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Posted: 3/12/2006 4:05:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 4:09:31 PM EDT by 22bad]
Military Shuns Many of Recruiting Age
PAULINE JELINEK
Associated Press Writer
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060312/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/uncle_sam_wants_you;_ylt=Ap9ONTUg76BMrCbxCvBY0Fas0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-
WASHINGTON - Uncle Sam wants YOU, that famous Army recruiting poster says. But does he really? Not if you're a Ritalin-taking, overweight, Generation Y couch potato — or some combination of the above.

As for that fashionable "body art" that the military still calls a tattoo, having one is grounds for rejection, too.

With U.S. casualties rising in wars overseas and more opportunities in the civilian work force from an improved U.S. economy, many young people are shunning a career in the armed forces. But recruiting is still a two-way street — and the military, too, doesn't want most people in this prime recruiting age group of 17 to 24.

Of some 32 million Americans now in this group, the Army deems the vast majority too obese, too uneducated, too flawed in some way, according to its estimates for the current budget year.

"As you look at overall population and you start factoring out people, many are not eligible in the first place to apply," said Doug Smith, spokesman for the Army Recruiting Command.

Some experts are skeptical.

Previous Defense Department studies have found that 75 percent of young people are ineligible for military service, noted Charles Moskos of Northwestern University. While the professor emeritus who specializes in military sociology says it is "a baloney number," he acknowledges he has no figures to counter it.

"Recruiters are looking for reasons other than themselves," said David R. Segal, director of the Center for Research on Military Organization at the University of Maryland. "So they blame the pool."

The military's figures are estimates, based partly on census numbers. They are part of an elaborate analysis the military does as it struggles each year to compete with colleges and companies for the nation's best and brightest, plan for future needs and maintain diversity.

The Census Bureau estimates that the overall pool of people who would be in the military's prime target age has shrunk as American society ages. There were 1 million fewer 18- to 24-year olds in 2004 than in 2000, the agency says.

The pool shrinks to 13.6 million when only high school graduates and those who score in the upper half on a military service aptitude test are considered. The 30 percent who are high school dropouts are not the top choice of today's professional, all-volunteer and increasingly high-tech military force.

Other factors include:

_the rising rate of obesity; some 30 percent of U.S. adults are now considered obese.

_a decline in physical fitness; one-third of teenagers are now believed to be incapable of passing a treadmill test.

_a near-epidemic rise in the use of Ritalin and other stimulants to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Potential recruits are ineligible for military service if they have taken such a drug in the previous year.

Doctors prescribe these drugs to about 2 million children and 1 million adults a month, according to a federal survey. Many more are believed to be using such stimulants recreationally and to stay awake longer to boost academic and physical performance.

Other potential recruits are rejected because they have criminal histories and too many dependents. Subtract 4.4 million from the pool for these people and for the overweight.

Others can be rejected for medical problems, from blindness to asthma. The Army estimate has subtracted 2.6 million for this group.

That leaves 4.3 million fully qualified potential recruits and an estimated 2.3 million more who might qualify if given waivers on some of their problems.

The bottom line: a total 6.6 million potential recruits from all men and women in the 32 million-person age group.

In the budget year that ended last September, 15 percent of recruits required a waiver in order to be accepted for active duty services — or about 11,000 people of some 73,000 recruited.

Most waivers were for medical problems. Some were for misdemeanors such as public drunkenness, resisting arrest or misdemeanor assault — prompting criticism that the Army is lowering its standards.

This year the Army is trying to recruit 80,000 people; all the services are recruiting about 180,000.

And about the tattoos: They are not supposed to be on your neck, refer to gang membership, be offensive, or in any way conflict with military standards on integrity, respect and team work. The military is increasingly giving waivers for some types of tattoos, officials said.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:13:44 PM EDT
This is true.

I've got a BA in History, an MA in History. I've wanted to join since HS and it's always no. Because my eyesight sucks.

Of course, what my glasses would mean in an Intel job, or sitting at a computer screen, or SOMETHING I don't know. They just don't want it.

*shrug*
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:22:31 PM EDT
Stainless steel pins in my knee. No go. I did get a hearty handshake from the Marine recruiter, though.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:24:29 PM EDT
I had a friend who wanted in and had a tatoo removed before he went. No problem.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:24:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:25:51 PM EDT
Red-green colorblind. No go for me either. Nothing other than a desk job anyway.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:26:02 PM EDT
Asthma here.

My Brother-in-law got in to the Corp and he has SEVERAL tattoes though...
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:26:35 PM EDT
they kept stringing me along saying I was not physically fit or medically fit until I ended up on the bus to PI.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:26:42 PM EDT
I have no idea why the military would not want a blind asmatic. Same for someone with a low IQ.


Idiots.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:30:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:30:35 PM EDT
Only think I got a problem is running the mile. I'm working on that right now and should be able to do boot camp with out a problem. I got one more year of high school then im going.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:31:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:32:33 PM EDT
Wait, this thread is starting to worry me. Will bad eyesight (20/400) but correctable to 20/20 with glasses, and slight color blindness, keep me out of a combat MOS?
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:32:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:34:14 PM EDT
There are some people who just DO NOT BELONG in the service...

There were enough ex (for now) drug dealers & street criminals (or at least folks who thought that life was 'cool' enough to lie about having done it) at Ft Eustis for AIT *without* gang tatoos... We even had a guy go visit CID because of his taste in marker-graffiti (they suspected him of being affiliated with the the Latin Kings, The company left a large pad of paper out that alot of the trainees wrote messages & such on - he liked to draw a certain crown-in-a-circle mark, you see)....

Obese is another story.,.. IMHO, if you are 'overfat' (by current standards, you can be overweight but not over-body-fat), they should simply require you to get a higher PT score to be accepted (say, 220 instead of 180)... There are some very 'large' people who can do a whole lot of pushups & situps, but can't pass a tape test....
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:34:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:
This is true.

I've got a BA in History, an MA in History. I've wanted to join since HS and it's always no. Because my eyesight sucks.

Of course, what my glasses would mean in an Intel job, or sitting at a computer screen, or SOMETHING I don't know. They just don't want it.

*shrug*



PRK
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:36:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 4:40:24 PM EDT by 13thWarrior]

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By 13thWarrior:
Only think I got a problem is running the mile. I'm working on that right now and should be able to do boot camp with out a problem. I got one more year of high school then im going.



Good job. Keep it up. Run, run, and run some more. When you're tired of running - run again.



My only other problem is thalassemia I don't have it bad but it I don't know if the marines will take me if I have it.

Edit: Which seems to be some big fuckin screat in my family and no one will tell me how bad I have it.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:37:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
Wait, this thread is starting to worry me. Will bad eyesight (20/400) but correctable to 20/20 with glasses, and slight color blindness, keep me out of a combat MOS?



Color blindness might, but they tell you this BEFORE you sign your contract...

Well, the Army does anyway, since they lock you into a MOS at MEPS (a/o the other services, who send at least a portion of their recruits to BCT without a for-sure job)....

They will tell you weather or not you qualify before you sign... IF that's what you're worried about, just go to MEPS and get the physical - the worst that can happen is they'll say 'sorry, no combat' and you can decide if you want to be aviation (15T & 15U, if you make flight platoon -> Blackhawk & Chinook door gunners), MP, or similar instead....
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:39:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
There are some people who just DO NOT BELONG in the service...

There were enough ex (for now) drug dealers & street criminals (or at least folks who thought that life was 'cool' enough to lie about having done it) at Ft Eustis for AIT *without* gang tatoos... We even had a guy go visit CID because of his taste in marker-graffiti (they suspected him of being affiliated with the the Latin Kings, The company left a large pad of paper out that alot of the trainees wrote messages & such on - he liked to draw a certain crown-in-a-circle mark, you see)....

Obese is another story.,.. IMHO, if you are 'overfat' (by current standards, you can be overweight but not over-body-fat), they should simply require you to get a higher PT score to be accepted (say, 220 instead of 180)... There are some very 'large' people who can do a whole lot of pushups & situps, but can't pass a tape test....





My 19" doesn't give me musch room elsewhere.

But My goal is to enlist within 2006
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:43:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:50:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:53:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:57:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 5:00:43 PM EDT by Spade]

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
Wait, this thread is starting to worry me. Will bad eyesight (20/400) but correctable to 20/20 with glasses, and slight color blindness, keep me out of a combat MOS?




I can't remember the conversion to 20/X measurements, but if your eyes are worse than +- 8.00 diopters, you're fucked. If you get eye surgery and still had that before, you're still fucked. Ask me how I know.


Also, don't get eye surgery before you go in. Do it after. Doing it before will delay things and cause all sorts of medical checks. Do it after and they'll pay for it.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:58:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
Wait, this thread is starting to worry me. Will bad eyesight (20/400) but correctable to 20/20 with glasses, and slight color blindness, keep me out of a combat MOS?



Color blindness might, but they tell you this BEFORE you sign your contract...

Well, the Army does anyway, since they lock you into a MOS at MEPS (a/o the other services, who send at least a portion of their recruits to BCT without a for-sure job)....

They will tell you weather or not you qualify before you sign... IF that's what you're worried about, just go to MEPS and get the physical - the worst that can happen is they'll say 'sorry, no combat' and you can decide if you want to be aviation (15T & 15U, if you make flight platoon -> Blackhawk & Chinook door gunners), MP, or similar instead....



thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:59:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
All you people talking about this stuff are crazy.
You go into the Chapter 2 physical.
doc, "any ailments?
you, "Nope!"
doc, "Great, now walk like a duck, naked."
Its only a problem if they know about it.
Once you are in, EVERYTHING IS WAIVERABLE




4.) Posting comments or links in support of illegal activities including, but not limited to, threats against the life of any living person, doing harm to a state or federal official, or advocating the overthrow of the government.




Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:59:53 PM EDT
Have mitral-valve prolapse with no aortic regurgitation and horrible vision.

I'll get news back about if they accept me by this Tuesday.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:00:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
All you people talking about this stuff are crazy.
You go into the Chapter 2 physical.
doc, "any ailments?
you, "Nope!"
doc, "Great, now walk like a duck, naked."
Its only a problem if they know about it.
Once you are in, EVERYTHING IS WAIVERABLE



Umm...WTF?
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:01:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:02:23 PM EDT

I have no idea if I'd be medically fit to go in. The only thing I've looked at in any serious way is navy nuke, and the age limit excludes me. I'm 29, they want 26 or below.

Jim
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:02:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
Wait, this thread is starting to worry me. Will bad eyesight (20/400) but correctable to 20/20 with glasses, and slight color blindness, keep me out of a combat MOS?



As long as they can correct it to 20/20 they are typically happy.

Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:02:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 5:03:40 PM EDT by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
All you people talking about this stuff are crazy.
You go into the Chapter 2 physical.
doc, "any ailments?
you, "Nope!"
doc, "Great, now walk like a duck, naked."
Its only a problem if they know about it.
Once you are in, EVERYTHING IS WAIVERABLE



+1

If it's bad, they'll find it. If it's not, then don't sweat it and don't fess up.



+1

But they do give you a color vision & eye test - that's the one thing you cannot bullshit your way around...

Correctable vision -> good, but you get those infamous butt-ugly glasses (untill the replacements come out - they ARE finally getting rid of the BCGs)...
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:04:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
All you people talking about this stuff are crazy.
You go into the Chapter 2 physical.
doc, "any ailments?
you, "Nope!"
doc, "Great, now walk like a duck, naked."
Its only a problem if they know about it.
Once you are in, EVERYTHING IS WAIVERABLE


The Marine recruiter asked me a bunch of questions. As soon as he learned of my surgery and stainless pins, he said all bets were off and that no service would take anyone with metal pins in their body.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:05:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Its only a problem if they know about it.
Once you are in, EVERYTHING IS WAIVERABLE


+1

If it's bad, they'll find it. If it's not, then don't sweat it and don't fess up.


Kinda hard to miss a six inch scar on my knee.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:06:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
All you people talking about this stuff are crazy.
You go into the Chapter 2 physical.
doc, "any ailments?
you, "Nope!"
doc, "Great, now walk like a duck, naked."
Its only a problem if they know about it.
Once you are in, EVERYTHING IS WAIVERABLE




4.) Posting comments or links in support of illegal activities including, but not limited to, threats against the life of any living person, doing harm to a state or federal official, or advocating the overthrow of the government.







Hardly doing harm to anyone... It's just the way things work...

I highly doubt anyone who's been in the service is going to call that advice against the COC...
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:07:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 5:08:36 PM EDT by MTShawn]

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
All you people talking about this stuff are crazy.
You go into the Chapter 2 physical.
doc, "any ailments?
you, "Nope!"
doc, "Great, now walk like a duck, naked."
Its only a problem if they know about it.
Once you are in, EVERYTHING IS WAIVERABLE




4.) Posting comments or links in support of illegal activities including, but not limited to, threats against the life of any living person, doing harm to a state or federal official, or advocating the overthrow of the government.







Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:08:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
All you people talking about this stuff are crazy.
You go into the Chapter 2 physical.
doc, "any ailments?
you, "Nope!"
doc, "Great, now walk like a duck, naked."
Its only a problem if they know about it.
Once you are in, EVERYTHING IS WAIVERABLE




4.) Posting comments or links in support of illegal activities including, but not limited to, threats against the life of any living person, doing harm to a state or federal official, or advocating the overthrow of the government.







Hardly doing harm to anyone... It's just the way things work...

I highly doubt anyone who's been in the service is going to call that advice against the COC...



alright

while its indeed an american tradition to lie about age/medical condition/etc to join the service, i was always under the impression that nowadays it can be big big trouble if you do.

maybe i would have been able to get in if i hadn't been so damn honest on all the medical forms
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:13:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ffsparky26:

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
Wait, this thread is starting to worry me. Will bad eyesight (20/400) but correctable to 20/20 with glasses, and slight color blindness, keep me out of a combat MOS?



As long as they can correct it to 20/20 they are typically happy.





If it's over +- 8.00 diopters they will not take you even if it is totally correctable.


I forget what 20/400 translates to, but I think it's okay.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:44:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:55:16 PM EDT
Diabetics are out, too. That's a pretty big chunk.


Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
All you people talking about this stuff are crazy.
You go into the Chapter 2 physical.
doc, "any ailments?
you, "Nope!"
doc, "Great, now walk like a duck, naked."
Its only a problem if they know about it.
Once you are in, EVERYTHING IS WAIVERABLE



Umm...WTF?



Ah, the calisthenics. 30 guys in boxers hopping on one foot, walking like a duck with your hands up like you're surrendering. They didn't like my quip that I wanted to join the US Military, not the French one.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:04:01 PM EDT
The guard wouldn't take me back in to go with the local unit to the sandbox.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:00:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
All you people talking about this stuff are crazy.
You go into the Chapter 2 physical.
doc, "any ailments?
you, "Nope!"
doc, "Great, now walk like a duck, naked."
Its only a problem if they know about it.
Once you are in, EVERYTHING IS WAIVERABLE




4.) Posting comments or links in support of illegal activities including, but not limited to, threats against the life of any living person, doing harm to a state or federal official, or advocating the overthrow of the government.







Hardly doing harm to anyone... It's just the way things work...

I highly doubt anyone who's been in the service is going to call that advice against the COC...



Umm YES it is a big problem. LEGALLY, MORALLY, and Practically - It's advocating falsifying official documents, and if the big green big blue or whichever finds out you lied on your enlistment, they can shit can you right out the front door, maybe prosecute you, eliminate for several years the possibility of a clearance (and the neat jobs that can come with one) or in the case of a contract the enlistee breached, sent him or her off to whatever career field the service thinks they need and haven't been getting enough volunteers for.

Yes, once you're in, an emergent issue (defined as previously unknown) can often be waivered or otherwise worked around. If it was lied about, it's a whole new ball of wax.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:03:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
All you people talking about this stuff are crazy.
You go into the Chapter 2 physical.
doc, "any ailments?
you, "Nope!"
doc, "Great, now walk like a duck, naked."
Its only a problem if they know about it.
Once you are in, EVERYTHING IS WAIVERABLE



Umm...WTF?



kind of a quick visual check on physical abilities and evidence of possible problems. Like a guy I went through AFEES (early version of MEPS) with, "Wave your hands" "What happened to your hand?" "Well, Doc, I was stuffing match heads in a CO2 cylinder and it blew my fingers off." "OK, Thank you, put your clothes on. Any more idiots in this group?"
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:08:50 PM EDT
I had dislocated my shoulder in my sophomore year. Fessed up and went through a full ortho work-up, including strength, range of motion and radiography. Passed with flying colors.

If you say anything regarding ortho problems, they WILL try to DQ you on it.

Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:57:30 PM EDT
Hmmm.... why wouldn't the military want people with medical problems that could cause them to not fulfill their missions. Why wouldn't I want to be in a truck next to somebody that I might have to carry because their knee, or heart, or whatever gave out when the convoy was ambushed, while taking them to their "desk job". Why wouldn't anybody want a soilder that MUST wear glasses to be able to see around them in the event that something happens, and their glasses just might get broken or lost? Gee I don't know. I can only guess that it has to do with the fact that even in this day and age, the primary purpose of all occupations, in all branches of the military is to kill other people, and anything that detracts from that is a bad thing.


OR it could also be that if the problem gets worse, and the military doesn't know it was there before, they (or the VA anyway) will have to pay for the disability.

Or even a little of both.

Take your pick.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:02:44 PM EDT
New regulation states you can have a tatoo on your face if you want, they still take you.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:15:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By TheFreepster:
Wait, this thread is starting to worry me. Will bad eyesight (20/400) but correctable to 20/20 with glasses, and slight color blindness, keep me out of a combat MOS?




I can't remember the conversion to 20/X measurements, but if your eyes are worse than +- 8.00 diopters, you're fucked. If you get eye surgery and still had that before, you're still fucked. Ask me how I know.


Also, don't get eye surgery before you go in. Do it after. Doing it before will delay things and cause all sorts of medical checks. Do it after and they'll pay for it.

Or, get your eyes zapped by a good doctor, don't tell the MEPS doctor, pass their tests with flying colors, and nobody is the wiser.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:18:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:24:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yfs200:
Red-green colorblind. No go for me either. Nothing other than a desk job anyway.



I knew a guy from 3rd Ranger Bat with red-green color blindness.

The only job the Army would offer him was 75 something (Admin weenie). He researched and found out the MOS was in Ranger Battalion S1 shops. He went to RIP. He got assigned to S1. He volunteered to fill a line slot for a broken Ranger (coincidentally, much of the S1 apparenlty was filled with deadlined Rangers, with the MOS-trained guys filling their original positions, so he said). He spent a few years humpin g a ruck, even went to Hooah school and pinned on SGT whil in the Battalion.

MTOE changed, and he left - when I met him he was a genral officer's driver. Not sure what he is doing now.

My point is - sounds like you found an excuse and embraced it. There really are no "desk jobs" in the Army. Many desk warriors wish that was all there was to their jobs, because they are pogues at heart. The truth is, the desk-only jobs are civilian jobs. Every soldier needs to be be able to shoot, move, and communicate as needed, and any one willing to volunteer can always get out from behind a desk when there is work to be done.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:59:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
They recently changed the tattoo standard. As long as the ink doesn't represent gang affiliation, you're GTG.



I was told also it couldnt be visable while in uniform.

but the staples in my ankles is what disqualifed me
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 10:07:11 PM EDT
I've always wanted to join the Army. Scoliosis, asthma and tachycardia prevents me from doing so - seriously.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 10:12:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 10:13:44 PM EDT by Spade]

Originally Posted By voilsb:
Or, get your eyes zapped by a good doctor, don't tell the MEPS doctor, pass their tests with flying colors, and nobody is the wiser.




Local Navy recruiter had me |-| this close to doing that. Figured that the Navy docs wouldn't notice if I enlisted.

I pointed out that
a)I already had a file at DODMERB from USNA applications
b)The Navy might try and make me an officer since I had a BA, and then they'd damn sure notice the DODMERB file.

Although by now they may have thrown that out.


Either way, I'm pretty happy making my contribution to the defense of the country from the deskbound civilian contractor side, even as just an intern right now. Pays better, less bullshit it seems from what I hear from my friends. Lots of ways to contribute.
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