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Posted: 10/1/2004 8:18:25 AM EST
I have been discussing the debates and Dem's vs. GOP with a liberal here at work. His assertion is the minorities have fewer opportunities and even fewer quality opportunities when Republicans are in the White House.

Is this true? Does anyone know where to find stats?

Thanks in advance!
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:19:51 AM EST
I don't know if it's true, but if it is, maybe it's because Republicans want the minorities to actually, you know, do the work for themselves.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:21:03 AM EST
How is this news? So, if the opposite is true, then we could say: "WHITES HAVE FEWER JOBS WHEN DEMOCRATS ARE IN CONTROL!"

BFD.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:21:56 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:24:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
How is this news? So, if the opposite is true, then we could say: "WHITES HAVE FEWER JOBS WHEN DEMOCRATS ARE IN CONTROL!"
BFD.



The problem is that I want to have a substantive debate. I understand the sentiment that you are expressing but I would like to ATTEMPT to work with REAL data. It is easy for people to make claims like my associate is trying to do... No one ever really checks up on them and it gets pened as fact.

I doubt his claim but regardless I must address it and move forward.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:26:22 AM EST
Unless he provided any actual data, I say you should simply tell him "So what?"
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:26:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:29:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Well minority home ownership is at an all time high... what do you think they are paying that mortgage with, foodstamps?



Wonderful data! This will go a long way... This is will put him on his heals. I want more data so this will be a decisive victory.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:43:31 AM EST
Minority incomes are growing faster under Bush than they did under Clinton.

Your liberal friend is an idiot.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:48:48 AM EST
I'm a white heterosexual American gun owner who won't be told by foreigners what to do or what I can own. I'm the F'n minority.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:09:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
Minority incomes are growing faster under Bush than they did under Clinton.

Your liberal friend is an idiot.

GunLvr



Slow down just a bit! My friend is NOT an idiot, that is why I care. Sometimes I wish he was, so I could write him off... In fact he is so smart I wonder how he could be trapped by all the feel-good rehtoric.

So, I am trying to extend to him the courtesy that I would want: proof! ...facts!
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:14:28 AM EST
Breaking news:
There are more Zombies when democrats are in control of Congress and the White House.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:15:17 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:17:50 AM EST
Oh my god, i hope the Bullshit doesn't get any deeper!! Because of Lymphedema i can only wear 8 inch upper boots!!
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:18:15 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 11:33:47 AM EST by JKiser]
in progress
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:20:05 AM EST
J.C. Watts is awesome

Powerful speaker and very engaging in conversation


- BG
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:22:46 AM EST
Also, one other point to ask your liberal friend:

(kinda off subject)



"Mr. Penis, Have you ever been hired by a poor person?"

Ask this question when the Bush tax cuts come up.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:24:42 AM EST
What "facts" did he give you?

How about some "facts" to back up his assertions. He doesn't sound too smart if he thinks that you will simply swallow his assertions. Either that or he thinks you're not very smart.

Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:24:55 AM EST
Idiot may be a little strong but he obviously has his /her common sense switch turned off.

Tell him yes you know. That you were on the local committee to decide which minorities would be laid off when the Republicans came back into control. Tell him you can put him in touch with your local Democratic counterpart, to make sure that his name isn't on the list of white folks to get laid off when they come back.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:28:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By JKiser:

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
Minority incomes are growing faster under Bush than they did under Clinton.

Your liberal friend is an idiot.

GunLvr



Slow down just a bit! My friend is NOT an idiot, that is why I care. Sometimes I wish he was, so I could write him off... In fact he is so smart I wonder how he could be trapped by all the feel-good rehtoric.

So, I am trying to extend to him the courtesy that I would want: proof! ...facts!



Ok...YOU open up YOUR mind and think for a sec...upon what data does your liberal "friend" base his thesis? Could it be possibly, just the loose-tongued rants from the Left?

No economic calculus that I know of would back up his claim. On the contrary, there now exists tons of data that tell a compelling story of how the New Deal, the War on Poverty and the Great Society, all conspired to destroy the black middle class in America, destroy the black family in America and keep black families ghettoized in the "projects". THAT is the data your "friend" needs to find. The black middle class is no in a period of resurgence that Bush has reinvigorated the middle class overall with his tax cuts. Black families DON'T NEED GOVERNMENT TO SUCCEED. THAT is a popular canard from the Left. Some in the black community have recognized the threat that liberalism poses to them and their families and their continued chances for success and upward mobility in our capitalist society. Others on the other hand continue to hang on to the old socialist crap and the lie that without liberals in government, black have NO chance in our evil, white run society. Bullshit!

I'm not about to do your homework for you. The info can be found on the web and in some bookstores in town and on campi. You'll have to dig hard though...because the writers are typically truth-telling conservatives, thus often hard to find.

Good Luck..and to your "friend" as well!
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:31:57 AM EST
You want info on minorites and Republicans let me ask you these few questions and you look it up:

1.) The first black member of the senate was a republican, who was he?

2.) The civil rights movement , minorities received equal rights through a Republican held house and senate, the president who was democrat had no backing to through the votes from his own party, who was it? (79% of republicans voted in favor vs 63% and pushed the 2/3rds vote necessary)

3.) The vietnam war draft in which the poor and minorities were selected was enacted under a democrat president who was it?

4.)20 million illegal immigrants were granted US citizenship under a Republican President in the early 80's, who was it?

5.) During the civil war slaves were set free under a Republican president whom also wanted to rebuild the south afterwards, both against the wishes of the democrats in office at the time. Who was the Republican president?

6.) there is a member of the senate who used to belong in the Ku Klux Klan, he is a democrat from a southern state, who is he?

7.)A republican president in the early 70's first instituted affirmative action and a democrat president in the 90's took it away, who were they?

There are of course more but lets just hit the main points for now.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:34:02 AM EST
Unemployment statistics over the past 25 years:

YEAR---BLK---WHT---RATIO
========================
1980---14.3---7.2---2.0
1981---15.6---7.6---2.1
1982---18.9---9.7---1.9
1983---19.5---9.6---2.0
1984---15.9---7.5---2.1
1985---15.1---7.2---2.1
1986---14.6---7.0---2.1
1987---13.0---6.2---2.1
1988---11.7---5.5---2.1
1989---11.5---5.3---2.2
1990---11.4---5.6---2.0
1991---12.5---6.9---1.8
1992---14.2---7.5---1.9
1993---13.0---6.9---1.9
1994---11.5---6.1---1.9
1995---10.4---5.6---1.9
1996---10.5---5.4---1.9
1997---10.1---4.9---2.0
1998----8.9---4.5---2.0
1999----8.0---4.2---1.9
2000----7.5---4.0---1.9
2001----8.6---4.8---1.8
2002---10.2---5.8---1.8
2003---10.8---6.0---1.8
2004---10.2---5.6---1.8

Source:
U.S. Department of Labor
Bureau of Labor Statistics
http://www.dol.gov/
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ln
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:34:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy:
J.C. Watts is awesome

Powerful speaker and very engaging in conversation


+1.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:34:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Breaking news:
There are more Zombies when democrats are in control of Congress and the White House.



Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:35:26 AM EST
More minority businesses were statred during Regan administration than any other. I'm tyrying to remember who pointed it out.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:37:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
Google, its your friend...

try something like "minority home ownership" "minority income increases"

Honestly, we don;t have time to do your research for you, but we'll point you in the right direction so you can try to salvage your friend... hell, if you want a ton of facts go to www.georgewbush.com.



I do not want you to do my research for me...
I goole'd to a pile of data (see other post).

I am racing to keep up with a conversation and was looking to see if someone else had been through some of the same research. Follow the links I listed above and you will be able to query for ALL kinds of stuff...
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:39:19 AM EST
read my post above. enough said.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:39:24 AM EST
Most of these are "facts" with no way to ever support them. 43% of all statistics are bullshit.

Your trying to prove something that doesnt exist to your dear diminutive.

Make him show you the stat that says "we" have fewer jobs under the Republicans.

Common sense says, tax cuts make rich people keep their money. They dont sit on it, and I have never been employed by a poor guy.

Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:50:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By CavVet:
Most of these are "facts" with no way to ever support them. 43% of all statistics are bullshit.

Your trying to prove something that doesnt exist to your dear diminutive.

Make him show you the stat that says "we" have fewer jobs under the Republicans.

Common sense says, tax cuts make rich people keep their money. They dont sit on it, and I have never been employed by a poor guy.




That is my point!

Most folks are careless with statistical data... I wanted REAL data so I could get away from the:
Yes it is!
No it isn't
Yes it is!
No it isn't
Yes it is!
No it isn't
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:59:22 AM EST
Thomas Jefferson, the first Democratic Party president, was a slave owner. Abraham Lincoln, the first Republican Party president, freed the slaves.

The first public meeting of the Republican Party was held in March of 1854 at a small church in Ripon, Wisconsin, where Alan Bovary rallied anti-slavery forces and adopted resolutions opposing the Kansas-Nebraska act.

Hiram R. Revels of Mississippi took his seat February 25, 1879, as the first black United States senator. He was a Republican.

On February 12, 1909, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) was founded. The call for the organizational meeting was issued on the 100th anniversary of Abraham Lincoln's birth by 47 whites and six blacks.

Woodrow Wilson received less than seven percent of the black vote in 1912. The new Democratic Congress immediately enacted laws barring racial intermarriage in Washington, D.C., and Wilson went along. Signs barring the words "whites only" and "blacks only" began appearing above toilets and drinking fountains throughout the city. Jim Crow practices crept into federal agencies. The number of black presidential appointees dropped from 33 to 9.

Presidents Harding and Coolidge, both Republicans proposed commissions to bridge the divide between the races more than a generation before Bill Clinton was born. Harding told Congress in 1921 that such a body could formulate "if not a policy, at least a national attitude" that could bring the races closer together.
Republican Rep. Leonidis Dryer of St. Louis, Missouri, led efforts to make lynching a federal crime. Dryer first introduced his bill in 1918, the year the GOP regained control of Congress. Several years later, when Republican President Harding was in office, Dyre reintroduced his bill to make lynching a federal crime, punishable by five years in prison and a fine of $5000. It passed the House 230 to 119. The bill stalled in the Senate, where Democrats threatened to stop all other business from coming before the Congress unless the matter was dropped.

The Ku Klux Klan nearly shut down the Democratic convention in 1924. Delegates settled on John W. Daves on the 103 ballot, breaking a deadlock between Klan-backed William McAdoo (Woodrow Wilson's son-n-law) and New York's Catholic Governor. Al Smith. There were enough Klan delegates and sympathizers in the hall to block a platform of plank condemning the KKK.

The 1937, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, a Democrat, nominated U.S. Senator Hugo Black of Alabama to the Supreme Court. His appointment to the Supreme Court met strong opposition from the public and Republicans in the Senate because of his earlier membership in the Ku Klux Klan.

In 1942, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9006, which stripped 120,000 Japanese-Americans of their political rights. Harold Icks, Roosevelt's Secretary Of Interior, facilitated the use of a Indian Reservation as an interment camp for the Japanese-Americans. (Fifty years later, Ickes' son became and adviser to both Bill and Hillary Clinton.)

In 1988, President Ronald Reagan, a Republican, signed the Civil Liberties Act of 1988. The Act was passed by Congress to provide a Presidential apology and symbolic payment of $20,000 to the internees, evacuees, and persons of Japanese ancestry who lost liberty or property because of discriminatory action by the Federal government during World War II.

Growing up in Independence, Missouri, a bastion of Confederate sentiment three decades after the civil war, Harry S Truman, a future Democratic president, had been taught to be believe that African-Americans were racially inferior. One man is as good another, a youthful Truman wrote, "so long as he is honest and decent and not a nigger or a Chinaman."

The Confederate flag in South Carolina was raised above the Statehouse in 1962 by Governor. Ernest Hollings in defiance of the civil rights movement. Today Hollings is a Democrat in the U.S. Senate.

The Congressional Quarterly of June 26, 1964, recorded that, in the Senate, only 69 percent of Democrats (46 for, 21 against) voted for the Civil Rights Act as comparted to 82 percent of Republicans (27 for, six against.) All southern Democratic senators voted against the Act. This includes the current senator from West Virginia and former KKK member Robert C Byrd and former Tennessee senator Al Gore, Sr. The Act's primary opposition came from the southern Democrats 74-day filibuster.

In the House of Representatives, 61 percent of Democrats (152 for, 96 against) voted for the Civil Rights Act; 92 of the 103 southern Democrats voted against it. Among Republicans, 80 percent (138 for, 34 against) voted for it.

When former Klansman David Duke announced that he was running for U.S. Congress as a Republican, the GOP moved quickly to disassociate itself from Duke. Republican National Committee Chairman Jim Nicholson declared, "There is no room in the party of Lincoln for a Klansman liked David Duke." The Democratic Party made no effort to dissociate itself from the current senator from West Virginia and former KKK member Robert C Byrd. On the contrary, Byrd is considered one of the Democrats' elder statesmen.

In a speech to the Progressive National Baptist Convention in 2000, Vice President Gore described his father's commitment to the civil rights movement as a senator: "He supported the Voting Rights Act in 1965 and lost his next re-election. But his conscience won and he taught me that was more important than any election." Sen. Albert Gore, Sr,. did lose his re-elections in 1970-to Rep. Bill Brock, a Republican from Chattanooga who had voted for the Voting Rights Act in 1965 as a member of the House, Gore, Sr., as mentioned above, opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act-a decision he continued to defend ever after he left office.
Eighty-two percent of the House Republicans backed the Voting Rights Act of 1965; in the Senate, 94 percent of the Republicans backed it. Seventeen Southern Democrats voted against it, including Sen. J. William Fulbright of Arkansas, a mentor to President Bill Clinton.

While African-Americans make up just 12 percent of the U.S. population, they account for 43 percent of the abortion victims. In other words, if 1.5 million abortions were performed this year in America, 645,000 will result in the deaths of African-American children. While the Republican Party works to limit all abortions, the Democratic Party is overwhelmingly pro-abortion.

Proposition 209, a constitutional amendment by initiative was past by the California electorate by a 54-46 percent vote on the November 1996. Proposition 209 is also known as the California Civil Rights Initiative because it restates the historical Civil Rights Act and proclaims simply and clearly: "The state shall not discriminate against or grant preferential treatment to, any individual or group, on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity or national origin in the operation of public employment, public education, or public contracting." Predictably, most Democrats opposed Preposition 209 and similar initiatives in other states. These Democrats apparently have forgotten that government cannot work against discrimination if government itself discriminates. But then, as illustrated by the above facts, the Democratic Party Has rarely worked against discrimination.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:04:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By LWilde:
Ok...YOU open up YOUR mind and think for a sec...upon what data does your liberal "friend" base his thesis? Could it be possibly, just the loose-tongued rants from the Left?



My mind is WIDE open. It is a 2-stroke runnin' at full throttle! If I had a V-8, I wouldn't be postin' for more info.


Originally Posted By LWilde:
No economic calculus that I know of would back up his claim. On the contrary, there now exists tons of data that tell a compelling story of how the New Deal, the War on Poverty and the Great Society, all conspired to destroy the black middle class in America, destroy the black family in America and keep black families ghettoized in the "projects".



Great! Where is it? Is it succinctly gather for easy use? That is the topic of my post... Otherwise you are asking me to just provide spin without proof.



I'm not about to do your homework for you.



This is about winning hearts and minds. If you aren't willing to 'help' one of the misguided find the info t turn them around, what are you willing to do? As I said earlier, I do not have a "homework assignment" that I need help with... I am racing to change the mind of ONE man before the election.

I am a 36 year old CONSERVATIVE REGISTERED REPUBLICAN married father of one. I know where I stand, I know what I believe. I have read many things, listened to many people and I am convinced that the ONLY rational choices are members of the Republican party. They are the only people that come close to my values and way of thinking.

The problem is that I have a very poor memory and I am functioning at the edge of my ability. I am reaching out to others that may have followed this path before me.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:08:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By InFALliBill:
You want info on minorites and Republicans let me ask you these few questions and you look it up:

1.) The first black member of the senate was a republican, who was he?

2.) The civil rights movement , minorities received equal rights through a Republican held house and senate, the president who was democrat had no backing to through the votes from his own party, who was it? (79% of republicans voted in favor vs 63% and pushed the 2/3rds vote necessary)

3.) The vietnam war draft in which the poor and minorities were selected was enacted under a democrat president who was it?

4.)20 million illegal immigrants were granted US citizenship under a Republican President in the early 80's, who was it?

5.) During the civil war slaves were set free under a Republican president whom also wanted to rebuild the south afterwards, both against the wishes of the democrats in office at the time. Who was the Republican president?

6.) there is a member of the senate who used to belong in the Ku Klux Klan, he is a democrat from a southern state, who is he?

7.)A republican president in the early 70's first instituted affirmative action and a democrat president in the 90's took it away, who were they?

There are of course more but lets just hit the main points for now.




Ok. Great. How will I convince him to care or that this stuff matters? I am not trying to treat this as a battle with me ending up as the victor. I am trying to reach a person that WILL understand if presented the Right info.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:09:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By ARMALITE-FAN:
More minority businesses were statred during Regan administration than any other. I'm tyrying to remember who pointed it out.



Source?
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