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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 5/14/2002 11:48:12 AM EDT
"Having just toured several sections of the border in question, it is clear that there is no chance whatsoever that the army units were simply lost, or unaware that they had crossed the border," Mr. Tancredo wrote in the letter. The Mexican government has in the past said that military and police agents, like many illegal migrants trying to cross the vast border area, have become lost during patrols. The letter in response to Mr. Tancredo from Mexico's ambassador to the United States, Juan Jose Bremer, said that "the excellent level of political dialogue that currently exists between the governments of Mexico and the United States has allowed every case of supposed unnoticed or accidental crossings of Mexican or U.S. personnel into the territory of the other country to fully identify the circumstances." "These are dealt with on a local level," said a Mexican government official, speaking on the condition of anonymity. "Every time we have an authority crossing to the other side, both governments exchange views of what happened." There have been several Mexican military and police incursions in the past two years that have angered Mr. Tancredo. In March, four Mexican soldiers carrying submachine guns and automatic rifles were detained when they ventured into the United States and encountered a Border Patrol agent. In October 2000, 10 similarly armed Mexican soldiers were reported to have fired on a Border Patrol air unit after taking a position on the U.S. side near Copper Canyon in California. In March 2000, Border Patrol agents in El Paso, Texas, said that two Mexican army Humvees, reported by the Mexican government to be on an anti-drug mission, crossed the U.S. border. Two shots were fired from one of the Mexican vehicles, agents reported, but no one was hit. One vehicle retreated into Mexico, but the nine soldiers riding in the second vehicle were detained temporarily before being returned to their country. "These situations can be very difficult," said Keith Weeks, a patrol agent and vice president of Local 1613 of the National Border Patrol Council in California. "We are outgunned in these instances. They have automatic rifles, and we have handguns." He said that military assistance for drug running in Mexico is "a definite possibility." The area Mr. Tancredo examined on his recent visit is filled with encampments where illegal immigrants stay during their journey north. Several towns near the border on the U.S. side have street signs exclusively in Spanish, and border lines are absent in some areas. But travelers in the area are able to see markers designating U.S. territory in many places, especially in Coronado National Forest. For several years, both sides have advocated better marking of the 2,000-mile Southwest border, but with no result. In some areas, trampled fences are all that remain of the former border marking, while some areas in New Mexico and Texas have 6-foot-tall monuments as signposts. But Johnny Williams, who heads field operations for the Immigration and Naturalization Service, said that incursions along the border are inevitable given the tense situation. Some degree of corruption on both sides may be unavoidable. "Vicente Fox has done a good job in rooting out corruption," Mr. Williams said. "I would not discount the fact that with thousands of officers on both sides, there may be someone in uniform doing something wrong."
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 6:15:34 PM EDT
MINE THE GOD DAMN BORDER AND MINE IT NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 6:22:26 PM EDT
mining it would stop a lot of the drug runners and illegals who cross at the spots where there aren't many people around
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 7:14:53 PM EDT
If the Mexicans are using their military on the border (and "accidently" cross over rather frequently)... would someone explain why we can't do so as well?
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 7:24:50 PM EDT
We need to provide better weapons to border agents. What do they carry now? I'm guessing they carry nothing more than handguns and shotguns. We need to issue M16 or M4 to each one of them so they can defend themselves from dope smugglers, illegal aliens, and foreign military troops.
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 7:26:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/19/2002 10:36:11 PM EDT
We can piss & moan & decry these infractions of our borders until we pass out, BUT the fact remains that the hand-wringing liberals won't allow us to do a GD thing about it.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 12:39:07 AM EDT
Sounds like a job for the unorganized militia.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 12:42:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mattja: Sounds like a job for the unorganized militia.
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And a good way to get ahold of some 'unpapered' HK G3s.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 12:48:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Graffiti: We need to provide better weapons to border agents. What do they carry now? I'm guessing they carry nothing more than handguns and shotguns. We need to issue M16 or M4 to each one of them so they can defend themselves from dope smugglers, illegal aliens, and foreign military troops.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the military's job to deal with foreign troops? Just seems to me if an adjacent country finds it acceptable to have their soldiers SO CLOSE to our border, then perhaps we should reciprocate. Where am I going wrong?
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 12:53:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 1:51:21 AM EDT
This is just more "War on Drugs"(translation war on liberty) fallout. LEGALIZE IT!
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 2:50:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2002 2:59:08 AM EDT by mattja]
Originally Posted By Methos: The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 prohibits the US Army to engage in US law enforcement activities, including border patrol. Also, i think the Treaty of Hidalgo Guadalupe prohibits the stationing of troops by both the United States and Mexico along the border within a certain distance.
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I don't think there's anything in the Treaty of Hidalgo Guadalupe preventing troops being stationed on the borders. There are references to US troops being moved at least 90 miles inland from the Mexican ports they were blockading within a certain time period, but that's it. And while Posse Comitatus prohibits US troops from law enforement activities (which, border control is), the states continue to have the right to send their own organized militias to patrol the border. So, the guard is authorized to deal with the Mexican army.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 7:04:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shooter69:
Originally Posted By Graffiti: We need to provide better weapons to border agents. What do they carry now? I'm guessing they carry nothing more than handguns and shotguns. We need to issue M16 or M4 to each one of them so they can defend themselves from dope smugglers, illegal aliens, and foreign military troops.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the military's job to deal with foreign troops? Just seems to me if an adjacent country finds it acceptable to have their soldiers SO CLOSE to our border, then perhaps we should reciprocate. Where am I going wrong?
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Theoretically yes. But what do we do? Post military people on the border just to capture few Mexican military guys on Humvees? Border agents can handle this on their own, given proper firearms.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 7:17:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2002 7:20:07 PM EDT by sniper1az]
Those poor ranchers in southern Arizona. they have to put up with all those foreigners stealing their things, ruining(vandalizing) their personal property and generally making life crappy for them. I understand some of them have installed guard towers on their ranches and patrol their property to keep the little bastards out. Any one got a thread on this? Still think we should mine the border, as I've only got 211 miles between Mexico & me.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 10:34:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Graffiti: Theoretically yes. But what do we do? Post military people on the border just to capture few Mexican military guys on Humvees? Border agents can handle this on their own, given proper firearms.
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"Theoretically yes"... I was waiting for you to provide concrete examples of why this wouldn't work, but it seems that you think it would, although might perhaps be overkill. Well, a little overkill might be worthwhile to end this continuous affront to our sovereignty. I also find it strange that you have a problem with our military being there in response to a foreign military presence, but have nothing say about the Mexicans allowing their military anywhere near the border. Weird. Something of a double standard. At least suggest that the Mexicans should operate as we do and don't leave (albeit better armed) LEOs to deal with combat troops (some of whom it has been suggested may be corrupt and helping drug traffickers).
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 10:57:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Graffiti: We need to provide better weapons to border agents. What do they carry now? I'm guessing they carry nothing more than handguns and shotguns. We need to issue M16 or M4 to each one of them so they can defend themselves from dope smugglers, illegal aliens, and foreign military troops.
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Some interesting things to note about the USBP. Current issue firearms. These are used in the extensive 6 month academy in Charleston SC. All BP agents become proficient with these weapons. 1. Beretta 96D. .40cal DA only pistol (crap, no one likes it and there is some talk of corruption, payoffs and the like which were part and parcel of it's "selection") 2. Border Patrol Model Scattergun Tech. 12ga, Rem 870. Sufficient. 3. M4 fully automatic rifle. The reason Kali BP agents are talking "outgunned" is that in Kali, the BP agents are and have been "politically" disarmed. As in, they have the weapons and training, but the state govt complains and carps about BP having machine guns in a non MG state. (Believe it or not) 4. HK UMP .40. New and liked by most BP agents that take them afield. 5. HK MP5 9mm. Liked by most, not as "trendy" as the UMP. The Aircrews, undercover and off-duty approved firearm is the HK USP Compact .40. Agents must buy their own. All BP agents used to be able to purchase and carry, DAO Sigs. This has been recinded recently.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 10:58:57 PM EDT
The NUMBER ONE, thing that can be done to improve USBP operations is to REMOVE it from the mind-numbing buearacracy of the INS. The BP isn't and has never been a paper-pushing REMF agency like the INS. They are not a "service" they are "the line". The NUMBER TWO, but equally important thing that can be done to improve USBP operations is to REMOVE POLITICS, and "race card players" from even being heard when an incident happens on the border. For instance, most people do not know it, but USBP has NO pursuit policy. That means, if a BP vehicle turns on his lights and you fail to yield, they cannot chase you. Ridiculous...Angry yet? Stand by. A few months ago. Near Nogales, a truckload of Mestizos were fleeing from a USBP ground agent and crashed. Of course, there were 15 more in the back of the pickup. All illegals, and some of them died. Boo F-ing Hoo. Of course, the PC-ers, America haters and anti-Nationalists, not to mention the Mexihole govt hacks were out in force in a heartbeat, decrying the "evil, oppressive BP". There was also the usual "coming to work" and "seeking a better life" pabulum that people in the East just love to parrot. Because they've never seen the trash out in the desert. Or the endless miles of foot trails. So now, as happened on 4/28/02, a truckload of illegals can put literally hundreds of Citizens in Danger and create havoc on the roads. Here's how it happened. About 9pm, a USBP ground agent gets directed to stop a vehicle which a citizen has reported is loaded with illegals. It's a 19ft moving van, ex-Ryder type, Yellow. It's against State Law (AZ) and Federal Law to put passengers in the cargo compartment of this vehicle, first of all, let alone a load of illegals. The BP agent in his Tahoe, "lights them up", they fail to yield, his supervisor orders him to back off, which he does.
Link Posted: 5/20/2002 11:00:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2002 11:04:22 PM EDT by Gadsen]
The truck driver, responds by going faster and shutting his lights off. Since it's a large vehicle, he's soon wandering over the center stripe of the road. An air unit is quickly on the scene as the truck speeds east on Aravaca Rd towards I-19. The air unit is "spotlighting" the vehicle so that it does not cause a traffic accident with oncoming traffic (as this is a two-lane, undivided road) As the truck gets on to I-19 and heads north, pleas go out from the USBP dispatch to AZ DPS (highway patrol) and the Pima Co. Sheriff's Ofc. The air unit is still on scene, following the vehicle and keeping it lit to avoid a deadly crash as the truck is now going 70-75 mph. (probably it's top end) Two Pima Co. cars are now following this truck. USBP dispatch tells the air units and following ground units that Pima Co. refuses to institute a stop....(?!) (Now imagine friends, if YOU were driving w/o lights, in a huge truck at 0110 in ANY GODDAM MUNICIPALITY IN THE COUNTRY! Would "Johnny Law" be all over you? You bet your ass he would!) Pima Co. is not giving BP dispatch any reason why they won't institute a stop. They only agree to "follow from a safe distance". These asswipe Deputys KNOW that BP has no pursuit policy and every mile this truck puts dozens of more honest, decent, minding-their-own-damn-business citizens in jeopardy. AZ DPS won't even return BP's phone call! How's that for insult on injury. After about 15 miles of this blacked out weaving and the Sheriff's office doing nothing, BP's radio dicipline is starting to fray. The dispatcher is upset. The air unit asks if he's just "wasting gas or is someone going to stop this clown". Other units are pleading "What if these morons kill someone?" No one does anything. Finally, the air unit calls that he is breaking off as he doesn't want to stray into Tucson Int'ls patterns and cause them a great deal of grief. The truck never stopped. It never was stopped by any "authority". Hundreds of people were put in danger because of Political Correctness. Our country is under attack. The sooner we tell the PC-holes to SHUT UP. The sooner we can get control over these seives that we call the Border. (The above actually happened, it was not made up) Don't Tread...
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 6:42:11 AM EDT
This $hit pisses me off cause it is the BP I want to join. If I had the power 300yrds back from our side of the border, the entire effing length, there would be a concrete wall with machine gun towers equipped with IF and NV every 100yds, claymores, landmines scattering the 300yds to the mexican border. Guards would have the ability to call in light strike helicopters in nedd arises and ground forces would have AT-4s and LAWS for heavier targets. Tha damn place would be set up like the 38th in Korea! I have NO problem with LEGAL immingration but these illeagals need to be dealt with harshly as does Mexico. BrenLover
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 7:03:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2002 7:05:48 AM EDT by MAC-DADDY]
Can the Ranchers that border mexico SHOOT the ILLEGAL TRESSPASSERS??If so;then I want to hire on!!!SERIOUSLY though;Would it be discrimination to refuse to sell FOOD to illegal immigrants?You would be surprised how fast they would leave if they could not get food...OK;some would say that the mexicans would turn to CRIME to eat......well.....SHOOT THEM!!!!![50]
Link Posted: 5/21/2002 11:41:21 AM EDT
In Arizona it's against State Law to refuse a person a glass of water if they request it. Don't Tread...
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