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Posted: 2/14/2006 3:21:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 3:21:53 PM EDT by yobo]
I have been very fortunate in that I always had medical insurance and never had to large sum for any medical procedure. Same for my wife. When we had our baby last year our total out of pocket expense was $5 co-pay for the first visit. We had what ladies at the office call $5 baby.

However, I know this is the exception and not the norm. I hear about people loosing everything when they have long term medical problems or emergencies. Its hard to accept the fact that a person can loose everything when they get sick.

So I ask you all, what is the solution to this problem?
Socialized medicine?
Shoot all lawyers?
Limit liability payouts in malpractice cases?

Lets hear some possible solutions.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:22:22 PM EDT
I think if people were to take care of themselves just a little bit it would eliminate much of the problem. Of course my solution is a little after the fact.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:24:06 PM EDT
Don't get sick till you are really old.....then eat a bullet before the pain and suffering starts.

Save an incredible amount of wealth and pay cash for all health care costs.

Always work at a job with good benefits.

There is no answer.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:26:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macro:

There is no answer.




So it just goes on like it is now in its crazy, out of control way?
Sooner or later it will crash and burn.

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:27:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:28:01 PM EDT
First the profit needs to be taken out of medical 'malpractice' lawsuits. So in that vein all we should have socialized legal care. All lawyers work for the govt. Starting pay is $50,000 max pay is $75,000. No % of settlements allowed. Lets see how that works and go from there.

insurance companies keep saying " costs keep going up " I want to know what cost are going up? Where is the money being spent? Follow the $$
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:29:12 PM EDT
raise sales tax to 12%
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:29:23 PM EDT
Besides tort reform?

End third party payment.

Government doesn't pay your medical bills. Employers don't pay for your insurance.

You do. You see the cost and adjust your behavior accordingly.

When someone else will pay for your car, will you drive a honda according or a humvee? A camry or a dodge viper?

It's the same thing as the increasing cost of higher education. Grants, scholarships, easy loans all have a way of making people less price conscious.

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:29:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Quit pretending health care is a right.
ealth care is a priveledge for those who have done what is required to secure it.
Don't like it?
Move to Canada.



+1.

before the .gov got into health care, doctors would come to your house, and most could afford it without insurance.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:31:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yobo:

Originally Posted By macro:

There is no answer.




So it just goes on like it is now in its crazy, out of control way?
Sooner or later it will crash and burn.




The "problem" is created by the fact that we are making radical new breakthroughs in medical technology. You can still get 1960's level care for a decent price. Everyone, naturally, wants the best care available. That costs money. Nothing in life is free.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:33:43 PM EDT
A National Health Service

Paid for by everyone....available to everyone.

Works for us...although waiting lists can be quite long for certain surgery

Taffy

Link
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:36:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
A National Health Service

Paid for by everyone....available to everyone.

Works for us...although waiting lists can be quite long for certain surgery

Taffy

Link



Only if you use a Clintonesque definition.

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:36:14 PM EDT
A big thing would be to deregulate medicene. Allow more para medical folks to do more indipendent practice. I would also do away with drug regulations.

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:37:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
A National Health Service

Paid for by everyone....available to everyone.

Works for us...although waiting lists can be quite long for certain surgery

Taffy

Link



yeah, if you don't mind dying due to waiting lists or receiving substandard care, it's a great system
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:37:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
A National Health Service

Paid for by everyone....available to everyone.

Works for us...although waiting lists can be quite long for certain surgery

Taffy

Link




Is participation mandatory or is it optional? If it is optional how many people opt out?

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:39:41 PM EDT
Shoot the people who run those motorized wheelchair medicare scams and burn their buildings to the ground.

That is a HUGE percentage of federal government medicare outlay.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:40:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Partisan:

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
A National Health Service

Paid for by everyone....available to everyone.

Works for us...although waiting lists can be quite long for certain surgery

Taffy

Link




Is participation mandatory or is it optional? If it is optional how many people opt out?





You cannot opt out...we all pay.....we all benefit. You may still have additional private health care at your own additional cost.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:41:30 PM EDT
I Was in the medical field fo 28 years(medical sales). The problem with cost is there is too much "Fat". Meaning, There is too much administration, nurses, a person for this and a person for that. The doctors need to do more of the procedures and chop out a lot of staff. Also I don't know of too many doctors that are not living the high life.......... Quite honestly, the reason I got out of the medical field was because of what Assholes most doctors are.......
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:43:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
A National Health Service

Paid for by everyone....available to everyone.

Works for us...although waiting lists can be quite long for certain surgery

Taffy

Link



yeah, if you don't mind dying due to waiting lists or receiving substandard care, it's a great system



you may make your own financial arangements to bypass waiting lists by having private medical care.

I've had 3 operations....first one I was supposed to wait 12 months for so I paid to go private and had it done 2 weeks later. The other two I had on the NHS.
At least everyone "can" have treatment albeit a two tier system. You pay, you play
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:43:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 3:51:29 PM EDT by JohnTheTexican]

Originally Posted By Partisan:
First the profit needs to be taken out of medical 'malpractice' lawsuits. So in that vein all we should have socialized legal care. All lawyers work for the govt. Starting pay is $50,000 max pay is $75,000. No % of settlements allowed. Lets see how that works and go from there.

insurance companies keep saying " costs keep going up " I want to know what cost are going up? Where is the money being spent? Follow the $$



Okay. Take malpractice out of the mix and you cut out less than 2% of total healthcare costs. Now how do you propose to deal with the other 98+%?
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:44:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:47:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnTheTexican:

Okay. Take malpractice out of the mix and you cut out less than 1% of total healthcare costs. Now how do you propose to deal with the other 99+%.



do away with government mandated paperwork and all the crap associated with HIPPA and related laws. Administrative costs are a huge sourse of overhead.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:48:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 3:51:13 PM EDT by TacticalMan]

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Quit pretending health care is a right.
ealth care is a priveledge for those who have done what is required to secure it.
Don't like it?
Move to Canada.



Another big +1!

The pace of technology is such that we can do far more to save lives and heal disease than we could even 10 years ago. But, that comes at a price. All of the new procedures and equipment cost money. For rarer conditions the number of patients available to amortize the investment is less.

The question becomes "How healthy do you want to be?" and the answer is "How much can you spend?"
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:49:02 PM EDT
As an earlier poster mentioned - follow the money. Huge chunks of it go to the drug companies. I know they have to recover research and evelopment costs, but pills that cost a fraction of a cent to produce selling for three or four dollars each? They also still seem to make a profit selling in countries with controlled costs, where ths same drugs sell for much less than in the US. The lies and misinformation about the quality of the drugs in countries such as UK, Canada, France, Germany etc are just that -- lies. if anything, many of these countries have tighter controls than the US and thus less chance of bogus or out of date drugs than in the US -- witness the flu vaccine problems last year. The US drug companies would have been more than happy to take delivery and sell that vaccine to US consumers if the UK hadn't shut down the factory.

There are also the insurance companies, which in general are blood-sucking leeches. They contribute very little value for a very handsome price. All a national health service would do would be to replace these and take the profit they make out of the price you pay.

Reasonable profits for drug companies, take insurance companies out of the loop, fix the tort system as applied to malpractice and medical care would be much, much more affordable.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:50:02 PM EDT
Stop lowering the standards for doctors who, through their incompetence, contribute to the rising cost of malpractice insurance.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:51:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:52:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnTheTexican:

Originally Posted By Partisan:
First the profit needs to be taken out of medical 'malpractice' lawsuits. So in that vein all we should have socialized legal care. All lawyers work for the govt. Starting pay is $50,000 max pay is $75,000. No % of settlements allowed. Lets see how that works and go from there.

insurance companies keep saying " costs keep going up " I want to know what cost are going up? Where is the money being spent? Follow the $$



Okay. Take malpractice out of the mix and you cut out 2% of total healthcare costs. Now how do you propose to deal with the other 98%.



John,
Were do you get malpractice is 2% ? I'm not trying to be rude but I don't think that figure is correct. Do you have any hard data to back that up?

Thanks Partisan
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:52:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Quit pretending health care is a right.
ealth care is a priveledge for those who have done what is required to secure it.
Don't like it?
Move to Canada.



You forgot the poor working class genius. This is arguably one of the most ignorant things I’ve heard in a long time
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:54:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 3:54:53 PM EDT by Gunplay]

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By yobo:

Originally Posted By macro:

There is no answer.




So it just goes on like it is now in its crazy, out of control way?
Sooner or later it will crash and burn.




The "problem" is created by the fact that we are making radical new breakthroughs in medical technology. You can still get 1960's level care for a decent price. Everyone, naturally, wants the best care available. That costs money. Nothing in life is free.



+1000

If you want quality care to stagnate and to kill innovation, by all means turn it over to .gov. We'll be real safe and healthy then.

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:54:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:

Originally Posted By Taffy223:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
A National Health Service

Paid for by everyone....available to everyone.

Works for us...although waiting lists can be quite long for certain surgery

Taffy

Link



yeah, if you don't mind dying due to waiting lists or receiving substandard care, it's a great system



you may make your own financial arangements to bypass waiting lists by having private medical care.

I've had 3 operations....first one I was supposed to wait 12 months for so I paid to go private and had it done 2 weeks later. The other two I had on the NHS.
At least everyone "can" have treatment albeit a two tier system. You pay, you play


And if you want the best treatment, or new treatments, you come to the US



America is not at the front of all medical procedures...There are also excellent medical facilities in mainland Europe that we can use. There has been much work done trying to reduce waiting lists in the UK and some of this has entailed treatment in other countries where there are little or no waiting lists.
My personal opinion which does not always go down well here is to ban private medical health care completely....forcing the poiticians to remedy the waiting lists as they would have to use them . I realy cannot see Tony Blair waiting in an Emergency and Accident unit along with everyone else
OK...so I payed to jump a waiting list...It left a bitter taste in my mouth as I'd technicaly already payed for the treatment with my NHS contributions.

Jusy my 2cents

Taffy
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:55:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
The hospital that sends you bills is likely classified as a "not for profit organization".

Great, so how did my kidney stone episode end up costing a total of 37 thousand dollars? Where'd all that money go to if it's not for profit?

I paid only 1700 bucks thanks to good insurance, fortunately, but for the amount of work done to me, I frankly can't see any SANE way to say it was worth 37 grand. Pushing the head of the lithotriptor machine into my lower back and letting it go click, click, click for a few minutes is in no way worth the 10,000 dollars that the hospital billed for, each time!

A cat scan taking ten minutes was worth 5000 bucks? Are you out of your freaking MIND?


The system is screwed.They had to charge you extra (a lot) to make up for the people who can't pay or have no insurance.... That's just the way it is....... really suck's .


CJ

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:56:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Silesius:
Stop lowering the standards for doctors who, through their incompetence, contribute to the rising cost of malpractice insurance.



Just curious, but when was the last time you past a medical licensing exam?
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:56:45 PM EDT
I oculd go in to a long ass diatribe answering all of your questions, explaining the nature of the problems and giving the solutions as I have in the past but it is worth neither my time, effort nor inclination. Know why?

Because you all get exactly the healthcare system you deserve. Why you say? Because it is what you demand.
And I am dead serious.
No offense, just reality.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:57:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
I oculd go in to a long ass diatribe answering all of your questions, explaining the nature of the problems and giving the solutions as I have in the past but it is worth neither my time, effort nor inclination. Know why?

Because you all get exactly the healthcare system you deserve. Why you say? Because it is what you demand.
And I am dead serious.
No offense, just reality.



+1
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:59:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ipsilateral_7:

Originally Posted By Silesius:
Stop lowering the standards for doctors who, through their incompetence, contribute to the rising cost of malpractice insurance.



Just curious, but when was the last time you past a medical licensing exam?

I passed my state contractors exam last year and if your a Doctor that does'nt make you more important than anyone. You live in a house that a contractor built and practice medicine in a Hospital that a contractor built........
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:01:53 PM EDT
Re-introducing the free market back into medical care would go a long way to fixing things. It's become an alien concept that people should actually PAY for their own medical care.

No one asks my advice but a mandatory deductible would be a place to start. Also gets a lot of people screaming right away too.<G>

Dennis Jenkins
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:02:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
The hospital that sends you bills is likely classified as a "not for profit organization".

Great, so how did my kidney stone episode end up costing a total of 37 thousand dollars? Where'd all that money go to if it's not for profit?

I paid only 1700 bucks thanks to good insurance, fortunately, but for the amount of work done to me, I frankly can't see any SANE way to say it was worth 37 grand. Pushing the head of the lithotriptor machine into my lower back and letting it go click, click, click for a few minutes is in no way worth the 10,000 dollars that the hospital billed for, each time!

A cat scan taking ten minutes was worth 5000 bucks? Are you out of your freaking MIND?


The system is screwed.


CJ




I had the basically the same experience. I fell off a friend's roof (2nd story) while attempting to fix some hurricane damage. I was taken to the hospital where they did a couple CT scans, took a bunch of x-rays, and kept me over night. Apart from the diagnostic testing, the only treatment I received was a morphine drip. The bill just for the hospital came to over $21,000, and that didn't even cover the radiologists who read the CT scans and x-rays. Insurance paid about $4000 and I paid a bit over $1000. The rest (i.e., obscene overcharges) was written off as a "contractual adjustment."
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:04:13 PM EDT
I typed out a long rant about why doctors in a hospital setting attempt to keep people hospitalized for as long as possible, why they perform unneeded procedures repeatedly on the same patients, and why they push terminal patients to be FULL CODES.....but I erased it because it was hard to read and you really don't care. So instead, let me give you a small sampling of what I had to say:

Ventilator-dependant patients in LTAC settings. Pulmonologists will get a person who is a DNR and would really is at the end of life and convince a family member that the patient should be intubated "for a day" to "let them rest a little." This is crap and everyone there except the family understands that.
The patient is then orally intubated on AC for a week or so, dragging it out. At several points, the pulmonologist will perform bedside bronchoscopy, which is entirely not indicated, and get paid well by Medicare for doing so.

After 2 weeks of being orally intubated, the pulmonologist will start very aggressive weaing orders, placing the patient on IMV, dropping the rate q2h, placing on CPAP withing hours, and then of course, failing to wean, back on AC.

At this point, the family will feel guilty about extubating the patient because the patient will obviously die immediately. The doctor of course gets paid well for every day of ICU monitoring and the frequent bronchoscopies.

Eventually, the patient will get a tracheostomy whicht he family will agree to because it looks so much better than the huge endotracheal tube crammed down their throat. Nice paycheck for the surgeon there.

At this point, the hospital and pulmonlogist will repeat the weeks of no weaning anf then very aggressive and meant to fail weaning for the purposes of "doing something" while eating through all the available Medicate days.

Nearing the end of Medicare coverage, the doctor will finally discuss DNR and let the patient die.

There is little to no oversight for this as the hospitals and the doctors all make their buck.

Doctors and hospitals have influential lobbies.

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:05:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By johnthreesixteen:
I passed my state contractors exam last year and if your a Doctor that does'nt make you more important than anyone. You live in a house that a contractor built and practice medicine in a Hospital that a contractor built........



contractors exam does not equate medical licensure. Now, if you have specific complaints, aire them instead of making grandiose claims that have no merit, and also note that no where did I stand up and proclaim that Physicians are the pinnacle of all that is great. But, I can assure you that standards have not been lowered for admittance into medical schools and in fact they are getting far more stringent despite the slowly decreasing application pool due to physicians telling people not to go into medicine so they won't have to put up with ingrate patients and bureaucratic bullshit hoisted on us by the government
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:05:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hylton:

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Quit pretending health care is a right.
ealth care is a priveledge for those who have done what is required to secure it.
Don't like it?
Move to Canada.



You forgot the poor working class genius. This is arguably one of the most ignorant things I’ve heard in a long time



Uh, so the poor working class is owed medical treatment? What about the people who spent billions to create the medical miracles that are keeping people alive? Should they just be working out of the kindness of their heart?

You sir are a Marxist, so like Sylvan said, feel free to move to Canada or some other such "paradise" if you think socialism is the answer because this happens to be the land of the free. Cuba probably has care for the working class too, plus it’s more sunny there.

We don't owe you shit.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:08:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Quit pretending health care is a right.
ealth care is a priveledge for those who have done what is required to secure it.
Don't like it?
Move to Canada.



Yep....that's the way it should be.
Let me add this, Registered Nurses make between 3 and 4 bucks an hour per patient and sometimes less (starting pay) and they are the ones who take care of you 24/7 in-patient.
I believe in paying someone for their skills, doctors included.
I am totally against Socialism.Socialized medicine.
I do however believe all points of care should be non-profit.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:10:11 PM EDT
My girlfriend's mom got Ankle surgery done. They charged her $500 for a drill bit. FIVE HUNDRED dollars, and she did not even get the drill bit! They kept it and probably re used it.

Did anyone see the 30 days show about living on minimum wage? They went to the doctor and he get a ace bandage for his wrist, they charged him $50 for an ace bandage you can buy at wal mart for $5.

It's bullshit that they charge you out of the ass, and no one can deny that.

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:10:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 4:11:45 PM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:12:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
The cost to the NHS of a total Hip Replacement operation is £7,000 ($12,600)

The cost of if I go 'Private' would be between £7,000 and £9,000 ($12,600-$16,200)


What would be the cost of the same proceedure in the US?


ANdy


ETA: I've had proceedures in NHS and Private Hospitals



your not even in the ball park
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:12:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ffsparky26:
A big thing would be to deregulate medicene. Allow more para medical folks to do more indipendent practice. I would also do away with drug regulations.




The FDA is partially to blame.
There is a new degree track for master's educated nurses (general practicioners)...one more year and you can be a GP. Most of the time a computer could diagnose and treat you (it has been done, a computer directed the care of an ICU somewhere parallel with the docs and did the same job), you don't need a doc for that.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:14:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Partisan:

Originally Posted By JohnTheTexican:

Originally Posted By Partisan:
First the profit needs to be taken out of medical 'malpractice' lawsuits. So in that vein all we should have socialized legal care. All lawyers work for the govt. Starting pay is $50,000 max pay is $75,000. No % of settlements allowed. Lets see how that works and go from there.

insurance companies keep saying " costs keep going up " I want to know what cost are going up? Where is the money being spent? Follow the $$



Okay. Take malpractice out of the mix and you cut out 2% of total healthcare costs. Now how do you propose to deal with the other 98%.



John,
Were do you get malpractice is 2% ? I'm not trying to be rude but I don't think that figure is correct. Do you have any hard data to back that up?

Thanks Partisan



The Congressional Budget Office (And that's a Republican Congress's CBO.)


Malpractice costs amounted to an estimated $24 billion in 2002, but that figure represents less than 2 percent of overall health care spending. Thus, even a reduction of 25 percent to 30 percent in malpractice costs would lower health care costs by only about 0.4 percent to 0.5 percent, and the likely effect on health insurance premiums would be comparably small.


There are other sources that put it at less than 1%, but I thought the CBO's figures ought to be fairly uncontroversial.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:14:17 PM EDT
Join the Army and get free medical care.

FREE
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:16:12 PM EDT

There is too much administration, nurses, a person for this and a person for that. .


Although I believe you "were in the field", If the "nurse" part your statement was thought out, you ....never mind.
We really do need to get rid of some nurses, I love waiting for my pain medicine, and I really like my unrelieved chest pain.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:17:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 4:18:13 PM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:18:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
I typed out a long rant about why doctors in a hospital setting attempt to keep people hospitalized for as long as possible, why they perform unneeded procedures repeatedly on the same patients, and why they push terminal patients to be FULL CODES.....but I erased it because it was hard to read and you really don't care. So instead, let me give you a small sampling of what I had to say:

Ventilator-dependant patients in LTAC settings. Pulmonologists will get a person who is a DNR and would really is at the end of life and convince a family member that the patient should be intubated "for a day" to "let them rest a little." This is crap and everyone there except the family understands that.
The patient is then orally intubated on AC for a week or so, dragging it out. At several points, the pulmonologist will perform bedside bronchoscopy, which is entirely not indicated, and get paid well by Medicare for doing so.

After 2 weeks of being orally intubated, the pulmonologist will start very aggressive weaing orders, placing the patient on IMV, dropping the rate q2h, placing on CPAP withing hours, and then of course, failing to wean, back on AC.

At this point, the family will feel guilty about extubating the patient because the patient will obviously die immediately. The doctor of course gets paid well for every day of ICU monitoring and the frequent bronchoscopies.

Eventually, the patient will get a tracheostomy whicht he family will agree to because it looks so much better than the huge endotracheal tube crammed down their throat. Nice paycheck for the surgeon there.

At this point, the hospital and pulmonlogist will repeat the weeks of no weaning anf then very aggressive and meant to fail weaning for the purposes of "doing something" while eating through all the available Medicate days.

Nearing the end of Medicare coverage, the doctor will finally discuss DNR and let the patient die.

There is little to no oversight for this as the hospitals and the doctors all make their buck.

Doctors and hospitals have influential lobbies.





So damn true.

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:21:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taffy223:
You cannot opt out...we all pay.....we all benefit.


No offense, Taffy, but that statement makes me sick (pun intended). Socialized medicine goes against every fiber of my being.
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