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Posted: 1/18/2015 11:34:29 PM EST
On phone, so no hotlink...

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/01/16/michigan-hunter-poaching-fine/21855827/

Basically, man poached an 18point buck, receives 15k fine and 90 day suspended sentence.

Big money, big money, no whammy...stop?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:35:12 PM EST
Good.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:38:04 PM EST
How much for poaching a BigFoot?

Play the game expect the fine!
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:41:02 PM EST
Should have to serve that 90 days.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:41:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 11:44:09 PM EST by stillerfan]
That's excessive for someone shooting one over the limit. That's a deer of a lifetime. There are a lot of people who make the same shot. Although I didn't shoot the 3 beautiful bucks I saw in doe season the adrenaline dump makes it difficult to hold back.

So he was in the woods with nothing to shoot? He intended to poach?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:43:54 PM EST
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Originally Posted By stillerfan:
That's excessive for someone shooting one over the limit. That's a deer of a lifetime. There are a lot of people who make the same shot. Although I didn't shoot the 3 beautiful bucks I saw in doe season the adrenaline dump makes it difficult to hold back.
View Quote


Strongly disagree. In my mind, $15K sounds about right. Fuck poachers. And anyone who can't control their trigger finger at the sight of a buck has no place out in the woods.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:45:14 PM EST
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Originally Posted By AeroEngineer:


Strongly disagree. In my mind, $15K sounds about right. Fuck poachers. And anyone who can't control their trigger finger at the sight of a buck has no place out in the woods.
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Originally Posted By AeroEngineer:
Originally Posted By stillerfan:
That's excessive for someone shooting one over the limit. That's a deer of a lifetime. There are a lot of people who make the same shot. Although I didn't shoot the 3 beautiful bucks I saw in doe season the adrenaline dump makes it difficult to hold back.


Strongly disagree. In my mind, $15K sounds about right. Fuck poachers. And anyone who can't control their trigger finger at the sight of a buck has no place out in the woods.

/thread
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:46:11 PM EST
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Originally Posted By OptionZero:

/thread
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Originally Posted By OptionZero:
Originally Posted By AeroEngineer:
Originally Posted By stillerfan:
That's excessive for someone shooting one over the limit. That's a deer of a lifetime. There are a lot of people who make the same shot. Although I didn't shoot the 3 beautiful bucks I saw in doe season the adrenaline dump makes it difficult to hold back.


Strongly disagree. In my mind, $15K sounds about right. Fuck poachers. And anyone who can't control their trigger finger at the sight of a buck has no place out in the woods.

/thread


This. Fuck poachers and those who feel they are above conservation laws.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:46:37 PM EST
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Originally Posted By stillerfan:
That's excessive for someone shooting one over the limit. That's a deer of a lifetime.
View Quote


Great logic there. Maybe I should go steal my dream car. If I had one.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:46:55 PM EST
How is the state of Michigan out $15,000 for one deer?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:47:02 PM EST
Please educate a non-hunter. So you are only allowed to shoot and kill a certain amount of deer? What's the difference and why does it matter? Serious question.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:49:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By JLH3:
Good.
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:49:37 PM EST
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Originally Posted By OptionZero:

/thread
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Originally Posted By OptionZero:
Originally Posted By AeroEngineer:
Originally Posted By stillerfan:
That's excessive for someone shooting one over the limit. That's a deer of a lifetime. There are a lot of people who make the same shot. Although I didn't shoot the 3 beautiful bucks I saw in doe season the adrenaline dump makes it difficult to hold back.


Strongly disagree. In my mind, $15K sounds about right. Fuck poachers. And anyone who can't control their trigger finger at the sight of a buck has no place out in the woods.

/thread


I just know how it feels to see a deer like that and you can't take it. I would never shoot something like that. It's stupid and not worth the consequences but I can see how people would. Jail time for it? That's pretty tough.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:51:42 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
How is the state of Michigan out $15,000 for one deer?
View Quote


No, a poacher is out $15,000 for one deer.

If there wasn't a penalty for breaking laws, would most people follow them?
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:53:22 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Tweek218:
Please educate a non-hunter. So you are only allowed to shoot and kill a certain amount of deer? What's the difference and why does it matter? Serious question.
View Quote

The limits set are for population control, to make sure there will be deer for the future hunters to take. Different states(and counties inside of states) have different laws(and bag limits) regarding hunting wildlife.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:53:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2015 11:57:40 PM EST by texassooner]
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Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
How is the state of Michigan out $15,000 for one deer?
View Quote



Because that is what that deer is worth. The fine is not to reimburse the government, it's to reimburse the public for theft of its animal. The exact same as if someone shot one of your cows.

Eta: go look up livestock prices for largewhite tail bucks. $15k is not outrageous at all. People pay more than that literally all the time to shoot large bucks on managed ranches.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:53:43 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
How is the state of Michigan out $15,000 for one deer?
View Quote


Revenue from sportsmen. If you let people poach with no harsh consequences you will have less people buying licenses to hunt. That would cost most states a lot of money.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:54:45 PM EST
Fuck that thief.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:55:18 PM EST
Saw 5 deer go by this morning in a field behind my house. They were all about 75 yards away. Was the first time that I had seen them in my neck of the woods.

Could have done the deed but didn`t know if deer season was even open this time of year in my area.

I don`t deer hunt so know nothing about regulations.

I do know though, would like to try some deer jerky sometime.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:56:04 PM EST
The guy knew what he did when he shot the deer , Fuck him . He learned a lesson
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:56:08 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tweek218:
Please educate a non-hunter. So you are only allowed to shoot and kill a certain amount of deer? What's the difference and why does it matter? Serious question.
View Quote



Easiest way to say it is that there has to be limits so that the animals aren't hunted to extinction. There are number limits so someone can't wipe out an entire herd. There are seasons so that they have time to breed and have offspring.
Link Posted: 1/18/2015 11:56:28 PM EST
I used to see a bumper sticker around the BC lower mainland. "Poachers are thieves, shoot them."
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 12:00:37 AM EST
Good.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 12:14:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 12:15:54 AM EST by ShadowsNight]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stillerfan:


I just know how it feels to see a deer like that and you can't take it. I would never shoot something like that. It's stupid and not worth the consequences but I can see how people would. Jail time for it? That's pretty tough.
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Originally Posted By stillerfan:
Originally Posted By OptionZero:
Originally Posted By AeroEngineer:
Originally Posted By stillerfan:
That's excessive for someone shooting one over the limit. That's a deer of a lifetime. There are a lot of people who make the same shot. Although I didn't shoot the 3 beautiful bucks I saw in doe season the adrenaline dump makes it difficult to hold back.


Strongly disagree. In my mind, $15K sounds about right. Fuck poachers. And anyone who can't control their trigger finger at the sight of a buck has no place out in the woods.

/thread


I just know how it feels to see a deer like that and you can't take it. I would never shoot something like that. It's stupid and not worth the consequences but I can see how people would. Jail time for it? That's pretty tough.


Fuck poachers, here you get caught your likely to loose the deer you shot, the rifle you used to shoot it, the truck you hauled it home with, and quite possibly anything else they deem "evidence"all that ontop of the fines and or jail time.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 12:17:32 AM EST
Sadly, I can see those inclined towards poaching, and those sympathetic towards that kind if thief.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 12:18:35 AM EST
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Originally Posted By renegade509:


Revenue from sportsmen. If you let people poach with no harsh consequences you will have less people buying licenses to hunt. That would cost most states a lot of money.
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Originally Posted By renegade509:
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
How is the state of Michigan out $15,000 for one deer?


Revenue from sportsmen. If you let people poach with no harsh consequences you will have less people buying licenses to hunt. That would cost most states a lot of money.


I'm sure thats the reason, not because the fees from licenses go towards improvements and public land conservation, right?
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 2:35:54 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Mattyvac:


I'm sure thats the reason, not because the fees from licenses go towards improvements and public land conservation, right?
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Originally Posted By Mattyvac:
Originally Posted By renegade509:
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
How is the state of Michigan out $15,000 for one deer?


Revenue from sportsmen. If you let people poach with no harsh consequences you will have less people buying licenses to hunt. That would cost most states a lot of money.


I'm sure thats the reason, not because the fees from licenses go towards improvements and public land conservation, right?


You are correct, fees from licenses do go towards conservation and management of wildlife. What I was saying is if there is no penalty or a very low penalty for poaching, many would not care to purchase a license. Thus the state would be out lots of lost revenue from those sales. These license revenues do go toward managing wildlife and conservation efforts, but that all comes out of the States budget for such things.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 2:42:23 AM EST
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Originally Posted By JLH3:
Good.
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 2:48:35 AM EST
18 point buck? I didn't know that existed, my best is eleven.

I don't believe that would be worth 15k but it sure would be cool to see.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 2:52:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 2:53:58 AM EST
Hotlink. NARF!!
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 2:55:58 AM EST
follow the damn rules
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 2:56:07 AM EST
From the article:

/snip
Lt. Arthur Green, Michigan Department of Natural Resources district law supervisor for District 9, said the hefty restitution fee is a result of new state laws to deter poaching of trophy bucks.

Public Act 175 of 2013 went into effect in February 2014. Instead of a flat restitution fee of $1,000, the fine increases depending on the deer's antlers. The changes include:

¦ The base fee for poaching any deer, with or without antlers, is $1,000.

¦ Someone who poaches an antlered deer pays an additional restitution of $1,000.

¦ For an antlered deer with 8 to 10 points, another $500 per point is added to the restitution.

¦ For an antlered deer with 11 or more points, an additional $750 per point is added to the restitution.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 2:56:22 AM EST
Unless that buck was on someones for profit hunting operation, that's an outrageous fine for poaching a horned forest rat.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 2:57:39 AM EST
Good. And I'm glad it was $15K. This wasn't some guy shooting a doe or button buck to fill his freezer, it was some jack ass poaching a trophy buck because it was a trophy buck.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 3:03:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 3:06:44 AM EST by ICEAGE]
Originally Posted By Tweek218:
Please educate a non-hunter. So you are only allowed to shoot and kill a certain amount of deer? What's the difference and why does it matter? Serious question.
View Quote

Hunting is strictly regulated for a few reasons. Too many or too few of a certain species killed can actually be harmful for the ecosystem. You get too many of an animal and you've food shortages, they become nuisance/hazards for humans, in some cases certain species can kill off plant life of certain species, etc. You kill to many and it can seriously screw with the ecosystem/population. Wild hogs and Nutria for example almost need to be completely eradicated from existence in the US. In some places its more pressing then others. Which is why in some places the killing of these animals are either unregulated or in some cases encouraged by the government. (Cash for kill deals)



I've hunted land that suffered from poachers and we hunted several years before we ever saw a single deer on the property (not even joking). 15+ Years of wildlife management programs and the populations still aren't up to par in the area....


Some people literally don't care and will kill indiscriminately. Its a pretty big deal. There have been severe cases of homes, vehicles, ATVs, boats, all firearms, etc. being seized by wildlife and fisheries.... Poachers know the consequences of what they are doing they just weigh the risk vs reward so I really don't feel sorry if they lose everything they own.


In some countries poachers are executed in the field. (Seriously). Granted, in those countries a lot of those poachers will kill any LE/military that catches them if they can.

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 3:27:11 AM EST
I do not condone poaching, but the DNR in almost every state has way to much power. $15k is getting into cruel and unusual punishment territory. Deer are becoming a nuisance animal everywhere.

Going to have to disagree with this "justice".
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 3:31:41 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 4:01:59 AM EST
90 day suspended sentence.?
Should be permanent. Poachers suck balls.

However, about 50 miles from here in a small country town those folks are so poor they need to hunt year around to eat. I have no problem with that.
Did you know native Americans can hunt deer starting September 1 in my state- that ain't right , Casino millionaires don't need "special rights"
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 4:14:50 AM EST
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Originally Posted By quartermaster:
90 day suspended sentence.?
Should be permanent. Poachers suck balls.

However, about 50 miles from here in a small country town those folks are so poor they need to hunt year around to eat. I have no problem with that.
Did you know native Americans can hunt deer starting September 1 in my state- that ain't right , Casino millionaires don't need "special rights"
View Quote
Its funny you think any tribal members are making millions from casinos.

Been on a rez lately?

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 4:30:00 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 3O8junkie:
Its funny you think any tribal members are making millions from casinos.

Been on a rez lately?

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Originally Posted By 3O8junkie:
Originally Posted By quartermaster:
90 day suspended sentence.?
Should be permanent. Poachers suck balls.

However, about 50 miles from here in a small country town those folks are so poor they need to hunt year around to eat. I have no problem with that.
Did you know native Americans can hunt deer starting September 1 in my state- that ain't right , Casino millionaires don't need "special rights"
Its funny you think any tribal members are making millions from casinos.

Been on a rez lately?



It depends on the tribe, but you're right. None of them are millionaires. Not around here anyways. The vast majority don't make shit. Select few make a good deal of money. The major casino tribe here in Wisconsin pay their tribe members over $50,000 a year for off res members. More for those who live on the res. My buddy is a Ojibwe from northern Wi and he doesn't get a penny.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 4:40:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 6:33:43 AM EST by Modly]
As a former Michigan resident, I would like to play the devil's advocate here.

The article states "Third deer of the season". I'm going to guess that this meant he was arrested during season (Opens 15 Nov each year, can last up to a month). In most of Michigan, you can buy up to two deer tags per day of the season. This changes from year to year and varies from each county. There were seven counties in MI that had a five deer tag per day limit. It has gotten bad enough that some cities have opened up in city limits hunting, and a few more are considering it.

I'm curious what he was actually guilty of. Did he hit his tag limit, see another deer and take it out? I want more details.

Fuck poachers, praise the thin deer line, etc and all that other normal stuff, but deer in Michigan are a fucking pest. If he shot it in season before the quota was reached, he was doing his state a service. When I can no longer count the number of people who have suffered accidents with deer in that state, even in city limits... That shit is a problem.

EDITED;
Mistaken, combo of old info/poor memory. They are still a pest though. They poach themselves on cars year round.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 4:47:52 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Modly:
As a former Michigan resident, I would like to play the devil's advocate here.

The article states "Third deer of the season". I'm going to guess that this meant he was arrested during season (Opens 15 Nov each year, can last up to a month). In most of Michigan, you can buy up to two deer tags per day of the season. This changes from year to year and varies from each county. There were seven counties in MI that had a five deer tag per day limit. It has gotten bad enough that some cities have opened up in city limits hunting, and a few more are considering it.

I'm curious what he was actually guilty of. Did he hit his tag limit, see another deer and take it out? I want more details.

Fuck poachers, praise the thin deer line, etc and all that other normal stuff, but deer in Michigan are a fucking pest. If he shot it in season before the quota was reached, he was doing his state a service. When I can no longer count the number of people who have suffered accidents with deer in that state, even in city limits... That shit is a problem.
View Quote


Are you saying that in MI you can legally take up to 60 deer each season? Or more?

They're pests here too and in lots of areas they should be shot on sight. But the regulations don't allow it. And it sounds like this is a case where shithead saw a once in lifetime buck and just couldn't restrain himself from poaching it out of season. So fuck him.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 5:06:53 AM EST
Good, hit him hard, it is not okay to do this.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 5:09:18 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tweek218:
Please educate a non-hunter. So you are only allowed to shoot and kill a certain amount of deer? What's the difference and why does it matter? Serious question.
View Quote


The idea is to harvest a sustainable resource, not eradicate the species.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 5:10:09 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 5:12:21 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Modly:
As a former Michigan resident, I would like to play the devil's advocate here.

The article states "Third deer of the season". I'm going to guess that this meant he was arrested during season (Opens 15 Nov each year, can last up to a month). In most of Michigan, you can buy up to two deer tags per day of the season. This changes from year to year and varies from each county. There were seven counties in MI that had a five deer tag per day limit. It has gotten bad enough that some cities have opened up in city limits hunting, and a few more are considering it.

I'm curious what he was actually guilty of. Did he hit his tag limit, see another deer and take it out? I want more details.

Fuck poachers, praise the thin deer line, etc and all that other normal stuff, but deer in Michigan are a fucking pest. If he shot it in season before the quota was reached, he was doing his state a service. When I can no longer count the number of people who have suffered accidents with deer in that state, even in city limits... That shit is a problem.
View Quote


Not sure how long ago you left MI, but in the five years I just spent there, you could purchase two tags for the SEASON. They were good for antlered or non in any combination during archery season, and antlered only during firearm or muzzleloader. Each county sold a limited number of doe tags on top of that, or if you knew a farmer etc you could get depredation tags from them. But as far as general public, you got two tags per year.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 5:18:31 AM EST
I'm ok with the fine & 90 day suspended sentence.

Our season limits are good as well though I'd prefer to see QDM limits put in place in the northern 2/3 of the state. No doe tags for a couple years, bucks only - 3 points on one side. In the U.P., ONE antlered buck with 4 points or more on one side per hunter - period.

Southern MI still has an abundance of deer & 3-4 legal tags per season is not unreasonable. Not so for the rest of the state.

Over the past 20 years our DNR has set a course to reduce (read:eradicate) the deer herd. Introduction of wolves, a few harsh winters & excessive numbers of tags issued have decimated the herd. Allowing "hunting" over bait has had a detrimental effect as well. Too many people simply ambush a deer rather than scout/track/hunt.

Much of the U.P. has gone from quality hunting to being lucky if you see a deer or two during season.

5-6 years ago there was a very overly dramatized concern about Bovine TB in the deer herd in NEMI & it was pretty much shoot anything brown for a couple years. Now, nearly no deer to be found in that zone.

2-3 years ago the newest Chicken Little scare was CWD in central MI. Again, an over reaction & issuing of too many licenses. Now, fewer deer. All because ONE deer belonging to a licensed breeder tested positive. The DNR's reaction - kill darn near every deer held in private hands in 5 counties. No testing for CWD, just kill "to prevent the spread of the disease".

Poachers are a small part of the problem. Our DNR - with the coercive force of government behind it - is a bigger threat to wildlife.

Link Posted: 1/19/2015 5:27:34 AM EST
Poachers are looked down upon in Michigan.

We hate them.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 6:03:44 AM EST
Just curious, how did he get caught ? Did someone rat him out ? Or was he seen by a game warden.
Link Posted: 1/19/2015 6:09:31 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stillerfan:
That's excessive for someone shooting one over the limit. That's a deer of a lifetime. There are a lot of people who make the same shot. Although I didn't shoot the 3 beautiful bucks I saw in doe season the adrenaline dump makes it difficult to hold back.

So he was in the woods with nothing to shoot? He intended to poach?
View Quote


reacting on emotion is not something condoned here... so screw poachers

They also do this to send a message to other would-be poachers... that message is "F@#$%^ YOU!".... so screw poachers

That buck was SOMEONE ELSE"S buck of a lifetime and he stole it.... screw poachers
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