User Panel
Posted: 10/15/2004 6:57:52 AM EDT
Michigan just issued an emergency order. Giving a flu vaccine to anyone not in an approved list of patients is a crime in Michigan!
No statute, no regulation, no court case, just a government order and all of the sudden giving medicine to a non-approved citizen group is a crime. Order posted here in PDF: www.michigan.gov/documents/Public_Health_Order_-_Flu_Vaccine_-_101404_106162_7.pdf |
|
|
|
|
Easy - Public Endangerment |
|
|
If you were on a jury - how would you vote? How do you think most people would vote? I think the prosecutor would fail miserably if a case involving this was tried. |
||
|
If you get dragged into court, you've already lost, regardless of the outcome.
|
|
In other news, people around the nation are being told to be on the lookout for PRICE GOUGING!
Here we have a shortage of something, and many many people are taking this vaccine who don't really need it. Perhaps the solution to this problem is to ALLOW THE MARKET TO DECIDE THE PRICE! I would think that if the price went up to $100 or more, all those "convenience immunizers" would have to think real long and hard about getting their flu injection, "to avoid the sniffows". |
|
I completely do not understand that. |
|
|
You spend lot's of $$, you get your name dragged through the papers as a bad person, you spend time in court, you have the stress and worry, you may have been arrested and jailed......... what's not to understand? Never invite the MAN into your life. Win, lose or draw, it ain't going to be fun |
||
|
A philosophical view. I was discussing logic. Oh, and don't worry, one of these days a patriot will defend your constitutional rights in a court of law. |
|||
|
Probably by force, not by choice. Face it, we have Kangaroo Courts for the most part. |
|
|
I was on Jury Duty for the first time this past Monday. I agree with this 100%. |
|
|
I couldn't agree more. The justice system is screwed. But I refuse to look at everyone entering a courtroom as a defendant as someone who's already lost the battle. |
||
|
Why? Seriously...I'd appreciate your point of view. |
||
|
I'm not up on Michigan law, but I believe that health care providers who receive state certifications such as MD's, RN's are required to operate within guidelines set down by Department of Public Health, including any emergency orders they issue. The criminal charge they would face, if they were to violate the order wouldn't be that they actually gave someone a flu shot, but that they disobeyed a Dept of Health emergency order. Compliance with Dept. of Health rules is very likely a law that's been on the books a while. |
|
|
Well that makes complete sense then. I guess I misunderstood the order. I was under the impression that anyone of us could get hammered for receiving the vaccine. Most likey though, a violation would damage the medical professional's license and not result in a criminal charge. |
||
|
As I stated previously, for those that bothered to read the thread, Public Endangerment would be one possibility |
|
|
This one
|
|
|
Michigan Compiled Laws 333.2261: Except as otherwise provided by this code, a person who violates a rule or order of the department is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 6 months, or a fine of not more than $200.00, or both. |
|
|
Health care providers would face a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a $200 fine if convicted of violating the order by giving a flu shot to people who aren't considered a priority, Olszewski said.
This does affect my wife - she's an RN and does on occasion give vaccines. Are pregnant women high risk? She says yes, but the news article doesn't say this. |
|
The sooner we have the 2nd War of Independence, the better off we'll be.
We;re going to need a LOT of rope for all the judges, legislators, and bureaucrats that have prostituted our Republican Constitutional Democracy into a de-facto dictatorship. |
|
The order itself says pregnant women are in the high risk category. |
|
|
What are you, some sort of Capitalist or something? |
|
|
You bring the cowbell? |
|
|
Problem with that is the people who need it the most are probably not in a position to pay an outrageous price for it. Socialistic as it sounds, it makes sense to me to save the vaccine for high-risk groups. Oh, and the government officials who let this happen should be fired! With so many people not inoculated this year, a genuine epidemic seems very possible. |
|
|
bmj.bmjjournals.com/archive/7070nd4.htm |
|
|
The sad part is: Flu shots are a farce to begin with. The sheeple have been so conditioned to line up and get one every year that many think they won't survive without one, when chances are that most people will do BETTER without one.
-Troy |
|
MD and RN are not "state certifications". They are degrees conferred by medical schools and nursing schools respectively. I will have MD on my tombstone. States only give you a license to practice medicine or nursing. |
|
|
You are missing the point of 'herd immunity'. The majority of people are not vaccinated to protect them but instead to prevent them from passing on the flu to those who are more succeptible--the very young and old. It boils down to $$. You can vaccinate hundreds of people for the price of an ICU admission and hospital stay for a single patient. No one said the sheeple were smart; imagine all the ciprofloxacin expiring on people's shelves since the anthrax scares. I don't see how people will do better without one. |
|
|
Simple. The shot weakens the immune system by injecting the bug directly into the body. If you are in good health, your body will fight it off without too big of an overall effect, but if your health is more marginal (which is quite a common condition), then being weakened further will slow you down significantly, and it will take a while before you recover. The shots are given based on the theory that you'll recover, and have a system full of antibodies, by the time the "real" flu gets to you. That isn't always the case. Many times you will not have recovered, and you'll get the flu due to your weakened condition when you normally wouldn't have. And some will get it directly from the shot in the first place. Yes, there IS a percentage of the population that DOES benefit from the shots, IF they are given at the right time. But as you correctly stated, a "shotgun" approach is used instead, inconveneincing thousands to help a few. -Troy |
|
|
Ummm, your previous answer was quite vague, which prompted me to ask the question. "Public Endangerment" can mean alot of things...or nothing at all. |
||
|
Troy is right.
When I went to college, my first two years I got the flu shot.....those two years I was knocked on my butt by the flu, HARD. Week+ in bed EACH year from the farkin flu. Last three years, no flu shot. only one year I've gotten the flu, came and went in about 4 days of just runny nose and slight aches. Fuck the flu shot -- waste of money |
|
That would be true if they were using the live attenuated virus. The "flu shot" is an inactivated vaccine (containing killed virus) that is given with a needle. You cannot get the flu from the shot. The worse that can happen to someone with a weakened immune system is that they fail to produce an adequate titre of antibodies to protect them from the live virus. They are no worse off than if they hadn't received the vaccine. Ironically they should be vaccinating those people who come into contact with the elderly or chronically ill ie. all the people working in hospitals, nursing homes or anyone working directly with the elderly or chronically ill. Why even bother wasting a vaccination shot on a shut-in grandma with rheumatoid arthritis. Give it to her daughter who brings her meals twice a week. |
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.