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Posted: 10/16/2008 8:32:33 AM EST
Biden questions 'notion of this guy Joe the plumber'
Posted: 01:15 PM ET

From CNN Associate Editor Rebecca Sinderbrand

(CNN) — Joe Biden sounded skeptical of “Joe the Plumber” Wurzelbacher’s working-class credentials Thursday.

“You notice John [McCain] continues to cling to the notion of this guy Joe the plumber,” Biden said on NBC’s Today show. “I don't have any Joe the plumbers in my neighborhood that make $250,000 a year that are worried.”

Watch: 'Joe the plumber' on debate

“The Joe the plumbers in my neighborhood, the Joe the cops in my neighborhood, the Joe the grocery store owners in my neighborhood — they make, like 98 percent of the small businesses, less than $250,000 a year,” said the Democratic VP nominee. “And they’re going to do very well under us, and they’re going to be in real tough shape under John McCain.”

McCain cited Wurzelbacher, who questioned Obama about his tax plan during a recent Ohio campaign swing, as someone would face higher taxes under the Democrat’s economic proposals.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the mean annual wage for plumbers, pipefitters and steamfitters in the United States in 2007 was $47,350.

politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/16/biden-questions-notion-of-this-guy-joe-the-plumber/

Someone tell the intern that pulled up that number from the BLS that the company Joe wants to buy would have income of more than $250,000/yr, before expenses, wages, etc. That is what the issue is.

We really can't win in this media environment. Get your KY ready, gents.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:35:12 AM EST
Zillow data from neighboring houses of the Biden hovel would likely show the improbability of someone making $50K living there.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:36:24 AM EST
Apparently Joe isn't even a licensed plumber


Joe the Plumber is not exactly a plumber and he's "not even close" to making the kind of money that would result in higher taxes from Democrat Barack Obama's proposals.


voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/16/joe_the_plumber_not_a_licensed.html
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:37:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By KUpolo:
Apparently Joe isn't even a licensed plumber www.m3forum.net/m3forum/images/smilies/shifty.gif


Joe the Plumber is not exactly a plumber and he's "not even close" to making the kind of money that would result in higher taxes from Democrat Barack Obama's proposals.


voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/16/joe_the_plumber_not_a_licensed.html


go back to DU
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:38:03 AM EST
DU is reporting that Joe the Plumber is related to Charles Keating.



No joke.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:38:54 AM EST

"Socialism is patriotic." ~ POS Joe Biden


From the same scum bag mother fucker that co-authored the '94 AWB.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:40:08 AM EST
joe has bitch slapped the obama campaign! they are worried.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:40:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By 2_of_5:
DU is reporting that Joe the Plumber is related to Charles Keating.



No joke.


LOL those guys are as crazy as some folks on this board.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:40:30 AM EST
The most popular plumbing companies in my area charge $100/hr for their work.

I can see $250k in income from plumbers easily.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:41:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2008 8:43:03 AM EST by motown_steve]

Originally Posted By badfish274:

We really can't win in this media environment. Get your KY ready, gents.


I don't know, I think that attacking an average guy who asked a simple question is going to backfire with all of the other average guys out there. He didn't ask Obama to come to his neighborhood. He didn't ask for the media to descend on him like a flock of seagulls. He didn't ask to become a talking point. He's just a regular guy that has a chance to buy a business and is worried about his taxes.

Tearing him apart is going to be a bad move. The guy works hard and is trying to build a better life but is worried about his taxes. Who isn't? Having Joe attack the guy is a blunder. Having the media and Obama's surrogates attack him is going to turn people off (I hope).

It definitely shows what we are in for if Obama is elected though. NEVER question "The One"!!

You're right though, the people who control the picture and "information" are pulling out all the stops to get The One elected and the media environment is sickening to say the least.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:41:35 AM EST
Joe is the rule, not the exception.

Obamas campaign knows this and will downplay it as much as they can.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:42:33 AM EST

Originally Posted By KUpolo:
Apparently Joe isn't even a licensed plumber www.m3forum.net/m3forum/images/smilies/shifty.gif


Joe the Plumber is not exactly a plumber and he's "not even close" to making the kind of money that would result in higher taxes from Democrat Barack Obama's proposals.


voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/16/joe_the_plumber_not_a_licensed.html


Let me spell this out for you, very simply. First, according to your article, he doesn't have to be licensed. Learn to read.

Second, he wants to buy a business that makes over 250k per year. That puts the business within Obama's tax bracket to get taxed higher. That is the issue. Not how much he makes now, but how much his business would be taxed under Obama. Learn to pay attention.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:43:46 AM EST
Look for this to backfire. Biden and Obama attacking the credibility of a single man is going to make them look petty.

From what I know though Joe makes the $250K a year as the owner, not just a regular plumber.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:44:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By gene5:
joe has bitch slapped the obama campaign! they are worried.


This. And they SHOULD be! The people have heard Joe. And I don't think they are in any mood to see him violated and broken down. The media will because they have to protect the annointed one and the BHO campain will try and dig dirt on him. But the message resonates with too many so screw em.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:44:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2008 8:44:57 AM EST by motown_steve]

Originally Posted By badfish274:

Originally Posted By KUpolo:
Apparently Joe isn't even a licensed plumber www.m3forum.net/m3forum/images/smilies/shifty.gif


Joe the Plumber is not exactly a plumber and he's "not even close" to making the kind of money that would result in higher taxes from Democrat Barack Obama's proposals.


voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/16/joe_the_plumber_not_a_licensed.html


Let me spell this out for you, very simply. First, according to your article, he doesn't have to be licensed. Learn to read.

Second, he wants to buy a business that makes over 250k per year. That puts the business within Obama's tax bracket to get taxed higher. That is the issue. Not how much he makes now, but how much his business would be taxed under Obama. Learn to pay attention.


The issue is whatever the media decides it is. Joe the Plumber questioned The One and he must pay.

I just hope that America is watching with open eyes.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:46:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By KUpolo:
Apparently Joe isn't even a licensed plumber www.m3forum.net/m3forum/images/smilies/shifty.gif


Joe the Plumber is not exactly a plumber and he's "not even close" to making the kind of money that would result in higher taxes from Democrat Barack Obama's proposals.


voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/16/joe_the_plumber_not_a_licensed.html


You are pathetic.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:48:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By KUpolo:

Originally Posted By 2_of_5:
DU is reporting that Joe the Plumber is related to Charles Keating.



No joke.


LOL those guys are as crazy as some folks on this board.


Sounds like you would know.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:49:53 AM EST
FUCK BIDEN!
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:50:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By crurifragium:
Zillow data from neighboring houses of the Biden hovel would likely show the improbability of someone making $50K living there.


another real estate pro!

says hi.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:50:10 AM EST

“You notice John [McCain] continues to cling to the notion of this guy Joe the plumber,” Biden said on NBC’s Today show. “I don't have any Joe the plumbers in my neighborhood that make $250,000 a year that are worried.”


Do you have ANY plumbers in your neighborhood, Joe?

Link Posted: 10/16/2008 8:55:48 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:00:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By MAT-49:

Originally Posted By crurifragium:
Zillow data from neighboring houses of the Biden hovel would likely show the improbability of someone making $50K living there.


another real estate pro!

says hi.


Sorry-not in the real estate biz, just know about the website. Can you help us out with the average assessed values of houses within a 1 mile radius of the primary Biden residence and average annual property tax bill?
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:09:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2008 9:13:44 AM EST by mforgerer]
I am a plumber and run the family plumbing company with my father.

We have 4 plumbers that work for us, and those guys are like family.

I have a secretary/dispatcher.

Thats 7 of us. Last year sale were about 730,000. Well over the 250,000 threshold. I do not make 250,000 a year personally, neither does my father. We both make a living and we realize that we will never be rich. THere are alot of weeks where our employees bring home more than us with over theirovertime. My work truck is a Tacoma pickup, and its also my family car. A couple of weeks ago dad splurged and got a 2000 VW Passat for a personal car.

The only one with a license is my father. The rest of us are journeyman or apprentices. Unlesyou plan on starting your own company, a masters is not required or even suggested. The license is so that you can take out permits. You have to be an apprentice for (4) years before you can take your journeyman exam. You need to be a journeyman for (3) years befor you can take your masters. In NY this all is county to county though. Most counties surrounding us do not require a license. I am unsure of Ohio regulations where "Joe" is.


We charge $83 and hour for what we do and I can assure you that there is not a very big profit marging built into that number. It is what the market will bear.

The thought of contributing one dime more in taxes makes my blood boil. We bust our asses for what we make and most of what we make gets reinvested into the company.

Here's the irony of the situation. I could create jobs right now. I need (2) plumbers that are at least worth the space that they take up.

I have hired (6) "plumbers" (I use that loosely) since this spring looking to get someone with some skill, or at least a willingness to learn - they cant be found. The younger guys dont want to get dirty, or think that they should be paid the same as a guy with 15 years experience. The others dont even know that they dont know.

My .02 and its worth exactly what you paid for it.

Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:17:05 AM EST
The McCain campaign should also be playing up BHO's, "Spread the wealth" comment. Of course, all those blinded by the light of The One would be willing to look past the fact the guy is a flaming commie.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:17:46 AM EST
Biden is a tool. Does he talk with the plumbers down at his favorite restaurant when visiting the serfs? You know, the place that has been closed for 22 years.

Joe the plumber called Obama on the carpet for his socialist tax plans. They will tear into him for not being with the plan. Big kudos for Joe, if I was in his area, he would get all my plumbing work.



Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:26:30 AM EST
Joe the Plumber is more popular than Joe the Senator. Imagine that.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:32:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By winchester87:
The McCain campaign should also be playing up BHO's, "Spread the wealth" comment. Of course, all those blinded by the light of The One would be willing to look past the fact the guy is a flaming commie.


The biggest problem seems to be that those blinded by the light know that he's a commie, and are fine with it, because they are commies too.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:34:19 AM EST
Where'd the 98% number come from to represent a small busness making under $250k?
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:34:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2008 9:51:45 AM EST by toddlerp]
.. the number one job facing the middle class... happens to be a 3 letter word: JOBS.

10/16/08 Video

Biden 10/16/08

Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:39:09 AM EST
Joe the plumber is not a limosine liberal like Joe the senator. That's the difference.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:42:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By KUpolo:
Apparently Joe isn't even a licensed plumber www.m3forum.net/m3forum/images/smilies/shifty.gif


Joe the Plumber is not exactly a plumber and he's "not even close" to making the kind of money that would result in higher taxes from Democrat Barack Obama's proposals.


voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/16/joe_the_plumber_not_a_licensed.html


Hum, nice deflection. He never claimed to be a licensed plumber. He wished to buy a plumbing business and hire plumbers which would put him in the 250K range.

Yeah, go back to DU. Nice try though.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:47:26 AM EST

Originally Posted By FivespeedF150:

Originally Posted By winchester87:
The McCain campaign should also be playing up BHO's, "Spread the wealth" comment. Of course, all those blinded by the light of The One would be willing to look past the fact the guy is a flaming commie.


The biggest problem seems to be that those blinded by the light know that he's a commie, and are fine with it, because they are commies too.


That is my only fear. The young are liberal, the old are conservative. When the life expectancy stretches the former into the range of the average voter the scales will tip.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:47:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By mforgerer:
I am a plumber and run the family plumbing company with my father.

We have 4 plumbers that work for us, and those guys are like family.

I have a secretary/dispatcher.

Thats 7 of us. Last year sale were about 730,000. Well over the 250,000 threshold. I do not make 250,000 a year personally, neither does my father. We both make a living and we realize that we will never be rich. THere are alot of weeks where our employees bring home more than us with over theirovertime. My work truck is a Tacoma pickup, and its also my family car. A couple of weeks ago dad splurged and got a 2000 VW Passat for a personal car.

The only one with a license is my father. The rest of us are journeyman or apprentices. Unlesyou plan on starting your own company, a masters is not required or even suggested. The license is so that you can take out permits. You have to be an apprentice for (4) years before you can take your journeyman exam. You need to be a journeyman for (3) years befor you can take your masters. In NY this all is county to county though. Most counties surrounding us do not require a license. I am unsure of Ohio regulations where "Joe" is.


We charge $83 and hour for what we do and I can assure you that there is not a very big profit marging built into that number. It is what the market will bear.

The thought of contributing one dime more in taxes makes my blood boil. We bust our asses for what we make and most of what we make gets reinvested into the company.

Here's the irony of the situation. I could create jobs right now. I need (2) plumbers that are at least worth the space that they take up.

I have hired (6) "plumbers" (I use that loosely) since this spring looking to get someone with some skill, or at least a willingness to learn - they cant be found. The younger guys dont want to get dirty, or think that they should be paid the same as a guy with 15 years experience. The others dont even know that they dont know.

My .02 and its worth exactly what you paid for it.




Email your story out to people you know. Send it everywhere!

If you have a small business with several employees and you don't make AT LEAST $200K, you aren't doing very well.

Barack's $250K floor shows just how out of touch he and Biden really are....OR they simply could care less about small business and it's just about "Spreading the wealth".

Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:48:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By KUpolo:
Apparently Joe isn't even a licensed plumber www.m3forum.net/m3forum/images/smilies/shifty.gif


Joe the Plumber is not exactly a plumber and he's "not even close" to making the kind of money that would result in higher taxes from Democrat Barack Obama's proposals.


voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/16/joe_the_plumber_not_a_licensed.html


Don't you get tired of trolling?

Go away. It'll be so nice on the 5th when your account suddenly stops posting.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:51:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By badfish274:

We really can't win in this media environment. Get your KY ready, gents.


I don't know, I think that attacking an average guy who asked a simple question is going to backfire with all of the other average guys out there. He didn't ask Obama to come to his neighborhood. He didn't ask for the media to descend on him like a flock of seagulls. He didn't ask to become a talking point. He's just a regular guy that has a chance to buy a business and is worried about his taxes.

Tearing him apart is going to be a bad move. The guy works hard and is trying to build a better life but is worried about his taxes. Who isn't? Having Joe attack the guy is a blunder. Having the media and Obama's surrogates attack him is going to turn people off (I hope).

It definitely shows what we are in for if Obama is elected though. NEVER question "The One"!!

You're right though, the people who control the picture and "information" are pulling out all the stops to get The One elected and the media environment is sickening to say the least.


Yup, all he did was take an opportunity to ask about a financial concern he had as it related to Obama's tax plan and now the media will stop at nothing to destroy this guy.

Nice people huh?

Link Posted: 10/16/2008 9:56:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By toddlerp:
.. the number one job facing the middle class... happens to be a 3 letter word: JOBS.

10/16/08 Video

Biden 10/16/08




That's four.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 10:00:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By KUpolo:
Apparently Joe isn't even a licensed plumber www.m3forum.net/m3forum/images/smilies/shifty.gif


Joe the Plumber is not exactly a plumber and he's "not even close" to making the kind of money that would result in higher taxes from Democrat Barack Obama's proposals.


voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/16/joe_the_plumber_not_a_licensed.html

And apparently you're a board parasite, it's a wash.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 10:18:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By winchester87:
The McCain campaign should also be playing up BHO's, "Spread the wealth" comment. Of course, all those blinded by the light of The One would be willing to look past the fact the guy is a flaming commie.


I was just about to post something similar to this. The scariest part about the whole conversation with Joe the Plumber was "spread the wealth". That freaked me the fuck out.


Also, as for the taxing issue, is it being discussed whether the current tax CUTS being introduced are tax INCREASES, or does O consider removing the tax breaks as allowing the tax rate to "equalize" or something.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 10:20:23 AM EST
Don't tell me, he said it. The video is linked in my original post.


Originally Posted By Primos:

Originally Posted By toddlerp:
.. the number one job facing the middle class... happens to be a 3 letter word: JOBS.

10/16/08 Video

Biden 10/16/08




That's four.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 10:22:07 AM EST
I love it.

Democrats can make up stories and use them during debates (Remember Al Gore and the woman that couldn't afford her medicine)

But when some person asks a legitimate question - IT IS FAKE!!
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 10:26:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By 69firebirdconv:

Originally Posted By winchester87:
The McCain campaign should also be playing up BHO's, "Spread the wealth" comment. Of course, all those blinded by the light of The One would be willing to look past the fact the guy is a flaming commie.


I was just about to post something similar to this. The scariest part about the whole conversation with Joe the Plumber was "spread the wealth". That freaked me the fuck out.


Also, as for the taxing issue, is it being discussed whether the current tax CUTS being introduced are tax INCREASES, or does O consider removing the tax breaks as allowing the tax rate to "equalize" or something.


It would be great to do a jibjab style animated style advertisement (like the Guiness commercials (brilliant!)) regarding this issue. BHO can say "spread the wealth" and in the audience Marx, Lenin, and Mao can applaud and give him "huzzahs".
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 10:27:54 AM EST
Obango had his own fictitious characters last night. I hate those made up stories.

It fucking sickens me how these elite fucks belittle a US citizens so easily, with the same breath, talks about what they will do 'for' the American people.




Originally Posted By h3smith:
I love it.

Democrats can make up stories and use them during debates (Remember Al Gore and the woman that couldn't afford her medicine)

But when some person asks a legitimate question - IT IS FAKE!!
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 10:31:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By KUpolo:
Apparently Joe isn't even a licensed plumber www.m3forum.net/m3forum/images/smilies/shifty.gif


Joe the Plumber is not exactly a plumber and he's "not even close" to making the kind of money that would result in higher taxes from Democrat Barack Obama's proposals.


voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/16/joe_the_plumber_not_a_licensed.html


I worked for a guy remodeling homes that wasn't a licensed anything. I guess he didn't pay my salary or have a business. Only those with government papers actually do work.


It's getting hard to see you as anything but a DU tool.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 10:31:40 AM EST
How many people on this board could be "Joe"? Lots...

I could be Joe. (I'm not...)

But the core of the issue harkens right back to Reagan who said the scaries thing someone can say is:

"I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help..."

Let's see what Barack said:

"We're gonna spead the wealth around a bit..."

Each and every person I have spoken with at work said: He's talking about my money, not just Joe's.

I think he may have made up quite a few people's minds in that brief span of seconds.

The October surprise might have come from Obama himself...

Link Posted: 10/16/2008 10:59:19 AM EST

Originally Posted By Acheron:
How many people on this board could be "Joe"? Lots...

I could be Joe. (I'm not...)

But the core of the issue harkens right back to Reagan who said the scaries thing someone can say is:

"I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help..."

Let's see what Barack said:

"We're gonna spead the wealth around a bit..."

Each and every person I have spoken with at work said: He's talking about my money, not just Joe's.

I think he may have made up quite a few people's minds in that brief span of seconds.

The October surprise might have come from Obama himself...



This is why the WHOLE conversation with Joe is important. Not really the total tax implication. People in the US accept that they will be taxed. However, where the money goes is of pretty great concern. To learn that a Presidential Candidate intends to take others hard earned money and "spread it around" to others that, arguably, won't help themselves can be pretty sickening. At least I hope.
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:10:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By mforgerer:
I am a plumber and run the family plumbing company with my father.

We have 4 plumbers that work for us, and those guys are like family.

I have a secretary/dispatcher.

Thats 7 of us. Last year sale were about 730,000. Well over the 250,000 threshold. I do not make 250,000 a year personally, neither does my father. We both make a living and we realize that we will never be rich. THere are alot of weeks where our employees bring home more than us with over theirovertime. My work truck is a Tacoma pickup, and its also my family car. A couple of weeks ago dad splurged and got a 2000 VW Passat for a personal car.

The only one with a license is my father. The rest of us are journeyman or apprentices. Unlesyou plan on starting your own company, a masters is not required or even suggested. The license is so that you can take out permits. You have to be an apprentice for (4) years before you can take your journeyman exam. You need to be a journeyman for (3) years befor you can take your masters. In NY this all is county to county though. Most counties surrounding us do not require a license. I am unsure of Ohio regulations where "Joe" is.


We charge $83 and hour for what we do and I can assure you that there is not a very big profit marging built into that number. It is what the market will bear.

The thought of contributing one dime more in taxes makes my blood boil. We bust our asses for what we make and most of what we make gets reinvested into the company.

Here's the irony of the situation. I could create jobs right now. I need (2) plumbers that are at least worth the space that they take up.

I have hired (6) "plumbers" (I use that loosely) since this spring looking to get someone with some skill, or at least a willingness to learn - they cant be found. The younger guys dont want to get dirty, or think that they should be paid the same as a guy with 15 years experience. The others dont even know that they dont know.

My .02 and its worth exactly what you paid for it.



Amen brother...
Link Posted: 10/16/2008 11:22:59 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/16/2008 11:29:25 AM EST by garr]
The Left Knows that "Joe the Plumber"
Is the Obaminations "Willie Horton"

The more they attack "Joe the Plumber" The more votes they will sent to McCain!
They realise this, But they are so programmed to protect the Obamination they cannot stop themselves!

This may have been Obaminations Big blunder, Talking down to a working man in public & on tape! (Not behind closed doors like the "Clinging to guns & religion comment")
I enjoy nothing more than watching a leftist stammer & sweat, Wait until later this week when the polls start to show McCain taking the lead!
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