corps does NOT get "all the crap the Army throws away".

I know that for a while the Marine Corps was much more willing to overlook "youthful indiscretions" than the other branches of the service, so they certainly got some marines whom the Army didn't want...

Quoted: Then why do USMC paychecks say "Dept of Navy" on them and not USMC? Oh, the Secretary of the Army, is a "civilian" too. So is the Secretary of Defense. When the USMC report to the Scretary of the Marine Corps, who is one step below the Sec-Def, your arguement would make sense. But the USMC is under the Secretary of the Navy................................

My paychecks said DFAS Kansas City, never had "Navy" anywhere on them.

Quoted: The U.S. Marine Corps is NOT a part of the Navy. Not in any way.

If you say so....

Quoted: Name one thing that the Marine Corps gets from the Army, used or otherwise.

The following were Army equipment adopted by the USMC:

M16A1, the A2 was NOT a USMC program
M113
M1 tank
K pots

I could go on, should I?

You all can argue about the original post all you want, there is one FACT about the Marine Corps though -

A Marine is 10 times the fighting man than a Soldier is.

Quoted: Quoted: The U.S. Marine Corps is NOT a part of the Navy. Not in any way. www.edwards.af.mil/archive/2004/images/usmc_logo_sm.jpg If you say so....

DANG!!  That had to sting.  

Quoted: A Marine is 10 times the fighting man than a Soldier is.

Yeah, and about 1,000,000 times as cluelessly arrogant.

Quoted: Then why do USMC paychecks say "Dept of Navy" on them and not USMC? Oh, the Secretary of the Army, is a "civilian" too. So is the Secretary of Defense. When the USMC report to the Scretary of the Marine Corps, who is one step below the Sec-Def, your arguement would make sense. But the USMC is under the Secretary of the Navy................................

In 7 years I have never gotten a hard copy of a paycheck from any branch. The checks I have seen say DFAS.

Quoted: You all can argue about the original post all you want, there is one FACT about the Marine Corps though - A Marine is 10 times the fighting man than a Soldier is.

Gaddamit,  now I've got to dig in the garage for the hip waders.  Couldn't you at least wait until page 3?

Quoted: Quoted: You all can argue about the original post all you want, there is one FACT about the Marine Corps though - A Marine is 10 times the fighting man than a Soldier is. Gaddamit,  now I've got to dig in the garage for the hip waders.  Couldn't you at least wait until page 3?

Quoted: You all can argue about the original post all you want, there is one FACT about the Marine Corps though - A Marine is 10 times the fighting man than a Soldier is.

Quoted: Quoted: 2.  The Marine Corps does NOT get "all the crap the Army throws away". I know that for a while the Marine Corps was much more willing to overlook "youthful indiscretions" than the other branches of the service, so they certainly got some marines whom the Army didn't want...

The Corps' recruits meet higher standards of test scores and education than that of the Army.

Quoted: Quoted: A Marine is 10 times the fighting man than a Soldier is. Yeah, and about 1,000,000 times as cluelessly arrogant.

The truth hurts

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The U.S. Marine Corps is NOT a part of the Navy. Not in any way. www.edwards.af.mil/archive/2004/images/usmc_logo_sm.jpg If you say so.... DANG!!  That had to sting.

Not even a little bit.

www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/organization/org-sec.html

Note the CMC and the CNO equally reporting to the SecNav.

Here's a direct quote from the site: "The Department of the Navy consists of two uniformed Services: the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps."
Again, note the direct statement that there are two services under the Department of the Navy.

Quoted: Quoted: The U.S. Marine Corps is NOT a part of the Navy. Not in any way. If you say so....

POwned.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The U.S. Marine Corps is NOT a part of the Navy. Not in any way. www.edwards.af.mil/archive/2004/images/usmc_logo_sm.jpg If you say so.... DANG!!  That had to sting.

 OUCH!

Quoted: A Marine is 10 times the fighting man than a Soldier is.

Reminds me of a funny story.


I was in an airport a few years ago, and there was a little kid running around like he'd just freebased caffeine.  The parents weren't watching him, and he was basically tearing all around.  He wasn't really watching where he was going, and he ended up bumping into a marine who was in full uniform.  The kid looked up at him, and asked "Are you a marine?"  The marine smiled, said "Yes, I am", and offered to let the kid wear his hat.  The kid puts on the hat, and continues to run around the airport lounge.  A few minutes later, he runs into a ranger, who looks down at him and says "Kid, do you want me to kick the living shit out of you?"  The kid looks up and says "Oh no, I'm not a marine, I'm just wearing the hat!"






Sorry, couldn't resist...

Quoted: The U.S. Marine Corps is NOT a part of the Navy. Not in any way. two services under the Department of the Navy.

So which is it?  If it's under the Department of the Navy, IT IS part of the Navy.

Uniformed Marines command FAR MORE sailors, than sailors do Marines.

I've had many, many sailors work for me.  I've never worked for a sailor.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 2.  The Marine Corps does NOT get "all the crap the Army throws away". I know that for a while the Marine Corps was much more willing to overlook "youthful indiscretions" than the other branches of the service, so they certainly got some marines whom the Army didn't want... The Corps' recruits meet higher standards of test scores and education than that of the Army.

Good to see ya again Cincinnatus.

Stayin' safe?

Quoted: Not even a little bit.

Nope. They're 10 times what any Soldier is, remember?

Not even logic, facts, or their own logo breaks through to them.

Again, note the direct statement that there are two services under the Department of the Navy.

Right. But the USMC isn't part of the Navy.



I love Marines. I really do.

But you guys seriously need to get over this love affair you have with yourselves.

You are part of a team; the Navy-Marine Coprs Team, and on a larger scale the U.S. Military.

You are not better than anyone else, nor are you so special that you have to proclaim yourselves as such.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The U.S. Marine Corps is NOT a part of the Navy. Not in any way. www.edwards.af.mil/archive/2004/images/usmc_logo_sm.jpg If you say so.... DANG!!  That had to sting.   Not even a little bit. www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/organization/org-sec.html Note the CMC and the CNO equally reporting to the SecNav. Here's a direct quote from the site: "The Department of the Navy consists of two uniformed Services: the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps." Again, note the direct statement that there are two services under the Department of the Navy.

I want you , very carefully now, to look at YOUR quote at the top of the post.

Then I want you to look at YOUR SECOND quote at the bottom.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A Marine is 10 times the fighting man than a Soldier is. Yeah, and about 1,000,000 times as cluelessly arrogant. The truth hurts

Oh! So you ADMIT to being 1,000,000 times as cluelessly arrogant?

Good! Progress!

Quoted: Quoted: The U.S. Marine Corps is NOT a part of the Navy. Not in any way. two services under the Department of the Navy. So which is it?  If it's under the Department of the Navy, IT IS part of the Navy.

You must be a soldier. This is simple.  It's about sets and subsets.

The Marine Corps AND the Navy are in the Department of the Navy.

Quoted: The Marine Corps AND the Navy are in the Department of the Navy.

Dig..... Dig....... Dig that hole!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The U.S. Marine Corps is NOT a part of the Navy. Not in any way. www.edwards.af.mil/archive/2004/images/usmc_logo_sm.jpg If you say so.... DANG!!  That had to sting.   Not even a little bit. www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/organization/org-sec.html Note the CMC and the CNO equally reporting to the SecNav. Here's a direct quote from the site: "The Department of the Navy consists of two uniformed Services: the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps." Again, note the direct statement that there are two services under the Department of the Navy.

Dept of Navy consist of 2 services.......................... USN, and USMC.................. Did someone say the USMC was not under the Navy, then post a quote refuting their own point of view?

Quoted: You are not better than anyone else....

What is this, one of those hippie soccer leagues where no one keeps score?
"Everyone's a winner!"

Nonsense.
If there are two, one is better than the other.
It just depends on your metric.

If your metric is discipline, and fighting spirit...
The Corps wins hands down.
Just look at polls taken of the services, and their attitudes towards the war.

Ask the Iraqi Army with whom they would prefer to fight against, or WITH.

I've had QRFs come to my aid in combat, both Army and Marine.
Guess which one arrived first?
Care to guess which one arrived aggressive and ready to fight?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A Marine is 10 times the fighting man than a Soldier is. Yeah, and about 1,000,000 times as cluelessly arrogant. The truth hurts Oh! So you ADMIT to being 1,000,000 times as cluelessly arrogant? Good! Progress!

You are taking my post seriously arent you?

Nothing like a early morning flame war to get everyone woken up

Quoted: Quoted: Not even a little bit. Nope. They're 10 times what any Soldier is, remember? Not even logic, facts, or their own logo breaks through to them. Again, note the direct statement that there are two services under the Department of the Navy. Right. But the USMC isn't part of the Navy. I love Marines. I really do. But you guys seriously need to get over this love affair you have with yourselves. You are part of a team; the Navy-Marine Coprs Team, and on a larger scale the U.S. Military. You are not better than anyone else, nor are you so special that you have to proclaim yourselves as such.

That's not completely true.  They figgure if they do it loudly enough, it MUST be true.

Everyone wants to think they are "elite" blah blah blah.  

Combined arms teams win fights, but, being part of a team and working
together is only but so sexy, I suppose.

AFAIC, if your unit isn't a SOCOM one, there ain't a damn elite thing
about you, other than your ego.

Quoted: Quoted: A Marine is 10 times the fighting man than a Soldier is. Yeah, and about 1,000,000 times as cluelessly arrogant.

And what are you attempting to accomplish by the above?

How come I never see any posts from insecure Soldiers who feel compelled to just randomly point out how they are not part of the Navy (even though their logo says "Deptartment of the Navy" in big letters)?  Seems like some of the Marines are feeling insecure......

Quoted: Quoted: You are not better than anyone else.... What is this, one of those hippie soccer leagues where no one keeps score? "Everyone's a winner!" Nonsense. If there are two, one is better than the other. It just depends on your metric. If your metric is discipline, and fighting spirit... The Corps wins hands down. Just look at polls taken of the services, and their attitudes towards the war. Ask the Iraqi Army with whom they would prefer to fight against, or WITH.

Yeah, while the USMC was talking to reporters about fighting spirit, the US Army 3ID wiped out 2 Iraqi Guard Divisions, and 1 independent brigade, at the Karballah gap. Which coincidentally the USAF had presicion bombed.............. yet they still had 80%+ of the tanks and APC's.

While USMC units stopped on the outskirts of Baghdad, the 3ID then did it's Thunder Runs into Baghdad,  and organized Iraqi resistance stopped.

Then some guys wrote some books about how great the Marines fought.............

Meanwhile a 3ID sodier was awarded the Medal of Honor...................... after he gave his life.

Well its obvious the origin of this thread and the multiple responders seem to be the insecure ones.

Zaph, IIRC you were USN?   Whats your beef?


Oly,
What do you know about the Marine Corps except for what you read ? (not comprehend)

Quoted: You are taking my post seriously arent you? Nothing like a early morning flame war to get everyone woken up

Hey man, talk shit and you're going to get responses.



WE'RE THE MARINE CORPS! HOO-RAH!

WE'RE NOT PART OF THE NAVY (We have it in our logo just for asthetic balance.)

WE'RE TEN TIMES BETTER THAN THE ARMY (Don't mind us dissing the American warriors who fight beside us.)

Sorry, brother. I highly admire the USMC and everyone in it, enough that I often wish I had selected USMC coming out of USNA, but it's attitudes like the ones being expressed by Marines in this thread that turned me off to it all those years ago.

You really need to get over yourselves. You are a cog in a larger wheel. Interservice ribbing is all good and fun, but you guys seem to be the only ones who actually seem to believe it.

Quoted: You all can argue about the original post all you want, there is one FACT about the Marine Corps though - A Marine is 10 times the fighting man than a Soldier is.

Depends on the soldier.

Marines do a good job of making their men warriors.

But I don't really want to go picking a fight with an Airforce pilot in his F-16. Do you???

You can find exceptional warriors in ALL the services.

But a little esprit de corps is harmless.

The jarheads, squids, grunts, and flyboys don't usually come to blows over it. Usually.

Unless there is beer involved. Then all bets are off...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The U.S. Marine Corps is NOT a part of the Navy. Not in any way. two services under the Department of the Navy. So which is it?  If it's under the Department of the Navy, IT IS part of the Navy. You must be a soldier. This is simple.  It's about sets and subsets. The Marine Corps AND the Navy are in the Department of the Navy.

Neither.   Are Marines retarded, or just don't have reading comprehension


Being IN THE DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY is BEING part of the NAVY

Quoted: Well its obvious the origin of this thread and the multiple responders seem to be the insecure ones. Zaph, IIRC you were USN?   Whats your beef? Oly, What do you know about the Marine Corps except for what you read ? (not comprehend)

I know they are in the Dept of the Navy.

I guess I know a lot since the USMC seems to instill Esprit De Corps, and jabber to the media better than any other US armed service..........................

Quoted: Zaph, IIRC you were USN?   Whats your beef?

My only beef in this thread is the mindless chest-thumping and "We're better than you are" bullshit that's being flung around by people who are supposed to be our brothers-in-arms.

You want to brag about how much better you are than the enemy? DO IT!

You want to be proud of the incredible legacy the Corps has built in battle over the years? DO IT!


But don't come down here telling me that any one of you is worth 10 United States Army Soldiers, or that you are not part of the Navy (as though the United States Navy was somehow beneath contempt and not to be assosciated with) because then I'm going to call BS.

It's one thing to be proud. Each service has earned that. But NO service has the right to be ARROGANT toward another.

THAT is my beef.

I always hear that about the marines getting the stuff the Army throws away, I hear it from former marines.

To answer your question about naming one thing:

The M1A1 tank was given to the marines from the Army when they starting getting M1A2s

Other items that they have followed the Army's lead on are:

1911 pistol stamped "Model 1911A1 U.S. Army" carried by marines
M16A1 rifle
HMMWVs
M4 carbine
Aimpoints and ACOGs

and, sir, the Stryker is not a LAV. But, the LAV does use the Bradley turret.

We've posted this a thousand times over, both services are necessary and good at what they do, no need to cry about being under the Navy, you are. Sorry, bro. Just be proud.

Quoted: Quoted: Well its obvious the origin of this thread and the multiple responders seem to be the insecure ones. Zaph, IIRC you were USN?   Whats your beef? Oly, What do you know about the Marine Corps except for what you read ? (not comprehend) I know they are in the Dept of the Navy. I guess I know a lot since the USMC seems to instill Esprit De Corps, and jabber to the media better than any other US armed service..........................

Well then maybe they should hire you for PR work since you do more shit talking than Mr. T

Quoted: Quoted: A Marine is 10 times the fighting man than a Soldier is. Yeah, and about 1,000,000 times as cluelessly arrogant.

Wow I could really make the Army look bad here but I'm not going to start a flame war.

Quoted: I always hear that about the marines getting the stuff the Army throws away, I hear it from former marines. To answer your question about naming one thing: The M1A1 tank was given to the marines from the Army when they starting getting M1A2s Other items that they have followed the Army's lead on are: 1911 pistol stamped "Model 1911A1 U.S. Army" carried by marines M16A1 rifle HMMWVs M4 carbine Aimpoints and ACOGs and, sir, the Stryker is not a LAV. But, the LAV does use the Bradley turret. We've posted this a thousand times over, both services are necessary and good at what they do, no need to cry about being under the Navy, you are. Sorry, bro. Just be proud.

Don't forget about Cobra gunships and UH-1s for that matter.

Quoted: Quoted: Zaph, IIRC you were USN?   Whats your beef? My only beef in this thread is the mindless chest-thumping and "We're better than you are" bullshit that's being flung around by people who are supposed to be our brothers-in-arms. You want to brag about how much better you are than the enemy? DO IT! You want to be proud of the incredible legacy the Corps has built in battle over the years? DO IT! But don't come down here telling me that any one of you is worth 10 United States Army Soldiers, or that you are not part of the Navy (as though the United States Navy was somehow beneath contempt and not to be assosciated with) because then I'm going to call BS. It's one thing to be proud. Each service has earned that. But NO service has the right to be ARROGANT toward another. THAT is my beef.

Well if you are dumping me (and yes I'm USMC), into that catagory you are gravely mistaken.
You are making an All Encompassing generalization about Marines and using a broad stroke to paint all into "your" catargory.   It sounds a little like you had a bad experience with a few and now dispise all of us for their behavior.  I guess one bad apple ruins the whole bunch?
And please Site anywhere I have done any chest thumping?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You are not better than anyone else.... What is this, one of those hippie soccer leagues where no one keeps score? "Everyone's a winner!" Nonsense. If there are two, one is better than the other. It just depends on your metric. If your metric is discipline, and fighting spirit... The Corps wins hands down. Just look at polls taken of the services, and their attitudes towards the war. Ask the Iraqi Army with whom they would prefer to fight against, or WITH. Yeah, while the USMC was talking to reporters about fighting spirit, the US Army 3ID wiped out 2 Iraqi Guard Divisions, and 1 independent brigade, at the Karballah gap. Which coincidentally the USAF had presicion bombed.............. yet they still had 80%+ of the tanks and APC's. While USMC units stopped on the outskirts of Baghdad, the 3ID then did it's Thunder Runs into Baghdad,  and organized Iraqi resistance stopped. Then some guys wrote some books about how great the Marines fought............. Meanwhile a 3ID sodier was awarded the Medal of Honor...................... after he gave his life.

Aren't you the guy who claimed that most of the forces fighting in Al Fajr were Army?
Yeah, that was you.

It took the Army 45 minutes to arrive when we called their QRF.
They were less than a half mile away.
This because an IED just exploded obliterating a fine Marine.
As it turns out, a soldier in a nearby OP saw this IED being buried.  His commanders wouldn't give him permisssion to fire.  Nor did they pass the information onto those who were out patrolling the AO.

When the QRF finally arrived, they brought along General Casey's SGTMAJ.  
They found the triggerman.
The triggerman tried to get away, and a damn fine soldier kicked him down to the ground.
The SGTMAJ charged the soldier with prisoner abuse.  He is being Court Martialed.

All in all, my recent experience with the Army left some to be desired.

[Rodney King] Can't all you deck-apes and jarheads just get along??? [/Rodney King]

Quoted: Wow I could really make the Army look bad here ....

Why would you WANT to?



Hey Marines! Tell you what!

Next time you need to go into battle, SWIM to the fucking battlefield, bring your own air support, and use your own intel and logistics resources, and don't expect any relief from the Army.

Go on! Practice what you preach! Be bad! Do it all on your own!

Let's see just how bad you are when you're out there ALONE.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The U.S. Marine Corps is NOT a part of the Navy. Not in any way. two services under the Department of the Navy. So which is it?  If it's under the Department of the Navy, IT IS part of the Navy. You must be a soldier. This is simple.  It's about sets and subsets. The Marine Corps AND the Navy are in the Department of the Navy. Neither.   Are Marines retarded, or just don't have reading comprehension Being IN THE DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY is BEING part of the NAVY

So therefore the Navy is a part of the Navy.
Seems a bit redundant.

It's a simple concept.