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Posted: 1/31/2011 7:59:33 PM EDT
Seeing what is happening in Egypt got me thinking

Since the peace deal with Israel, theyve bought alot of our tech.

And if things go south, How would the two match up?
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:00:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 8:07:59 PM EDT by Mountain_Snipe]
abrams easily

ETA: oops, egyptian abrams? merkava
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:02:17 PM EDT
First, we don't sell those dudes the same Abrams that we use. They are much more limited tech wise. Others will be along shortly to explain the details I'm sure.

Second, nothing can replace a well trained professional crew. If the Egyptian military is anything like the othe Arab militaries I've worked with, the Israelis don't have much to worry about.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:02:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mountain_Snipe:
abrams easily


Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:03:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 8:04:49 PM EDT by ArmyInfantryVet]
Not all Abrams are created equal. We gave them and Saudis a downgraded version of our M1 Abrams.

I would put my bet on the Israelis who have better crews and would have a technological edge in their tanks over the Abrams. Egypt is mostly a conscipt Army.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:04:22 PM EDT
Allah will guide those shells right on target and if not? well Insha'Allah
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:06:16 PM EDT
Insha' allah doesn't count as muchas Israeli training

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:06:38 PM EDT
Egyptian Abrams has no depleted Uranium Armor. They are still styled on Warsaw pact doctrine. Once those Abrams move out of their SAM battery protection, they are going to be toast. The Isreali isn't going to make the same mistake as in 73 where they basically defended the eastern bank of the Suez to the death and wasted their airpower. The Isreali is going to fight a defensive battle this time.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:09:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By getchevyn:
Egyptian Abrams has no depleted Uranium Armor. They are still styled on Warsaw pact doctrine. Once those Abrams move out of their SAM battery protection, they are going to be toast. The Isreali isn't going to make the same mistake as in 73 where they basically defended the eastern bank of the Suez to the death and wasted their airpower. The Isreali is going to fight a defensive battle this time.



From what I am told, they moved away from the Soviet doctrine and adopted Western military doctrine.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:13:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Originally Posted By getchevyn:
Egyptian Abrams has no depleted Uranium Armor. They are still styled on Warsaw pact doctrine. Once those Abrams move out of their SAM battery protection, they are going to be toast. The Isreali isn't going to make the same mistake as in 73 where they basically defended the eastern bank of the Suez to the death and wasted their airpower. The Isreali is going to fight a defensive battle this time.



From what I am told, they moved away from the Soviet doctrine and adopted Western military doctrine.
Frankly, I find it improbable that a very non-western culture could successfully implement western doctrine.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:15:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RedDogSoldier:

Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Originally Posted By getchevyn:
Egyptian Abrams has no depleted Uranium Armor. They are still styled on Warsaw pact doctrine. Once those Abrams move out of their SAM battery protection, they are going to be toast. The Isreali isn't going to make the same mistake as in 73 where they basically defended the eastern bank of the Suez to the death and wasted their airpower. The Isreali is going to fight a defensive battle this time.



From what I am told, they moved away from the Soviet doctrine and adopted Western military doctrine.
Frankly, I find it improbable that a very non-western culture could successfully implement western doctrine.



Seriously.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:16:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 8:18:16 PM EDT by ArmyInfantryVet]

Originally Posted By RedDogSoldier:

Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Originally Posted By getchevyn:
Egyptian Abrams has no depleted Uranium Armor. They are still styled on Warsaw pact doctrine. Once those Abrams move out of their SAM battery protection, they are going to be toast. The Isreali isn't going to make the same mistake as in 73 where they basically defended the eastern bank of the Suez to the death and wasted their airpower. The Isreali is going to fight a defensive battle this time.



From what I am told, they moved away from the Soviet doctrine and adopted Western military doctrine.
Frankly, I find it improbable that a very non-western culture could successfully implement western doctrine.


It was former 3-star General Honore, in an interview that said they ditched the old Soviet warfighting doctrine and went with the Western warfighting doctrine as of late. He also commented that the Generals in charge of Egypt were pretty good, by Middle East standards. Apparently, he's went over to Egypt while in the US Army and worked with them alittle bit.

Seriously, Western style of warfare isn't some magic voodoo that only a 1st rate military can succeed at. Besides that, Soviets had some good tactics as well.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:18:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RedDogSoldier:

Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Originally Posted By getchevyn:
Egyptian Abrams has no depleted Uranium Armor. They are still styled on Warsaw pact doctrine. Once those Abrams move out of their SAM battery protection, they are going to be toast. The Isreali isn't going to make the same mistake as in 73 where they basically defended the eastern bank of the Suez to the death and wasted their airpower. The Isreali is going to fight a defensive battle this time.



From what I am told, they moved away from the Soviet doctrine and adopted Western military doctrine.
Frankly, I find it improbable that a very non-western culture could successfully implement western doctrine.



From wikipedia:

Today conscripts without a college degree serve three years as enlisted soldiers. Conscripts with a General Secondary School Degree serve two years as enlisted soldiers. Conscripts with a college degree serve one year as enlisted or three years as a reserve officer.

I have never seen a military adopt Western military doctrine with conscripts. Escpecially where conscripts serve longer then educated men. With that large number of conscripts there will be a need for centralized command or the whole system will collapse.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:19:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Originally Posted By RedDogSoldier:

Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Originally Posted By getchevyn:
Egyptian Abrams has no depleted Uranium Armor. They are still styled on Warsaw pact doctrine. Once those Abrams move out of their SAM battery protection, they are going to be toast. The Isreali isn't going to make the same mistake as in 73 where they basically defended the eastern bank of the Suez to the death and wasted their airpower. The Isreali is going to fight a defensive battle this time.



From what I am told, they moved away from the Soviet doctrine and adopted Western military doctrine.
Frankly, I find it improbable that a very non-western culture could successfully implement western doctrine.


It was former 3-star General Honore, in an interview that said they ditched the old Soviet warfighting doctrine and went with the Western warfighting doctrine as of late. He also commented that the Generals in charge of Egypt were pretty good, by Middle East standards. Apparently, he's went over to Egypt while in the US Army and worked with them alittle bit.
As you well know, the most important part of the "western doctrine" is the ability of the individual Soldier, junior NCOs, and junior Os to make decisions and act independently.

I'm just not seeing it dude.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:19:54 PM EDT
Arab militaries/cultures do not believe in the NCO Corps as we know it that is why there will never be a professional fighting force from those countries.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:22:10 PM EDT
Why would Israel and Egypt even be at war?
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:22:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 03Vet:
Arab militaries/cultures do not believe in the NCO Corps as we know it that is why there will never be a professional fighting force from those countries.

Good point.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:22:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
Why would Israel and Egypt even be at war?


Well it has been awhile since the last time...

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:28:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CRC:
Why would Israel and Egypt even be at war?

People are worried that Egypt might get taken over by the muslim brotherhood and thus get into a war with Israel.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:30:10 PM EDT


The Egyptian army's problem is the same that you see in most dictatorships.....the leadership.

In Westernized countries, you get promoted by being tactically proficient.

In dictatorships, you get promoted based on your perceived loyalty to the dictator.

So, when a western army goes up against the bad guys, we send a General Petraeus and their top general is someone's brother-in-law.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:31:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Seriously, Western style of warfare isn't some magic voodoo that only a 1st rate military can succeed at. Besides that, Soviets had some good tactics as well.

It does, however, require that you give your junior officers the authority to take a piss without permission. IMHO that's going to be the big barrier for Arab culture in adopting western traditions.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:32:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Why would Israel and Egypt even be at war?

People are worried that Egypt might get taken over by the muslim brotherhood and thus get into a war with Israel.


That would make sense, maybe
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:35:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 03Vet:
Arab militaries/cultures do not believe in the NCO Corps as we know it that is why there will never be a professional fighting force from those countries.



I was in Cairo almost 20 years ago and visited Anwar Sadats tomb and their unknown soldier memorial.

This site had two Egyptian army ceremonial guards who had the stripes on their sleeves held on by safety pins. After we photographed them, they held out their hands and asked for "baksheesh"....a tip.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:36:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Originally Posted By CRC:
Why would Israel and Egypt even be at war?

People are worried that Egypt might get taken over by the muslim brotherhood and thus get into a war with Israel.
Could. Personally, for me I doubt all of those demonstrations & rioting was spontaneous. There has to be some kind of leadership somewhere someplace.

Good lesson for all, be sure to have good stock of food on hand, things are going to get interesting in Egypt.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:37:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 8:44:17 PM EDT by getchevyn]
Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Originally Posted By RedDogSoldier:

Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Originally Posted By getchevyn:
Egyptian Abrams has no depleted Uranium Armor. They are still styled on Warsaw pact doctrine. Once those Abrams move out of their SAM battery protection, they are going to be toast. The Isreali isn't going to make the same mistake as in 73 where they basically defended the eastern bank of the Suez to the death and wasted their airpower. The Isreali is going to fight a defensive battle this time.



From what I am told, they moved away from the Soviet doctrine and adopted Western military doctrine.
Frankly, I find it improbable that a very non-western culture could successfully implement western doctrine.


It was former 3-star General Honore, in an interview that said they ditched the old Soviet warfighting doctrine and went with the Western warfighting doctrine as of late. He also commented that the Generals in charge of Egypt were pretty good, by Middle East standards. Apparently, he's went over to Egypt while in the US Army and worked with them alittle bit.

Seriously, Western style of warfare isn't some magic voodoo that only a 1st rate military can succeed at. Besides that, Soviets had some good tactics as well.


True. All military doctrine are really good on paper. But practicing it is another matter.

Can't argue what General Honore seen in their military but isn't he the guy who is famous for the Katrina effort?

Anyway, back to doctrine. During the Battle of 93 Easting. Captain H.R. McMaster, surpise the Iraqi Republican Guard Brigade Assembly Area and destroy the bulk of their tanks with mininal loss of only one M3 Bradley because he took the initative. The Iraqi was deploy on a reverse slope just like the Soviet taught them. The Americans just punch through and didn't stop. Speeding down the other side they engaged the Iraqis. I believed they have like 10 Abrams and destroyed I think it was like between 50 or 70 T-72 along with many BMPs.

A conscript can't make that decision. They have to wait for orders from central command.

Edit- Captain McMaster is now a Brigadier General. He's got more combat experience than General Honore.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:38:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CRC:
Why would Israel and Egypt even be at war?



We give Egypt billions of dollars in foreign aid...it keeps their economy afloat. In return, they don't attack Israel. As long as the next guy in charge likes to collect billions of US dollars, we'll do just fine.

If it's someone who is hostile to the US, well....then Israel now has a second front to take care of...

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:42:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By getchevyn:
Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Originally Posted By RedDogSoldier:

Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Originally Posted By getchevyn:
Egyptian Abrams has no depleted Uranium Armor. They are still styled on Warsaw pact doctrine. Once those Abrams move out of their SAM battery protection, they are going to be toast. The Isreali isn't going to make the same mistake as in 73 where they basically defended the eastern bank of the Suez to the death and wasted their airpower. The Isreali is going to fight a defensive battle this time.



From what I am told, they moved away from the Soviet doctrine and adopted Western military doctrine.
Frankly, I find it improbable that a very non-western culture could successfully implement western doctrine.


It was former 3-star General Honore, in an interview that said they ditched the old Soviet warfighting doctrine and went with the Western warfighting doctrine as of late. He also commented that the Generals in charge of Egypt were pretty good, by Middle East standards. Apparently, he's went over to Egypt while in the US Army and worked with them alittle bit.

Seriously, Western style of warfare isn't some magic voodoo that only a 1st rate military can succeed at. Besides that, Soviets had some good tactics as well.


True. All military doctrine are really good on paper. But practicing it is another matter.

Can't argue what General Honore seen in their military but isn't he the guy who is famous for the Katrina effort?

Anyway, back to doctrine. During the Battle of 93 Easting. Captain H.R. McMaster, surpise the Iraqi Republican Guard Brigade Assembly Area and destroy the bulk of their tanks with mininal loss of only one M3 Bradley because he took the initative. The Iraqi was deploy on a reverse slope just like the Soviet taught them. The Americans just punch through and didn't stop. Speeding down the other side they engaged the Iraqis. I believed they have like 10 Abrams and destroyed I think it was like between 50 or 70 T-72 along with many BMPs.

A conscript can't make that decision. They have to wait for orders from central command.

Yeah. We've established that fact. The big advantage we have is our field commanders are allowed to take the initiative when a moment presents itself. Where as military ran by dictatorships, they are not allowed to do that and will be punished for doing so.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:42:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By getchevyn:
Originally Posted By RedDogSoldier:

Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Originally Posted By getchevyn:
Egyptian Abrams has no depleted Uranium Armor. They are still styled on Warsaw pact doctrine. Once those Abrams move out of their SAM battery protection, they are going to be toast. The Isreali isn't going to make the same mistake as in 73 where they basically defended the eastern bank of the Suez to the death and wasted their airpower. The Isreali is going to fight a defensive battle this time.



From what I am told, they moved away from the Soviet doctrine and adopted Western military doctrine.
Frankly, I find it improbable that a very non-western culture could successfully implement western doctrine.



From wikipedia:

Today conscripts without a college degree serve three years as enlisted soldiers. Conscripts with a General Secondary School Degree serve two years as enlisted soldiers. Conscripts with a college degree serve one year as enlisted or three years as a reserve officer.

I have never seen a military adopt Western military doctrine with conscripts. Escpecially where conscripts serve longer then educated men. With that large number of conscripts there will be a need for centralized command or the whole system will collapse.


Germany, both WWII and Cold War had conscription. Isreal has conscription. It is not how you get people to serve (volunteer or conscription) is the quality of human capital you bring in.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:43:33 PM EDT
It's an export model of the Abrams using an export armor package and export electronic systems

Given it's the export model, Merkava should win.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:47:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mountain_Snipe:
abrams easily

ETA: oops, egyptian abrams? merkava

Maybe an even match.

Israel didn't look too hot when they went up against hezbollah recently. They weren't the Israel of the 6 day war, that's for sure.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 8:58:49 PM EDT
Why wouldn't you just send up the Cobras/Apaches first and then use the Merkavas to mop up?
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:04:59 PM EDT
If the Merkavas are loaded with LAHATs and the Abrams are using standing tank rounds, the Merkavas have a 2km kill range advantage.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:12:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sterling18:

Originally Posted By Mountain_Snipe:
abrams easily

ETA: oops, egyptian abrams? merkava

Maybe an even match.

Israel didn't look too hot when they went up against hezbollah recently. They weren't the Israel of the 6 day war, that's for sure.

I definetly wouldn't say Israel is a for sure win.

That being said though, Israel's tank crews are definitely better trained
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:16:59 PM EDT
Operation Bright Star

Operation Bright Star was a series of biennial combined and joint training exercises led by American and Egyptian forces in Egypt. These exercises began in 1981. They are designed to strengthen ties between the Egyptian and American militaries and demonstrate and enhance the ability of the Americans to reinforce their allies in the Middle East in the event of war. These deployments usually are centered at the large Cairo West Air Base. During the period following the liberation of Kuwait (Operation Desert Storm), these exercises have grown larger and have included as many as 11 countries and 70,000 personnel. Other allied nations joining Bright Star exercises in Egypt have included the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, Greece, the Netherlands, Jordan, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:24:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Originally Posted By sterling18:

Originally Posted By Mountain_Snipe:
abrams easily

ETA: oops, egyptian abrams? merkava

Maybe an even match.

Israel didn't look too hot when they went up against hezbollah recently. They weren't the Israel of the 6 day war, that's for sure.

I definetly wouldn't say Israel is a for sure win.

That being said though, Israel's tank crews are definitely better trained
I don't disagree with Israel having better training, but it seems their leadership is not up to the task like in the past.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:26:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sterling18:

Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Originally Posted By sterling18:

Originally Posted By Mountain_Snipe:
abrams easily

ETA: oops, egyptian abrams? merkava

Maybe an even match.

Israel didn't look too hot when they went up against hezbollah recently. They weren't the Israel of the 6 day war, that's for sure.

I definetly wouldn't say Israel is a for sure win.

That being said though, Israel's tank crews are definitely better trained
I don't disagree with Israel having better training, but it seems their leadership is not up to the task like in the past.


I wouldn't know, but I do know that the Israeli government was pissed off with the military with not having been training for such an event and producing poor results on the battlefield. Some Generals got shitcanned because of it.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:28:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Mountain_Snipe:
abrams easily

ETA: oops, egyptian abrams? merkava


First post wins.

Hopefully we have "kill switches" for all that stuff we equipped Egypt with.

Starving them of parts takes a long time to be effective (ala Iran).

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:28:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KillerTux:
Allah will guide those shells right on target and if not? well Insha'Allah


Shells, what makes you think we sold them shells to go with those...

Hell the IDF was smoking the Egyptians with shermans vs t-55's and t-62's in 1973... Granted those Shermans had a few mods the WW2 versions never did.

Traning and your back to the ocean has a quality all it's own. That and Israeli Nukes.....

The newer Merkava's use a lot of the same armor technology as the M1A2's as well as the same main guns.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:29:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:

Originally Posted By getchevyn:
Egyptian Abrams has no depleted Uranium Armor. They are still styled on Warsaw pact doctrine. Once those Abrams move out of their SAM battery protection, they are going to be toast. The Isreali isn't going to make the same mistake as in 73 where they basically defended the eastern bank of the Suez to the death and wasted their airpower. The Isreali is going to fight a defensive battle this time.



From what I am told, they moved away from the Soviet doctrine and adopted Western military doctrine.

Including C and D model F-16s as the bulk of their AF.

Plus, the thought that 'Israel is going to fight a defensive battle' implies that Egypt would be the one attacking...

Which is ABSURDLY unlikely.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:31:23 PM EDT
I've heard being a PVT in the Egyptian military is much like it being Thursday..everyday..for your entire enlistment.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:31:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:
Egypt is mostly a conscipt Army.

So is the IDF.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:37:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Plus, the thought that 'Israel is going to fight a defensive battle' implies that Egypt would be the one attacking...

Which is ABSURDLY unlikely.




If Israel and Egypt fight, the odds are roughly 100% that Egypt would be the attacker.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 9:41:06 PM EDT
Depends on against which abrams.

Ours? Merkava gets owned series 1/2...3 would be a fight.

Against export models? 1/2/3 series Merkavas will likely win.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:09:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 10:10:47 PM EDT by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By Ohio:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Plus, the thought that 'Israel is going to fight a defensive battle' implies that Egypt would be the one attacking...

Which is ABSURDLY unlikely.




If Israel and Egypt fight, the odds are roughly 100% that Egypt would be the attacker.

Not at all.

The LAST thing that a new regime - MB or otherwise - is going to want to do, is take on a neer-peer adversary in open 3rd-gen warfare... Which is what Izzy vs (whoever) ends up being.

The ONLY way you'd see another war, is if Israel decides that they do not 'agree' with the new Egyptian regime, and decides to go pre-emptive. Which is their right as a sovreign nation, and gives them a claim at a 'defensive' operation politically.

But militarily, an offensive defense, is still offense.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:12:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Strykewolf:
Depends on against which abrams.

Ours? Merkava gets owned series 1/2...3 would be a fight.

Against export models? 1/2/3 series Merkavas will likely win.

Somehow I think that an Abrams A2 SEP would still easily beat a Merk 4.

However, Egypt doesn't have A2 SEP. They have A1-basic....

And they don't have DU APFSDS, just tungsten.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:13:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Ohio:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Plus, the thought that 'Israel is going to fight a defensive battle' implies that Egypt would be the one attacking...

Which is ABSURDLY unlikely.




If Israel and Egypt fight, the odds are roughly 100% that Egypt would be the attacker.

Not at all.

The LAST thing that a new regime - MB or otherwise - is going to want to do, is take on a neer-peer adversary in open 3rd-gen warfare... Which is what Izzy vs (whoever) ends up being.

The ONLY way you'd see another war, is if Israel decides that they do not 'agree' with the new Egyptian regime, and decides to go pre-emptive. Which is their right as a sovreign nation, and gives them a claim at a 'defensive' operation politically.

But militarily, an offensive defense, is still offense.


I think it is highly unlikely Israel will attack Egypt. I think Egypt would have to attack first. I mean, they have a REAL legitimate, good reason to target Iran nuclear sites, but after the numerous years they've known about it, they haven't attacked.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:13:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fadedsun:
I've heard being a PVT in the Egyptian military is much like it being Thursday..everyday..for your entire enlistment.


I can only imagine that after Thursday night, the Egyptian tanks need a good hosing down.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:20:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 10:26:08 PM EDT by Ohio]
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Ohio:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Plus, the thought that 'Israel is going to fight a defensive battle' implies that Egypt would be the one attacking...

Which is ABSURDLY unlikely.




If Israel and Egypt fight, the odds are roughly 100% that Egypt would be the attacker.

Not at all.

The LAST thing that a new regime - MB or otherwise - is going to want to do, is take on a neer-peer adversary in open 3rd-gen warfare... Which is what Izzy vs (whoever) ends up being.

The ONLY way you'd see another war, is if Israel decides that they do not 'agree' with the new Egyptian regime, and decides to go pre-emptive. Which is their right as a sovreign nation, and gives them a claim at a 'defensive' operation politically.

But militarily, an offensive defense, is still offense.




I have resisted saying this for a long time, but I do believe you may be insane.
There is no fucking way that Israel would invade Egypt to effect regime change. None.

ETA:

Egypt has 10x the population, and Israel would have to cross the Sinai and Suez to attack. Pure suicide, and they are smart enough to know it.
The attacking Israeli Merkavas would never live long enough to see an Egyptian tank.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:28:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 03Vet:
Why wouldn't you just send up the Cobras/Apaches first and then use the Merkavas to mop up?



Because Egypt has a few hundred decent fighters and a whole bunch of ADA,not to mention a couple dozen Apaches of their own.



Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:33:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Texaspyro21:
Insha' allah doesn't count as muchas Israeli training

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


The Israeli military is not what it used to be. Remember they got there asses handed to the by Hezbollah in the recent past.

Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:39:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 10:39:57 PM EDT by SIPCAT-C]
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Ohio:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Plus, the thought that 'Israel is going to fight a defensive battle' implies that Egypt would be the one attacking...

Which is ABSURDLY unlikely.




If Israel and Egypt fight, the odds are roughly 100% that Egypt would be the attacker.

Not at all.

The LAST thing that a new regime - MB or otherwise - is going to want to do, is take on a neer-peer adversary in open 3rd-gen warfare... Which is what Izzy vs (whoever) ends up being.

The ONLY way you'd see another war, is if Israel decides that they do not 'agree' with the new Egyptian regime, and decides to go pre-emptive. Which is their right as a sovreign nation, and gives them a claim at a 'defensive' operation politically.

But militarily, an offensive defense, is still offense.



I agree with your logic. Other than your Third Reich-style belief that preemptive warfare is the "right" of a "sovereign nation."
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