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Posted: 6/29/2015 12:12:18 PM EDT
Memphis Mayor A C Wharton has called for the removal of the grave of Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest from a city park, along with an attached memorial.

"These relics, these messages of this despicable period of this great nation, it’s time for those to be moved,” Wharton said in a press conference Thursday.

Most historians believe that Forrest was also the first Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan, although he later distanced himself from the group as they became more violent. "This is not just an ordinary monument,” Wharton said. "This is a monument to a man who was the avowed founder of the organization that has as its purpose the intimidation, the oppression of black folks.”

The local Sons of Confederate Veterans are opposed to the mayor’s proposal, naturally. Its leader calls Forrest "very well respected, and a military leader who is still studied worldwide in military academies today.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/memphis-mayor-wants-to-literally-dig-up-confederate-general-and-move-him/





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Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:29:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:30:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:34:57 PM EDT
Dale Earnhardt Jr. on Confederate flag: 'It's offensive to an entire race' (which race the Firecracker 400 or Daytona 500?)

SONOMA, Calif. — Dale Earnhardt Jr. doesn't think much of the Confederate flag.

NASCAR's most popular driver reiterated his longtime stance on the flag Friday when asked by reporters at Sonoma Raceway, saying he agreed with NASCAR that it should be removed from the grounds of the South Carolina state capitol.

"I think it's offensive to an entire race," Earnhardt said. "It does nothing for anybody to be there flying, so I don't see any reason. It belongs in the history books and that's about it."
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:36:17 PM EDT
Reconstruction Phase IV
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:40:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:40:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:40:52 PM EDT
Heinlein was right, The Crazy Years are upon us.

Now we just need Nehemiah Scudder to come out of the woodwork.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:42:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:44:55 PM EDT
I would be more than happy to have the General's remains and statue move to my place. It would be an honor to have him near by.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:47:18 PM EDT
ISIS would be proud.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:49:43 PM EDT
Pretty hard to learn from history when you destroy any evidence it ever happened.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:50:41 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pony151515:
ISIS would be proud.
View Quote


But the monuments they blow up aren't offensive to anyone.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:52:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2015 1:52:57 PM EDT by ChrisLRS]
Considering he was the first grand wizard of the KKK, I don't think it is unreasonable for him to not be seen as a hero.

Inb4 people defend the KKK with historical revisionism about how it "wasn't that bad at first" or defend NBF by pointing out how he left the organization before he died, and yet, even after leaving, he claimed he had somehow always been a friend of black people. Even while wearing his robes. Yeah, real convincing stuff.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:01:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2015 2:01:58 PM EDT by LaRue_Tactical]
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:01:50 PM EDT
This neighborhood is near me.



I've wondered if people knew who it was named after. Its days are surely numbered now.

Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:02:47 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:



Mayor is a Democrat ?

Unsnoped from the internet ...

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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By ChrisLRS:
Considering he was the first grand wizard of the KKK, I don't think it is unreasonable for him to not be seen as a hero.

Inb4 people defend the KKK with historical revisionism about how it "wasn't that bad at first" or defend NBF by pointing out how he left the organization before he died, and yet, even after leaving, he claimed he had somehow always been a friend of black people. Even while wearing his robes. Yeah, real convincing stuff.



Mayor is a Democrat ?

Unsnoped from the internet ...

Fact: The Ku Klux Klan was originally and primarily an arm of the Southern Democratic Party. Its mission was to terrorize freed slaves and "n-word-loving" (their words) Republicans who sympathized with them.


This shit is getting out of control.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:03:46 PM EDT
Once you dig the guy up now what? The mayor can't just magic his remains out of existence.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:04:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:08:56 PM EDT
I hope the Ghost of Natan Bedford Forrest haunts his ass Liberal ass forevermore until he goes crazy.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:10:36 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Yossarian:


But the monuments they blow up aren't offensive to anyone.
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Originally Posted By Yossarian:
Originally Posted By Pony151515:
ISIS would be proud.


But the monuments they blow up aren't offensive to anyone.

They are offensive to the people blowing them up
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:11:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:13:46 PM EDT
the reason this country is doomed, is the sheer number of morons in power.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:14:42 PM EDT
Yeah well the guy who actually designed the confederate battle flag is buried in my hometown, and we have a confederate statute too. But there's only one black guy in the entire town, and so far he hasn't made any demands.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:22:55 PM EDT
In the immortal words of Momma Gump

"Stupid is as stupid does"
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:32:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Yossarian:


But the monuments they blow up aren't offensive to anyone.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Yossarian:
Originally Posted By Pony151515:
ISIS would be proud.


But the monuments they blow up aren't offensive to anyone.

Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:33:26 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
I hear the Japanese wrote their WWII war crime shenanigans right our of their history books ...

... in their minds they are all from a history pure as the driven snow.
View Quote



Companies that make video games about WWII have to make a special version for the German market that has all the Swastikas and Iron crosses removed for planes, ground vehicles, and uniforms.

They are illegal there.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:34:40 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MudBug:



Companies that make video games about WWII have to make a special version for the German market that has all the Swastikas and Iron crosses removed for planes, ground vehicles, and uniforms.

They are illegal there.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MudBug:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
I hear the Japanese wrote their WWII war crime shenanigans right our of their history books ...

... in their minds they are all from a history pure as the driven snow.



Companies that make video games about WWII have to make a special version for the German market that has all the Swastikas and Iron crosses removed for planes, ground vehicles, and uniforms.

They are illegal there.


Apple just made that a requirement now for civil war games/apps.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:34:51 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:



Mayor is a Democrat ?

Unsnoped from the internet ...

View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By ChrisLRS:
Considering he was the first grand wizard of the KKK, I don't think it is unreasonable for him to not be seen as a hero.

Inb4 people defend the KKK with historical revisionism about how it "wasn't that bad at first" or defend NBF by pointing out how he left the organization before he died, and yet, even after leaving, he claimed he had somehow always been a friend of black people. Even while wearing his robes. Yeah, real convincing stuff.



Mayor is a Democrat ?

Unsnoped from the internet ...

Fact: The Ku Klux Klan was originally and primarily an arm of the Southern Democratic Party. Its mission was to terrorize freed slaves and "n-word-loving" (their words) Republicans who sympathized with them.


Yes, and?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:35:26 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ReconB4:


Just because you said "in before" doesn't mean you're any more right than if you didn't say anything at all.
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Originally Posted By ReconB4:
Originally Posted By ChrisLRS:
Considering he was the first grand wizard of the KKK, I don't think it is unreasonable for him to not be seen as a hero.

Inb4 people defend the KKK with historical revisionism about how it "wasn't that bad at first" or defend NBF by pointing out how he left the organization before he died, and yet, even after leaving, he claimed he had somehow always been a friend of black people. Even while wearing his robes. Yeah, real convincing stuff.


Just because you said "in before" doesn't mean you're any more right than if you didn't say anything at all.


So are you gonna be the one to defend the Klan, or just beat around the bush?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:35:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:37:10 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ReconB4:


Just because you said "in before" doesn't mean you're any more right than if you didn't say anything at all.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ReconB4:
Originally Posted By ChrisLRS:
Considering he was the first grand wizard of the KKK, I don't think it is unreasonable for him to not be seen as a hero.

Inb4 people defend the KKK with historical revisionism about how it "wasn't that bad at first" or defend NBF by pointing out how he left the organization before he died, and yet, even after leaving, he claimed he had somehow always been a friend of black people. Even while wearing his robes. Yeah, real convincing stuff.


Just because you said "in before" doesn't mean you're any more right than if you didn't say anything at all.


thats a little trick those with weak or specious arguments like to use......
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:39:47 PM EDT
Forrest was a brilliant Calvary General, IMO if he would have been in charge of Lee's Cav. at Gettysburg in stead of the preening fop, the entirety of the Civil War would have been different.

IMO, his military monuments should stand.

Set aside any political leanings... desecrating his (and his families) grave is wrong. period.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:40:06 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:


Mayor is bitching about his own bunch ?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By ChrisLRS:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By ChrisLRS:
Considering he was the first grand wizard of the KKK, I don't think it is unreasonable for him to not be seen as a hero.

Inb4 people defend the KKK with historical revisionism about how it "wasn't that bad at first" or defend NBF by pointing out how he left the organization before he died, and yet, even after leaving, he claimed he had somehow always been a friend of black people. Even while wearing his robes. Yeah, real convincing stuff.



Mayor is a Democrat ?

Unsnoped from the internet ...

Fact: The Ku Klux Klan was originally and primarily an arm of the Southern Democratic Party. Its mission was to terrorize freed slaves and "n-word-loving" (their words) Republicans who sympathized with them.


Yes, and?


Mayor is bitching about his own bunch ?


I mean, yes, if you ignore the fundamental change in the policy of the Democratic Party as the GOP adopted its "southern strategy".

But why do you think I don't have just as much a problem with the Democratic Party (today or in 1870) as I do with memorials glorifying white nationalist insurrectionaries? I'm not allowed to be against both, the modern liberal democrats and the racist populists?

Do you know what a strawman is?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:40:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:41:23 PM EDT
go ahead, dig him up, this is one fucking step too far.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:45:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:50:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:52:44 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ChrisLRS:

I mean, yes, if you ignore the fundamental change in the policy of the Democratic Party as the GOP adopted its "southern strategy".

But why do you think I don't have just as much a problem with the Democratic Party (today or in 1870) as I do with memorials glorifying white nationalist insurrectionaries? I'm not allowed to be against both, the modern liberal democrats and the racist populists?

Do you know what a strawman is?
View Quote


The Dem party didn't change so much as the membership changed. The Dem party was always a populist, socialist leaning party. Repubs were always pro-capitalism, big business, etc. Are you also outraged by the monuments and flags of the european countries who transported and sold slaves, not just to the U.S., but to the Caribbean, South America (in much greater numbers)?
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 2:54:29 PM EDT
Where dey posed ta go now ?




One guess who it is named after.

Link Posted: 6/29/2015 3:19:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2015 3:24:51 PM EDT by DvlDog]
Good Dig.

Read about Forrest, He is a fascinating character (and a badass) but definitely a scumbag. A man like that shouldn't have a monument even if the south had won.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 5:06:12 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
I hear the Japanese wrote their WWII war crime shenanigans right our of their history books ...

... in their minds they are all from a history pure as the driven snow.
View Quote


Do you mean that the Forrest grave and statue are there to remind us about how bad of a guy he was?

Link Posted: 6/29/2015 5:10:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By THOF:
Once you dig the guy up now what? The mayor can't just magic his remains out of existence.
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Put them back where he was originally buried, at Elmwood Cemetery. Perhaps most people here don't know, but Forrest's remains were moved to the current location in 1905--almost 40 years after he died--as a celebration and commemoration of him and the Confederacy.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 5:13:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 4thbreak:
Memphis Mayor A C Wharton has called for the removal of the grave of Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest from a city park, along with an attached memorial.


"These relics, these messages of this despicable period of this great nation, it’s time for those to be moved,” Wharton said in a press conference Thursday.


Most historians believe that Forrest was also the first Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan, although he later distanced himself from the group as they became more violent. "This is not just an ordinary monument,” Wharton said. "This is a monument to a man who was the avowed founder of the organization that has as its purpose the intimidation, the oppression of black folks.”


The local Sons of Confederate Veterans are opposed to the mayor’s proposal, naturally. Its leader calls Forrest "very well respected, and a military leader who is still studied worldwide in military academies today.”


http://www.mediaite.com/tv/memphis-mayor-wants-to-literally-dig-up-confederate-general-and-move-him/







View Quote


View Quote
googled the mayor's name, found a picture that confirmed what I suspected.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 5:15:50 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
I hear the Japanese wrote their WWII war crime shenanigans right our of their history books ...

... in their minds they are all from a history pure as the driven snow.
View Quote

went to school with a couple Japanese student's back in the 70's, I can confirm this.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 5:18:13 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By XD_Fan:
Heinlein was right, The Crazy Years are upon us.

Now we just need Nehemiah Scudder to come out of the woodwork.
View Quote

He was fictional,we will be able to much, much, better than that.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 5:19:46 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MudBug:



Companies that make video games about WWII have to make a special version for the German market that has all the Swastikas and Iron crosses removed for planes, ground vehicles, and uniforms.

They are illegal there.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MudBug:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
I hear the Japanese wrote their WWII war crime shenanigans right our of their history books ...

... in their minds they are all from a history pure as the driven snow.



Companies that make video games about WWII have to make a special version for the German market that has all the Swastikas and Iron crosses removed for planes, ground vehicles, and uniforms.

They are illegal there.


Has it done anything to wipe that portion of history away so that the mistakes and lessons learned can be re-learned at a later date?

Because erasing history only dooms us to repeat it. Remembering history and its lessons can allow us to not make the same mistakes.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 5:23:18 PM EDT
lol memphrica
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 5:23:40 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:



Mayor is a Democrat ?

Unsnoped from the internet ...

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Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By ChrisLRS:
Considering he was the first grand wizard of the KKK, I don't think it is unreasonable for him to not be seen as a hero.

Inb4 people defend the KKK with historical revisionism about how it "wasn't that bad at first" or defend NBF by pointing out how he left the organization before he died, and yet, even after leaving, he claimed he had somehow always been a friend of black people. Even while wearing his robes. Yeah, real convincing stuff.



Mayor is a Democrat ?

Unsnoped from the internet ...

Fact: The Ku Klux Klan was originally and primarily an arm of the Southern Democratic Party. Its mission was to terrorize freed slaves and "n-word-loving" (their words) Republicans who sympathized with them.

but these are good Democrats today, they are no longer bigots. Besides they don't want to ruin LBJ's welfare legacy.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 5:31:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/29/2015 5:32:50 PM EDT by Billybob2002]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ceddie:
Forrest was a brilliant Calvary General, IMO if he would have been in charge of Lee's Cav. at Gettysburg in stead of the preening fop, the entirety of the Civil War would have been different.

IMO, his military monuments should stand.

Set aside any political leanings... desecrating his (and his families) grave is wrong. period.
View Quote


He wasn't originally buried at the park. Organizers of the park moved his body to the park in 1904.

Most people don't realize but this is old news. People have been wanting for years to remove the monument; rename the park; and move the graves back to Elmwood Cemetery. Here is an article from 2005: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/05/us/in-a-city-on-the-move-a-civil-war-issue-refuses-to-die.html

With the recent shooting in South Carolina, it has put a spotlight on an old matter. And, it has given opponents of the park a renewed effort to push their grievances.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 5:42:00 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
I hear the Japanese wrote their WWII war crime shenanigans right our of their history books ...

... in their minds they are all from a history pure as the driven snow.
View Quote

My father went back to Pearl Harbor in, IIRC 1995 or so, he took the obligatory trip to the Arizona memorial, on the boat with him were a bunch of Japanese Tourists. According to him they were shocked reading the plaques and acted like they had never heard of the Pearl harbor attack before.
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