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Posted: 3/14/2011 7:42:48 PM EST
No, not marital law, martial law..

Sweeping power over lesser governmental entities. Autonomous rule, as it were over state denizens.

Link Posted: 3/14/2011 8:02:43 PM EST
nice. glad i dont live in that fuck hole. may fuck be upon all of them for electing the kinds of worhtless cunts that would pull stupid shit like that. they deserve it
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 8:16:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2011 8:17:29 PM EST by tesla120]
sooo a state that cant manage its own money is going to try to manage the money of cities that cant manage their money?



this should be interesting.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 8:22:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By fireputrouter:
nice. glad i dont live in that fuck hole. may fuck be upon all of them for electing the kinds of worhtless cunts that would pull stupid shit like that. they deserve it

thanks.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 9:18:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2011 9:18:45 PM EST by Dragracer]

Originally Posted By tesla120:
sooo a state that cant manage its own money is going to try to manage the money of cities that cant manage their money?



this should be interesting.
What could possibly go wrong?

When people get elected it is like they contract a disease where they suddenly believe that all the new laws they pass will fix everything that the last 100 years of laws have screwed up.


Link Posted: 3/14/2011 9:24:36 PM EST
I would have thought arfcom would love this, its all about taking over governments, firing all kinds of government employees, closing down government institutions and in some cases doing away with school districts and towns. Same shit that is advocated on arfcom daily.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 9:26:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By CujoTwoOne:

Originally Posted By fireputrouter:
nice. glad i dont live in that fuck hole. may fuck be upon all of them for electing the kinds of worhtless cunts that would pull stupid shit like that. they deserve it

thanks.


You know that you can leave right?

I am from Michigan, left in 1998. It kills me to see family and friends that are in dire straights, but yet refuse to look out side of the state for employment.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 9:33:33 PM EST
Eh, I read it as Martian law. Would have been MUCH cooler.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 9:40:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/14/2011 10:09:46 PM EST by Kevyn]
I read the article. Interesting to say the least.

How are the 'financial managers' different from the 'czars' appointed by the kenyan?

the 'czars' have a much further reaching empowerment, especially at their federal level as compared to the managers focused at a specific location with responsibility for an outcome.

I don't recall the AFL-CIO objecting, ever, to the czar appointments.

The financial managers and czars are wholly unaccountable to the electorate. They're appointed 'officials' who 'trough' on the taxpayers dime.

At least the financial managers can be removed by the state legislature. Not so for the czars...

...but it's right wing tyranny in Michigan...
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 9:42:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By Guntoter:
I would have thought arfcom would love this, its all about taking over governments, firing all kinds of government employees, closing down government institutions and in some cases doing away with school districts and towns. Same shit that is advocated on arfcom daily.


It's about centralization, which is decried on arfcom. please read before you blather.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:23:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By R_Fury:
Originally Posted By CujoTwoOne:

Originally Posted By fireputrouter:
nice. glad i dont live in that fuck hole. may fuck be upon all of them for electing the kinds of worhtless cunts that would pull stupid shit like that. they deserve it

thanks.


You know that you can leave right?

I am from Michigan, left in 1998. It kills me to see family and friends that are in dire straights, but yet refuse to look out side of the state for employment.


In their defense, it would be a cold day in hell before I would follow you to bum-fucked Nebraska too.... Just sayin'.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:25:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Originally Posted By R_Fury:
Originally Posted By CujoTwoOne:

Originally Posted By fireputrouter:
nice. glad i dont live in that fuck hole. may fuck be upon all of them for electing the kinds of worhtless cunts that would pull stupid shit like that. they deserve it

thanks.


You know that you can leave right?

I am from Michigan, left in 1998. It kills me to see family and friends that are in dire straights, but yet refuse to look out side of the state for employment.


In their defense, it would be a cold day in hell before I would follow you to bum-fucked Nebraska too.... Just sayin'.


Well I didn't leave to go to Nebraska, I just ended up here.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:27:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By Guntoter:
I would have thought arfcom would love this, its all about taking over governments, firing all kinds of government employees, closing down government institutions and in some cases doing away with school districts and towns. Same shit that is advocated on arfcom daily.

yeah and replacing it with a centralized MORE wasteful, MORE dysfunctional an in the end FAR MORE expensive as well as redistributive government .


You haven't been paying much attention to what is advocated here. bigger more powerful centralized government is NOT it.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:46:28 PM EST
Just one step closer to full on martial law...FEMA's gonna be knocking down your doors and grabbing your guns...all the while the NWO is inching closer to bankrupting the country and destroying the middle class.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 10:56:43 PM EST
The problem is city governments in Detroit and Flint have been so inept and corrupt that there needs to be a mechanism whereby an actual adult with the ability to add and subtract can effectively turn things around. Once the municipalities are solvent, they will be returned to the electorate to bankrupt the cities once again.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 11:06:32 PM EST
i sense this will go down in flamees in court...
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:11:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cypher15:
i sense this will go down in flamees in court...

Maybe. The picture in the article made me think of mafiosos splitting up their territories in one of their meetings of the Capos.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:23:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By Skunkeye:
The problem is city governments in Detroit and Flint have been so inept and corrupt that there needs to be a mechanism whereby an actual adult with the ability to add and subtract can effectively turn things around. Once the municipalities are solvent, they will be returned to the electorate to bankrupt the cities once again.



Thats pretty much my take on it. Gotta remember,, the folks down in Detroit would still be voting for Kwame if they could.

Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:49:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By jbweld:
Originally Posted By Skunkeye:
The problem is city governments in Detroit and Flint have been so inept and corrupt that there needs to be a mechanism whereby an actual adult with the ability to add and subtract can effectively turn things around. Once the municipalities are solvent, they will be returned to the electorate to bankrupt the cities once again.



Thats pretty much my take on it. Gotta remember,, the folks down in Detroit would still be voting for Kwame if they could.



This is why we get stuck with crap like Granholm and obunghole.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:55:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By fireputrouter:
nice. glad i dont live in that fuck hole. may fuck be upon all of them for electing the kinds of worhtless cunts that would pull stupid shit like that. they deserve it


Your ignorance is a blessing to us all.

Yeah, "we" conservatives held our noses and elected Snyder. NONE of us expected this. I figured he was a RINO but I had no idea just how much of one he was. Ask me how I didn't know? The guy rode out of nowhere, put next to NO information on his website, only engaged in one debate...

MI has open primaries so the Dems - seeing the writing on the wall, that MI was going to swing Conservative in the last election - decided to all go vote for Snyder. I voted for a guy named Cox (decent pro 2/a guy) but the Dems beat us at our own game. There were two better candidates than Snyder but we got stuck with him. And now we all reap the benefits of the Democrats' perfidy.

Now they can claim "Yeah, we gave the Republican guy a chance and look what he did..." next election.

If I could sell my house I'd move out of this state...
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:56:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By R_Fury:
Originally Posted By CujoTwoOne:

Originally Posted By fireputrouter:
nice. glad i dont live in that fuck hole. may fuck be upon all of them for electing the kinds of worhtless cunts that would pull stupid shit like that. they deserve it

thanks.


You know that you can leave right?

I am from Michigan, left in 1998. It kills me to see family and friends that are in dire straights, but yet refuse to look out side of the state for employment.


Do they have houses here?
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:57:59 AM EST
Well I saw this coming.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:00:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By Skunkeye:
The problem is city governments in Detroit and Flint have been so inept and corrupt that there needs to be a mechanism whereby an actual adult with the ability to add and subtract can effectively turn things around. Once the municipalities are solvent, they will be returned to the electorate to bankrupt the cities once again.


From what I understand this is the reason for the bill. These two cities alone are dragging this state down with them, and it simply must be stopped somehow.
Whether I agree with the complete bill, I don't know yet.

Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:02:34 AM EST
He's a UMich grad, right?
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:04:52 AM EST
For what it’s worth… Local government are the creation of the state. And the legitimacy of local governments comes from the state too. Local governments are not sovereign entities.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:06:18 AM EST
Granholm left that state in a completely non-functional mess.

I can't blame the current Governor/State Legislature for wanting some strong tools to cut out the rot.

Most of the large cities (Detroit, Pontiac, Flint, Saginaw, Lansing, etc) in MI are union infested shit-holes.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:08:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By Skunkeye:
The problem is city governments in Detroit and Flint have been so inept and corrupt that there needs to be a mechanism whereby an actual adult with the ability to add and subtract can effectively turn things around. Once the municipalities are solvent, they will be returned to the electorate to bankrupt the cities once again.


Exactly.

For example, the City of Detroit owns the Water System for the entire metro area.

They manage it horribly (don't do proper maintenance, can't account for funds, constantly beg for rate increases) yet resist sharing any power over the system.

I say 'fuck them'.

Lived in MI all my life until 2008.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:11:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 6:12:42 AM EST by SteveTheBuilder]
GUESS WHAT?! I voted for Snyder. SURPRISEEEEEEEEEE

Nobody I vote for makes you guys happy!? Seriously tho, or other option was VIRJ. A disaster of a democrat aka not a good democrat like Obama(we'll save that discussion for another day).

I understand why Synder is doing what he is doing and ok with it. If it was anyone else proposing it I would be upset. The downside it the law will remain on the books after he leaves office for other politicians to abuse.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:11:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By jbweld:
Originally Posted By Skunkeye:
The problem is city governments in Detroit and Flint have been so inept and corrupt that there needs to be a mechanism whereby an actual adult with the ability to add and subtract can effectively turn things around. Once the municipalities are solvent, they will be returned to the electorate to bankrupt the cities once again.



Thats pretty much my take on it. Gotta remember,, the folks down in Detroit would still be voting for Kwame if they could.


So, the guys in the capitol now what is best for "the little people"...


Sorry, self determination applies to failures as well as successes. Just because you don't like the outcome, doesn't mean it isn't legitimate.

The people of Detroit (or any city) will get the government they deserve. (spoken as someone who's entire extended family lives in Flint/Davidson)
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:12:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By puskrat:
Originally Posted By Guntoter:
I would have thought arfcom would love this, its all about taking over governments, firing all kinds of government employees, closing down government institutions and in some cases doing away with school districts and towns. Same shit that is advocated on arfcom daily.


It's about centralization, which is decried on arfcom. please read before you blather.


I wonder why we hate centralization...............

Oh yeah, dispersion of duties helps ensure that no one entity becomes so powerful that they cannot be replaced, reigned in, or otherwise become unaccountable.

Lets look at MI, and Detroit especially and see what we might thing will happen if things become MORE corrupt.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:19:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By slabertooch:

Sorry, self determination applies to failures as well as successes. Just because you don't like the outcome, doesn't mean it isn't legitimate.

The people of Detroit (or any city) will get the government they deserve. (spoken as someone who's entire extended family lives in Flint/Davidson)


From the way I read it, this will allow the failure resulting from poor choices to actually take place instead of providing the poorly run municipalities recourse to state funds to evade accountability.

Democrats and their allies are decrying the legislation as a power grab and say it's part of a wider effort taking place in several states, such as Wisconsin, to weaken labor unions.

"It takes every decision in a city or school district and puts it in the hands of the manager, from when the streets get plowed to who plows them and how much they are paid," said Mark Gaffney, president of the Michigan State AFL-CIO. "This is a takeover by the right wing and it's an assault on democracy like I've never seen."

U.S. Rep. John Conyers, a Democrat who represents Detroit, said in a statement that in a given city, the governor's new "financial czar" could "force a municipality into bankruptcy, a power that will surely be used to extract further concessions from hardworking public sector workers."

He said the legislation raises "serious constitutional concerns." On top of that, he said, allowing an "emergency manager" to dissolve locally elected bodies "implicitly targets minority communities that are disproportionately impacted by the economic downturn, without providing meaningful support for improved economic opportunity."


Let's not be naive, Conyers and the unions aren't against this because they're principled advocates of the ideals of Self-Determination and Moral Hazard.

They want the taxpayers of the rest of the state on the hook for their bad choices.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:22:42 AM EST

Originally Posted By paris-dakar:
Originally Posted By slabertooch:

Sorry, self determination applies to failures as well as successes. Just because you don't like the outcome, doesn't mean it isn't legitimate.

The people of Detroit (or any city) will get the government they deserve. (spoken as someone who's entire extended family lives in Flint/Davidson)


From the way I read it, this will allow the failure resulting from poor choices to actually take place instead of providing the poorly run municipalities recourse to state funds to evade accountability.

Democrats and their allies are decrying the legislation as a power grab and say it's part of a wider effort taking place in several states, such as Wisconsin, to weaken labor unions.

"It takes every decision in a city or school district and puts it in the hands of the manager, from when the streets get plowed to who plows them and how much they are paid," said Mark Gaffney, president of the Michigan State AFL-CIO. "This is a takeover by the right wing and it's an assault on democracy like I've never seen."

U.S. Rep. John Conyers, a Democrat who represents Detroit, said in a statement that in a given city, the governor's new "financial czar" could "force a municipality into bankruptcy, a power that will surely be used to extract further concessions from hardworking public sector workers."

He said the legislation raises "serious constitutional concerns." On top of that, he said, allowing an "emergency manager" to dissolve locally elected bodies "implicitly targets minority communities that are disproportionately impacted by the economic downturn, without providing meaningful support for improved economic opportunity."


Let's not be naive, Conyers and the unions aren't against this because they're principled advocates of the ideals of Self-Determination and Moral Hazard.

They want the taxpayers of the rest of the state on the hook for their bad choices.


If the intent is to shut the faucet off, then do that. On the face of things (I haven't read the bill yet, so I'll defer my opinion for now) this seems a bit too much.

Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:25:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By paris-dakar:
Granholm left that state in a completely non-functional mess.

I can't blame the current Governor/State Legislature for wanting some strong tools to cut out the rot.

Most of the large cities (Detroit, Pontiac, Flint, Saginaw, Lansing, etc) in MI are union infested shit-holes.

but in 1902 they gave us the 40 hr work week lol
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:36:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/15/2011 6:36:52 AM EST by paris-dakar]
Originally Posted By slabertooch:
If the intent is to shut the faucet off, then do that. On the face of things (I haven't read the bill yet, so I'll defer my opinion for now) this seems a bit too much.


The problem is, if the state simply shuts the faucet off without intervening, the schools shut down and the Teachers Unions are in the streets blaming the mean old GOP.

But if there's an Ombudsman who comes in with a plan and has a platform to explain the plan to the public, then when the unions lay in the tracks trying to maintain their unsustainable compensation packages, they look like the bad guys.

The one thing the situations in Wisconsin and NJ have taught people is that you have to have a platform to counter the unions and their scare tactics. Just cutting off funds and expecting them to adjust to the new reality on their own is not going to cut it.

Expose the details of their compensation packages and make the unions defend it. Let people know that THEY are shutting down the schools because THEY don't want to make the same adjustments that the private sector has made - and the private sector workers in MI have taken it between the eyes for nearly a decade.

I applaud Governor Snyder. It's time to play hardball with these suckfish.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:41:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By paris-dakar:
Granholm left that state in a completely non-functional mess.

I can't blame the current Governor/State Legislature for wanting some strong tools to cut out the rot.

Most of the large cities (Detroit, Pontiac, Flint, Saginaw, Lansing, etc) in MI are union infested shit-holes.



The unions (UAW at the front of the pack) certainly caused a large share of our problems, but I'm thinking there is a somewhat more specific reason that those cities in particular are shitholes now.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:49:50 AM EST
Need more information, though it sounds like they want to shut down state sharing of funds to cities. That, I do not have a problem with.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 6:52:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Originally Posted By paris-dakar:
Granholm left that state in a completely non-functional mess.

I can't blame the current Governor/State Legislature for wanting some strong tools to cut out the rot.

Most of the large cities (Detroit, Pontiac, Flint, Saginaw, Lansing, etc) in MI are union infested shit-holes.



The unions (UAW at the front of the pack) certainly caused a large share of our problems, but I'm thinking there is a somewhat more specific reason that those cities in particular are shitholes now.


If you read between the lines, that's covered in the section I quoted. [Cough, Conyers, Cough].
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 8:06:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By paris-dakar:
Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Originally Posted By paris-dakar:
Granholm left that state in a completely non-functional mess.

I can't blame the current Governor/State Legislature for wanting some strong tools to cut out the rot.

Most of the large cities (Detroit, Pontiac, Flint, Saginaw, Lansing, etc) in MI are union infested shit-holes.



The unions (UAW at the front of the pack) certainly caused a large share of our problems, but I'm thinking there is a somewhat more specific reason that those cities in particular are shitholes now.


If you read between the lines, that's covered in the section I quoted. [Cough, Conyers, Cough].



Gotcha.

Too bad, given how many fantastic buildings those cities still have.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 10:55:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By slabertooch:

Originally Posted By jbweld:
Originally Posted By Skunkeye:
The problem is city governments in Detroit and Flint have been so inept and corrupt that there needs to be a mechanism whereby an actual adult with the ability to add and subtract can effectively turn things around. Once the municipalities are solvent, they will be returned to the electorate to bankrupt the cities once again.



Thats pretty much my take on it. Gotta remember,, the folks down in Detroit would still be voting for Kwame if they could.


So, the guys in the capitol now what is best for "the little people"...


Sorry, self determination applies to failures as well as successes. Just because you don't like the outcome, doesn't mean it isn't legitimate.


I would agree with you if not one dollar of state money went to bail out the municipalities, but you know the rest of the state is going to be taxed to resolve the mess. The citizens of the rest of the state deserve representation in how their money is being spent.

The people of Detroit (or any city) will get the government they deserve. (spoken as someone who's entire extended family lives in Flint/Davidson)


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