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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/17/2005 6:22:31 AM EDT
Whenever a news story discusses the closing of a military base, the author always puts near the top of the list of considerations the number of jobs that would be lost. Who cares!?!? If the military doesn't need the base, close it, plain and simple. The military and related industries are not make-work programs; they're there to protect America. Period.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:27:01 AM EDT
I agree with you. However, most people only care about what happens to them.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:28:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 6:28:53 AM EDT by chips]

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:
I agree with you. However, most people only care about what happens to them.

yeah, why would anyone be upset when they lose their job? that's selfish
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:32:01 AM EDT
Looks like we could use 20 or so new military bases on the Mexican border...
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:36:42 AM EDT
Hotels, apartment building, food store, civilian works and many, many, many non-military peoiple ALSO lose their jobs when a base closes.

Sgat1r5
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:38:28 AM EDT
It is happening in CT here for the subbase.
But if we shut down all the useless solcial programs no one uses and stop giving out grants for hydropower that no one uses but the money disapears we could actually survive the closing.

So she is spending millions on lawyers to fight the closing that we could of used elsewhere.




Originally Posted By kill-9:
Whenever a news story discusses the closing of a military base, the author always puts near the top of the list of considerations the number of jobs that would be lost. Who cares!?!? If the military doesn't need the base, close it, plain and simple. The military and related industries are not make-work programs; they're there to protect America. Period.

Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:38:32 AM EDT
It's like any other industry. Times and focus change.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:38:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chips:

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:
I agree with you. However, most people only care about what happens to them.

yeah, why would anyone be upset when they lose their job? that's selfish



During my career, I have worked at two businesses that closed. Both times I lost my job due to the closure. I found another job both times. Life is like that.

What I did NOT do was try to force my employer to stay in operation.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:39:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Hotels, apartment building, food store, civilian works and many, many, many non-military peoiple ALSO lose their jobs when a base closes.

Sgat1r5



True, but, again, that should not be a consideration when deciding whether to close a base. ONLY the usefulness of the base to the military should be considered. Those whose livelihoods depend on the base knew the risks going in.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:47:14 AM EDT
Depends on what those jobs are. In the early rounds of base closing this year, they almost shut down MCLB Albany, which is currently the only base uparmoring Marine vehicles for Iraq.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:52:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kill-9:

True, but, again, that should not be a consideration when deciding whether to close a base. ONLY the usefulness of the base to the military should be considered. Those whose livelihoods depend on the base knew the risks going in.



Bet ya most did not actualy think about that posibility.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:53:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kill-9:
True, but, again, that should not be a consideration when deciding whether to close a base. ONLY the usefulness of the base to the military should be considered. Those whose livelihoods depend on the base knew the risks going in.



I agree. I live in Sac, Cali. We had BOTH of our AF bases closed.

We barely felt the ripple.

Why?

Well, mainly because it just so happens that and old SAC AF base is THE perfect place to put a major hub for Airborne Exprees, UPS, and Fed Ex.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:56:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/17/2005 6:56:42 AM EDT by AvengeR15]
You guys remember a while back when all the protestors on Viques Island wanted the Navy to stop using it as a gunnery range?

The Navy finally gave in and stopped using the gunnery range, and subsequently closed their base on that island, since it was essentially useless now. Once again the protestors were screaming because it was going to cost 1,500 local jobs.

So, they didn't want the Navy to do anything on the island, just pay their salaries. Dumbasses. They got what they deserved.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 6:59:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kill-9:

Who cares!?!?



1. The people that work there

2. The companies that sell to that base

3. The local municipalities that collect taxes
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:03:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By kill-9:
True, but, again, that should not be a consideration when deciding whether to close a base. ONLY the usefulness of the base to the military should be considered. Those whose livelihoods depend on the base knew the risks going in.



I agree. I live in Sac, Cali. We had BOTH of our AF bases closed.

We barely felt the ripple.

Why?

Well, mainly because it just so happens that and old SAC AF base is THE perfect place to put a major hub for Airborne Exprees, UPS, and Fed Ex.


there you go...one door closes, another opens...

thing that bugs me is that rummy said we, the us, were gonna save billion and billions...now they say, PSYCH! it ain't gonna save shit!
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:06:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By kill-9:

Who cares!?!?



1. The people that work there

2. The companies that sell to that base

3. The local municipalities that collect taxes



Adapt
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:25:01 AM EDT
Who cares? That is a simple minded way to look at look at a base closing.

What the local community is trying to convey to certain asshole generals and political hacks is the true economic impact of closing a base. The loss of a couple of thousand people from the area when the troops leave, the loss of a couple of hundred jobs associated with the base and the loss of revenue to all sorts of business is far greater than most military figures ever reflect. In the case of the local air base, it has mostly new facilities, it is well liked this is a pro-military area, housing and rent is cheaper here than the national average, it is far enough from town no one bitches about the noise and is one of the most popular assignments in the Air Force. None of this is reflected in whatever the military has to say.


The military portrays it as "saving money" because they do not have the operating costs of running the facility. They typically move the equipment and people and have to construct new facilities at a different location, the savings they claim to have is usually imagined. More than one base closing is motivated by politics and a dislike for the region or the unit or as in the last BRAC list, clearly the Air Force is motivated by an intense dislike for Air National Guard units.

The ANG flys a huge percentage of the Air Force tanker and air lift and does it cheaper and with a higher FMC rate (fully mission capable). In retaliation for this, the Air Force is trying to "co-locate" guard maintanence and pilots with active duty in the same units and steal well maintained guard planes and give them back to the Air Force in hopes of improving their crappy maintanence and flying skills.

The average ANG maintainer has two or three times the number of years of service and far more skill and in many cases they have a similar civilian job that makes them even better at what they do. Quite a few ANG pilots are professional who fly for airlines and have thousands of hours of time,,not a few hundred like most USAF pilots. The makes assholes like Gen Jumper jealous and he tries to ruin the ANG.

There is far more to base closings than you can imagine, it is not social welfare and it is not usually related to the actual need to close the base because it is no longer useful. The impact of bases and small armories in different regions impacts more than just the men and women on the base. It impacts public perception of the military, recruiting, training, local economies and regional protection of the conus. Moving everyone to one big giant base in Kansas may be cheap as hell, but is is not a great idea.

The Puerto Ricans got what they wanted,,,they DEMANDED the Navy leave, they DEMANDED a stop to ALL training and all ships. They should not have expected the base to stay around.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:26:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lennster:

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By kill-9:

Who cares!?!?



1. The people that work there

2. The companies that sell to that base

3. The local municipalities that collect taxes



Adapt




Of course
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:44:29 AM EDT
You know they said that when they closed Ft. Devens. Now it is still a thriving community,they have put an industrial park on one part of the base,and have been rehabing the houses and selling them,and taking some of the barracks and other buildings and turning them into apartments. So all is not lost.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 7:54:45 AM EDT
Personally I really do not think you are nearly jaded enough. Military bases are big money for a community, and way, way too much politics go into these closures that have absolutely nothing to do with our nations defence, and everthing to do with pork and connections.

Noticed with a lot of laugh that for the most part, the only congressional district in Texas that had net closures (or at liest the one hit the hardest) was Ron Paul's.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 8:20:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lonegunman:
Who cares? That is a simple minded way to look at look at a base closing.



I said, "who cares" in regard specifically to "jobs lost". Most of what you described is politics. The politics involved in deciding which bases to close are just as wrong as worrying about "jobs lost".
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 9:09:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrsWildweasel:
You know they said that when they closed Ft. Devens. Now it is still a thriving community,they have put an industrial park on one part of the base,and have been rehabing the houses and selling them,and taking some of the barracks and other buildings and turning them into apartments. So all is not lost.


Devens is in a high-value real estate market; its not the norm. Many of these bases/ posts are in relatively rural areas where the military is/was the big or even the sole employer in town. Bases that closed almost ten years ago are still struggling to find replacement employers/ jobs.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 10:52:58 AM EDT
It would not be suprising for people to worry about their jobs, they have lives, families and bills. To suddenly find yourself unemployed and living in a region with 12% unemployment and no major employers is pretty miserable.

If you live in San Fagsisco, closing the Presido and opening hundreds of acres for development and homes for commerical sale while getting rid of a conservative heterosexual enclave is a big positive. If you live in northern Michigan and you lose 1250 jobs and an additional 3000 residents and about 500 million dollars a year from the regional economy it is a disaster.

After watching some of the BRAC commission on C-span and hearing the outright lies from the Air Force. It is apparent that base closing has jack shit to do with military need and a lot to do with patting backs, bribes and political favors for congressmen that approve shit like the F-22 and carriers.

Link Posted: 8/17/2005 5:24:11 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 8/17/2005 9:22:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kill-9:
Whenever a news story discusses the closing of a military base, the author always puts near the top of the list of considerations the number of jobs that would be lost. Who cares!?!? If the military doesn't need the base, close it, plain and simple. The military and related industries are not make-work programs; they're there to protect America. Period.



This is true, but all too often their is a lot of politics involved in deciding which bases to close and which to remain open. And NOT all of the politics comes from politicians, business owners or the community next to the Base.

Sometimes decisions to close a base are really made by political turf battles that go on between different commands within a service. Lots of Generals and Admirals wanting to get another star.
And there is a lot of "cooking the books" to justify the decision to close a base on the grounds that it would save money or increase military value, just so another base in a different command can absorb the personnel and work that they bring with them.

There is a LOT of politics going on WITHIN the Military. Lots of Turf Battles, fights over funding, running unrealistic tests of equipment, cutting of test funds, etc.
Just so a project looks good and a Captain or Colonel who is in charge of the program comes up smelling like roses and gets promoted.

Crap, not only is there rivalry between the services, their is rivalry between the commands and between different bases going all the way down to departments and below.

If there is someone who thinks that politics played no role in determining the current choices of bases to be placed on the BRAC list...well..I got a bridge I'd like to sell you...

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