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Posted: 10/3/2004 12:25:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 1:48:25 PM EST by TheLastBoyScout]
I am in the process of applying for USMA, USNA, and NROTC. I have just been disqualified from them all because I have flat feet.

I've got waiver requests inbound on all 3.

What is the likelihood that the DQ will get overturned? In my waiver requests I pointed out that my disorder has ZERO effect on my physical activity, and that I routinely run distances of 4,6, or 9 miles for crew (the theoretical problem with flat feet is discomfort when running, or so I've been told).

If the DQ stays intact, I plan to try to enlist and see if I can get past it that way.

If not, then I guess I'm completely fucked.

Any thing I'm missing?
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 12:26:38 PM EST
I think flat feet are pretty common in the military now. I recall reading that as many as half of Marines are fitted with orthotics in boot.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 12:26:49 PM EST
Same thing kept me out of the Air Force in 1979. I went to college on my own dime instead.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 12:35:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I think flat feet are pretty common in the military now. I recall reading that as many as half of Marines are fitted with orthotics in boot.



Can you remmember where you got your info?...

I did the medic thing in the army for a lot of years, and yes Flat Feet are more and more common, but I highly doubt that in the area of 50% of Jarhead's need fitting w/ Orthotics...


Boyscout, Hang in there buddy, You have a real good chance of getting in....( I have done the paperwork for new soldiers with your situation)

I wanted to get back into the guard last year and they kill'd me off for a medical because I am lactose intolerent ( funny it never stopped me the first time around).
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 12:37:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheLastBoyScout:
I am in the process of applying for USMA, USNA, and NROTC. I have just been disqualified from them all because I have flat feet.



DODMERB said that?

Hell, I don't even remember them CHECKING for flat feet back in 85/86.....
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 12:39:00 PM EST
Yah, it was a book about Parris Island, called Boot. I forget the name of the author. It was written in the late 1980s. I remember thinking that that was an impressive number. I have flat feet myself, and wear orthotics.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 12:40:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By TheLastBoyScout:
I am in the process of applying for USMA, USNA, and NROTC. I have just been disqualified from them all because I have flat feet.



DODMERB said that?

Hell, I don't even remember them CHECKING for flat feet back in 85/86.....



Yep... made me make a specialist visit (specialist said there was no problem, no treatment necessary although orthotics were probly a good idea), got those results, sent me the letter.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 12:41:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2004 12:49:51 PM EST by TheLastBoyScout]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Yah, it was a book about Parris Island, called Boot. I forget the name of the author. It was written in the late 1980s. I remember thinking that that was an impressive number. I have flat feet myself, and wear orthotics.



Author was Daniel Da Cruz... got it sitting in my room... I'll go pull the number, I think I know where it is.

ETA: Found a reference to orthotics, no mention of how many guys get them.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 12:43:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheLastBoyScout:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By TheLastBoyScout:
I am in the process of applying for USMA, USNA, and NROTC. I have just been disqualified from them all because I have flat feet.



DODMERB said that?

Hell, I don't even remember them CHECKING for flat feet back in 85/86.....



Yep... made me make a specialist visit (specialist said there was no problem, no treatment necessary although orthotics were probly a good idea), got those results, sent me the letter.



Well.......... I'm afraid I don't know what to tell you. If the specialist said all is well, they may simply be weeding out the crop utilizing whatever excuses they have on hand. Back in my day, glasses were a big deal, and I had to get a waiver (as well as go to NAPS for it).

If you've appealed, then all you can do is wait. However, just because you didn't get into USNA doesn't mean you can't go into the Service. Granted, you'll have to follow a different track....

Makes no sense, but that's government for you....
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 12:45:35 PM EST
In the middle sixties they didn't care if you had flat feet, a friend of mine had flat feet, when he went in for his draft physical he thought that would disqualify him, they could care less if you had flat feet back then.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 12:53:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheLastBoyScout:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Yah, it was a book about Parris Island, called Boot. I forget the name of the author. It was written in the late 1980s. I remember thinking that that was an impressive number. I have flat feet myself, and wear orthotics.



Author was Daniel Da Cruz... got it sitting in my room... I'll go pull the number, I think I know where it is.

ETA: Found a reference to orthotics, no mention of how many guys get them.



I know I read this somewhere. I am pretty good at remembering figures, bad at remembering where I heard them.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 12:53:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By TheLastBoyScout:
I am in the process of applying for USMA, USNA, and NROTC. I have just been disqualified from them all because I have flat feet.



DODMERB said that?

Hell, I don't even remember them CHECKING for flat feet back in 85/86.....




DODMERB is a collection of cocksuckers and motherfuckers, so I wouldn't put it past the fatherless whores.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 12:55:00 PM EST
Well its reassuring anyway. Enlisting in the USMC has always been the top "non-college" plan.


Not that I don't want to go to college.... but I want to serve my country more.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 1:12:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheLastBoyScout:
Well its reassuring anyway. Enlisting in the USMC has always been the top "non-college" plan.


Not that I don't want to go to college.... but I want to serve my country more.



Got to college. Got to a college with an NROTC program, but go to college. DO NOT put that off if you have an opportunity to go.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 1:16:04 PM EST
I just re-uped for the 5th time. Trust me there is a waiver for everything. The important thing for you to do is follow-up with your recruiter often and make sure the waiver is moving along and they know you are interested as hell in joining.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 1:19:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheLastBoyScout:
I am in the process of applying for USMA, USNA, and NROTC. I have just been disqualified from them all because I have flat feet.

I've got waiver requests inbound on all 3.

What is the likelihood that the DQ will get overturned? In my waiver requests I pointed out that my disorder has ZERO effect on my physical activity, and that I routinely run distances of 4,6, or 9 miles for crew (the theoretical problem with flat feet is discomfort when running, or so I've been told).

If the DQ stays intact, I plan to try to enlist and see if I can get past it that way.

If not, then I guess I'm completely fucked.

Any thing I'm missing?



Try another service...

The Navy will likely NOT give you a wavier, as they are not 'in need' right now...

Provided you can run 2 miles, the Army & Air Force would most likely be more receptive...
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 1:22:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By R-32:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I think flat feet are pretty common in the military now. I recall reading that as many as half of Marines are fitted with orthotics in boot.



Can you remmember where you got your info?...

I did the medic thing in the army for a lot of years, and yes Flat Feet are more and more common, but I highly doubt that in the area of 50% of Jarhead's need fitting w/ Orthotics...


Boyscout, Hang in there buddy, You have a real good chance of getting in....( I have done the paperwork for new soldiers with your situation)

I wanted to get back into the guard last year and they kill'd me off for a medical because I am lactose intolerent ( funny it never stopped me the first time around).



Please say you are joking about the lactose intolerance. (I am very gullible.)
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 1:23:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By lonegunman:
Trust me there is a waiver for everything.




I heard this from about 50 people and discovered it is really not true.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 1:28:13 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Provided you can run 2 miles, the Army & Air Force would most likely be more receptive...



DODMERB covers all the Service Academies, so his options are limited to what he's already doing...
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 1:35:35 PM EST
Well,
The ROTC programs and academys are literally swamped with thousands of applicants. They are using any and all excuses to sort through the applicants to ensure they only get the best of the best. I would know, as they ran me out of the program because I had "problems with proper military precedure in regards to the official memo format." I literally used the wrong kind of black pen. And that's what they booted me for officially.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 1:37:01 PM EST
When i was enlisting i had gone to a MEPS station in LA but i moved about a month later to NY. In LA i passed the physical with flying colors. On the drive up to the MEPS in NY my recruiter was telling me about a guy up there named Dr Death. He turns away about 50% of the people he sees. She was telling me how he failed chicks who had gotten abortions etc..

Well i get up there all i was supposed to have to do was pass a weigh in and guess what i get rejected for flat feet. I go up to the guy and tell him to give my info back and that he is a cock sucker i wasnt even supposed to see him etc.. He then tells me " CALM DOWN IF YOU ACT LIKE THIS NOW HOW WOULD YOU ACT IN A WAR?" I respond i dont know but if your faggot ass has his way i wont get in. I went on to tell him that he is a shitty ass DR or a lazy POS if he cant hold a job at a hospital.

The AF reps at the meps argued with him and they sent up a package including my first passed physical and i got a waiver in about 3 weeks.

Normally i dont act like that but this moron was just supposed to be present when i got weighed and at the time i felt that the only viable career choice i had was the military.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 2:13:11 PM EST
I was turned down 3 times at meps for having metal in my bones.. finally got it all removed and got in
when I was 24.. You can get in with flat feet buy the way... hang in there your make it..
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:16:24 PM EST
If I can get a waiver for stainless steel holding my knee together, you can get a waiver for flat feet.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:45:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheLastBoyScout:
I am in the process of applying for USMA, USNA, and NROTC.

So why are you applying for USNA (Marine Corps, I assume), NROTC (Marine Corps, I assume), USMA (Army), and not Army ROTC?
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:49:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2004 3:50:12 PM EST by FREEFALLE6]
Well your waiver should get approved. I know alot of 11Bs that have flat feet and have no isssues marching/rucking.

Dont give up I had a car accident before going to basic in 88. The wreck resulted in a severe head Injury, which medically disqualified me for 10 yrs.

The only service I could join was the National Guard. Well along come Saddam Hussen and the gulf war so I transfered to Active duty and the rest is history.

I was told several times that I should move along and figure out a new path for my life , but of course I said fuck that I will be a Paratrooper!!!

The key is to not give up as we are at war and you will get in the military if you don't quit.

Im me if you have any questions, because I know Several Recruiters and MIL Doctors/PAs and should be able to get any answers you need.

Good Luck,
FREE
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 3:54:23 PM EST
You guys are missong a big point here... service academy physical admission standards and enlistment standards are very different things.

Now when I went to MEPS for me pre-commissioning physical it seemed the same as my entrance physical, and the interview with the Doc was easier once he figured out I was in the USAR and staying in the USAR and had had a USAR physicakl just 3 months before he saw it was pretty much pointless.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 4:02:24 PM EST
at least you don't have...................................ASTHMA
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 4:12:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2004 4:12:56 PM EST by Spade]
Look at it this way. Annapolis and the Point are going to get a whole bunch of applications from people who don't have any medical problems at all.

So in a couple months you'll get a nice letter saying that will be quite long winded and basically say "you're fucked, find another career". The Navy (I can't speak for West Point) will also send you a letter saying you've been rejected and that many people get in after reapplying. Ignore the second letter.

Enlisting or ROTC is different, but with the Academy it's tough.


Also, to the "you can get a waiver for anything" folks, you find me a way to get a waiver for refractive error at 10 diopters and get me into the Army, Marine Corps, or Navy in any form (enlisted, whatever), and you can have my USP .45F, my AR-180B, all of them.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 4:17:43 PM EST
Have you tried lasic?

They now alow people with Lasic vision correction to enlist. Tell me you vision (20-?) I wont promise anything, but I will at least ask for you.
FREE




Originally Posted By Spade:
Look at it this way. Annapolis and the Point are going to get a whole bunch of applications from people who don't have any medical problems at all.

So in a couple months you'll get a nice letter saying that will be quite long winded and basically say "you're fucked, find another career". The Navy (I can't speak for West Point) will also send you a letter saying you've been rejected and that many people get in after reapplying. Ignore the second letter.

Enlisting or ROTC is different, but with the Academy it's tough.


Also, to the "you can get a waiver for anything" folks, you find me a way to get a waiver for refractive error at 10 diopters and get me into the Army, Marine Corps, or Navy in any form (enlisted, whatever), and you can have my USP .45F, my AR-180B, all of them.

Link Posted: 10/3/2004 4:22:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2004 4:24:03 PM EST by Spade]

Originally Posted By FREEFALLE6:
Have you tried lasic?

They now alow people with Lasic vision correction to enlist. Tell me you vision (20-?) I wont promise anything, but I will at least ask for you.
FREE



10 diopters right eye, 11 left. Pretty sure about that, I'd have to look it up to be exact. But it's over 8.

If you get surgery, they still work it off what your vision was before you had surgery. And if you're over 8, you're fucked.

Trust me, my USP won't be going anywhere. I spent near three years navigating the wonderful world of military medical regulations.
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 7:28:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2004 7:31:28 PM EST by KA3B]
I enlisted with flat feet.
The only question the doctor asked was "Do they bother you?"

I did have to get a waiver for flat feet from NAMI before I was accepted for Aircrew School.

I also had to get a waiver for flat feet to get my OCS application processed.

As has been pointed out, most of the services have enough potential recruits.
The service school academies have more stringent requirements and may not offer waivers for certain things that a normal enlistment might consider waiverable.

Don't stop trying!! This just might be one of those never mentioned "tests" of character.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:03:18 AM EST
go throught he waiver process. it took me nearly 2 years to get in the Marine Corps. you havent really cleared MEPS till your ass is on that bus to the airport. then you start over with a clean slate.

enlist in USMC reserve,
go to college as a Marine option NROTC
become Marine officer
Make us proud



whatever you do, DO NOT join the Corps on the "split program" where you you do boot one summer, and MCT the following summer. it sounds good at first but its murder. put college off a year if you have to but do not split up boot, MCT, and your MOS training. MCT is actually harder than boot and you want to get there at that peak condition that bootcamp makes you. plus you wont get promoted because you haven had MCT and since you dont hold an MOS you will spend your drill weekends as someone elses errandboy.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:35:18 AM EST
Hell,I got in the NG,and I can't even hear in my left ear.There are some sorry folks in MEPS. Got in as a 77F POL handler(helicopters).Hear helicopter,see helicopter,now go fuel helicopter! Sky out,Bawk!
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:03:30 AM EST
Depending upon how bad your condition is it won't affect you until you are in your 30s or 40s. But then you will start to have problems related to flat feet. Have you checked Army ROTC? Sometimes you can get into it even without a scholarship.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:25:42 AM EST
If you are serious about one of the service acadamies, there is a way around things....kinda. I was a recruiter for the Air Force in the late 80's. Service academy billits are hard to come by.....requirements are tough, but there are a few more slots available to "Military Members seeking placement" in service academies. The notion is that they already have something invested in you as a service member, and the chances of you washing out are less that someone coming in from civilian life.

When you go to MEPS, and they are going to check your feet, just stand on the outsides of your feet, pulling your toes in slightly. Your feet will arch. Try it and see what I mean. Once in the military, apply for your slot in one of the service academies. No guarantees, but it's an option......

archer2
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:20:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 9:20:53 AM EST by voilsb]

Originally Posted By Spade:
10 diopters right eye, 11 left. Pretty sure about that, I'd have to look it up to be exact. But it's over 8.

If you get surgery, they still work it off what your vision was before you had surgery. And if you're over 8, you're fucked.

Trust me, my USP won't be going anywhere. I spent near three years navigating the wonderful world of military medical regulations.

Get the surgery, but research first to find a good surgeon. My lil' brother did this before taking his flight physical, and here are the results:
20/20 right eye, 20/25 left eye, no evidence of refractive surgery.

They don't even know he had the surgery done.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:36:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By TexRdnec:
at least you don't have...................................ASTHMA


That was the objection DODMERB had to me.
"Go directly to civilian life....do not pass go, do not collect ROTC scholarship".
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:36:57 AM EST
USNA has been giving a LOT of waivers even with 12,000 apps for 1200 plebe slots. I have heard of waivers for ADD, ADHD, eye problems.... I can not imagine flat feet are THAT hard to get waived. Best bet is to continue the application course, and jump through all the hoops. Playing the game is part of the (sometimes long and convoluted) process.

shooter
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:26:48 PM EST
USNA SAID I'M WAIVERABLE! OOORAH!

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:02:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheLastBoyScout:
USNA SAID I'M WAIVERABLE! OOORAH!




Congrats man, thats good to hear.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 2:41:32 PM EST
GO NAVY!
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:20:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheLastBoyScout:
USNA SAID I'M WAIVERABLE! OOORAH!




Stick with it - I read an article in the Post (IIRC) that said USNA applications were down 20% this year versus last. Waivers will follow to maintain selectivity.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:22:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By voilsb:

Originally Posted By TheLastBoyScout:
I am in the process of applying for USMA, USNA, and NROTC.

So why are you applying for USNA (Marine Corps, I assume), NROTC (Marine Corps, I assume), USMA (Army), and not Army ROTC?



And what about USAFA and AFRO(TC)? CCQ team members, PJs, SAR, etc are all Hard Core as well.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:26:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By thompsondd

Originally Posted By voilsb:

Originally Posted By TheLastBoyScout:
I am in the process of applying for USMA, USNA, and NROTC.

So why are you applying for USNA (Marine Corps, I assume), NROTC (Marine Corps, I assume), USMA (Army), and not Army ROTC?



And what about USAFA and AFRO(TC)? CCQ team members, PJs, SAR, etc are all Hard Core as well.



Not very many O billets (if any) in PJs although I think that I saw an article in the Early Bird a few months back that said that USAF was considering a opening a limited number of O slots in the PJ field IOT provide oversight and aid in procurement decisions. Probably not the greatest place to go if you want a career (as an O).
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:40:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By H46Driver:

Originally Posted By thompsondd
And what about USAFA and AFRO(TC)? CCQ team members, PJs, SAR, etc are all Hard Core as well.



Not very many O billets (if any) in PJs although I think that I saw an article in the Early Bird a few months back that said that USAF was considering a opening a limited number of O slots in the PJ field IOT provide oversight and aid in procurement decisions. Probably not the greatest place to go if you want a career (as an O).

That was my assumption. There's hardly any officer slots, especially as an O-1, in *any* SOCOM unit, whether it's PJ, SEAL, SF, Ranger, or MEU(SOC). If he wants to be an officer and play in the dirt, his best bets are with the Army or Marine Corps.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 4:54:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheLastBoyScout:
USNA SAID I'M WAIVERABLE! OOORAH!




Congrats! Now make us proud!
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