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Posted: 9/7/2010 11:06:25 AM EDT
Mexican Crime, American Guns
Study of ATF Data Says Three Of Four Guns Used in Mexican Violence Come From US Border States
A shocking new report obtained by ABC News says that as many as three out of four guns used in crimes in Mexico can be traced to gun stores just across the border in the U.S. The numbers bolster complaints by Mexican officials that the country's unprecedented bloodshed – 28,000 people have died in drug-cartel violence since 2006 – is being fueled both by the U.S. appetite for drugs, and by American weapons.
"We can say that there is enormous violence in Mexico and most of the killing is done with guns and most of the guns used in the killing are originally from gun dealers in the United States," said Arkado Gerney, one of the report's authors.
The study, based on Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) data and prepared by the advocacy group Mayors Against Illegal Guns, shows that three out of four guns used in crimes in Mexico and submitted for tracing were sold in the four U.S. states that border Mexico.
According to the report, from 2006 through 2009, 19,000 guns used in crimes in Mexico were traced to an original sale at a US gun dealer, and the bulk of the guns came from Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. Texas supplied four in ten of those weapons, and the other three border states provided an additional one third.
Mexican law places stringent restrictions on gun purchase and ownership, though it does permit ownership of shotguns and pistols.
In April Mexican President Felipe Calderón, speaking to a joint session of Congress, pleaded to US lawmakers for more help in limiting the flow of weapons to Mexico. "I understand that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to guarantee good American citizens the ability to defend themselves and their nation," he said. "But believe me, many of these guns are not going to honest American hands."
New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg, a co-chair of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, noted that Congress had initially blocked the release of the ATF data used to generate the group's new report. The data analyzed in the study was requested in 2009 and not provided till March of this year.
"This is information, previously hidden by Congress, that the public needs to see, to show how guns bought in the US are fueling the drug wars in Mexico," said Bloomberg. "[It] again proves it is too easy for criminals and traffickers to get guns."
The report's authors also analyzed the gun trace data on a per capita basis. The numbers showed that Arizona, Texas and New Mexico had an export rate 169 percent greater than any other states, which the authors suggest may be due in part to less-restrictive gun laws in those states.
"The differences in export rates to Mexico among the four border states may reflect differences in the way those states regulate guns," the report states. In an interview with ABC News, study co-author Gerney pointed out that the effect of lax gun laws on the export rate would mirror a similar pattern within U.S. borders, where weaker gun laws in states like Virginia have been linked to the export of guns used in crimes in states with tougher laws like New York
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:07:47 AM EDT
This again?

I don't know if this is a dupe or another attempt at an already failed effort.

_MaH
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:10:45 AM EDT
The study, based on Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) data and prepared by the advocacy group Mayors Against Illegal Guns, shows that three out of four guns used in crimes in Mexico and submitted for tracing were sold in the four U.S. states that border Mexico.

Very telling
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:14:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shadesofgrey:
The study, based on Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) data and prepared by the advocacy group Mayors Against Illegal Guns, shows that three out of four guns used in crimes in Mexico and submitted for tracing were sold in the four U.S. states that border Mexico.

Very telling


Of course. They only trace the guns that look like they came from the US. You expect them to trace RPGs and RPDs?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:16:02 AM EDT
Gee, I wonder how many Izvesh AK74s or 66 in a triangle Type 56-1s were submitted to ATF for tracing?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:23:43 AM EDT
Can the dupe police please call ABC, the ATF, and the White House? They need a report button.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:26:57 AM EDT
How many were stolen? And yeah, why not trace all those RPGs?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:41:52 AM EDT
Mexicans, just stealing the guns Americans won't steal.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:48:50 AM EDT
Vampires, these Alcaldes Contra Las Armas Ilegales.

Anyone have a silver bullet or stake.?


Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:50:10 AM EDT
Please tell us how many came from Mexican military?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:59:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dragongoddess:
Mexican Crime, American Guns
Study of ATF Data Says Three Of Four Guns Used in Mexican Violence Come From US Border States
A shocking new report obtained by ABC News says that as many as three out of four guns used in crimes in Mexico can be traced to gun stores just across the border in the U.S. The numbers bolster complaints by Mexican officials that the country's unprecedented bloodshed – 28,000 people have died in drug-cartel violence since 2006 – is being fueled both by the U.S. appetite for drugs, and by American weapons.
"We can say that there is enormous violence in Mexico and most of the killing is done with guns and most of the guns used in the killing are originally from gun dealers in the United States," said Arkado Gerney, one of the report's authors.
The study, based on Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) data and prepared by the advocacy group Mayors Against Illegal Guns, shows that three out of four guns used in crimes in Mexico and submitted for tracing were sold in the four U.S. states that border Mexico.
According to the report, from 2006 through 2009, 19,000 guns used in crimes in Mexico were traced to an original sale at a US gun dealer, and the bulk of the guns came from Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. Texas supplied four in ten of those weapons, and the other three border states provided an additional one third.
Mexican law places stringent restrictions on gun purchase and ownership, though it does permit ownership of shotguns and pistols.
In April Mexican President Felipe Calderón, speaking to a joint session of Congress, pleaded to US lawmakers for more help in limiting the flow of weapons to Mexico. "I understand that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to guarantee good American citizens the ability to defend themselves and their nation," he said. "But believe me, many of these guns are not going to honest American hands."
New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg, a co-chair of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, noted that Congress had initially blocked the release of the ATF data used to generate the group's new report. The data analyzed in the study was requested in 2009 and not provided till March of this year.
"This is information, previously hidden by Congress, that the public needs to see, to show how guns bought in the US are fueling the drug wars in Mexico," said Bloomberg. "[It] again proves it is too easy for criminals and traffickers to get guns."
The report's authors also analyzed the gun trace data on a per capita basis. The numbers showed that Arizona, Texas and New Mexico had an export rate 169 percent greater than any other states, which the authors suggest may be due in part to less-restrictive gun laws in those states.
"The differences in export rates to Mexico among the four border states may reflect differences in the way those states regulate guns," the report states. In an interview with ABC News, study co-author Gerney pointed out that the effect of lax gun laws on the export rate would mirror a similar pattern within U.S. borders, where weaker gun laws in states like Virginia have been linked to the export of guns used in crimes in states with tougher laws like New York

BATFE and Mexico are 100% correct. The only way to stop this is to FUCKING CLOSE THE BORDER.

/thread
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:06:53 PM EDT
When did the united states sell rpg's. Pretty sure a lot of the weapons are bought from other people.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:08:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shadesofgrey:
The study, based on Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) data and prepared by the advocacy group Mayors Against Illegal Guns, shows that three out of four guns used in crimes in Mexico and submitted for tracing were sold in the four U.S. states that border Mexico.

Very telling


Fuck them. If they don't like it, why not close the border? Simple solution to a simple problem. If they won't close the border, they obviously don't have a fucking leg to stand on to complain.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:15:00 PM EDT
This has been debunked before. The problem was how many were taken from the Mexican Army? Where is the heavy not for sale in the US stuff coming from? How many were stolen? Thos are off the top of my head. Their numbers are garbage at best.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:24:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dragongoddess:

The study, based on Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) data and prepared by the advocacy group Mayors Against Illegal Guns, shows that three out of four guns used in crimes in Mexico and submitted for tracing were sold in the four U.S. states that border Mexico.

thus non-submitted guns weren't counted.

guns you can't trace include, ones with no serial number and or obliterated serial numbers.

those from other countries like full autos from south America.

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:27:00 PM EDT
1) As others have already stated, the article suggests, falsely, that the cited statistic includes all guns used in Mexican violence, whereas it actually includes only guns submitted for tracing;

2) The author(s) focus blame on inanimate objects (drugs and guns) and on a concept of freedom (U.S. "gun culture", i.e., 2nd Amendment rights) for the crimes and depraved actions of Mexican nationals.


That's not news, it's propoganda with an agenda. It's propogenda!
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:27:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mhoffman:
This again?

I don't know if this is a dupe or another attempt at an already failed effort.

_MaH


both
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:31:21 PM EDT
Ahh the same old convenient bad old american guns excuse. The news media will never give up that old saw, despite all contrary evidence.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:34:42 PM EDT
Just love the honesty coming from these fucking news stations

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:44:51 PM EDT
I wouldnt give a fuck if 100% of the guns used in crimes in the entire country of mexico really did get manufactured by private companies in the US and sold to US citizens and somehow made their way to Mexico. Fuck those guys. Mexico, fix your broke shit. Now I would like a closed border, but that has nothing to do with guns in Mexico.

Can someone point me to the proof of the debunking of the original article?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:53:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Meadowmuffin:
Ahh the same old convenient bad old american guns excuse. The news media will never give up that old saw, despite all contrary evidence.

What about the bad Mexican drugs?

They can make up bullshit about guns, but the facts are that the flow of drugs into America isn't a figment of the imagination.

What happened to the war on drugs? Seal the border and kill three birds with one stone... drugs, guns, and illegals! AMAZING!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:53:53 PM EDT


It's fascinating how Mexico is awash with literally hundreds of thousands of illegal firearms that came from the USA ––––––––––––

according to the unbiased professional US news media and the BATF...




Yet you never actually see any "REAL" busts and prosecutions of these mega-gunrunners...




Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:58:52 PM EDT
Oh sure; didn't you know you could buy M-79s, M203s, RPG-7s and M67 fragmentation grenades on any corner in the US? (queue Ice cream truck pic). Is easier than buying a Coke at the local "Rob & Go".

(Typical Drive-By Media BS)
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:08:57 PM EDT
Stop watching this shit and quite possibly these libtards would lose their advertisers ... eh
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:12:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:18:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Black-Tiger:
Oh sure; didn't you know you could buy M-79s, M203s, RPG-7s and M67 fragmentation grenades on any corner in the US? (queue Ice cream truck pic). Is easier than buying a Coke at the local "Rob & Go".

(Typical Drive-By Media BS)


Speaking of which, anyone have the photoshopped picture of the Styer Aug ice cream truck that was posted here some years ago?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:26:50 PM EDT
I would be happy to send a few guns there gratis if I knew they would be used.

Every year Mexican illegals kill more than three 9-11's worth of Americans and the Mexican government encourages them and protects them where it can.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:29:33 PM EDT
If the guns are the problem, why is the violence in Mexico?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:31:27 PM EDT
So what? I don't give a fuck if they ALL come from here....
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:41:20 PM EDT
Paragraphs are your friend.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:42:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:52:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shadesofgrey:
The study, based on Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) data and prepared by the advocacy group Mayors Against Illegal Guns, shows that three out of four guns used in crimes in Mexico and submitted for tracing were sold in the four U.S. states that border Mexico.

Very telling



"Nuff said.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:56:21 PM EDT
Apparently Mexico needs to secure their NORTHERN border. Let's help them.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:58:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By isa268:

Originally Posted By dragongoddess:

The study, based on Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) data and prepared by the advocacy group Mayors Against Illegal Guns, shows that three out of four guns used in crimes in Mexico and submitted for tracing were sold in the four U.S. states that border Mexico.

thus non-submitted guns weren't counted.

guns you can't trace include, ones with no serial number and or obliterated serial numbers.

those from other countries like full autos from south America.


Which, IIRC, was about 80% of the weapons seized.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 2:10:02 PM EDT
I'm starting to think that if these guns are being used in gang wars, that we should be DONATING as many guns as we can to every gang down there.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 2:14:41 PM EDT

LOGIC FAIL. If it's American guns and an American thirst for drugs fueling this - why haven't we had 28,000 deaths on this side of the border, amigo?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 2:18:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Brownie63:

LOGIC FAIL. If it's American guns and an American thirst for drugs fueling this - why haven't we had 28,000 deaths on this side of the border, amigo?

Soon amigo, soon.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 2:21:23 PM EDT
Yeah, be patient.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 2:55:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 2:56:49 PM EDT by myitinaw]



Fuck ABC & fuck Mexico


If we were a free people that had a self-regulating society,
we could end this, and quick...






Link Posted: 9/7/2010 5:41:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 5:41:59 PM EDT by tx318]
THEY SHOT MEXICO'S BUZZURD
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:41:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mhoffman:
This again?

I don't know if this is a dupe or another attempt at an already failed effort.

_MaH





All I know is it showed up in my local paper. While it may be a dupe ABC is apparently treating it as a new development.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:04:46 PM EDT
Apparently the "All Barak Channel" is treating this as a new development:

Mexican Crime, American Guns

It's the same old anti-gun B.S. from ABC, Bloomberg, and MAIG. ABC just had to run a "new" story so that they could pretend to be relevant to those pushing their anti-gun agenda as a guise to "help" the Mexicans.

James
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:06:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Partisan:
Please tell us how many came from Mexican military?


Or still in use by Mexican military working for the drug lords.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:08:34 PM EDT
Man, they just keep repeating the same lie even after you show it to be total B.S. crap used as propaganda.

Amazing.

It's like they know they're busted and they just keep lying. They don't even pretend anymore to be truthful.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:53:14 PM EDT
Well, I want to see an ABC report call;

American crime, Mexicans



We will see who does more damage to whom.



John
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:57:44 PM EDT
They should put up a wall to keep our darn guns out of their peace loving country
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:59:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SilentType:
Man, they just keep repeating the same lie even after you show it to be total B.S. crap used as propaganda.

Amazing.

It's like they know they're busted and they just keep lying. They don't even pretend anymore to be truthful.


You should see the Mexicans on MP.net. They believe it whole heartily even as they post pictures of grenades and RPGs seized by the Policia from drug cartels...Hurp durp?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:03:10 AM EDT
I have a novel solution for this, if it is in fact an issue. Even if it's not.



SECURE THE FUCKING BORDER.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:03:55 AM EDT
So we pay them billions for agricultural products that we want desperately but have declared illegal.

Then they need guns to fight over who gets to break our laws and bring us our illegal agricultural products.

So we sell them guns, with which they kill each other, their government, and our policemen.

Then we blame the whole problem on the easy availability of guns in our culture and use that as an excuse to give more power to the people who made the original ag products illegal?



Boy are we dumb.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:04:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dragongoddess:
Originally Posted By mhoffman:
This again?

I don't know if this is a dupe or another attempt at an already failed effort.

_MaH


All I know is it showed up in my local paper. While it may be a dupe ABC is apparently treating it as a new development.

write your newspaper and point out this is news from last year.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/02/myth-percent-small-fraction-guns-mexico-come/

Then tell them if they don't correct their mistake ou will print tne thousand fliers of the truth and spend your sunday mornings following around the news paper guy and putting a flyer pointing out your lies on every door that recieves the paper.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:06:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
I have a novel solution for this, if it is in fact an issue. Even if it's not.



SECURE THE FUCKING BORDERMake agricultural products legal and cheap, defund the cartels, and remove the risk premium and profits from drug trafficking, thus pulling the teeth from the cartels and depriving them of their primary source of money and power..


Fixed it for ya.

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