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Posted: 1/26/2014 1:44:21 PM EDT
The universal background check keeps coming up as a way to keep guns out of criminals and the mentally disturbed....that seems to be the answer but how would it work? The liberal mind set seems to be well we need to do what we can to keep guns away from those types . I get that part of the argument and I agree but their argument and solutions seem like one never ending circle jerk .



The question is. "Is there really a fix on the mental illness side in relation to gun crime?"
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 1:47:48 PM EDT
Fix number one is to get Family MD's to quit handing out SSRI's like candy and only let psychiatrists prescribe them.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 1:49:19 PM EDT
Obvious answer is obvious...

More laws.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 1:53:39 PM EDT
Not really, maybe look at trying to solve why all these kids are messed up these days.... Probably has something to do with the decline of family values and increasing rate of divorce in this country, but hey what do i know. Fucked up people are always going to do fucked up shit, that's just the way it is. Best thing we can do as a society to protect the good from the bad people would be to lock up the bad people and not let them out, or just execute them and call it a day. That and maybe if everyone took personal responsibility for their safety and not just rely on the police to protect them.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 1:53:41 PM EDT
There is a certain price you have to pay for living in a free society.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 1:53:51 PM EDT
Yes its a ploy to drive all gun owners CRAZY ----- then sorry but your mentally ill so you cant have a gun. problem solved.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 1:54:30 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By captainpooby:


There is a certain price you have to pay for living in a free society.
View Quote




 
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 1:54:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GunDisaster:
Not really, maybe look at trying to solve why all these kids are messed up these days.... Probably has something to do with the decline of family values and increasing rate of divorce in this country, but hey what do i know. Fucked up people are always going to do fucked up shit, that's just the way it is. Best thing we can do as a society to protect the good from the bad people would be to lock up the bad people and not let them out, or just execute them and call it a day. That and maybe if everyone took personal responsibility for their safety and not just rely on the police to protect them.
View Quote


Or everyone is a special snowflake treatment that they receive from day 0 to death.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 1:56:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TacticalMOLONLABE:

 
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Originally Posted By TacticalMOLONLABE:
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
There is a certain price you have to pay for living in a free society.

 




Your new avatar rules.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:08:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By tango1978:
Fix number one is to get Family MD's to quit handing out SSRI's like candy and only let psychiatrists prescribe them.
View Quote


Please defend your answer.  Not with the usual  nonsense thrown around here. Use actual data that shows a correlation between SSRI use and  increased violence.  There are tens of millions of citizens using these medications and yet mentally ill shooters are are few in numbers.
Can you explain this please.

ERic
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:09:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By captainpooby:
There is a certain price you have to pay for living in a free society.
View Quote


What the libtards are proposing is total .gov control from womb to tomb. It's an illusion or more correctly a delusion, since total control is impossible you will always have acts perpetrated by those that will absolutely will not care what the results of their actions are. The obvious ones might be more easily discovered but some will slip thru the cracks and go on to commit heinous acts.

Liberty for all will be the sacrificial lamb on the altar for such nonsense. Ask yourself this....would banning all alcohol stop DUI ?? History has already provided that answer, same for the WOD. People will do what they want, part of that free will thing and all. It's tragic for those it happens to just like the death of anyone, but you can't hold the rest of the country hostage to someone's personal tragedy, not realistically anyway.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:17:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By deadbolt308:


Please defend your answer.  Not with the usual  nonsense thrown around here. Use actual data that shows a correlation between SSRI use and  increased violence.  There are tens of millions of citizens using these medications and yet mentally ill shooters are are few in numbers.
Can you explain this please.

ERic
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Originally Posted By deadbolt308:
Originally Posted By tango1978:
Fix number one is to get Family MD's to quit handing out SSRI's like candy and only let psychiatrists prescribe them.


Please defend your answer.  Not with the usual  nonsense thrown around here. Use actual data that shows a correlation between SSRI use and  increased violence.  There are tens of millions of citizens using these medications and yet mentally ill shooters are are few in numbers.
Can you explain this please.

ERic


He can't.  It would take actual research, instead of the easy road where you can just parrot some talking points.   My brother in law takes an SSRI and they help him.  He's a great guy, and I'd trust him to have my 6 before everyone in my life other than my wife and kids.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:20:12 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By deadbolt308:


Please defend your answer.  Not with the usual  nonsense thrown around here. Use actual data that shows a correlation between SSRI use and  increased violence.  There are tens of millions of citizens using these medications and yet mentally ill shooters are are few in numbers.
Can you explain this please.

ERic
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Originally Posted By deadbolt308:
Originally Posted By tango1978:
Fix number one is to get Family MD's to quit handing out SSRI's like candy and only let psychiatrists prescribe them.


Please defend your answer.  Not with the usual  nonsense thrown around here. Use actual data that shows a correlation between SSRI use and  increased violence.  There are tens of millions of citizens using these medications and yet mentally ill shooters are are few in numbers.
Can you explain this please.

ERic

One of my degrees is in psychology with a  focus in pharmacology, SSRI's do in fact have a  have a strong correlation to violence and if you would like to research it a simple Google search of (ssri and violence) will get you some research and stats on it. SSRI's are the most commonly overly prescribed drugs in the US, even more so that pain medication at the moment. Psychotropic drugs are shown to be over 50% more effective when psychotherapy is included in the treatment however that don't happen when MD's are giving these out like candy.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:20:59 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By TacticalMOLONLABE:





 
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Originally Posted By TacticalMOLONLABE:



Originally Posted By captainpooby:

There is a certain price you have to pay for living in a free society.


 
I'm gonna go with this.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:24:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 2:25:27 PM EDT by tango1978]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ogive:


He can't.  It would take actual research, instead of the easy road where you can just parrot some talking points.   My brother in law takes an SSRI and they help him.  He's a great guy, and I'd trust him to have my 6 before everyone in my life other than my wife and kids.
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Originally Posted By Ogive:
Originally Posted By deadbolt308:
Originally Posted By tango1978:
Fix number one is to get Family MD's to quit handing out SSRI's like candy and only let psychiatrists prescribe them.


Please defend your answer.  Not with the usual  nonsense thrown around here. Use actual data that shows a correlation between SSRI use and  increased violence.  There are tens of millions of citizens using these medications and yet mentally ill shooters are are few in numbers.
Can you explain this please.

ERic


He can't.  It would take actual research, instead of the easy road where you can just parrot some talking points.   My brother in law takes an SSRI and they help him.  He's a great guy, and I'd trust him to have my 6 before everyone in my life other than my wife and kids.

So you brother taking SSRI's makes you an expert on the subject or do you have some other form of educational background in the subject like I do?

https://www.google.com/#q=ssri+linked+to+violence
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:26:41 PM EDT
Unfortunately their no real way to ban just liberals from owning guns
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:27:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 2:30:33 PM EDT by AR-10]
Originally Posted By saigamanTX:
The universal background check keeps coming up as a way to keep guns out of criminals and the mentally disturbed....that seems to be the answer but how would it work? The liberal mind set seems to be well we need to do what we can to keep guns away from those types . I get that part of the argument and I agree but their argument and solutions seem like one never ending circle jerk .

The question is. "Is there really a fix on the mental illness side in relation to gun crime?"
View Quote



Short answer...no.
End of thread.

The rest of it is just pointless arguing about who defines mental illness and who controls the drugs that sometimes help.  

Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:31:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 3:13:10 PM EDT by deadbolt308]
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Originally Posted By tango1978:

One of my degrees is in psychology with a  focus in pharmacology, SSRI's do in fact have a  have a strong correlation to violence and if you would like to research it a simple Google search of (ssri and violence) will get you some research and stats on it. SSRI's are the most commonly overly prescribed drugs in the US, even more so that pain medication at the moment. Psychotropic drugs are shown to be over 50% more effective when psychotherapy is included in the treatment however that don't happen when MD's are giving these out like candy.
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Originally Posted By tango1978:
Originally Posted By deadbolt308:
Originally Posted By tango1978:
Fix number one is to get Family MD's to quit handing out SSRI's like candy and only let psychiatrists prescribe them.


Please defend your answer.  Not with the usual  nonsense thrown around here. Use actual data that shows a correlation between SSRI use and  increased violence.  There are tens of millions of citizens using these medications and yet mentally ill shooters are are few in numbers.
Can you explain this please.

ERic

One of my degrees is in psychology with a  focus in pharmacology, SSRI's do in fact have a  have a strong correlation to violence and if you would like to research it a simple Google search of (ssri and violence) will get you some research and stats on it. SSRI's are the most commonly overly prescribed drugs in the US, even more so that pain medication at the moment. Psychotropic drugs are shown to be over 50% more effective when psychotherapy is included in the treatment however that don't happen when MD's are giving these out like candy.


So with your degrees you should be a bright guy.  Why aren't all these over prescribed people killing folks.  You can't answer it because the drugs aren't what's is causing the violence.  These people are ill before they seek the medicine out.  The fact is that these medicines are helping far more people than they are hurting. You want a nice easy answer and I'd venture a guess you would be willing to take away people's second amendment for taking these medications.  Sad fact is the mentally ill are with us and are going to do some horrible things.
Living in a free society has a price.

ERic
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:36:08 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tango1978:


Fix number one is to get Family MD's to quit handing out SSRI's like candy and only let psychiatrists prescribe them.
View Quote
This. Plus get folks who need it into an institution where they can be helped while protecting society from them.

 
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:36:43 PM EDT

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Originally Posted By captainpooby:


There is a certain price you have to pay for living in a free society.
View Quote
Damn, This to.

 
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:37:24 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By tango1978:

So you brother taking SSRI's makes you an expert on the subject or do you have some other form of educational background in the subject like I do?

https://www.google.com/#q=ssri+linked+to+violence
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Originally Posted By tango1978:
Originally Posted By Ogive:
Originally Posted By deadbolt308:
Originally Posted By tango1978:
Fix number one is to get Family MD's to quit handing out SSRI's like candy and only let psychiatrists prescribe them.


Please defend your answer.  Not with the usual  nonsense thrown around here. Use actual data that shows a correlation between SSRI use and  increased violence.  There are tens of millions of citizens using these medications and yet mentally ill shooters are are few in numbers.
Can you explain this please.

ERic


He can't.  It would take actual research, instead of the easy road where you can just parrot some talking points.   My brother in law takes an SSRI and they help him.  He's a great guy, and I'd trust him to have my 6 before everyone in my life other than my wife and kids.

So you brother taking SSRI's makes you an expert on the subject or do you have some other form of educational background in the subject like I do?

https://www.google.com/#q=ssri+linked+to+violence


Sorry,  you don't get to be condescending and try to make this guy look bad.  Simple fact is his brother in law is like the millions of people who take SSRI medication. HARMLESS.  People like you are going to play a part in some day getting millions of people barred from being able to own firearms.  Is that maybe your goal?  Kind of a "I can but you can't" type of thing?

ERic
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:40:36 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ogive:
He can't.  It would take actual research, instead of the easy road where you can just parrot some talking points.   My brother in law takes an SSRI and they help him.  He's a great guy, and I'd trust him to have my 6 before everyone in my life other than my wife and kids.
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Originally Posted By Ogive:



Originally Posted By deadbolt308:


Originally Posted By tango1978:

Fix number one is to get Family MD's to quit handing out SSRI's like candy and only let psychiatrists prescribe them.




Please defend your answer.  Not with the usual  nonsense thrown around here. Use actual data that shows a correlation between SSRI use and  increased violence.  There are tens of millions of citizens using these medications and yet mentally ill shooters are are few in numbers.

Can you explain this please.



ERic




He can't.  It would take actual research, instead of the easy road where you can just parrot some talking points.   My brother in law takes an SSRI and they help him.  He's a great guy, and I'd trust him to have my 6 before everyone in my life other than my wife and kids.
Nobody said EVERY single person who takes them is violent. But, if they need more help than happy pills, they need to get it. We don't do that much anymore.

 
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:41:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 2:46:15 PM EDT by LuckyDucky]
If you can't be trusted with a gun, then you should be in prison or a mental institution.


ETA:  minors are the exception to my above statement.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:42:27 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By deadbolt308:


So with your degrees you should be a bright guy.  Why aren't all these over prescribed people killing folks.  You can't answer it because the drugs aren't what's is causing the violence.  These people are ill before they seek the medicine out.  The fact is that these medicines are helping far more people than they are hurting. You want a nice easy answer and I'd venture a guess you would be willing to take away people's second amendment for taking these medications.  Sad fact is the mentally ill are with us and are going to do some horrible things.
Leaving in a free society has a price.

ERic
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Originally Posted By deadbolt308:
Originally Posted By tango1978:
Originally Posted By deadbolt308:
Originally Posted By tango1978:
Fix number one is to get Family MD's to quit handing out SSRI's like candy and only let psychiatrists prescribe them.


Please defend your answer.  Not with the usual  nonsense thrown around here. Use actual data that shows a correlation between SSRI use and  increased violence.  There are tens of millions of citizens using these medications and yet mentally ill shooters are are few in numbers.
Can you explain this please.

ERic

One of my degrees is in psychology with a  focus in pharmacology, SSRI's do in fact have a  have a strong correlation to violence and if you would like to research it a simple Google search of (ssri and violence) will get you some research and stats on it. SSRI's are the most commonly overly prescribed drugs in the US, even more so that pain medication at the moment. Psychotropic drugs are shown to be over 50% more effective when psychotherapy is included in the treatment however that don't happen when MD's are giving these out like candy.


So with your degrees you should be a bright guy.  Why aren't all these over prescribed people killing folks.  You can't answer it because the drugs aren't what's is causing the violence.  These people are ill before they seek the medicine out.  The fact is that these medicines are helping far more people than they are hurting. You want a nice easy answer and I'd venture a guess you would be willing to take away people's second amendment for taking these medications.  Sad fact is the mentally ill are with us and are going to do some horrible things.
Leaving in a free society has a price.

ERic


So what you really want to know is if I think that someone takes psychotropic drugs should lose their second amendment right, is that correct?

Answer is no however I think that someone who needs a drug to function also needs regular appointments with someone who specializes in the brain and behavior to make sure they are on the correct drug, the drug works, is still working. The long term use of any drugs leads to the body reacting differently to the drug, many times this is tolerance which means they need a stronger dose however with psychotropic meds  other things can happen such effecting neurotransmitters and parts of the brain that help us make correct decision making.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:42:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By saigamanTX:
The universal background check keeps coming up as a way to keep guns out of criminals and the mentally disturbed....that seems to be the answer but how would it work? The liberal mind set seems to be well we need to do what we can to keep guns away from those types . I get that part of the argument and I agree but their argument and solutions seem like one never ending circle jerk .

The question is. "Is there really a fix on the mental illness side in relation to gun crime?"
View Quote



Bring back mental institutions that are more than 48-hour observation wards.  Many of the mass murderers in the last 10 years had tried to get help, but were either put on meds and dismissed, or their loved ones couldn't get them committed for a long period of time. Some people need to be institutionalized.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:44:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 2:57:24 PM EDT by douglasmorris99]
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Originally Posted By captainpooby:
There is a certain price you have to pay for living in a free society.
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according to some in the psychiatric community, Conservatism is a mental illness, GUN Ownership and the
desire of Self defense is a mental illness. Christianity and many other forms of faith, are a mental illness and they
are taking steps to normalize these theories.
THEN what are your children and grandchildren that you've spent years trying to influence into gun loving conservative Christian(insert personal beliefs here) going to do when the come to their school, office, house of worship and tell them they're criminally insane due to their personal belief systems?????


There have already been incidences where a women lost a son, she became depressed, she took anti depressants for about a year.
This is now on her medical records and with Obamacare it will follow her EVERYWHERE via her s/s number..AntiDepressants will cost you your gun rights...
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:45:11 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 03fxsti:
Nobody said EVERY single person who takes them is violent. But, if they need more help than happy pills, they need to get it. We don't do that much anymore.  
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Originally Posted By 03fxsti:
Originally Posted By Ogive:
Originally Posted By deadbolt308:
Originally Posted By tango1978:
Fix number one is to get Family MD's to quit handing out SSRI's like candy and only let psychiatrists prescribe them.


Please defend your answer.  Not with the usual  nonsense thrown around here. Use actual data that shows a correlation between SSRI use and  increased violence.  There are tens of millions of citizens using these medications and yet mentally ill shooters are are few in numbers.
Can you explain this please.

ERic


He can't.  It would take actual research, instead of the easy road where you can just parrot some talking points.   My brother in law takes an SSRI and they help him.  He's a great guy, and I'd trust him to have my 6 before everyone in my life other than my wife and kids.
Nobody said EVERY single person who takes them is violent. But, if they need more help than happy pills, they need to get it. We don't do that much anymore.  


Over simplification.  Eventually liberals will try and lump every person who takes "happy pills" as a potentially dangerous person.  If you don't see this you are lying to yourself.  The NRA  even had an article about this a few years back.

ERic
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:47:28 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By deadbolt308:


Sorry,  you don't get to be condescending and try to make this guy look bad.  Simple fact is his brother in law is like the millions of people who take SSRI medication. HARMLESS.  People like you are going to play a part in some day getting millions of people barred from being able to own firearms.  Is that maybe your goal?  Kind of a "I can but you can't" type of thing?

ERic
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Originally Posted By deadbolt308:
Originally Posted By tango1978:
Originally Posted By Ogive:
Originally Posted By deadbolt308:
Originally Posted By tango1978:
Fix number one is to get Family MD's to quit handing out SSRI's like candy and only let psychiatrists prescribe them.


Please defend your answer.  Not with the usual  nonsense thrown around here. Use actual data that shows a correlation between SSRI use and  increased violence.  There are tens of millions of citizens using these medications and yet mentally ill shooters are are few in numbers.
Can you explain this please.

ERic


He can't.  It would take actual research, instead of the easy road where you can just parrot some talking points.   My brother in law takes an SSRI and they help him.  He's a great guy, and I'd trust him to have my 6 before everyone in my life other than my wife and kids.

So you brother taking SSRI's makes you an expert on the subject or do you have some other form of educational background in the subject like I do?

https://www.google.com/#q=ssri+linked+to+violence


Sorry,  you don't get to be condescending and try to make this guy look bad.  Simple fact is his brother in law is like the millions of people who take SSRI medication. HARMLESS.  People like you are going to play a part in some day getting millions of people barred from being able to own firearms.  Is that maybe your goal?  Kind of a "I can but you can't" type of thing?

ERic


No one is saying that a lot of folks don't use them and no one is saying that you should lose your rights for taking them. People like me?

Bud you can get worked up all you like really don't care one way or the other but I will still tell you what I think on the subject .If you need drugs for proper brain function that is nothing to be ashamed of just like any other illness is nothing to be ashamed of however i feel that someone that takes psychotropic medication should also get regular visits with a professional who specializes in that field.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:54:09 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tango1978:


So what you really want to know is if I think that someone takes psychotropic drugs should lose their second amendment right, is that correct?

Answer is no however I think that someone who needs a drug to function also needs regular appointments with someone who specializes in the brain and behavior to make sure they are on the correct drug, the drug works, is still working. The long term use of any drugs leads to the body reacting differently to the drug, many times this is tolerance which means they need a stronger dose however with psychotropic meds  other things can happen such effecting neurotransmitters and parts of the brain that help us make correct decision making.
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Originally Posted By tango1978:
Originally Posted By deadbolt308:
Originally Posted By tango1978:
Originally Posted By deadbolt308:
Originally Posted By tango1978:
Fix number one is to get Family MD's to quit handing out SSRI's like candy and only let psychiatrists prescribe them.


Please defend your answer.  Not with the usual  nonsense thrown around here. Use actual data that shows a correlation between SSRI use and  increased violence.  There are tens of millions of citizens using these medications and yet mentally ill shooters are are few in numbers.
Can you explain this please.

ERic

One of my degrees is in psychology with a  focus in pharmacology, SSRI's do in fact have a  have a strong correlation to violence and if you would like to research it a simple Google search of (ssri and violence) will get you some research and stats on it. SSRI's are the most commonly overly prescribed drugs in the US, even more so that pain medication at the moment. Psychotropic drugs are shown to be over 50% more effective when psychotherapy is included in the treatment however that don't happen when MD's are giving these out like candy.


So with your degrees you should be a bright guy.  Why aren't all these over prescribed people killing folks.  You can't answer it because the drugs aren't what's is causing the violence.  These people are ill before they seek the medicine out.  The fact is that these medicines are helping far more people than they are hurting. You want a nice easy answer and I'd venture a guess you would be willing to take away people's second amendment for taking these medications.  Sad fact is the mentally ill are with us and are going to do some horrible things.
Leaving in a free society has a price.

ERic


So what you really want to know is if I think that someone takes psychotropic drugs should lose their second amendment right, is that correct?

Answer is no however I think that someone who needs a drug to function also needs regular appointments with someone who specializes in the brain and behavior to make sure they are on the correct drug, the drug works, is still working. The long term use of any drugs leads to the body reacting differently to the drug, many times this is tolerance which means they need a stronger dose however with psychotropic meds  other things can happen such effecting neurotransmitters and parts of the brain that help us make correct decision making.


And with the government becoming entrenched in healthcare you don't see your solution of forcing people to see a psychiatrist  to hold the potential for Americans being disarmed?  Please be honest.

ERic
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:55:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:55:28 PM EDT
Yes. Institutionalize crazy people; thats what we did up until the '70s.

How's that for simple.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:57:00 PM EDT
You will never and I mean NEVER stop a crazy person hell bent on killing people from killing.
It's a fundamental problem with how we deal with the mentally Ill.
Throwing pills at someone that's crazy while everyone else ignores the early warning signs of violence is not the way to keep them from going postal?
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:57:02 PM EDT
The problem is who gets to define mental illness?  We know what happens when the antis define an "assault rifle" (anything semi auto).  What happens when they have a different way to disarm the people?  Mental illnesses that prohibit gun ownership will become anyone who has ever been depressed or had a panic attack.  People will fear seeking proper medical treatment for fear of losing their rights.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:58:38 PM EDT
No way to predict.





Many go undiagnosed or untreated, then snap so even if you could keep all the clinically mentally ill from getting guns, knives , cars, etc, you still have a large number that will never be diagnosed with the potenial to either shoot someone or drive down a crowded side walk.





That said, the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

 
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:58:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By captainpooby:
There is a certain price you have to pay for living in a free society.
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Anyone who disagrees is part of the problem.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:59:20 PM EDT
Anyone ever take topomax and have frequent migraines?   Guess what they might just consider that a reason to take your guns . Mental health issues can be painted with a very broad brush.  

Link Posted: 1/26/2014 2:59:44 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 101VooDoo:
Yes. Institutionalize crazy people; thats what we did up until the '70s.

How's that for simple.
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Who gets the power to call you crazy and why?  Maybe your neighbor thinks you are crazy because you have lots of guns, he calls the cops, the DA chooses a doctor that is anti-gun.  Now you are locked up because your neighbor doesn't like your hobby.

Doesn't sound that simple.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:00:52 PM EDT
So long as they take away crazy peoples' driver's licenses first.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:01:01 PM EDT
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And with the government becoming entrenched in healthcare you don't see your solution of forcing people to see a psychiatrist  to hold the potential for Americans being disarmed?  Please be honest.

ERic
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No not really because with the proper medication and psychotherapy most disorders can be balance and the individual will have normal behavior. I actually think it would be better for everyone because the individuals would get the correct medication and dosage needed and a trained professional to talk to if needed. What happening now is MD's are basically prescribing the same drug and dosage to almost every patient, look at some of the TV ads that say "ask you doctor if this is right for you".

Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:01:43 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GumbyTM:



Anyone who disagrees is part of the problem.
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Originally Posted By GumbyTM:
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
There is a certain price you have to pay for living in a free society.



Anyone who disagrees is part of the problem.



Truth.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:02:15 PM EDT
Actually.. if you want to reduce Violence, Crime, and Shootings..  The population needs to fall significantly, and move to a more rural setting.  Major cities are hubs of violent crime and lot of it has to do with overpopulation and the poverty that is more easily supported in an urban area. The more people there are, the more outliers there are who commit mass murders too.

So, level the cities with all of the people in them, and you have a good start.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:03:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:03:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:06:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 3:07:27 PM EDT by deadbolt308]
No one is saying that a lot of folks don't use them and no one is saying that you should lose your rights for taking them. People like me?

Bud you can get worked up all you like really don't care one way or the other but I will still tell you what I think on the subject .If you need drugs for proper brain function that is nothing to be ashamed of just like any other illness is nothing to be ashamed of however i feel that someone that takes psychotropic medication should also get regular visits with a professional who specializes in that field


First of all we aren't buddies.  Second I don't need pills to do anything.  My point is simple.  People like you are falling into a trap.   Eventually this will come around and bite gun owners on the butt.  The anti gunners are smart. Eventually this will be used to try and disarm a lot of good people.

ERic
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:07:53 PM EDT
The problem lies in defining "mentally unstable" and finding someone qualified enough to do it.

Many proposed gun bills would have people who don't know ANYTHING about mental illnesses signing off on that little permission slip. Furthermore, everything and anything is an "illness" these days. It's no longer acceptable to be bummed after a divorce or unsatisfied with a bland life, it's "depression". It's no longer acceptable to become frustrated or outwardly angry, because otherwise you have "anger issues" or you have some sort of "personality disorder".

Hell, even a lot of law enforcement agencies would be understaffed if this were to be the case. So then what? You've only disqualified the people dumb enough to be truthful about their lives from getting a firearm. The most unstable and unsuitable people to own guns are going the be the ones cunning enough to hide that from others.
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From a post I made on Facebook about this last night.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:10:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By tango1978:

So you brother taking SSRI's makes you an expert on the subject or do you have some other form of educational background in the subject like I do?

https://www.google.com/#q=ssri+linked+to+violence
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Originally Posted By tango1978:
Originally Posted By Ogive:
Originally Posted By deadbolt308:
Originally Posted By tango1978:
Fix number one is to get Family MD's to quit handing out SSRI's like candy and only let psychiatrists prescribe them.


Please defend your answer.  Not with the usual  nonsense thrown around here. Use actual data that shows a correlation between SSRI use and  increased violence.  There are tens of millions of citizens using these medications and yet mentally ill shooters are are few in numbers.
Can you explain this please.

ERic


He can't.  It would take actual research, instead of the easy road where you can just parrot some talking points.   My brother in law takes an SSRI and they help him.  He's a great guy, and I'd trust him to have my 6 before everyone in my life other than my wife and kids.

So you brother taking SSRI's makes you an expert on the subject or do you have some other form of educational background in the subject like I do?

https://www.google.com/#q=ssri+linked+to+violence


1. Does your degree confer you a license to prescribe these drugs to patients?
2. Do you have any peer-reviewed empirical data to prove your assertion, or are we supposed to accept Psychology Today, Time magazine, and Michael Moore's opinions?
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:12:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 3:15:14 PM EDT by boltcatch]
Originally Posted By saigamanTX:
The universal background check keeps coming up as a way to keep guns out of criminals and the mentally disturbed....that seems to be the answer but how would it work? The liberal mind set seems to be well we need to do what we can to keep guns away from those types . I get that part of the argument and I agree but their argument and solutions seem like one never ending circle jerk .

The question is. "Is there really a fix on the mental illness side in relation to gun crime?"
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Yes.  And that answer has fuckall to do with background checks.  A quick examination of sex offender registries and no-fly lists shows pretty conclusively that the powers that be cannot be trusted to create a list of "crazies not allowed to own weapons" without mission creep and outright abuse.

Not in a million years will you be able to prevent every incident of someone going postal.  But -

If you're an able bodied adult and can't be trusted with a weapon, then you can't be trusted to walk around free. Period.   That we even have to have a discussion about this just shows how dysfunctional things are becoming.

I have a lot of reservations about our prison system and how many people we lock up, but our mental health system is a joke.  It doesn't matter how "mean" it is to say it, but some people are just batshit.


Now, politically, you have to remember that most of the lefty leadership really doesn't give a fuck about crazy people murdering anyone.   They're wealthy and are pretty convinced that things like that only happen to other people.   Their non-stop gun grabbing has little or nothing to do about mental health issues and everything to do with power.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:13:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 3:19:27 PM EDT by 101VooDoo]
Originally Posted By ti22_4788:
Originally Posted By 101VooDoo:
Yes. Institutionalize crazy people; thats what we did up until the '70s.

How's that for simple.
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Who gets the power to call you crazy and why?  Maybe your neighbor thinks you are crazy because you have lots of guns, he calls the cops, the DA chooses a doctor that is anti-gun.  Now you are locked up because your neighbor doesn't like your hobby.

Doesn't sound that simple.
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It is that simple.

A doctor does a psych eval and makes a recommendation to a judge, who commits you.  We did for most of the 19th and 20th centuries.  You're institutionalized for your own safety and the safety of others, and receive the treatment you need.

We as a nation stopped doing this in the late 70's to save money, and now dump mentally ill & dangerous people onto their families, or the street if their families can't/won't take care of them.  Homeless people in the '70s tended to be substance abusers, now the majority are those with serious mental issues that the states refuse to take care of.

You have an Adam Lanza for a son?  Good luck getting the state or your insurance company to help.

We give money to healthy adults for doing nothing, but dump those that need our help the most on the street.



Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:16:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By tango1978:
Fix number one is to get Family MD's to quit handing out SSRI's like candy and only let psychiatrists prescribe them.
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FPIFR

(first post is fucking retarded)


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:16:55 PM EDT
It's not like these same people haven't been around us all along, we just have better diagnosis for what's wrong with them.

Everyone gets a free chance to behave.  if you can't, you get the government trying to put in jail.  It's not perfect, but it's the best we can have.

The more we strive to increase the feeling of safety past that, the more infringement you invite into your life.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:17:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DK-Prof:


Most of the "evidence" of a link between SSRIs and violence consists of nothing but assumption and observed correlation.  The logic is often DEEPLY flawed, and ignores the self-selection of the people who are taking SSRIs in the first place.

I am curious if you can provide some example of properly controlled large-scale studies that actually demonstrate this link, as opposed to a claim and some google links.  
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Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By tango1978:
Originally Posted By deadbolt308:
Originally Posted By tango1978:
Fix number one is to get Family MD's to quit handing out SSRI's like candy and only let psychiatrists prescribe them.


Please defend your answer.  Not with the usual  nonsense thrown around here. Use actual data that shows a correlation between SSRI use and  increased violence.  There are tens of millions of citizens using these medications and yet mentally ill shooters are are few in numbers.
Can you explain this please.

ERic

One of my degrees is in psychology with a  focus in pharmacology, SSRI's do in fact have a  have a strong correlation to violence and if you would like to research it a simple Google search of (ssri and violence) will get you some research and stats on it. SSRI's are the most commonly overly prescribed drugs in the US, even more so that pain medication at the moment. Psychotropic drugs are shown to be over 50% more effective when psychotherapy is included in the treatment however that don't happen when MD's are giving these out like candy.


Most of the "evidence" of a link between SSRIs and violence consists of nothing but assumption and observed correlation.  The logic is often DEEPLY flawed, and ignores the self-selection of the people who are taking SSRIs in the first place.

I am curious if you can provide some example of properly controlled large-scale studies that actually demonstrate this link, as opposed to a claim and some google links.  


Actually Harvard has done in depth studies on this as well the England Journal of Medicine, if you have a paid subscription to their journals I can send you the links to access these.

I also still have one 19 page study saved on my computer that I used on a research paper a few years back that has some great in depth analysis on SSRI's and their relationship to suicide, violence and mania. It was published by the International Journal of Risk & Safety in Medicine and it offers some great research on the topic. IM me your email address and I will get it to you.
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